Partial victory in traffic court today

82 GT · 09-02-2003, 03:57 PM

About a month ago I posted that I got a ticket with the new Robic(stopwatch) system.
I was measured going 53 in a 35 mph zone between a 195 ft. distance.

I presented the judge with the math formula that's used to calculate vehical speed between two points.
I argued that a .5 second delay was reasonable for a human and showed how much of a delay affects calculations.
The officer claimed that since he "anticipates" approaching cars, his accuracy is right on the money with no delay......LOL.
In my closing argument, I stated the fact that no human can have perfect reaction even in anticipation or not and that a .5 second delay was reasonable.

The judge said" I will give you the benefit of the doubt" and reduced my ticket to 45 in a 35 zone.
I did try to mention earlier that human error is introduced twice but I don't think the judge was going to give me a full second of error.
When I left the courtroom, the officer said that I did some very nice research and was actually impressed.

I feel it's still a victory for me because I was positive that I was not going almost 55 mph that day.
In all honesty, I might have been going 45 mph but there was no way in hell I was doing 55
I kind of feel that the judge should have thrown the whole thing out since I proved "reasonable doubt" and that there was no way to be sure exactly how fast I was going but I'll settle with his decision I guess. I can appeal but I doubt any other judge will give me that full second delay I was looking for which would have further reduced my speed to 38 mph.

silver_pilate · 09-02-2003, 05:04 PM

Good job. I would expect an error of at least 1/2 a second, and likely a good bit more than that. Just look at track and field or drag racing. If you react faster than 0.5 seconds from the gun or the green, it's considered a false start or a red-light. Supposedly, you're not suppose to be able to react that fast.

--nathan

Fox Body · 09-02-2003, 10:08 PM

Woooo hoooo! Yeah! Glad for ya man. That verdict was at least a good step toward the right direction. Diligence always pays off.

Fawkes · 09-02-2003, 10:53 PM

Good job!!!

As for the "reasonable doubt" thing, I don't know where you live, but here in Washington it doesn't work that way. Reasonable doubt works in criminal court, but here they've seperated driving infractions to be in their own little world.

In traffic court, at least here, you have to prove 51% (not sure how they measure that) of doubt. Bottom line is that the best way to beat a traffic infraction is to hire a lawyer. It may cost you $200-300, but if/when you beat it, it is not reflected on your driving record, ie. it won't reflect on your insurance or your driving record.

RBatson · 09-03-2003, 09:17 AM

Heeh!! Good Job!! You must have presented yourself very well to get 8 reduced, I'm sure your insurance will be less than if you got stuck with the 18 over the limit. Its a damn shame the system is what it is, someone can judge you so easily and not think twice about it. The indifference some with authority have and the abuse of said authority... there was a college study where some were put in... hmm, another story(sorry)... good job bro!

CobraJet428 · 09-03-2003, 10:22 AM

That will help on your insurance that the ticket has been lowered.
I lucked out alot from 1995-98..I was stopped 7 times and warned each time. I haven't been that lucky since, but I have gone 15 months without being pulled over.

BLOCKER · 09-07-2003, 07:55 PM

congrats!

ac97gt · 09-07-2003, 10:17 PM

every time i see this, it just sounds so corrupt. screw this system, stick to radar. you cant fake radar (at least not as easily). you ask to see the gun, and the only way it can read higher than he said is if something in the area was moving that fast. this watch thing, he could say you were doing 455mph in a 25mph zone just by clicking and waiting a few seconds.... then you ask him to see it, and sure enough, its gonna say 455mph. he can pick any speed out of the air and make it happen. do you trust half the cops out there? i dont.

good job on the fight though. i think if more people were like you, we could shut this system down. stick to accuracy and eliminate reasonable doubt.

erl2589 · 09-07-2003, 11:23 PM

Dude...

At the track we can cut .450 or so lights all day long by anticipating the green.Yellow, yellow, yellow, green. That means we're accurate within 5/100 of a second. Sounds like you sold that judge some serious BS. GOOD JOB!!!

rwhite65 · 09-10-2003, 02:41 AM

that was some good arguments to take to the judge. Here in IL though, doesn't matter if u disagree on how excessive the speed was over the limit, they would not throw it out...cause that would still be speeding. The only way it would matter would be if the officer said you were more than 20 over the posted limit....higher fine then.
Ryan

09-02-2003, 03:57 PM	#1
82 GT Import Slayer Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 2,241	Partial victory in traffic court today About a month ago I posted that I got a ticket with the new Robic(stopwatch) system. I was measured going 53 in a 35 mph zone between a 195 ft. distance. I presented the judge with the math formula that's used to calculate vehical speed between two points. I argued that a .5 second delay was reasonable for a human and showed how much of a delay affects calculations. The officer claimed that since he "anticipates" approaching cars, his accuracy is right on the money with no delay......LOL. In my closing argument, I stated the fact that no human can have perfect reaction even in anticipation or not and that a .5 second delay was reasonable. The judge said" I will give you the benefit of the doubt" and reduced my ticket to 45 in a 35 zone. I did try to mention earlier that human error is introduced twice but I don't think the judge was going to give me a full second of error. When I left the courtroom, the officer said that I did some very nice research and was actually impressed. I feel it's still a victory for me because I was positive that I was not going almost 55 mph that day. In all honesty, I might have been going 45 mph but there was no way in hell I was doing 55 I kind of feel that the judge should have thrown the whole thing out since I proved "reasonable doubt" and that there was no way to be sure exactly how fast I was going but I'll settle with his decision I guess. I can appeal but I doubt any other judge will give me that full second delay I was looking for which would have further reduced my speed to 38 mph. __________________ '82 GT 351W (.060)Comp Cams 274* Extreme Energy cam, ported & polished heads w/ 1.94/1.60 valves 10.3:1 flat top pistons,stealth intake, Mallory dizzy,Holley 750dp carb, BBK shorties,Flowmaster exhaust,C-4 with 3700 stall converter, B&M pro shifter,8.8 rear, 4:10's, subframes, electric fan, powermaster alternator, 4 core radiator.

09-02-2003, 05:04 PM	#2
silver_pilate DURKA DURKA!! Join Date: Sep 1997 Location: Lubbock, TX...(TX panhandle) Posts: 1,418	Good job. I would expect an error of at least 1/2 a second, and likely a good bit more than that. Just look at track and field or drag racing. If you react faster than 0.5 seconds from the gun or the green, it's considered a false start or a red-light. Supposedly, you're not suppose to be able to react that fast. --nathan __________________ '91 GT, Coast 347, 9.5:1 compression, full intake, Wolverine 1087 cam, exhaust, Keith Craft ported Windsor Jr. Irons (235 cfm intake, 195 cfm exhaust), AOD, PI 3500 converter, Lentech valve body, 3.73's (4.10's in the works), and Yokohama ES100's out back. Daily Car: '04 Infiniti G35 Sedan 6MT

09-02-2003, 10:08 PM	#3
Fox Body Mustang Maniac Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: GA, U.S.A Posts: 2,266	Woooo hoooo! Yeah! Glad for ya man. That verdict was at least a good step toward the right direction. Diligence always pays off. __________________ 351W-powered 1979 Ford Mustang Ghia notchback '79 Video @ Idle Stock 5.8L under 4" cowl 'glass hood, C4 w/ Transgo shift kit, Holley 750 cfm, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake; Fluidyne Al radiator, Flexalite 175 electric fan, 1 5/8" MAC shorty headers, FRPP Al driveshaft; S&W 6-point cage; 2.5" Off road H-pipe, 2-chamber Flowmasters, 8.8" Rear w/ 3.55s; Weld wheels (15x6;15x8), Front: 225/60/15, Rear: 275/50/15 Nitto NT 555R Drag Radials; 14 x 4” K&N X-stream air filter. '92 GT (5-speed) Small In Car Video Stock 5.0L, 2-chamber Flowmasters, MAC CAI, Tri-Ax, Al pedals... "Red, thou art my companion. Hasten now your quickened metamorphosis to Green that I may conquer all who dare abide there beside me. May they be left thither behind burnt black." ---Fox Body

09-02-2003, 10:53 PM	#4
Fawkes Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Seattle Posts: 11	Good job!!! As for the "reasonable doubt" thing, I don't know where you live, but here in Washington it doesn't work that way. Reasonable doubt works in criminal court, but here they've seperated driving infractions to be in their own little world. In traffic court, at least here, you have to prove 51% (not sure how they measure that) of doubt. Bottom line is that the best way to beat a traffic infraction is to hire a lawyer. It may cost you $200-300, but if/when you beat it, it is not reflected on your driving record, ie. it won't reflect on your insurance or your driving record. __________________ Todd B. 1980 Firebird Esprit 6.6 Liter 1990 Mustang LX 5.0 - It's hers

09-03-2003, 10:22 AM	#6
CobraJet428 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pickens,SC Posts: 130	Good Job That will help on your insurance that the ticket has been lowered. I lucked out alot from 1995-98..I was stopped 7 times and warned each time. I haven't been that lucky since, but I have gone 15 months without being pulled over. __________________ ....only in a Mustang, Mark Holliday Rice Haters Club Member #237 2007 Vista Blue Mustang GT Convertible w/black top and charcoal interior, 18-in. polished aluminum wheels. 1978 Ford F150 Ranger Longbed, 400M w/automatic and 2 fuel tanks...get the picture? 1993 Mustang GT Dark Blue/Grey 2-tone. Flowmaster Mufflers and blackouts on the headlights. RIP (10/31/99). 1968 Mustang 6 cyl/C4 automatic 1938 Ford Pickup, Flathead V8 (85HP) with granny 4-speed..a restoration work in progress.

09-03-2003, 09:17 AM	#5
RBatson Registered Member Join Date: May 1997 Posts: 3,028	Heeh!! Good Job!! You must have presented yourself very well to get 8 reduced, I'm sure your insurance will be less than if you got stuck with the 18 over the limit. Its a damn shame the system is what it is, someone can judge you so easily and not think twice about it. The indifference some with authority have and the abuse of said authority... there was a college study where some were put in... hmm, another story(sorry)... good job bro!

09-07-2003, 07:55 PM	#7
BLOCKER Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: EDMONTON, Alberta, Canada Posts: 232	congrats! __________________ -1988 MUSTANG COBRA GT (Canadian...eh!) -1987 Mustang LX coupe (2.3L) -1978 Harley Davidson FLH -2008 Harley Davidson Nightster 1200 -2008 Harley Davidson Night Rod Special -1997 Jaguar XK8 Convertable

09-07-2003, 10:17 PM	#8
ac97gt Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Virginia (DC) Posts: 232	every time i see this, it just sounds so corrupt. screw this system, stick to radar. you cant fake radar (at least not as easily). you ask to see the gun, and the only way it can read higher than he said is if something in the area was moving that fast. this watch thing, he could say you were doing 455mph in a 25mph zone just by clicking and waiting a few seconds.... then you ask him to see it, and sure enough, its gonna say 455mph. he can pick any speed out of the air and make it happen. do you trust half the cops out there? i dont. good job on the fight though. i think if more people were like you, we could shut this system down. stick to accuracy and eliminate reasonable doubt. __________________ 1997 Mustang GT "Pacific Green" Flowmasters Bassani X w/cats Steeda Triax K&N and Air Intake Silencer Removed More to come with money! My Ride

09-07-2003, 11:23 PM	#9
erl2589 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Yucaipa, CA, USA Posts: 146	Dude... At the track we can cut .450 or so lights all day long by anticipating the green.Yellow, yellow, yellow, green. That means we're accurate within 5/100 of a second. Sounds like you sold that judge some serious BS. GOOD JOB!!! __________________ 90LX 5.0 5 speed. 3.55's, pulleys, exaust...13.96@98mph at at Pomona. 220rwhp 281tq. BBK springs, Koni Red's.

09-10-2003, 02:41 AM	#10
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	impressed that was some good arguments to take to the judge. Here in IL though, doesn't matter if u disagree on how excessive the speed was over the limit, they would not throw it out...cause that would still be speeding. The only way it would matter would be if the officer said you were more than 20 over the posted limit....higher fine then. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

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