Iraqi prisoner abuse

[82 GT]

What's people feeling about the situation about the Iraqi prisoners being abused and how the guards are being court marshalled?
I think that's total bullshit!! Why should we care about the same people who are killing our soldiers every day!
What about the abuse Jessica Lynch went through? What did America or Iraq for that matter do about that......nothing!!
What about that American civilian who's head got cut off? What did Iraq do about punishing those people....nothing!!
What's our goverment going to do about it.....nothing!!
We should get the hell out of there because they don't seem to want our help.
Iraq is nothing to be losing American solders over...at least not at this point. Sadam is captured and out of power. Job done...let's go home and handle bigger threats....like North Korea
My point is: If anyone feels sorry for the Iraqi POW's then I question his/her loyalty.

[Ieatcamaros]

I wish they would just leave that country alone. Them towel head bastards wouldn't ever help us if we needed it. Which we won't. I say bomb the whole damn middle east and forget about it. But that would make some other country mad and then they would bomb us. That would suck. It would be cool if we could get away with it.

[carlos.elliott]

As a american soilder who has been there for over a year and a deputy sheriff who works in a prison I have my own views. Yes I agree most of the people in the prison would shoot us ina heartbeat if they had a chance. But I still feel that prisoneers should be treated with some respect. I do feel that in america the prisoners have more rights than the guards do allot of times. I feel they should not have the rights our prisoners have. But they still should not have been treated as they were. The job in Iraq for our soilders still there has gotten harder now. The force in Iraq oposing the U.S. being there now have a way of gathering more followers. The Iraq people don't see sex in the same way as the U.S. as we do. They are among the most uptight people I have ever met and they have been know to kill there own children if they get raped as it is sceen as a unaceptible act. So there it is I don't want anyone to think I by any means I am on there side as I am not but no matter who you are you deserve to be treated fairly. (AND THEY DON'T TREAT THERE PRISONERS ANY DIFFRENT)

[CHRIS75]

As far as i'm concerned who gives a ****** about the middle east, get our soldiers out of there, no more need to die for those ungrateful s.o.b's. We should have sent a couple nuc's instead, level the desert, clean it up and call it our own (THANK GOD THEY DON'T ELECT PEOPLE LIKE ME FOR PRESIDENT LOL). Because the desert rats would be gone. With all that has happened starting on 9/11 it scary to think what are kids are in for, from birth these people teach there kids to hate the way the west lives, so no matter how much we try to help them they'll always hate us. And as far as the prisoner go i thought it was funny to see the pics of them being degraded, those soldiers had no problem killing the people in the north or our soldiers so ****** them. They should line them up against the wall and shoot them on national t.v. for us americans to see. Who gives a sh*t about the rest of the world it didn't happen to them it happened to us, they can say how bad the feel but in reality they saying we deserved it. Ever notice how we are the first to help out and then the rest of the world drag's on our coat tail.


LEVEL THE DESERT, CLAIM IT AS OUR OWN, THEN LOWER GAS PRICES

[Ieatcamaros]

As far as i'm concerned who gives a ****** about the middle east, get our soldiers out of there, no more need to die for those ungrateful s.o.b's. We should have sent a couple nuc's instead, level the desert, clean it up and call it our own (THANK GOD THEY DON'T ELECT PEOPLE LIKE ME FOR PRESIDENT LOL). Because the desert rats would be gone. With all that has happened starting on 9/11 it scary to think what are kids are in for, from birth these people teach there kids to hate the way the west lives, so no matter how much we try to help them they'll always hate us. And as far as the prisoner go i thought it was funny to see the pics of them being degraded, those soldiers had no problem killing the people in the north or our soldiers so ****** them. They should line them up against the wall and shoot them on national t.v. for us americans to see. Who gives a sh*t about the rest of the world it didn't happen to them it happened to us, they can say how bad the feel but in reality they saying we deserved it. Ever notice how we are the first to help out and then the rest of the world drag's on our coat tail.

Preach on!!!!!!

[CHRIS75]

OK I WILL............ LOL
How about do you ever notice that when we go to war with other countries after we blown sh*it up we help that country rebuild which cost's us money, If they wnat to ****** with the gods of war, rebuild your own damn country, don't count on the american people to help rebuild, we should just get back on your ships etc. and give them a big ****** you and leave. We should worry about our own country and take what we want, the rest of the planet doesn't matter!

[OnMy3rdStang]

Get our soldiers back to the US and BLOW THE IRAQ BASTARDS AWAY!!!!!

[Mr 5 0]

I strongly supported the liberation of Iraq and I continue to support the democratization of that nation. Yes, it comes at a price - tens of billions of dollars and over 750 American lives lost - so far. The prisoner abuse scandal is a loss for our image but the actions of a few soldiers do not reflect the good work of the more than 130,000 America military personnel serving in Iraq. Much good is happening in Iraq that never gets reported. I know, because I have an acquaintance who is in Iraq helping to organize the prison system into a system that is humane and effective. He knew nothing about the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison because he's a contracted civilian and wasn't involved in the military-run portion of the prison facility. What he does know is that 3,000 schools have been opened in Iraq (with more to come) and the Iraqi schoolchildren have new (Arabic) textbooks and supplies, thanks to the United States. Many new hospitals are operating and more Iraqis have electricity than during the Saddam Hussein era. The nation is functioning well, considering the fact that it was in the midst of a war just a year ago and suffered under dictators like Saddam for most of the 20th century. That never gets mentioned in the leftist media that only covers the bad news, with endless photos of abused Iraqi prisoners and grinning morons wearing the uniform of the U.S. military posing with them. That needs to be covered - but not for weeks on end.

As many have mentioned, these were detainees that were suspected of terrorism or terrorist ties, not jaywalkers or someone who was caught speeding. That doesn't make their abuse justified, just a bit more understandable. This national media-driven cry-fest and apology-orgy is getting beyond tiresome. Some American military personnel did bad things to suspected terrorists in their charge. It was found out, announced by the Army Command back in January, investigated and the perps are being Court-Martiled, as they should be. Some higher-ups may also be brought to account before it's over. There was no denial, no coverup. Yes, what happened violated the rules and makes the United States look bad, but we are dealing with it, quickly and efficiently, as we should. Both President Bush and Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld have publically apologized to the Iraqi people for what occured in Abu Ghraib prison. We Americans admit our mistakes and deal with them.

Contrast our response to the prisoner abuse scandal to the recent beheading of the American civilian Nick Berg, a Jewish man. The barbaric criminals who did this were proud: praising their god while slashing off Berg's head - and threatened many more such deaths to Americans on the film they made of the execution. While there was some Arab condemnation for the act, it was nothing like the public handwringing we've seen in America because some Iraqi prisoners were humiliated in a U.S. military-run prison. The difference is stark - and so was the media coverage. While Berg's beheading was covered, it didn't stay on the front pages long. The leftmedia couldn't wait to get back to what 'we' did wrong at Abu Ghraib prison earlier this year. The media is attempting to make this look as if the entire war was wrong and in so doing, infer that President Bush was wrong for invading Iraq. He was not wrong.

There is one less large terrorist-friendly country in the middle east and 25 million Arabs have a chance at freedom for the first time in their lives. The U.S. has a base in the region and can withdraw from our shaky 'ally', Saudi Arabia and we'll eventually have another stable oil supply to buy from. Most importantly, Islamic terrorism is taking a big hit in Iraq and is losing, steadily, week by week. Yes, it's slow and tough and expensive in both lives and money, granted, but the war in Iraq is the best thing the president could have done to attack terrorism on it's home base, instead of here, in our cities and front yards. We will prevail, Iraq will be free and the Islamic terrorists have been decimated, if not defeated totally as yet.

America cannot simply 'nuke' other nations that annoy us but we cannot ignore them, either. We did that with Islamic terrorism for far too long. Pretending it didn't exist or didn't matter was a huge mistake. September 11, 2001 and the 3,000 lives lost in Manhattan were a wakeup call that had to be heeded, and President Bush did just that. He recognized the threat to our nation from Islamic terrorism and set about defeating it. He always said it would take a long time, would never be easy and would cost us in lives and money - but that we had no choice. This country cannot sit back and allow faceless terrorists to willfully murder thousands of Americans and do nothing or expect the useless United Nations to 'fix it'. They can't - and they wouldn't if they could. We're basically on our own here. Contrary to the media, we do have allies but America, as the strongest military power on the face of the earth and the richest nation in the world must shoulder the bulk of this burden that we've been confronted with. We're doing so in Iraq and the Islamic terrorist networks are being damaged big-time as they attempt to stop us in Iraq. Our military is effective and while restrained as to prevent civilain deaths or damaging holy sites, we are still killing many terrorists, day by day. We don't hear or read much about that, only the American deaths, which is understandable, but the fact that there are many more terrorists dying for Allah in Iraq than American servicemen should be reported and it usually is not, or minimized.

As I said; I've long been a supporter of the war in Iraq and the presidents policies to fight terrorism. I think George W. Bush has done a fantastic job in the few years he's had to do this. starting from (almost) scratch. I think Donald Rumsfeld, a 72-year-old multimillionaire - who needs his job as Secretary of Defense like a hole in the head - is a great SOD and we're fortunate to have him at this crucial period in our history, along with the rest of the Bush Senior Staff. I pray for every one of the brave men (and women) serving in our armed forces and especially for the servicemen and women in Iraq, doing a magnificent job under the worst conditions. I expect this war will be won and terrorism defeated to the point where it will no longer be a real and present threat to our nation. That may be years away but it will happen and this president - George W. Bush - was the match that lit the torch of freedom in that region.

I salute him - and to end this piece remind anyone bothering to read it that while a few nincompoops may have soiled our image in the middle east for a time, ours is a justifiably proud nation with a history of both ups and downs (WWII, slavery) but ultimately, we are a people of fairness and justice doing much more good than harm in the world, which is why so many immigrants, legal and otherwise, flock here, year after year. 'America' means 'freedom'. We covet no nation's land and we even help those we defeat after a time of war. We are Americans. I remain proud of that despite the leftmedia's attempts to make me feel ashamed of my country. I never have - and I doubt I ever will.

[CHRIS75]

the only reason i say nuke them is because we are going to spend all this time, money and manpower and lives to change what happens in the middle east, but in all fairness it will never change, you watch we'll pull our soldiers out of there but we'll be back in a couple of years dealing with another dictator and the same problems over and over again. no matter what we do it never going to be enough. who really cares about the abuse! these soldiers are over there fighting and dying for us and our freedoms to help another country out, taken away from there family's they have a lot of stress on them let them take it out on the enemy(the people who cause this sh*it in the first place). You watch before this is over we'll be fighting the whole desert. We need to take care of this now and get it over with once and for all, what happens if the next time the sh*t hits the fan over there and we have a pu**y as a president( LIKE KERRY) then what? The other thing the president should do is deport them otu of this country(GOOD OR NOT) so we don't have to worry about the next type of transportation there going to use to kill american's.

[Ieatcamaros]

we have a pu**y as a president( LIKE KERRY) then what?

ROFLMFAO!!! Well said!

[CHRIS75]

TY
I think there is alot of people here in america that feel the same way but don't what to express it for fear they'll be called a raciest.

[Capri306]

Personally, I believe that the liberal American media has blown this out of proportion. What is so 'cruel' about shaming them into submission, to get possibly vital information out of them that could save more lives? I suppose the liberal media deems making suspected terrorist thugs listen to Metallica and watch Sesame Street for hours on end as "cruel torture." I'm not going to agree with treating them as they treat us. Nations are judged by how they treat prisoners, and I just don't think we should lower our own standards too far.

But I digress; if it were ME, I'd be giving out hourly anal/testicular electrocutions, and then broadcast it live to the entire arab population of the middle east, while saying, "this is what we willl do to each and every one of you who have a problem with us and try to hurt us." I wish GW wasn't up for reelection this year, for the sole purpose he could just tell those idiots to go pound sand. I think he probably would, too!

Hey, if you want to see some shaming, go to collegehumor dot com. I think they should be getting these prisoners drunk, then sharpie and antique 'em.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by CHRIS75 :

the only reason i say nuke them is because we are going to spend all this time, money and manpower and lives to change what happens in the middle east, but in all fairness it will never change, you watch we'll pull our soldiers out of there but we'll be back in a couple of years dealing with another dictator and the same problems over and over again.

I have to disagree with your presumptions here. I assume that you realize that 'nuking' any country is an absurd plan of action in an age when many nations in that region have nuclear weapons (Israel, Pakistan and India come to mind). The U.S. using even a limited nuclear weapon in Iraq (or any other Arab nation) would have disastrous results and probably serve to launch a nuclear war in the middle east, which would be catastrophic, making such an act by the United States simply untenable.

I will freely acknowledge that the middle east, with it's tribal feuds and centuries-old animosities and wars, is not exactly fodder for democracy and I do not believe we'll see anything close to a liberal democracy in Iraq but we will see a representative government and not a theocracy or a dictatorship - for a number of reasons. The main one being that Coalition forces (mostly American, of course) will be on occupation duty in Iraq for years to come, much as they were in post-war Germany and Japan. They won't be in charge of the government but they will be there to support the elected government from would-be dictators and those who would try to overthrow the elected representatives of the Iraqi people. Many once said that the war-like Germans and insular, aggressive Japanese would never be able to sustain a democracy, either, but they did and very well, too. Almost 60 years after the defeat of the Axis powers; Germany, Japan and Italy are all democratic nations, albeit with somewhat socialist economies. So, I do not buy the claim that the Iraqi people will never be able to sustain a democracy. I believe that the personal and economic benefits of a democracy will be readily apparent to most Iraqis, who are generally a rather sophisticated people, unlike some of their neighbors.

no matter what we do it never going to be enough. who really cares about the abuse! these soldiers are over there fighting and dying for us and our freedoms to help another country out, taken away from there family's they have a lot of stress on them let them take it out on the enemy (the people who cause this sh*it in the first place).

We only 'care' about the prisoner abuses because how we treat our prisoners are an indicator of who we are. Sinking to the level of barbarians is not how we do things. While most of the abuse was fairly mild as 'abuse' is generally thought of, it was still wrong and unnecessary. 'Taking it out' on your prisoners is the way of a brutal and ignorant people, something the U.S. is not and never has been. I will readily agree, as I've already stated, that the leftmedia has made this abuse scandal far more important than it deserves. I'm sick of the whining about it at this point. It happened. It was wrong. It was reported, investigated (and the investigation announced to the media in January) and the perps were accused and will be tried in a military court. No cover up, no denial, no excuses. Enough already with the endless hand-wringing and whining, which is really just using the scandal to attack both the war itself and of course, the Bush administration.

You watch before this is over we'll be fighting the whole desert.

I doubt it. Most Arab armies are weak and relatively small. It's terrorists we're fighting, not Arab armies or even specific Arabs. While the U.S. is not loved in the middle east, many of the dictators, kings and Mullahs are not loved by their people, either, and those 'leaders' are worried that they'll be next to end up hiding in a hole somewhere if their people decide they've finally had enough of being oppressed and mistreated by a small group of unelected people. Note how former terrorist-lover Moammar Gadhafi of Libya decided to be a good citizen and willingly divest himself of his chemical and biological weapons and labs and to shut down his nuclear research. That happened because of the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the deposing of Saddam Hussein and his corrupt, brutally oppressive government. No, most Arabs don't really want to fight us, despite their anti-American bluster and bellowing. It's easy to get people out in the street to wave anti-America sighns on cue and yell 'Death to America' but getting the same people to actually put their lives on the line to support some nasty dictator or king is another story and one not likely to play out in the Arab world, especially when they see the positive beneifts of cooperating with the U.S. and establishing a representative government. While many Arab 'leaders' still cling to a fanciful pan-Arab vision, it's becoming clear that as we move further into the twenty-first century, that rancid dream is dead and trying to revive it (via Islamic terrorism) only brings misery and oppression.

We need to take care of this now and get it over with once and for all, what happens if the next time the sh*t hits the fan over there and we have a pu**y as a president ( LIKE KERRY) then what? The other thing the president should do is deport them otu of this country (GOOD OR NOT) so we don't have to worry about the next type of transportation there going to use to kill american's.

I agree that we need to 'take care of this now' - and that's what we're doing. Unfortuantely, it's not quick and easy - like dropping a nuclear bomb - and Americans tend to get impatient. Still, the fact remains that despite the leftmedia attempting to make it look as if we're losing in Iraq, we most definitely are not. George W. Bush is president, will very likely continue to be president for another four years and in that time, not only will Iraq enjoy the benefits of democracy but the terrorist networks will be reduced to the criminal gangs they always really were and their threat will have diminished considerably by 2009 - when Bush's second term ends.

I tend to agree with the idea of deporting Arabs but if they're here legally that won't be possible short of some kind of martial law being imposed, which could happen if were hit again in anything close to what happened on 9/11. Our borders do need to be tightened considerably but for reasons I cannot comprehend, the government (the Bush administration) doesn't seem eager to do that. I don't see why not. I'm not too worried about another terrorist attack on the U.S. because that will only make things much worse for the terrorists and make President Bush's re-election a sure thing at that point. Of course, terrorists have never been known for their intelligence. They had the Bush administration on the ropes after the Abu Ghraib prison scandal broke - and then they decided to behead an innocent American civilian, Nick Berg and release the video of the act, quickly turning public opinion away from worrying about suspected terrorist prisoners posing naked in embarrassing positions to a national revulsion with Arab terrorists, despite the leftmedias attempts to change the subject back to the prisoner abuse story. That beheading video was powerful proof that our enemy - terrorists - are barbaric and hateful - and they must be defeated.

[COBRA66]

thats what all of you back at home need to be thinking when you watch the news at night. I am a proud member of the Army, serving with 1st Infantry Division, based on FOB speicher in Tikrit. You know the things that my mother describes to me from what she sees and hears are apoling. I feel that the public will never truelly understand the great deeds that my fellow soldiers are doing over here. Since I have been here (feb 04) I have seen things that i never really wanted to in my entire life, but at the same time, I have also been witness to humanity at its best. Mr. 5.0 I applaud you for your thoughts on the war, cause you hit the nail right on the head. My battalion helps 4 local schools in the area. You all should see the smiles on their faces when we show up, it warms ones heart. Not only in the schools do you see the joy that we bring. Out side our gates there are dozens of farmers with a 3k radius, all of them give you a smile and a wave as you drive by. I have personally got to meet a few of them, and they are always eager to come up and shake your hand and practice their english, the stuff they have learned from the soldeirs before us.
It seems to me that the american people have forgoten their heritage. Americans through out the ages have fought and died not only for this country but for all the under privaleged people accross the world. Remember ww1 and 2, korea, vietnam, how about before that, the french revolution. It is the same battle that we're fighting today. These people need our help and yeah its going to be some time until my fellow soldiers and I get to finally leave this place for good. But if thats what it takes then thats what it takes. If we were to pull out now, then this country would fall under termoil and right back into the hands of another dictator, and we just cant have that now can we.
As far as the media trying to crucify the president for the actions of a few, that is the biggest bunch of s**t i ever heard. They keep asking him why were here, why are soldeirs dying? Well were here for all of the people who's lives are better now because we're here. They ask where are the weapons of mass destruction? I tell you they're right here, the two major components needed to make serin gas were found right here on this post.
Americans always talk about supporting our troops, but they don't really know what that means. Blasting the president and his cabinet is not supporting the troops. Trying to throw blame arround is not supporting the troops. I may not be the biggest supporter of the bush adminastration, but a dare the SOB who slanders him to welcome me home, because regardless of my opinions he is still my comander and chief. If there is one thing that this war has tought me this far, it is that America is full of whiners and hypocrites.
just the opinion of one soldier doing his time for his country!

[Stang_Girl617]

thank god they dont elect some of you ppl to president. If that was the case we would be the equivilant of 1940 Germany! The people who violated those people should be court marshalled... and they are lucky thats all they get... they should be treated the same. yes they are killing soliders dozens by the day.. but that was the choice they made... to defend their country. I am so proud of the army but their are a few bad apples... i think maybe have just been over a little long or maybe just are lead by bad apples. I pray for our army everynight. And not everyone in IRAQ hates our guts.... you ppl watch FOX NEWS way to much. Most are happy to see us coming. My cousin was one of the first to be deployed to iraq. he was a member of the 3rd infantry. I am so proud of him. by what he discribed most iraqs would cheer when they came into the villages... and im glad to know the women have rights now... more than most women in the middle east have ever had. AND AMERICA did that. I wish some of you ppl would sit down and actully talk with a member of the amry or marines or navy... You would know that Iraq isnt what the news tells you. because you know... they make that crap up. I have found fox news to be the worst yet. I have family in the marines as well... when my cousin first wrote us he told us... whatever we did... just dont pay attentino to the news... and thats the truth... DONT

but everyone has their own personal opinon about the war... just wish some werent so tyrannical.

[Fox Body]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to be "court-martialed" is simply to be subject to trial in a military court for transgression of military law. Doesn't mean they're gonna be shot or anything. So if these soldiers did something wrong or against the law, they should be tried and if found guilty, punished. No one should be above the law. I don't care who they are. When we justify the abuse of prisoners (whomever they are) the same way that they (the Iraqis) do, we become just like (as bad as) them and therefore CANNOT criticize them for what they do (b/c that'd just make us a bunch of hypocrites, right?). So let's not become barbarians like them and lets do things right. Let's not let our anger degrade our nation into a big uncivilized street gang (with a ton of money).

[MidNiteBlu 5.0]

I have to agree with mr 5 0 and stanggirl. As good as just nuking the entire area might sound theres no possible way the US could do that without every other country in the world severing thier ties with us because we would look like the tyrannical beast country that Saddams Iraq used to be. Not only that but it would prompt even more terrorist attacks from all over the world. Remember not all terrorists who dont like America are from the middle east

I am in full support of this war, always have been but destroying the entire region is not an answer. Also I feel the prisoner abuse should be punished by those who did it as they have given the US a bad image to the iraqi people.

[Capri306]

Originally posted by Stang_Girl617
thank god they dont elect some of you ppl to president. If that was the case we would be the equivilant of 1940 Germany!
.......
but everyone has their own personal opinon about the war... just wish some werent so tyrannical.

Oh God yes, it's a great thing I'm NOT in charge!

I'd run it like 37 A.D. Roman Empire, though.

[1989GT]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to be "court-martialed" is simply to be subject to trial in a military court for transgression of military law. Doesn't mean they're gonna be shot or anything.

Actually conviction by court martial is the same as a federal conviction. Maxium punishments depend on what they convicted of.
-Ryan

[82 GT]

I get tired of hearing people saying "America holds itself to highter standards than the rest of the world"
Don't get me wrong...I'm all American through and through but that statement is total bullshit.
If we(americans) have higher standard then why:

1) is the amount of justice one receives proportional to how much money he/she has. Any high profile case serves as a perfect example of this.

2) Why do we pour millions of dollars into foreign countries to rebuild them when we have homeless people right here in America?

3) Why do farmers destroy crops to create a loss and gain profits from that loss?

4) Why is America allowed to have as many nukes as they want but will not allow any others to have them or we threaten to "disarm" them?

I can go on and on but that's just an example.
I believe America is the best country in the world and the mightiest but we are not without our flaws.

We are not "above" abusing prisoners. We are all human beings. How can anyone say that when Americans kill each other every day?
Maybe we should spend more time fixing our own problem rather than trying to fix everyone else's.