So... It's come to this...

[Hammer]

PARIS — The French, German and Russian foreign ministers said Wednesday that their governments would "not allow" passage of a U.N. resolution authorizing war against Iraq.

"We will not allow a resolution to pass that authorizes resorting to force," French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin said at a press conference in Paris. "Russian and France, as permanent members of the Security Council, will assume their full responsibilities on this point."

In many ways, I'm glad this Iraq situation has gone the way it has. It has proven to me that absolutely EVERYTHING we have done for the world in general (Defense from Communism, Humanitarian Aid, Freedom of millions from despotic rulers to name a few) means absolutely nothing to most of the world population. We have learned who are true friends are and who just likes the American dollar.

After Iraq is liberated, and tons of hidden WMD are destroyed. You will see a different world and an enlightened American populous. We now know where we stand with many of our former allies, and in my opinion many billions af dollars of aid should come home to the citizens of America.

For many years we were the ONLY nation to even TRY to think about the needs of other nations, and when it came time for the nations of the world to help remove a Stalinist dictator from power. Those nations thought of their own interests (and money) instead of the greater good.
In effect, they are backing an evil dictator proven to kill women and children for weapons tests and opposing a government that has helped the world in thousands of ways just because they perceive that it isn't in their own interests.

Thanks for the wake up call France and Germany, we appreciate your input. Now sit down and watch the UN become insignificant from its own incompetance of enforcing its own 18 resolutions.

As always, we will lead the way and bear the cost in money and lives.... this time however, you're on your own. Hasta la vista...

[Dark_5.0]

In all honesty who cares what France and Germany think. They are all just a bunch of pansies.

Just be glad that there isnt a liberal in office.

[Hethj7]

The more I hear, the more I agree with you. It seem the U.S. is always there to help, always rebuilding, and always forgiving debt. Yet, in our time of need we get nothing back. Do any of these countries realize that the resolutions being broken were made by the U.N. after the first time we were in Iraq? And that this was the same way Hitler became so powerful. He kept taking a little at a time and soon we were in a world war. Not to say this is the same with Iraq, but it is somewhat similar. I am not for war if it can be avoided, but it seems Iraq has had its chances. I know we have many proud service men and women ready to go in there and take care of business. I thank each of them for that!

On kind of a related note, did anyone see the new commercial for Hardees ( I think is was them). It starts off by saying something about several wars France has been in and surrendered, then at the end says "Don't be a chicken, eat one!" Everyone at my place thought it was great. I may go buy a chicken sandwich now !

[Crazy Horse GT]

damn the french, i have no use for them, chicken sh--- , i dont understand germany though, well maybe i have a 5 gallon german gas can, i picked up in iraq, screw russia. this should have ended 12 years ago.

[MEDIK418]

Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordian. . . .Donald Rumsfeldt

How much you wanna bet a lot of the WMD we find will have made in ____________ (insert "France" or "Germany") stamped all over them?

[mustangman65_79]

Don't for get all the Russian suitcase nukes at disappeared, I'm sure they are in Iraq.

Our main supporters are Spain and Great Britain. Spain caught me off guard, but, more the merrier.

[Rice Hunter]

I was walking with a friend wearing his air force uniform... he got so many dirty looks There are so many people that believe in the world's 'humanity', yet have never experienced life outside the US Those college kids protesting: I bet more than half don't know the way other people of the world feel about US and their enemies and are protesting on idealism and not reality

[TruBluePony]

These college kids don't have a clue because this liberal garbage is pumped into their heads everyday by professors who have a problem with history and current events when it doesn't match their own beliefs.

As far as Germany and France i also believe we are going to find WMD with their fingerprints all over them. And you need to think, do we really need them????

On a humurous note did anybody else happen to catch Fox News Sunday in the morning when they were talking about the human shields leaving? They had that red bar at the bottom and it said "Scared Shields" You gotta love Fox News.

[302 LX Eric]

Originally posted by TruBluePony
On a humurous note did anybody else happen to catch Fox News Sunday in the morning when they were talking about the human shields leaving? They had that red bar at the bottom and it said "Scared Shields" You gotta love Fox News.

They left because they 'felt they were in harms way...too dangerous for them to stay'. What a bunch of idiots.

France, Germany and Russia need to take there head out of their asses and wake up to the real, clear and present danger that Iraq poses.

What's more is that other tyrantistic leaders now very clearly see that the U.N. is rapidly becoming a meaningless organization that bickers until it's blue in the face all while accomplishing next to nothing. The U.N. passes resolutions that say one thing and then they do something different. It's analogous to a parent who threatens to take away TV privileges if their kids don't behave and then they never follow through with the punishment: The kids quickly learn that they can in fact get away with misbehaving, or lying, or whatever. There are no, or little, repercussions for their actions.

The most ironic item I find in this whole debacle is the fact that Iraq declared that they had no WMD or other 'banned' missles, etc....and now they are blowing up or dismanteling the very items they swore they didn't have? What's next, a few containers of VX nerve gas? At the current rate they are 'destroying' weapons, it would be 100 years before all the current weapons are destroyed. Add to that the fact that Saddam most likey has secret underground operations that are continuing to build/design more WMDs and we would be in a worse situation down the road.

I have to say that it really does amaze me that France and Germany, most especially, do not see the striking similarities between the current situation with Saddam and Hitler in WWII. Yes, it's a vastly different world and time, but it boils down to the same equation: A tyrant leader who will stop at nothing to stay in power, amassing WMD, tourturing, execution and the like of his own people, a society so scared to say anything in the least bit negative about the government or Saddam that they fear for their very lives and the lives of their family members, the list goes on and on.

As for the anti-war crowd: The issue of stability in the Middle East has become a 'crutch' to many who oppose war. Many feel that war will upset the stability (a loosely used term here) of Iraq and it's neighbors and will only harbor more ill will towards America. While this may be true in the short term, I think we have to look long term. First, the 'stability' in the Middle East itself is ironic. The liberation of Iraq and the process of establishing a somewhat sound democratic Iraqi government will not be easy and will not be quick. But, the alternative, in my view, is much worse.

E

[silver_pilate]

Good point, Eric. I agree completely.

Hell, when was the last time anyone associated the Middle East with "stability?" Sheesh. That place has always been turned on end. How does removing a key leader in the instability of the Middle East decrease its stability? Some people are just plain stupid.

I get thouroughly pissed with foreign relations at times. Many people thought Clinton was a great master of foreign relations. However, all I can see that he ever did was sell nuclear secrets to China. He made a big fuss about Israel and Palestine, but nothing ever came of all his efforts. All he did was cave to international pressure. That's a great way to get your country looked at as someone's bit**. Is that what we want America to become? A door-mat for other countries? Not me.

Bush has done a fine job, IMHO. He came into office, admitidly not being an expert at foreign relations, but he has stood for his and America's principles and interests. Guess what world...you don't always get what you want. It's time for the United States to stop cowing to others and get something done. Heth, you're exactly right. That is how Hitler came to power. The world simply chose to look the other way (much as Clinton did after the embarrassing failure of Operation Desert Fox). If we keep looking the other way, we're not going to see the .50 Desert Eagle rapidly approaching the side of our head with a madman on the trigger.

--nathan

[lx5091]

I agree with what many of you have said....

Clinton was a knob who made himself seem like the nicest guy in the world to other leaders so the next guy to step in as President of the United States would look like an *******. I agree the only thing he ever did in office was get his ****** serviced and sell secrets to China!

My in-laws said that we shouldn't go to war...that they don't support Saddam, but how would you feel if another country was trying to take away your means to defend yourself! I said WTF! because of their past actions they signed saying they would not create WMD's. END OF STORY

Saddam is telling the UN he will disarm and meanwhile telling his people that America must be punished-- WTF! this guy needs to be assassinated and that's it.

as for fellow americans giving our servicemen dirty looks, they should be smacked around! who is going to protect them when we are attacked again! who rescues them when there's a national disaster?!

I am disappointed that I was PDQ'd from joining the Marines a few years ago...the current events today make me wish I could join more than I wanted to then!

As for France, Germany and Russia.....they can suck our asses.....it's one thing to not want to be involved, it's another to try and prevent others from doing what's right!

[Ackbar00]

I love you guys! It is hard watching the news and seeing these **** ups who have no idea what america is. Just yesterday I read a story about 2 brothers in the army, 1 is in Kuwait and the other is refusing the fight. Now just 1 question.... WHY THE **** DID YOU JOIN THE ARMY!!! And like you said seeing college's protesting war and giving service people dirty looks. I swear, if saw that happin, I would go to jail ******* someone up! These "kids" have no idea what Saddam is capable of. They are just worried about watching Saddam's interview with Dan Rather(******* Commi pig). But all that aside, Iraq does not bother me(just the people protesting do) its North Korea that scares me. Then to see the South Korean youth having ant-iamerican protest. Mabey they forgot 50,000 service men died saving their ******* country. But I guess that means nothing to them as long as we keep suppling them with NSYNC CD's. I sweer, this place is getting Fed-Ex'd straight to hell.

[Ackbar00]

Oh yeah, Long live America and keep Mustang rolling of the assembly line!

[Ackbar00]

And I like to give a special Fuuck you to....

1. France
2. Germany (Should have finished the job in 1945)
3. GAGT Forum
4. Anti-American Protesters
5. Terrorist
6. Dial-Up Internet Connections
7. Russia
8. People who join the military just for free college
9. Bill Clinton
10. SBC - For laying me off 2 weeks before Christmas!

[Hammer]

I love you guys! It is hard watching the news and seeing these **** ups who have no idea what america is.

High school and college kids have absolutely no clue how the real world works. And in many cases, the professors are just as clueless. Its easy to see why as many of them haven't had a REAL job their entire lives. Its easy to make determinations on anything from other people to whole nations if its not YOUR *** on the line... Just give me a 20 hour work week, tenure, and a cute college chicky, and you have the formula for a leftist who has no idea of real life.

As far as someone who joins the armed services and then REFUSES to fight. That is going against the Uniformed Code Of Military Justice, and that ****** should be charged with every regulation you can find. How the heck does someone go to MEPS, take the physical, sign the paperwork, and then take the oath... Then the time comes to fulfill the lawful orders of the commander in chief and your appointed superiors and you say your not going to fight? Back in the 1800s Navy, you'd be drawn and quartered and that would be the end of it. If you want to join the service just for the GI Bill money, you need to look somewhere else. Because as a citizen and a veteran, I don't want you in my armed forces. Shut the hell up and flip burgers for your tuition....

As far as South Korea is concerned, I can safely say that even the South Koreans don't want us there... Fine... We need to pull out. Everyone... Pull all air and sea cover away from South Korea.

It will take the DPRK about 4 days to take a successful democratic state and turn it into a copy of North Korea's communist starvation\disease-prone paradise.

I'm totally for bringing all our assets to Japan and stare down those a-holes from there.... At least we are respected as allies in Japan....

All in all, the world is about to have a very rude awakening, as despite what you see on TV, most Americans are just sick and tired of covering for everyone and getting zilch in return.

You want to be our friends and allies? Fine, act like it.
If you can't deal with that, don't expect any help from the good ol' US of A.

We're done....

[Hethj7]

Originally posted by Hammer
High school and college kids have absolutely no clue how the real world works. And in many cases, the professors are just as clueless. Its easy to see why as many of them haven't had a REAL job their entire lives. Its easy to make determinations on anything from other people to whole nations if its not YOUR *** on the line... Just give me a 20 hour work week, tenure, and a cute college chicky, and you have the formula for a leftist who has no idea of real life.

Easy there buddy ! Don't stereotype all high school and college kids into the same group saying we have no clue how the real world works. The protestors are a very, very, small minority of the college aged group. I am 23 and most people I know my age are not out protesting the war. My generation may not have lived through many of the hardships that previous generations have, but we still have pride in the U.S. and most of us do have some idea as to world matters.

Also remember that our military is made up of many of these college and high school kids. I would say that a good majority of our military is between the ages of 18-26. There are many people my age that "get it" and know that action must be taken, quite possibly in the form of war.

On those same campuses that you see protestors, I also see kids that aren't showing up at class now. Why? They are being called up to active duty and aren't on campus anymore. While I may not be over there fighting a war, it starts to hit home as you see people you know ship out.

Also, as to professors not ever having real jobs. Well, someone has to teach and I don't think their job is any less real than the next guy's. Many of the advancements made in this world, inlcuding those that help our military, are made on university campuses. Also, I cannot think of a single one of my professors that hasn't been out in the "real world" with a job, before returning to teach. Maybe it is not that case at small schools, but at a large university like Mizzou (where I am at), nearly every professor on campus holds a PhD and has had work experience in their field. Many of them have also travelled to many different nations, doing work with foreign governments and businesses. Many of them are also from other countries. Heck, in my engineering department there are plenty of professors from Pakistan, India, etc. They grew up and lived in other parts of the world. When speaking with them, they seem to have a veiw of the world that many do not.....and they support the U.S. They know the troubles in their home regions; they have lived through many of them.

Okay, I will quit ranting now.

[Hammer]

Okay, I will quit ranting now.

Hehe, no problem...

As far as stereotyping... I'm stereotyping the specific types of students that attend the "peace" marches, not the ones that are actually interested in furthering their education.

Back when I was in high school, you got punished for walking out of class. There is a time and a place for these things, and with minors the time and place for things such as that is not during school hours (of which I fund).

I never thought that ALL students and ALL professors are left-wing nuts.... I just can't preface every statement with: Overlooking the exceptions...

Now as far as college is concerned, the universities have ALWAYS been a hot-bed of socialism. I'm not saying that every student and professor is a socialist, but many colleges are breeding grounds for these groups.

And as far as professors are concerned, it is well known that certain segments of academia harbour alternative "views", with many of the believers spouting this stuff to college attendees. A PHD does not make someone worldly. A college degree does not give someone "common" sense. I have 2 family members who have doctorates and are tenured at their respective Universities. And they are the first to tell me that while there are some challenges, it certainly beats "working" for a living. While I care a lot for my family, both of these men have spent an entire 6 years put together at "real" 9-5 jobs. The men are in their 40s and have spent 90% of their lives in one form of Academia or another. While I have no personal problem with that, you can't tell me that fact is not going to "color" someone's opinions about the world and how it runs.

In my opinion, this "colored" reality that SOME academics spew is just plain wrong. I don't care how many PHDs you have, if something coming out of your mouth sounds like a bunch of bull crap, it very well may be something coming out of the back end of a bovine.

As far as young people in general are concerned.... I know darn well that there are MANY views among young people... not just what they show on CNN. So don't presume that I judge them. And I know DARN well that that a good majority of our military is between the ages of 18-26. (I was between those ages when I fought during the Gulf War).

BUT....

In general, there are BIG differences between the realities of an 18 year old and a 40 year old. They look at the world and the people around them differently.

I'm sorry, but most 18-23 year olds do not have the experience to REALLY know how things work in this world. Most 18-23 year olds have not yet had to stare death in the face (although many of them will soon get that experience).

Until someone has been on this planet for a few orbits, in my opinion, they may not see things for what they really are.

Personally, many of the things I believed were GOSPEL at 21 I know as absolute crap in my 30s. Experience and an open mind is key...

That's why I snicker when 15 year old kids yell "Books Not War" as they skip classes while yelling it....

Children should always have a voice, but many times it is misinformed.

College folks are adults in my opinion, able to make their own decisions. For many of us, including myself, those decisions and views are often wrong during those years. We calculate what we did right and what we screwed up during the young adult years. Hence gaining experience. We all go through it. I believe the best lessons are taught when it stings us in the rear. The good lessons are always learned the hard way. Some learn faster than others. And not all of us come to the same conclusion....

Just my opinion....

[Hethj7]

Hammer - I agree with what you are saying. I guess we both agree that regardless of age, education, or experiences, people will have different views. I should have known that you weren't stereotyping everyone.

I realize a PhD doesn't mean you know everything and I know that not all professors are left wing (or right wing for that matter). I also know that views change as you grow older and gain more experience. I know my views on many things have changed since high school, and I am sure the next ten years of my life will bring more change.

I think we both pretty much think the same things here. I just didn't want to be lumped into any one "group" after your post. I know it is hard to preface everything you say when on an internet message board and I guess I just took what you typed as exactly what you meant. Sorry. Looks like it was just a little misunderstanding there. Everything is cool now !

[mustangman65_79]

I grew up in t avery outspokken military family. I was one of the few in high school who could see outside the box on military actions. Durring high school, and even middle school, my best subject was history. WWII was my fav part durring history. When ever I got to that in high school, I was like the nerd for a few days. Everything the teacher tried to teach us about that, I would always add something to it.

When I heard about protesters durring the gulf war, I was outraged! How can these ppl protest when others are being hurt.

When I hear about protesters now, I want nothing more but to take my Bronco(if it ran) and just go blazing through all these dumb shits! Here, they know nothing about the outside world, but yet they protest it? Do they even know what they are protesting?

It's just like Vietnam War. PPl protesting, when others are dying in the war. My Dad told me the story about everything in the day, and it still makes me very angry.

I want so bad, to go out to one of these, hit one of them, and say, "Wait, u can't hit me back, this is what your protesting against!"

[silver_pilate]

Well, I lost my naivety as to how the world works in highschool (except for how women work...I still struggle in that area ).

There are a lot of college folk out there who get it and, like me, worked 2 jobs (sometimes 3) all through college. However, as is always the case, the liberal left tends to be more outspoken. People who are happy with the way things are going aren't going to be motivated to stand up and speak without cause.

However, those disillusioned few (here and abroad) that think Saddam plays with Barbies instead of VX nerve agent always have to open their yappers and scream about it.

--nathan