PC VS MAC On Photoshop - Page 4

Unit 5302 · 08-25-2002, 07:14 PM

Okay, you're best suited to answering car questions Chris. Keep out of the computer world until you get a clue.

The Mac is setup to execute processes in less steps than a P4. It's true. Only a P4 executes 3 times as many tasks at once. Plus P4's new trace cache allows it to predict processes even before the commands are given with NO delay. Meaning while the Mac is waiting for the next bit of information, the P4 has a constant data stream and is saving 1-2 processes each cycle. Furthermore, since P4 has an insanely high clock speed, it processes each cycle faster than the G4.

You seriously need to read about some of this stuff before you run your mouth off.

I know you don't play games... with anybody, because your computer can't even run them anymore. Skyler and I have both asked how your junky little 233 was able to beat a 1.0GHz PC AND I PROVIDED BENCHMARKS to prove what you were saying was completely and utterly ridiculous.

I looked at the two benchmarks or so the Apple site had on it. Unlike you, I actually took your arguments into consideration. Then I came back with why they were so flawed. In memory testing, Apple was comparing Mac SDRAM vs PC SDRAM, which is great, if you're doing a comparison on 3 year old PIII. The P4 doesn't use SDRAM. Your processor benchmark didn't show a P4. The encoding benchmark was a farse. Like I stated before, and I have to re-state again. It was run on a "codec." Do you even know what that means? They ran the benchmark on a piece of a program that the Mac was specifically tailored to be fast on. Yet when the whole program is tested READ THE BENCHMARK LINK POSTED BY SKYLER AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS THREAD. Since you NEVER bothered to read the BENCHMARKS posted by Skyler, or the BENCHMARKS posted by me, which have full applications running, not just pieces of them. Your benchmarks were pathetic. EXACTLY like saying my near stock 87GT would kill Skyler's Saleen in a race by looking at our 60ft times both cars having street rubber. It's completely and totally skewed, just because my car will probably launch better cause I can get traction. But NO, can't look at the obvious. Can't research anything. Just get all peeved when you're PROVED wrong. Completely, totally, and utterly dead wrong.

Take a look at my analysis. It tells exactly why the G4 is inferior to the P4. Mac NEVER did a comparison. Just talked about their chip. Here, http://arstechnica.com/cpu/01q2/p4an...4andg4e-2.html read up on it if you think you can actually follow it. Better yet, read the whole article before you start running your mouth.

I see I was wrong several times because I posted examples, and real life experiences. While you were right because you just plain said so... LOL. It's called a debate. Not an argument. Thanks but your magazines are politcally biased, and news media like that are generally hardly experts. The technical information I posted is real comparisons, by real technical people.

Oh. One more thing. Learn some modesty. You've been absolutely hosed in this debate. You keep on digging a hole.

shadowblue89 · 08-25-2002, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skyman
Shadow- Thats Windows 98, shall we start comparing 2 versions older copies of the MAC OS? So thats completely irrelevent.

Skyler- Me posting that link was completely irrelevent. But it Does fall on the same path as what you posted here:

Quote:

Originally posted by Skyman
Obvious Im not serious here, but u gotta see this.

http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/ellenfeiss.html

Maybe if this girl wasnt stoned while using the computer she wouldnt have lost her paper.

Skyler

I thought this whole post was going to be a good subject to talk smack between the PC's and MAC's. As you Skyler and PKRWUD do talk to each other a lot and seem to be able to take sarcastic remarks as a joke real well(which is a good thing).
It seems as this subject has turned into a schit slinging, peker sizing contest.
Yes this subject does get touchy but everyone knows what each other chooses for their machine and that is fine(to each their own).
Kell- I don't know you too well but from previous posts on almost all subjects that I have seen you post about, you take things way to serious and need to calm down.
This was supposed to be fun.
With that said I will always keep my MAC no matter how slow it gets. Everyone can keep their PC as that is what they choose no problem by me.

::::I quit this subject until people can calm down a little and take some sarcasm::::

Unit 5302 · 08-25-2002, 10:48 PM

Tone is difficult to tell over the internet, Shadow The only reason you no longer like the thread is it's very sour for the Mac user. I was the first to lightly push a couple buttons, but I think it became pretty obvious who was hot under the collar, and it wasn't me.

I'm not super riled up or anything. I enjoy a good debate. You confuse anger with persistance, and well constructed arguments. All to often I find people automatically assume a disagreement must result in hurt feelings and a derogatory argument.

The idea I'm all ticked off has been brought up numerous times, on numerous threads. Just because my arguments are overpowering doesn't mean I'm upset. It does get me a little upset when people choose not to debate me, instead arguing, and never giving my research even the credit of taking it into account. I like to have some facts and data when i make my debate. I like to make sure I have my bases covered when I hear my opponents rebuttal (which is why I gave PKRWUD's posting of the Apple owned website it's fair review.) I read those pages, most of them completely unless I knew the information was not relevent. I then dismantled the information and used it to make my position stronger. It took me but minutes because the site's information was actually to my advantage. My main opponent didn't even bother to read the initial posted benchmark link. Apparently he didn't even take the time to look at several more links to information or benchmarks. He simply dismissed it. I took the time to look at his argument, and gave due respect to his position. He dismissed me, got upset, and took his chances that I would not be able to support my position. In fact I was able to support my position extremely well, I think. While at the same time pressing some buttons in the hopes he would research the information we both have access to to support his position better. It never happened.

Do I consider it time lost? Nope. I think the debate has given a large group of people the ability to learn about the advantages of a platform I consider superior.

PKRWUD mentioned earlier that I could sell ice to an Eskimo. He's right. If I believed in the product I was selling, which requires a good deal of information for me to evaluate.

Skyman · 08-26-2002, 01:44 AM

Yeah, I really enjoyed it actually. It was ment to be a debate, not an argument.

I learned a lot more about both platforms!

Skyler

Mr 5 0 · 08-26-2002, 03:32 PM

All:

Thanks for the information and for what it's worth, I enjoyed the debate.

I've debated both Chris (PKRWUD) and Kell (Unit 5302) on a few hot-button issues (drug legalization, religion) before and although it was intense, it was also intellectually stimulating because a worthy opponent forces you to think hard about your position and defend it with logic, not simply emotion-driven opinion.

In this case, I've long been curious as to what causes the chasm between Macintosh and PC fans and I've never seen a real debate over the facts before.

Admittedly, as a near-bumpkin in the world of computers I'm easily dazzled by the tech stuff but one thing is clear; just as aftermarket manufacturers for performance auto parts can play around with dyno HP numbers (by using a part on an otherwise stock engine and increasing performance or using the part on a highly modified engine and showing big gains - at 6400 RPM) so can computer manufacturers play around with the OS and other components to reach a desired number in performance and make their product appear superior. Understanding that simple fact of advertising, one must be very careful to evaluate the data and the source for it.

While I believe there may be a certain measure of equality between the two systems - depending on the application and many other factors - I would still buy another PC over the Mac. Then again, I'm reallya low-end user and all the bells and whistles are of only marginal interest to me anyway.

I agree with Chris that when the smoke clears it seems to be a personal preference and apparently once the decision is made to go with either the PC or the Macintosh there seems to be a real need to justify that choice. I understand that and I see a lot of it in the posts here. No one wants to be wrong. I empathize.

On subjective issues such as politics or religion, that's possible but with issues based on hard data such as computer performance it becomes difficult to escape conclusions - except that so much of the data is skewed by slight changes in the comparisons. As Kell said, his stock '87 5.0 may have a better 60-ft time than Sky's Mustang (due to putting down less power) but that doesn't mean it can beat Sky's Mustang in the quarter. One test doesn't determine the total usefullness and value of a computer product.

I'm not picking a winner but I've been educated here and for my next PC purchase (a few years away, at least) I may well contact some of you guys for up-to-date info and advice (along with Dan McClain, who advised me on my last PC buy).

It was fun for us bystanders and I'm leaving the thread open for any further comments but please avoid name-calling. It doesn't enhance anyone's argument and it takes down the tone of the discussion where it unfortunately does just become more about egos than information. I prefer information, especially on technecial issues. I suspect most members who care enough to read the thread feel the same way.

That said; thanks to all for the effort - and the information.

Kell; good to see you back, even if you are at variance with another prolific member. Keeps the board interesting.

'Don't be a stranger'.

induction · 08-26-2002, 04:13 PM

Quote:

SECTION B: The only possible answer is your friends went to a discount store IE Best Buy, and bought an E Machine with no RAM, a weak, integrated Motherboard, Bigfoot HDD, and bottom line processor.
[/B]

HEY !!! Be careful how ya talk about my E Machine She is very sensative with XP installed ! She can hear you and I don't need anymore problems out of her.

BTW, Did I tell all of you today that, " I love you all"?

Ok sorry Ill go back to my beer and leave all of you to it. This is very well done though and I am learning alot
my .02

Skyman · 08-26-2002, 08:13 PM

Hey Chris, how fast is your G4?

Skyler

Mustangbelle306 · 08-28-2002, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skyman

If real world tests like photoshop filters and actions arent good performance tests then what is? How about gameing performance? Everyone knows a PC Chip will THRASH a G4. The G4's claim to fame is its Adobe performance.

The positive things on the mac are that is slightly more user friendly. Dont take this the wrong way, but they are made so an idiot can use. Athough windows xp is just as good now. The UNIX based OS is a step in the right direction as well.

Is the mac a good system? Does it have a few advantages here and there? YES. Is it faster than the PC dollar for dollar? NOT A CHANCE.

Skyler

I totally agree...I've been using Macs for MANY more years than a PC (learned on a Mac, only had a PC for less than 2 years now) but when it comes to the casual internet user/gamer, a PC is a far superior choice than an Apple. More software, more updates, etc. Now...for Photoshop and Illustrator, I'd choose my Mac ANY DAY OF THE WEEK over a Dell, Sony etc.

Mustangbelle306 · 08-28-2002, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RBatson
Sky, my Vaio is under warranty and a year tech help so I guess I need to take the time to us it. Otherwise I would box this thing up and send it to you.

I know they cut corners where they can but I don't think sony cut too many corners with this unit... It has a Pioneer DVD player and a Pioneer DVD burner, I just think I got ripped on the software.

No. Mine has crashed more times than I can remember, and the one that my dad bought 6 months after mine is absolute trash as well. I don't know enough about computers to say why (rather be chasing butterflies

) but I've had NOTHING but trouble with my laptop. I finally got a Dell...dude

Mustangbelle306 · 08-28-2002, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TXinPA
no! my toys are better!

LOL That's exactly what this argument is, a CPU pissing contest

...It crops up every few months, and its always the same people defending their products...who really cares?

Just chalk it up to the other guy missing out on something great, and give it a rest

I've tried both, and love aspects of both brands. Do I care about helping someone else out that doesn't want my help? Not a chance in HELL

08-26-2002, 01:44 AM	#64
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Yeah, I really enjoyed it actually. It was ment to be a debate, not an argument. I learned a lot more about both platforms! Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

08-26-2002, 03:32 PM	#65
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Mac vs PC, Round 9,297 All: Thanks for the information and for what it's worth, I enjoyed the debate. I've debated both Chris (PKRWUD) and Kell (Unit 5302) on a few hot-button issues (drug legalization, religion) before and although it was intense, it was also intellectually stimulating because a worthy opponent forces you to think hard about your position and defend it with logic, not simply emotion-driven opinion. In this case, I've long been curious as to what causes the chasm between Macintosh and PC fans and I've never seen a real debate over the facts before. Admittedly, as a near-bumpkin in the world of computers I'm easily dazzled by the tech stuff but one thing is clear; just as aftermarket manufacturers for performance auto parts can play around with dyno HP numbers (by using a part on an otherwise stock engine and increasing performance or using the part on a highly modified engine and showing big gains - at 6400 RPM) so can computer manufacturers play around with the OS and other components to reach a desired number in performance and make their product appear superior. Understanding that simple fact of advertising, one must be very careful to evaluate the data and the source for it. While I believe there may be a certain measure of equality between the two systems - depending on the application and many other factors - I would still buy another PC over the Mac. Then again, I'm reallya low-end user and all the bells and whistles are of only marginal interest to me anyway. I agree with Chris that when the smoke clears it seems to be a personal preference and apparently once the decision is made to go with either the PC or the Macintosh there seems to be a real need to justify that choice. I understand that and I see a lot of it in the posts here. No one wants to be wrong. I empathize. On subjective issues such as politics or religion, that's possible but with issues based on hard data such as computer performance it becomes difficult to escape conclusions - except that so much of the data is skewed by slight changes in the comparisons. As Kell said, his stock '87 5.0 may have a better 60-ft time than Sky's Mustang (due to putting down less power) but that doesn't mean it can beat Sky's Mustang in the quarter. One test doesn't determine the total usefullness and value of a computer product. I'm not picking a winner but I've been educated here and for my next PC purchase (a few years away, at least) I may well contact some of you guys for up-to-date info and advice (along with Dan McClain, who advised me on my last PC buy). It was fun for us bystanders and I'm leaving the thread open for any further comments but please avoid name-calling. It doesn't enhance anyone's argument and it takes down the tone of the discussion where it unfortunately does just become more about egos than information. I prefer information, especially on technecial issues. I suspect most members who care enough to read the thread feel the same way. That said; thanks to all for the effort - and the information. Kell; good to see you back, even if you are at variance with another prolific member. Keeps the board interesting. 'Don't be a stranger'.

08-26-2002, 08:13 PM	#67
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Hey Chris, how fast is your G4? Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

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08-25-2002, 07:14 PM	#61
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Okay, you're best suited to answering car questions Chris. Keep out of the computer world until you get a clue. The Mac is setup to execute processes in less steps than a P4. It's true. Only a P4 executes 3 times as many tasks at once. Plus P4's new trace cache allows it to predict processes even before the commands are given with NO delay. Meaning while the Mac is waiting for the next bit of information, the P4 has a constant data stream and is saving 1-2 processes each cycle. Furthermore, since P4 has an insanely high clock speed, it processes each cycle faster than the G4. You seriously need to read about some of this stuff before you run your mouth off. I know you don't play games... with anybody, because your computer can't even run them anymore. Skyler and I have both asked how your junky little 233 was able to beat a 1.0GHz PC AND I PROVIDED BENCHMARKS to prove what you were saying was completely and utterly ridiculous. I looked at the two benchmarks or so the Apple site had on it. Unlike you, I actually took your arguments into consideration. Then I came back with why they were so flawed. In memory testing, Apple was comparing Mac SDRAM vs PC SDRAM, which is great, if you're doing a comparison on 3 year old PIII. The P4 doesn't use SDRAM. Your processor benchmark didn't show a P4. The encoding benchmark was a farse. Like I stated before, and I have to re-state again. It was run on a "codec." Do you even know what that means? They ran the benchmark on a piece of a program that the Mac was specifically tailored to be fast on. Yet when the whole program is tested READ THE BENCHMARK LINK POSTED BY SKYLER AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS THREAD. Since you NEVER bothered to read the BENCHMARKS posted by Skyler, or the BENCHMARKS posted by me, which have full applications running, not just pieces of them. Your benchmarks were pathetic. EXACTLY like saying my near stock 87GT would kill Skyler's Saleen in a race by looking at our 60ft times both cars having street rubber. It's completely and totally skewed, just because my car will probably launch better cause I can get traction. But NO, can't look at the obvious. Can't research anything. Just get all peeved when you're PROVED wrong. Completely, totally, and utterly dead wrong. Take a look at my analysis. It tells exactly why the G4 is inferior to the P4. Mac NEVER did a comparison. Just talked about their chip. Here, http://arstechnica.com/cpu/01q2/p4an...4andg4e-2.html read up on it if you think you can actually follow it. Better yet, read the whole article before you start running your mouth. I see I was wrong several times because I posted examples, and real life experiences. While you were right because you just plain said so... LOL. It's called a debate. Not an argument. Thanks but your magazines are politcally biased, and news media like that are generally hardly experts. The technical information I posted is real comparisons, by real technical people. Oh. One more thing. Learn some modesty. You've been absolutely hosed in this debate. You keep on digging a hole.

08-25-2002, 10:48 PM	#63
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Tone is difficult to tell over the internet, Shadow The only reason you no longer like the thread is it's very sour for the Mac user. I was the first to lightly push a couple buttons, but I think it became pretty obvious who was hot under the collar, and it wasn't me. I'm not super riled up or anything. I enjoy a good debate. You confuse anger with persistance, and well constructed arguments. All to often I find people automatically assume a disagreement must result in hurt feelings and a derogatory argument. The idea I'm all ticked off has been brought up numerous times, on numerous threads. Just because my arguments are overpowering doesn't mean I'm upset. It does get me a little upset when people choose not to debate me, instead arguing, and never giving my research even the credit of taking it into account. I like to have some facts and data when i make my debate. I like to make sure I have my bases covered when I hear my opponents rebuttal (which is why I gave PKRWUD's posting of the Apple owned website it's fair review.) I read those pages, most of them completely unless I knew the information was not relevent. I then dismantled the information and used it to make my position stronger. It took me but minutes because the site's information was actually to my advantage. My main opponent didn't even bother to read the initial posted benchmark link. Apparently he didn't even take the time to look at several more links to information or benchmarks. He simply dismissed it. I took the time to look at his argument, and gave due respect to his position. He dismissed me, got upset, and took his chances that I would not be able to support my position. In fact I was able to support my position extremely well, I think. While at the same time pressing some buttons in the hopes he would research the information we both have access to to support his position better. It never happened. Do I consider it time lost? Nope. I think the debate has given a large group of people the ability to learn about the advantages of a platform I consider superior. PKRWUD mentioned earlier that I could sell ice to an Eskimo. He's right. If I believed in the product I was selling, which requires a good deal of information for me to evaluate.