© Copyright 1995 thru 2008 - The Mustang Works™. All Rights Reserved.
MustangWorks.com is designed and hosted by Aero3 Media.
MustangWorks.com is designed and hosted by Aero3 Media.
06-12-2001, 01:43 AM | #1 |
I need 110mph Trap Speed!
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: So, CA
Posts: 4,315
|
Lying Supra
Well I talk to this guy on occasion on AOL that lives near me with a TT Supra. I asked him how much HP he was pushing today, he says 713. I say holy **** RW? he said nah, 645 at the RW on 92 octane. So I asked him when he wants to race. He said its a show car and he never runs it.
I asked him what he did to it he said, Garret something Twin Turbo setup at 25psi. So I asked him what mph it runs. He goes "Oh you ment to say what trap speed" I said yeah whatever. He said 119. I laughed and said my car can trap that on NOS, and it has nothing near 645rwhp. He said, yeah, but your car is light mine is almost 3300lbs with me in it. I told him come out to bakersfield and I'll race you with my little 300rwhp 302 + a 150shot of nos. So he tells me he needs to get nos, because his car has bad low end turbo lag. A 645rwhp car is slow on the lowend? You can't even spray nos at low rpms? Then I mentioned how I got beat by a viper, he proceeds to laugh at me, and say how ******* slow vipers are they are pathetic. Blah blah... Then I challenge him to race again he claims he has to work all weekend. So he finally just stops responding to my IM's. What a loser! I have to cut and paste some quotes from his AOL profile though... "Living life 1/4 at a time" -someone that doesnt race might I add "its turbo charged" "working on cars" "speedracersupra" ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows. 12.55@107mph 50-175 Nitrous Works WET Kit just added. |
06-12-2001, 04:53 AM | #2 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: sanantonio, Tx, usa
Posts: 1,407
|
Dont go from a roll, and you should spank him off the line from a stop, but 600+ hp should make up for the turbo lag, i think you will kill him with nos, i consider TT's a power adder, so your nos should be fair.
unless he runs 10's which i doubt, then it'll be close. |
06-12-2001, 08:33 AM | #3 |
Dirk Diggler
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: SLOATSBURG, NY
Posts: 1,931
|
yea sky i dont doubt that supras out that hp but they dont dont a 645hp all motor msuatng would kill a 645hp supra cuz the mustang(or anyother all motor car)is making the power quicker and has a way better power curve..
supras even in mostley stock form will kill headed, cammed, intaked etc. mustangs from a roll(60+mph) now weather or not this guy is lieing is another storey and yes the supra bottom end can handle upwards of 800+hp but at that power levals most people will have converted to a big single turbo setup instead of 2 lil ones ------------------ 1987 black notch(ex 4 banger) DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one.. AIM=onesillynotch |
06-12-2001, 08:47 AM | #4 |
RICE taste like Chicken
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 687
|
What a liar...645 rwhp in a 3300 lb car would get about 135 traps.
BS ALERT!!!!!!BS ALERT!!!!!! you should find out where he lives and scare the shiznit outta him. ------------------ Dustin Saleenized 89 GT,428 rwhp,TFS Street Heat Intake,TFS TW Heads,TFS #2 cam,BD-11A 9 psi,FRPP 1.6 rr's,BBK 70mm TB,Pro-M 75mm Bullet,MSD 6BTM, FMS 9mm wires,BBK longtubes,BBK Short H-pipe,American Thunder cat back,3.55's 12.3@119 |
06-12-2001, 11:12 AM | #5 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Ok let me enlighten you. I am sure you know how turbo's on cars work. So the bigger the turbo is the more top end power you will have, thus making all your horse power near red line. The turbo lag for this huge turbo's can be crazy. It could take as much a 5,000 rpm to gte boost up to the max of 25 psi or whatever. My next door neighbor owns a 95 Talon turbo running 18 psi with a competely built engine. Yet I can get him off the line all day. But once his rpm's build up it is over. Check out this link to this Supra being dynoed. http://www.teamrmotorsports.com/supra_dyno_874rwhp[1].mpeg
------------------ 89' 5.0 GT Convertible Mustang and a 69' Mustang Mach 1 Fastback. If you want to know the rest, buy the rights. AOL name: Woodnutz351 |
06-12-2001, 01:24 PM | #6 |
The Instigator
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: So Cal and Houston
Posts: 764
|
Well, if he does infact have a Garrett twin turbo upgrade(2350), he can in fact have 645whp. There is a Garrett TT upgrade that can get over 1,000whp, but I forgot what turbos those are. The fact that it is a twin set-up means that there is minimal lag. 25psi should be reached by 3,500 rpms(with 2350 ball bearing turbos). With that much hp, he should be able to run a very traction limited 11.xx at over 120 on street tires in full street trim. I think he is full of it. If his claims are correct he shouldn't back down from a race that he should easily win. I think he is reading about someone elses set-up that he wants to do to his car. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a NA Supra.
------------------ 90 Honda CRX aka Project Mongoose Estimated Completion: ON STANDBY 84 Toyota Supra: Japanese 6mge installed within two weeks..... High flow cat, two chamber flowmaster, custom 2.5" piping, msd 8.5mm wires. Will have boost before 2002. Have HKS turbo manifold for it..... |
06-12-2001, 03:43 PM | #7 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Walker, MI, USA
Posts: 1,202
|
My friend raced a real one (Garrett twin) ON a VERY Busy road. Form a stop we took about a car on him in frist and then he was gone I me very fast he smoked though 4 gears!!!!!! I was just after a car show. I would say it was the fastest car I have seen on the road.
|
06-13-2001, 12:56 AM | #8 |
I need 110mph Trap Speed!
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: So, CA
Posts: 4,315
|
I think hes talkin about someone elses combo too. 600+rwhp in 3300lbs is gonna go a lot more than 119mph.
Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows. 12.55@107mph 50-175 Nitrous Works WET Kit just added. |
06-13-2001, 07:50 AM | #9 |
or '331 LX Eric'
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 2,142
|
Another vote for an N/A Supra. This guy has probably seen/heard about the Garrett (sp?) twin turbo system and figures he will purchase it, bolt it on in a couple hours, and then magically have 645 rwhp.
I can tell you this, if I had a 645 RWHP twin turbo Supra - I would not be backing down from many races! Try to get him to race, Sky! I want to know what happens...keep us updated. E ------------------ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 38,000 miles 13.17 @ 106.14 mph w/ 2.138 60' |
06-14-2001, 01:00 AM | #10 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: sanantonio, Tx, usa
Posts: 1,407
|
I would up the nos t0 175 and race his azz, imagine what an incon turbo stang would do to a supra? it would kill, but we all know that
|
06-15-2001, 03:15 PM | #11 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: IL
Posts: 2
|
Ok, this guy was probably talkin smack.
First off, there are only a couple of aftermarket twin turbo setups for sale for the supra (HKS) As for this guys trap, I can run that with BPU (basic performance upgrades)and click off a 12.0 to 12.2 As for the twin setup vs the single turbo, someone made a comment about twins having less lag then a single, it really depends, but in most cases the twins have way more lag then a nice sized single I think you hit the nail on the head Eric. So many people bench race and read about mods and then talk as if they had them. With that much horse, I wouldn't be backin' down to anything! ------------------ chris -94 Supra TT/6sp BPU -99 GS-T |
06-17-2001, 12:16 AM | #12 |
Huh? Whatcha said?
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 1,073
|
This guy has 645rwhp Supra like I have a McLaren F1 that I built in my spare time. Not gonna happen!
Anyway, Sky, when are you gonna get some new video shots of your car up? Later. ------------------ The Black Mamba 11.2@124 1994 Cobra |
06-17-2001, 02:03 PM | #13 |
I need 110mph Trap Speed!
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: So, CA
Posts: 4,315
|
Soon I hope, This friday Im going to the track so it should be then!
Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows. 12.55@107mph 50-175 Nitrous Works WET Kit just added. |
06-17-2001, 11:55 PM | #14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 176
|
Skyler,
Nice to see were in the same area. Im in Ventura off the 33 about 7 miles from you. I think your TT guy talks alot. Supra TT's are fast cars but talk is slow. If you go to www.tweak3d.net/videos/videos2.shtml you will find a TT supra on the dyno that tested with over 780+hp, damn near came off the dyno! Im sure your IM buddie saw that and is a wanna be. If you do run him, whoooopppp his frickin *** just for the point! See ya, Brian |
06-17-2001, 11:59 PM | #15 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 176
|
By the way skyler,
Is your car White? There is a bad *** one roaming around here sometimes. Your profile has an error, so i cant see it. Just curious. |
06-18-2001, 04:09 AM | #16 |
I need 110mph Trap Speed!
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: So, CA
Posts: 4,315
|
Mines Red. So you live in Ventura? What kinda stang you got? You should come with us to the track this friday out to Bakerfield if you can make it. If not we should hook up and cruise out to the street races some weekend. Nice to see someone else local.
Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows. 12.55@107mph 50-175 Nitrous Works WET Kit just added. |
06-20-2001, 05:20 PM | #17 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 176
|
Skyler,
Whats up man! Nice car you got there. Dont think ive seen it around town. We need to hook up sometime. Unfortunatly my car couldnt keep the e.t times that you have being that its a six. The best run i ever had was a 13.96@104 with the bottle. The old engine was a moderatly beefed 95, but droped a valve in the number three cylinder so i replaced it with a new six out of a 97. The new motor only has 26k on it now with a few mods. I havent run it yet, but am assuming i should pull at least a mid 14. Anyway Skyler, you can see it at: www.extremestangs.com You can e-mail there as well, talk to you soon and sorry that i got to this post so late. Deffinately want to go to the track sometime. |
06-22-2001, 09:29 AM | #18 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: columbia sc
Posts: 1
|
This is the real numbers. 94 twin turbo(stock turbos w/boost control) with very mild upgrades put 401 hp to the Rw. At Rockingham in March it ran a 12.04 at 124mph and spun trough 1st and most of 2nd on nitto's. If anyone was at Rockingham for the Import event will testify to this. The car is Red with "Eastside motorsports" on the side of it. I own a 99 cobra with some upgrades and not only have I raced the Supra and lost but I've driven it and felt the cool power of turbos. If you do not believe this and want proof then maybe we can set a little something up. Check out www.teamrush.net and see the "Fastest and Most Furious"
|
06-23-2001, 04:16 PM | #19 |
I need 110mph Trap Speed!
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: So, CA
Posts: 4,315
|
Damn gettin a 104mph out of a 6banger even with the bottle is good. You'd spank a lot of V8's up here if you ever wanna race.
Anyways, check out this long convo I had w/ the supra idiot today... LSkymanl: see fast and the furious yet Speedracersupra: yes Speedracersupra: i was there last night Speedracersupra: at a supra meet LSkymanl: yeah I saw it last night too Speedracersupra: i was with Speedracersupra: 40 supras LSkymanl: what theater Speedracersupra: 1 rx7 Speedracersupra: 10 3000gt Speedracersupra: 2 is300 LSkymanl: thats a lot of cars LSkymanl: it was a pretty damn good movie LSkymanl: I mean some things were pretty unrealistic, but hey its a movie Speedracersupra: our car Speedracersupra: was in it man Speedracersupra: ha ha Speedracersupra: thats why we had LSkymanl: yeah I know Speedracersupra: that supra Speedracersupra: was fucked LSkymanl: the only real cars in that movie was the rx7 supra and dodge Speedracersupra: up when they brought it Speedracersupra: dodge what? Speedracersupra: that ugly old thing? LSkymanl: yeah LSkymanl: the charger Speedracersupra: eww Speedracersupra: they skyline Speedracersupra: u didnt even see it? Speedracersupra: they showed it all kinds Speedracersupra: the silvia Speedracersupra: dude u dont know jap cars LSkymanl: no I dont Speedracersupra: omg Speedracersupra: the skyline LSkymanl: when are we gonna race tho Speedracersupra: never LSkymanl: yeah, ive heard of those Speedracersupra: it was Speedracersupra: the only one that was right had drive Speedracersupra: that tough guy Speedracersupra: g/f Speedracersupra: had a turbo silvia LSkymanl: oh LSkymanl: Hmm, I dont know what those are Speedracersupra: lol Speedracersupra: thats why Speedracersupra: u doint know man Speedracersupra: supercharged maxima LSkymanl: I never saw a maxima LSkymanl: or under the hood of one Speedracersupra: dude Speedracersupra: the supercharged maxma has 300 hp LSkymanl: it doesnt come factory supercharged Speedracersupra: so Speedracersupra: how about a solara supercharged Speedracersupra: 280 Speedracersupra: stock Speedracersupra: from dealer LSkymanl: they solaras blown from the factory now? Speedracersupra: yes LSkymanl: didnt know that Speedracersupra: they come supercharged Speedracersupra: if u want them LSkymanl: so you got 700hp, 300's nothin Speedracersupra: 700? Speedracersupra: where did u get that #? Speedracersupra: i got 500 LSkymanl: from you Speedracersupra: i will have 700 Speedracersupra: when im done Speedracersupra: with my turbo upgrade LSkymanl: last time u told me u dynoed it LSkymanl: in LV LSkymanl: 600 something at the rear wheels Speedracersupra: which one? Speedracersupra: i got 2 supras Speedracersupra: i got a 93 and a 94 LSkymanl: what do t hey both have LSkymanl: if uve dynoed them or run em at the track Speedracersupra: i dont want to run u dude Speedracersupra: give it up Speedracersupra: i dont run domestics LSkymanl: whys that Speedracersupra: just dont Speedracersupra: i run Speedracersupra: silvias Speedracersupra: rx7 Speedracersupra: 3000gt Speedracersupra: 300zx Speedracersupra: supercars LSkymanl: so you'll race my 94 integra then Speedracersupra: omg Speedracersupra: thats not a import Speedracersupra: those are a joke LSkymanl: yes it is Speedracersupra: lol Speedracersupra: i meant supercars Speedracersupra: not supergood gas millege LSkymanl: so you wont race me at all Speedracersupra: why r u stuck on racing me? Speedracersupra: if u find me on the street LSkymanl: I dunno Speedracersupra: ill think about it LSkymanl: haha Speedracersupra: but till then Speedracersupra: im to busy Speedracersupra: working LSkymanl: alright... Speedracersupra: to go to the track LSkymanl: I just dont think u got that much power Speedracersupra: lol LSkymanl: goto the street races much? Id like to check that car out Speedracersupra: on which one? Speedracersupra: the white one? or the silver one? Speedracersupra: or my blue one? LSkymanl: which ever u prefre LSkymanl: you have 3 now? Speedracersupra: i drive the silver mostly Speedracersupra: that gots 500 hp Speedracersupra: the blue one gots 300 hp Speedracersupra: thts 3rd gen supra Speedracersupra: the 94 is white Speedracersupra: it gots Speedracersupra: 618 to to the wheels Speedracersupra: about 700 flywheel Speedracersupra: its running a t78 turbo Speedracersupra: with 850 injectors LSkymanl: a single turbo? Speedracersupra: im getting a Speedracersupra: bottle of happy gas Speedracersupra: for it LSkymanl: why not more boost LSkymanl: last time u said u had twin turbos Speedracersupra: thats my silver one Speedracersupra: the white one Speedracersupra: is single LSkymanl: oh ok Speedracersupra: yes LSkymanl: cool Speedracersupra: im still Speedracersupra: putting the stuff on it now Speedracersupra: its still missing Speedracersupra: a hood Speedracersupra: and front headlights Speedracersupra: im goiing to take my hood of my silver one Speedracersupra: and put it on there Speedracersupra: and get me diffrent hood for my silver one LSkymanl: ahh LSkymanl: so you run em on the street much Speedracersupra: the silver one yes Speedracersupra: the white Speedracersupra: one isnt registered Speedracersupra: or should i say Speedracersupra: insured Speedracersupra: i mean Speedracersupra: the blue one isnt either Speedracersupra: im going to sell the blue one Speedracersupra: and going to Speedracersupra: just race the white one at the track Speedracersupra: but the races Speedracersupra: that i go to Speedracersupra: wouldnt let u Speedracersupra: race me LSkymanl: whys that LSkymanl: I dont get it Speedracersupra: u r Speedracersupra: domestic LSkymanl: what track are you going to goto Speedracersupra: im import Speedracersupra: your Speedracersupra: integra LSkymanl: so?f Speedracersupra: is fwd Speedracersupra: im rwd Speedracersupra: they put me up Speedracersupra: against Speedracersupra: skylines LSkymanl: My mustang is RWD Speedracersupra: 300gt Speedracersupra: yes LSkymanl: those are AWD LSkymanl: so thats not the same Speedracersupra: not all of them Speedracersupra: not all skylines are awd LSkymanl: so you will only race a RWD import LSkymanl: is what your trying to say? Speedracersupra: at the races Speedracersupra: thats how its setup Speedracersupra: dont ask me Speedracersupra: it just is LSkymanl: what track are u gona goto Speedracersupra: i go to hot import drags Speedracersupra: long beach Speedracersupra: but thats in october Speedracersupra: but im not going to go even Speedracersupra: cause Speedracersupra: im going to be in vegas Speedracersupra: for another supra meet LSkymanl: theres a track in long beach? Speedracersupra: i meant Speedracersupra: pomona Speedracersupra: lol Speedracersupra: long beach Speedracersupra: is where we have LSkymanl: pomona doesnt take street cars anymore Speedracersupra: the hot importn nights Speedracersupra: then Speedracersupra: **** Speedracersupra: i dont know Speedracersupra: palmdale Speedracersupra: i havent gone Speedracersupra: in like Speedracersupra: almost a year LSkymanl: yeah LSkymanl: palmdale is slow Speedracersupra: plusy Speedracersupra: my white one Speedracersupra: isnt going to be street Speedracersupra: car anyways LSkymanl: you should consider carlsbad, even though its dirty LSkymanl: or famoso LSkymanl: hey I can drive my freinds Rx-7 LSkymanl: want to race me in that Speedracersupra: what color is it? Speedracersupra: what year? LSkymanl: Red Speedracersupra: hmmm Speedracersupra: twin turbo? Speedracersupra: u know those cars Speedracersupra: dont last right? Speedracersupra: i love that car Speedracersupra: to death LSkymanl: not that much, I know it runs close to my stang Speedracersupra: like the supra Speedracersupra: but LSkymanl: its turbo LSkymanl: I dunno if its TT or single turbo Speedracersupra: what year is it? LSkymanl: 95 Im pretty sure Speedracersupra: its TT Speedracersupra: how many miles he got on it? Speedracersupra: and has he replaced the motor yet LSkymanl: no i think its about 50k miles Speedracersupra: he will soon LSkymanl: yeah, u want to run it? Speedracersupra: maybe one day LSkymanl: oh nevermind he says its a single turbo convesrion LSkymanl: altec LSkymanl: low impedance injectors LSkymanl: nos on the intercooler LSkymanl: its RWD LSkymanl: and import Speedracersupra: that beat me dude Speedracersupra: on my silver one LSkymanl: it runs low 12's LSkymanl: cuz I ran w/ it Speedracersupra: wtf? Speedracersupra: that slow? Speedracersupra: **** LSkymanl: and it pulls me topend LSkymanl: but I yank it outta the hole bad Speedracersupra: has nos and only does 12 Speedracersupra: wtf LSkymanl: bad traction LSkymanl: when the boost hits it spins LSkymanl: like crazy Speedracersupra: that sucks Speedracersupra: i got traction control Speedracersupra: but mine does the same Speedracersupra: at times anyays LSkymanl: yeah LSkymanl: so lets run em Speedracersupra: okay Speedracersupra: u go that way Speedracersupra: and ill go that away LSkymanl: huh? Speedracersupra: u got that way Speedracersupra: <------ Speedracersupra: and ll go that way Speedracersupra: --------> LSkymanl: thats not a race LSkymanl: well when u want to, ill race u in the stang LSkymanl: run it on 87 octane LSkymanl: all motor LSkymanl: 302 Speedracersupra: 87? Speedracersupra: i can only use 92 LSkymanl: yup Speedracersupra: and i got a 200 Speedracersupra: not very fair Speedracersupra: let me LSkymanl: why Speedracersupra: get a bigger engine LSkymanl: then Ill run 92 and use the NOS Speedracersupra: so Speedracersupra: wait till i get my nos Speedracersupra: and my turbo set up LSkymanl: then I need a turbo Speedracersupra: and we can run Speedracersupra: no u dont LSkymanl: and we can run Speedracersupra: u got Speedracersupra: 3 more liter Speedracersupra: than me Speedracersupra: take those away LSkymanl: you got way more boost than me Speedracersupra: ill run stock boost LSkymanl: how about just run what you bring LSkymanl: whatever it is Speedracersupra: okay Speedracersupra: im taking my moms car Speedracersupra: deal? LSkymanl: ok LSkymanl: what is it Speedracersupra: its a gs400 LSkymanl: ok LSkymanl: lexus? LSkymanl: its faster than ur supra? Speedracersupra: no Speedracersupra: its Speedracersupra: gots more room Speedracersupra: to **** Speedracersupra: thats why i like it Speedracersupra: lol LSkymanl: haha LSkymanl: cool LSkymanl: why would u race in it tho Speedracersupra: cause Speedracersupra: it hauls *** Speedracersupra: its an auto Speedracersupra: chill Speedracersupra: chillin LSkymanl: but its slower Speedracersupra: on it with 17 in rims LSkymanl: ? Speedracersupra: its dope Speedracersupra: so its not all about racing Speedracersupra: i dont race all da time LSkymanl: alright Speedracersupra: i do like to just drive around LSkymanl: well if u ever wanna race u know where to find me LSkymanl: I gtg LSkymanl: later Speedracersupra: lol Speedracersupra: u do that LSkymanl: hah what? If you took the time to read all that BS, what a jokin fag! Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows. 12.55@107mph 50-175 Nitrous Works WET Kit just added. |
06-25-2001, 06:06 PM | #20 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 176
|
Skyler, why did you waste your breath with that dude? I have read through some bs before, that guys a fag! So when do you want to hook up and go to the track? I want to run the new engine and see what it can do. Talk to ya later sky.
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
S-Trimmed 94 GT vs Supra TT | *Steeda90GT* | Stang Stories | 26 | 07-24-2002 01:55 PM |
Ran a BPU++ Supra TT Today | SprchrgdPony | Stang Stories | 1 | 04-28-2002 01:27 AM |
modded tt supra, against friends 347.... | 90dpscoupe | Stang Stories | 14 | 10-29-2001 03:38 PM |
Pesky Supra, actually thought he had a fast car. | Unit 5302 | Stang Stories | 7 | 03-20-2001 01:34 PM |
Got beat by a Supra!!! | King Snake | Modular Madness | 11 | 10-29-2000 01:22 PM |