The Pledge of Allegiance!! (God or No) (A little long...Sorry)

Originally posted by Mr 5 0


Way too late now, Chris. You've made your statements, now we'll discuss them.

/me...

[PKRWUD]

I still think it's overwhelmingly simple. Leave it the way it was. If your child, or EVERYBODIES child, wants to say Under God, or Under Ozzy for that matter, GO FOR IT! Just return the text to the way it was originally. I'm not saying this with an agnostic or athiest agenda, I'm saying this as a rationaly thinking individual. I never suggested altering anything from the way it was originally written, including the Declaration of Independence. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong for their beliefs. ALL I AM SAYING is that the pledge never should have been altered in the first place. So simple.

Take care,
-Chris

[jimberg]

I pledge allegience to my flag and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

That's the original pledge, Chris. It's changed over time as the people demanded it. The pledge changed in 54 because the people wanted it to be changed, not because Congress had a whim to do it. Adding "under God" brings it more in line with all of our other national rituals.

[Mach351C]

Does chris beleive in god?, just wondering. may have nothing to do with this conversation

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by PKRWUD

I still think it's overwhelmingly simple. Leave it the way it was. If your child, or EVERYBODIES child, wants to say Under God, or Under Ozzy for that matter, GO FOR IT! Just return the text to the way it was originally. I'm not saying this with an agnostic or athiest agenda, I'm saying this as a rationaly thinking individual. I never suggested altering anything from the way it was originally written, including the Declaration of Independence. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong for their beliefs. ALL I AM SAYING is that the pledge never should have been altered in the first place. So simple.

Chris:

I'll try again, as simply as I can put it.

The phrase 'Under God' states a fact: that the United States of America was founded 'Under God' as jimberg and I have attempted to point out but that you seem to be unable to recognize prefering to continually claim that 'it shouldn't be there' and calling that opinion 'simple'.

Call it an accomodation if you will but it the words are in there because they are factual. Those who object to hearing the word 'God' have no rational basis for their objection.

The lame attempt to call this a violation of the 'establishment clause' in our Constitution falls flat on examination. It clearly doesn't fly because saying the words 'Under God' do not constitute the 'establishment' of a national church in any way that any reasonable person could ascertain.

This lawsuit and the inane ruling by the liberal Ninth Circuit Federal Court fly in the face of reason and good judgement, as the national outcry over it proved.

It doesn't matter when the phrase 'Under God' was inserted as part of the Pledge, the fact is that it was put there by a Congress responding to the will of the people, as we do in a democracy.

It wasn't put there by the religious right, Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham, Pat Robertson or Republicans, it was put there by the will of the people of this country - and for good reason. To simply acknowledge the Creator mentioned so many times in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as well as most of the Federalist Papers as the source of our rights.

You may dispute this or deny it as you wish or just keep stating that 'it shouldn't be there' and how 'simple' that is but it's just as simple to most everyone that 'Under God' is a viable statement that has a place in our Pledge of Allegiance. Those who object may legally refuse to recite it but to force everyone else to stop saying the Pledge by declaring it 'unconstitutional' is wrong and that foolish ruling will be eventually overturned by the Supreme Court.

That's about as simple as I can make it.

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by Mach351C
Does chris beleive in god?, just wondering. may have nothing to do with this conversation

I suppose so. Not necessarily the same God you believe in, but yeah, I think there is a higher power.

Take care,
-Chris

[srv1]

wow! this is a big issue at hand! if you say "god" it will effect some people! oh my! what will we do now? they are going to take "god" out? NOOOOOOOOOOOO! my life isnt complete without it!!! life wouldnt be the same! come on people! who gives a rats asz? really? is it really that important? why dont we worry about more more important things like curing cancer, AIDS and children that are dying in the hospitals waiting for a cure or a heart! this is pathetic! believe what you want to believe. say what you want to say, but dont make mountain out of a mowhill! i am not religious at all. i guess you can "catagorize" me as agnostic athiest. as you all have your rights and your opinions, why dont you save that energy for something i mentioned above.
there is people on this board who are sick or they have family or friends that who are in need. stop bickering. put it where it counts.
you people keep arguing over B.S. this thread is like a "Chevy vs. Ford" arguement. its the same everytime and nothing changes and it gets old.

Chris, it is that simple!

i lied. i said i wasnt going to get involved. im a liar sue me! its the American way!

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by srv1

wow! this is a big issue at hand! if you say "god" it will effect some people! oh my! what will we do now? they are going to take "god" out? NOOOOOOOOOOOO! my life isnt complete without it!!! life wouldnt be the same! come on people! who gives a rats asz? really? is it really that important? why dont we worry about more more important things like curing cancer, AIDS and children that are dying in the hospitals waiting for a cure or eart! this is pathetic! believe what you want to believe. say what you want to say, but dont make mountain out of a mowhill! i am not religious at all. i guess you can "catagorize" me as agnostic athiest. as you all have your rights and your opinions, why dont you save that energy for something i mentioned above.
there is people on this board who are sick or they have family or friends that who are in need. stop bickering. put it where it counts.
you people keep arguing over B.S. this thread is like a "Chevy vs. Ford" arguement. its the same everytime and nothing changes and it gets old.

Chris, it is that simple!

i lied. i said i wasnt going to get involved. im a liar sue me! its the American way!

Let me get this straight:

You find the Pledge of Allegiance issue irrelevent but you post a long diatribe about it. Interesting.

You state how bored you are with the issue and ask if it's that important - when four pages of messages have already been posted and many thoughful comments made. Missed that, did you?

You compare the importance of the Plege issue with curing cancer and AIDS and throw in little kids in hospitals (you left out Bambi) as being more worthy of our time but you have a high post count on a Mustang website, indicating that you don't seem to spend much time on those more pressing issues you admonish others to be concerned about.

You compare the thread to a Chevy vs Ford thread but appear to miss the fact that this issue concerns our rights and freedoms, not our cars.

You tell the people who post to 'stop bickering' and then write a long post berating people as to how wasteful this thread is.

You call yourself an 'atheist agnostic' which is contradiction in terms. Check a dictionary.

You say we all have our rights and our opinions - then say that 'it gets old' when we express them.

You make little sense and offer no useful information with your comments but I wanted to respond to them as you seem to have missed the point here.

This forum is intended for open-ended discussion about issues that interest the members. You are free to contribute or not. If you decide to post a diatribe and criticize everyone who has taken the time and effort to reply to this thread then expect a critical rebuttal and don't cry about it or get all P.O'ed and whine.

No one here asked for your opinion, you freely offered it. O.K. That's cool. This is my opinion about your opinion.

Some advice: Skip or leave the thread if it annoys you.

It's simple.

[srv1]

Mr 5.0 has all the answers! just twist my words around a little why dont you? if you cant understand what i am saying rather than interpret the words on my screen for your own personal pleasure or simply by ASKING me what i meant, then dont go into your little rants of knowing everything because you post every second on this site.

yeah the pledge is more important than "little kids in hospitals"! how weak! i cant believe you even posted something that shallow!

indicating that you don't seem to spend much time on those more pressing issues you admonish others to be concerned about.

when was the last time you stepped outside into the real world? there is more to life than just a computer screen.

for all you others that dont understand what i mean, PM me or simply post a reply asking me what i meant. dont go to extremes like MR 5.0 does.

really Randy its SIMPLE!

[PKRWUD]

***** TIME OUT *****

James-

Cute GIF!



Take care,
-Chris

***** O.K., TIME IN *****

[The Deuce]

Originally posted by The Deuce


Assume the man was a vegitarian. Would an outcry against serving meat in school cause such a response? Or would people say that if you don't want to eat meat, don't. Too bad if you don't like the smell of hamburgers.

And yes, the American Cattle farmers do get some of the money already taken out of vegitarians paychecks. But I do not know of any vegan schools. Do vegitarians have a choice? Or are the beliefs of a meat eating majority forced upon them??

Just something to think about.

Yes, I just quoted myself. I am looking for someone to take on this question, because everybody seems real fired up because the issue is about you know who in the you know what.

As a question, would not a vegitarian family be as concerned about their child's 'forced' exposure to meat in school? Why has this problem not been addressed?

[mustangII460]

Without posting my opinion again.

Im in "jimberg's" camp.

[7up]

Originally posted by The Deuce


As a question, would not a vegitarian family be as concerned about their child's 'forced' exposure to meat in school? Why has this problem not been addressed?

First off, you can bring your own lunch to school, you don't have to eat the school's meat.

Second, there is no clause in the constitution about separation of meat and state. Although the separation of church and state isn't actually in there, it has just been intrepreted that way.

Third, it would be cool if Mustang Works had a spell checker, because I need one!

[srv1]

Third, it would be cool if Mustang Works had a spell checker, because I need one!

y, kant u spel gewd? u nead uh spel chekker? wut four?

[The Deuce]

Originally posted by 7up


First off, you can bring your own lunch to school, you don't have to eat the school's meat.

Second, there is no clause in the constitution about separation of meat and state. Although the separation of church and state isn't actually in there, it has just been intrepreted that way.

Third, it would be cool if Mustang Works had a spell checker, because I need one!

Thanks 7up.

1. All you have to do at school is show up, do the work, and learn.

2. It is only not there because the veggies were oppressed in the 18th century.

3. I'm with you on the last one.

There is no reason to omit "under God" from our pledge. Our contry was founded as such, plain and simple. That's why it was added. Many people don't like the fact but that's how it is.

Someone stated that the phrase should be removed, and those who believe can add "under God" as they please.

How about leaving it, and those who DON'T want to say it, don't say it? It was stated that leaving the phrase in might "offend" an athiest/non-believer. Ever think that leaving it out might offend those who BELIEVE in God? Of course not, the rights of those who believe in God NEVER matter to the lefties. But then again, all the lefties care about is themselves, their political agenda, getting votes, and shooting down anyone who might "disagree" with them. How anyone could be possibly offended by two words in a pledge is beyond me. No one's praying, no one is asked to bow their heads and close their eyes. The Bible isn't being quoted. This isn't an "establishment of religion", it's a part of our country's history.

This is a free country. As much as you might not like it, people can(but are not always allowed) to say what they want. YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT NOT TO BE OFFENDED.

It is said that government-paid for public schools should not allow any kind of mention of God, as to violate seperation of church and state. Should we disallow money to be brought into schools, as it has "In God We Trust" stamped on it? Mabye the phrase should be ground off every coin and deleted from every bill. The government makes currency, sooner or later some leftist whacko will be demanding just that be done.

Why is evolution taught, yet Creation is eliminated? Oh wait, that would involve God in a school, and would actually make some sense, horrendous as it may sound.

The rights of "non-believers" are always enforced, while the rights of those that believe in God are not to be allowed. So much for equal rights. The constant and gradual elimination of God in everything in this country will be its eventual downfall.

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by fiveoboy01
Ever think that leaving it out might offend those who BELIEVE in God? Of course not, the rights of those who believe in God NEVER matter to the lefties. But then again, all the lefties care about is themselves, their political agenda, getting votes, and shooting down anyone who might "disagree" with them. How anyone could be possibly offended by two words in a pledge is beyond me.

Look junior, watch who you call a lefty. If the constitution was written that way, it would be just dandy, but it's not, so grow up and get over it.

[mustanggt350]

Originally posted by PKRWUD



Look junior, watch who you call a lefty. If the constitution was written that way, it would be just dandy, but it's not, so grow up and get over it.

Oh man I just got the biggest laugh out of that!! Chris, a lefty, oh that kills me!!!
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The sad thing is, I started this tread in the intent of everyone sharing his or her feelings. A nice grown up discussion, I have never seen so many people picking on each other. I see points in what every single person is saying, maybe the answer is somewhere in the middle of all this. But what is it? That is the question!!

Can't we all just get along?
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Oh, James great avatar!!! Very funny, I was getting tired of the sheep anyway!! LOL

Shelby

[Crazy Horse GT]

a great thread shelby, but no one will ever take away my belief in jesus christ, even though i cuss etc, i have a very deep belief in him, so thats jmo, everyones intitled to their own, so be it, cya

[PKRWUD]

And that's great, Marty! i think too many people are getting lost in this whole subject. I have never, ever said that you shouldn't believe!

Take care,
-Chris