Scary Statistic

[MissBlondie]

> > Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than
> >500 employees and has the following statistics:
> >
> > 29 have been accused of spousal abuse
> >
> > 7 have been arrested for fraud
> >
> > 19 have been accused of writing bad checks
> >
> > 117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
> >
> > 3 have done time for assault
> >
> > 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
> >
> > 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
> >
> > 8 have been arrested for shoplifting
> >
> > 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
> > 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year
> >
> > Can you guess which organization this is?







> > It's the 535 members of the United States Congress.
> > The same group of people that crank out hundreds of new laws each
> >year designed to keep the rest of us in line.

[Ackbar00]

Makes you feel good eh?

[Mr 5 0]

Sorry but this doesn't wash with me for a host of reasons.

First, there is no attribution to these 'statistics' and no date and those facts, alone, make the information suspect, at best. The House of Representatives turns over half it's membership every two years so these numbers could refer to a lot of now long-gone Congressmen. Second, I see a lot of use of the word: 'accused' in these 'statistics'. Well, you can be accused of anything. Were the Congressmen accused in Court, in the press or by someone yelling at them on the street? It doesn't say. Lets move on.

"117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses".

What businesses? Major industry players or a Mon & Pop operation? When? 20 years before they were elected or the year before? Doesn't say, making the 'statistic' rather suspicious.

"21 are currently

(when is 'currently') defendants in lawsuits"

Meaningless. You can be sued for anything by anybody and again, no details. Sued for what? An auto accident or for something more sinister? No details, of course, making the 'statistic' meaningless.

The 'arrested' numbers are interesting (drug charges and DUI) but once more, no details. Was any Representative or Senator actually convicted for any of these crimes, drug-related or otherwise? Who knows? No details are given, of course.

3 have 'done time'. Who, when and where? 25 years ago a 10-day sentence for a bar fight or recently and for a longer stretch? Makes a huge difference, obviously, and this piece says nothing about when and for how long much less gives us any details or names.

"71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit"

Really? It's easy to mess up your credit and this statistic tells us nothing as to why '71' cannot qualify for a credit card.

Look, I'm certainly no fan of Congress and some of it's members are idiots and frauds, maybe even criminals in some sense, granted, but this is simply a smear piece with no specifics, no details and most of all, no names rendering it mostly useless and frankly unfair to members of Congress. It might be true that some past and even current members are not credit-worthy, have been sued and maybe even arrested for something or other, once.

"America", Mark Twain once said,"is a nation without a distinct criminal class - with the possible exception of Congress." He was probably right then and that may still be right now but this kind of broad-brush attack is unfounded and far too full of holes, including the lack of a date and names, to be anything less than useless.

It's not scary but it is a bit unfair and undocumented, for the most part. Fun to read but I have to dismiss it as unsupported by facts and documentation and thus, while probably partly true, not useful or anything I would use to make a point with.

[MissBlondie]

HAHAHA Well ya know that's me posting useless gibberish...

(I think you took that waaaaaaay too seriously!) Lighten up, don't want ya to have a stroke postin' on MW, then Dan would be liable and he would be sad and mad which would make me sad and then it'd just be a BIG mess. hahaha okay I'm done now

[stng87]

Originally posted by MissBlondie
HAHAHA Well ya know that's me posting useless gibberish...

(I think you took that waaaaaaay too seriously!) Lighten up, don't want ya to have a stroke postin' on MW, then Dan would be liable and he would be sad and mad which would make me sad and then it'd just be a BIG mess. hahaha okay I'm done now

I just love your icon

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by MissBlondie

HAHAHA Well ya know that's me posting useless gibberish...

(I think you took that waaaaaaay too seriously!) Lighten up, don't want ya to have a stroke postin' on MW, then Dan would be liable and he would be sad and mad which would make me sad and then it'd just be a BIG mess. hahaha okay I'm done now

I'm plenty light Miss Blondie and I didn't mean to rain on your parade (sorry if it appeared that way) but when you post something that makes serious, broad charges against our U.S. congressmen and women with no attribution and no real proof I have to point that out - although I know you meant no harm. Yeah, I do take this kind of thing seriously but not to the point of having a stroke so neither you or Dan have to worry. I'm done now, too. 'Bye.

[Rev]

This is a little "off topic" I know. But don't we just love it when Jim Sweeters and Kell Bean pop back in for a brief post or two?

Rev

[StangFlyer]

Oh yeah, it's always interesting when you get those two going... You have to watch out poking policital fun, as Jim takes all policitcal statements to heart.

[Rev]

Yes, very true about Jim. And Kell takes absolutely everything to heart, no matter what, hee,hee.

Rev

[mustangman65_79]

This was found on this site here: urban legands




29 members of Congress have been accused of spousal abuse,
7 have been arrested for fraud,
19 have been accused of writing bad checks,
117 have bankrupted at least two businesses,
3 have been arrested for assault,
71 have credit reports so bad they can't qualify for a credit card,
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges,
8 have been arrested for shoplifting,
21 are current defendants in lawsuits,
And in 1998 alone, 84 were stopped for drunk driving, but released after they claimed Congressional immunity. (from Capitol Hill Blue)

And these are the People who make Laws that We MUST obey?
Your tax dollars at work!



Origins: The 535 men and women (100 Senators and 435 Representatives) who comprise the United States Congress are the core of our democratic system -- the people we elect (and pay) to represent us to our federal government and make the laws that regulate our society. We therefore somewhat unrealistically expect them to be paragons of virtue, selfless public servants dedicated to the task of making our country a better place for everyone, into whose heads the very thought of wrongdoing never intrudes. Congressmen are mere human beings, however, and so some of them exhibit the same flawed behaviors as some of us: they lie, they steal, they cheat on their spouses, they put personal gain ahead of public service, they line their pockets at the expense of those whom they are supposed to serve, etc. None of this should be surprising to anyone but the most naive among us. What is surprising is that so many people willingly circulate the above-cited piece of cheap, inflammatory tripe expecting it to be taken seriously.

No names or dates are mentioned, of course, so trying to match individuals with the vague charges levelled in this text would be a fruitless task (especially since the composition of Congress changes at least every two years, and the piece is undated). In any case that effort would be pointless, for this article is nothing more than a cheap smear: no one in it is cited as actually having done something wrong, but merely of having been "arrested" or "accused," or being a "defendant," or having been "stopped." Isn't our system supposed to be based upon the presumption that a person is innocent until proved guilty?

One can be arrested without being convicted of a crime (or even being charged with one), so the mere mention of an arrest with no other detail is meaningless. And when did these alleged arrests of Congressmen occur? While the arrestees were serving in Congress? While they were running for office? Before they became politicians? When they were juveniles? Thirty-two arrests and no convictions should probably make us more concerned about problems with our law enforcement and legal systems than it should about the people who make up Congress.

The claims that numerous Congressmen have been "accused" of various wrongdoings is even more specious. "Accused"? By whom? Journalists? Jealous rivals? Bitter ex-spouses? Childhood enemies? Muckrakers? Gossip mongers? I suspect that every single member of Congress has been "accused" of something bad at one time or another. By what standards does an accusation become "serious" or "official" enough to merit inclusion in this list?

Even the entries that contain some marginal detail are too vague to be relevant. We're told than 117 Congressmen "have bankrupted at least two businesses." What does that mean? Were all 117 personally and solely responsible for driving thriving businesses into the ground, or were they merely nominal board members of companies that went belly up? Were these businesses large companies, or the equivalent of mom-and-pop shops run out of someone's home? More importantly, is failing at business in today's volatile business environment supposed to be considered a moral failure as well as an economic one? Is being a successful businessman a prerequisite for being a legislator, or is it a sign or moral turpitude that should automatically disqualify one from office?

21 Congressmen "are current defendants in lawsuits"? What kinds of lawsuits? What are the merits of these lawsuits? Are these Congressmen supposedly being sued for infractions such as breach of contract, or merely because some cranky neighbors don't like they way they painted their houses?

71 "have credit reports so bad they can't qualify for a credit card"? Heck, a single late payment can ruin your credit report these days, assuming your spotless rating hasn't already been done in by completely erroneous information mistakenly placed on your record by a credit reporting agency. And despite common public perception, Congressmen incur some considerable financial obligations as part of their jobs without receiving tremendously large salaries in return, so if some of them had trouble making ends meets, that wouldn't make them much different than many of us.

84 Congressmen "were stopped for drunk driving, but released after they claimed Congressional immunity." Again, being "stopped" is in itself no indication of wrongdoing, and the Constitution (Article I, Section 6) gives Congressmen privilege against arrest while Congress is in session (in order to prevent others from using the power of law enforcement to intimidate them). Although protecting members of Congress against traffic tickets may not be exactly what the Founding Fathers had in mind when then crafted Article I, how many of us would disdain a constitutional protection to avoid trouble with the law? Would any one of us, even if he were guilty of a crime, not challenge an unwarranted search of his home performed in violation of the Fourth Amendment? I doubt many of us would stand on niceties if we had "Get Out of Jail Free" cards we could play, either.

All that said, this list wasn't made up out of whole cloth. The information was taken from a series of articles that appeared in an on-line publication called Capitol Hill Blue (whose motto is "Because nobody's life, liberty or property is safe while Congress is in session . . .") in August 1999, and gained widespread currency when a brief summary (stripped of what little supporting evidence the articles had in the first place) was irresponsibly run in a syndicated weird news column with no clue as to where the reader might find the source material on which it was based.

What appears in the original Capitol Hill Blue articles doesn't exactly validate the list by any responsible journalistic standards. The series includes lengthy articles about four of Congress' worst offenders, a screed about how Congressmen have "a long tradition of corruption and ambivalence," and a heap of vague innuendo. We're told that "117 members of the House and Senate have run at least two businesses each that went bankrupt, often leaving business partners and creditors holding the bag," but no detail about who these members were, the nature of the businesses that failed, why the businesses failed, or who was left "holding the bag" (and for how much). We're informed that "seventy-one of them have credit reports so bad they can't get an American Express card," but we're provided with no details about whom or why. Have these people been kiting checks, did they absent-mindedly make a few late credit card payments, or were they innocent victims of credit reporting agency screw-ups? And since when is not qualifying for an American Express card the standard by which "bad credit" is judged? I probably couldn't qualify for an AmEx card because I don't have sufficient income. Does that mean I have "bad credit" unquestionably caused by personal fiscal irresponsibility?

Most everything found in the Capitol Hill Blue articles continues in this vein. "Twenty-nine members of Congress have been accused of spousal abuse in either criminal or civil proceedings," it says. Well, at least we know the "accusations" were made in the context of court cases, but they remain nothing more than accusations nonetheless. Were any Congressmen actually convicted of spousal abuse, or did any of them have to pay civil damages because of their abusive behavior towards their spouses? You won't find out from Capitol Hill Blue. "Twenty-one are current defendants in various lawsuits, ranging from bad debts, disputes with business partners or other civil matters." Is this really supposed to have any significance in a society where people can and do sue at the drop of a hat, often for the most frivolous of reasons? How about telling us who was successfully sued, and why? That effort appears to be beyond the ability (or the inclination) of Capitol Hill Blue staff. Why ruin a good story with pesky facts, after all?

As we mentioned at the outset, members of Congress are human beings just like the rest of us, and thus they're subject to the same foibles as everyone else. This doesn't mean that we should meekly accept the wrongdoings of some of them as par for the course or turn a blind eye when they break the law, but neither does it mean they aren't entitled to the same considerations and protections as the rest of us -- including the right to be tried in a court of law rather than a court of public opinion. Many of our Congressional representatives are in fact dedicated, hard-working public servants, and tarring them all with the same brush of anonymous, vague accusation does no one any good.

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" the adage goes. Save your efforts for rooting out those who truly breach the public trust instead of wasting time and energy in smearing an institution and everyone who comprises it by passing this cheap bit of scandal-mongering netlore along.

Last updated: 2 January 2000


Sources:
Capitol Hill Blue. "Rep. Corrine Brown and Her Long Trail of Lies, Deceit and Unpaid Bills."
16 August 1999.

Capitol Hill Blue. "Virginia's Bombastic Congressman Jim Moran: 'I like to hit people.'"
17 August 1999.

Capitol Hill Blue. "After Promising Accountability, Speaker Newt Gingrich Took Care of His Own."
18 August 1999.

Capitol Hill Blue. "Sen. Robert Byrd: Invoking an Ancient Rule to Avoid a Modern Law."
19 August 1999.

Capitol Hill Blue. "A Long Tradition of Corruption and Ambivalence."
20 August 1999.

[lx5091]

missblondie, for what it's worth....I got a kick out of reading the list.

I don't care if it's true or not, it's entertainment....I don't think anyone is going to read her post and go hunt down congressmen! I've never been arrested for anything! I've never done anything wrong legally besides some speeding on the highway(where there are no children trying to cross the street)! And I don't drink...so I'm never going to kill anyone because I decided to drive my car after I've had a drink.

I'm still a very fun person to be around and do lot's of fun stuff.....I'd also never run for a public office because I wouldn't want to speak for anyone! Just myself. Anybody that thinks they know what's good for anyone else HAS SOME SERIOUS PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS!

And that's why I was entertained when reading missblondies list!

[mustangman65_79]

Ya know, I read lx5091's post, and realized that I didn't even say anything in my own post. I wasn't coming down on her, I too thought it was funny the first time I heard it. But as I was reading it this time, the guy next to me pointed out the site above which has urban legands on it and they explain it. I was mainly trying to show the site off to everyone, and didn't realize that it looked like I was coming down on MissBlondie. I hope that she continues to post jokes, for that I look forward to them.

[Rice Hunter]

Sure, it's fun to make fun of our government from time to time, but I think it would be even more fun to make fun of say France, Germany, Iraq, etc... but then again, that may be too easy.

*If you are French, German, or Iraqi, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings... well, if you're Iraqi, yeah, I probably did *

[red82gt]

I'm Canadian so I got a good laugh out of it. After all the premier of my province (basically the same as a Governor) got busted in Hawaii for a DUI and blew a .152 BAC! Damn politicians make good criminals.

[MissBlondie]

Originally posted by mustangman65_79
didn't realize that it looked like I was coming down on MissBlondie. I hope that she continues to post jokes, for that I look forward to them.

NO I'm scared now and may never return! I'm sure I would be greatly missed.

[Miss Mischief]

This Man
Lost His store Went bankrupt not once But twice
Failed to pass the Bar 3 times
Failed In His First law Practices
Lost His First wife to TB

.....Anyone......

Abreham Lincon

My stats Can be wrong But Ive seen them Time and time again Listing this presdents Failers Then Telling you to Try try again. This Is the man who Brought a divided nation back together again.