Stupid cops!

[mustangman65_79]

Sometime during the summer of 1984, along Pacific Coast Highway, near Point Mugu Rock, early morning hours:

After being pulled over by a CHP:

Officer: Good morning. May I please see your license and registration?

Me: Sure Officer. Would you hold my beer for a minute?

That led to my second drunk driving arrest. In those days, I received enough tickets to wallpaper a small bathroom. I deserved most of them, but I didn't think so then. I haven't received a traffic ticket for 5 or 6 years now. The difference? I grew up. At least a little bit.

While I know there were at least one or two cops that intentionally had it out for me, there were dozens more who probably saved my life.

Take care,

your too funny chris

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by mustangman65_79
your too funny chris

Yeah, but looks aren't everything!

Take care,
-Chris

[Unit 5302]

Jeb_Bush_2000. I hate to break it to you, but under NO circumstances does a person choosing to pursue a career in power abuse constitute instant respect from me. Cops are nothing more than any other profession to me. No pat on the back every time they do their job. You need to grow up.

elliotness Recent examples point to poor reading and comprehension skills for police officers. Blwn93 did nothing wrong. He was the guy down the thread a ways who was pulled over because the officer thought his exhaust was too loud, even though the mufflers and cats were on the car. I never began to say mustangman didn't do anything wrong.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by elliotness

Doesn't sound like a very good process for screening applicants.

I posted that 1999 Associated Press wire story only because you questioned Unit 5302's veracity. He wasn't lying - was he? Your acknowledgment that he was correct in his original statement that alluded to that case (and that you dismissed out of hand) would be welcomed, I'm sure.

As for hiring processes, it's probably as useful as any other but it made the New London Police Department look rather foolish by rejecting 'too smart' applicants.

I take the position that there are good cops and bad cops and unlike TV, a lot of the lower-rung local cops are on
traffic duty and are the ones the public deals with. As far as 'The Law', well, it's not the law that's the problem but how the law is administered.

The cop pulling you over has many options and can harrass you or simply let you go with a verbal warning - if that. Unfortunately, some cops abuse the power we willingly give them. Most don't, but the average citizen doesn't meet high-ranking officers or detectives, just the patrolman in the squad car. Most cops don't have highly-developed people skills either, and it shows.

Of course, most rich and influential people don't go to jail or even get many traffic tickets that aren't quashed. That's just reality but it grates on the working stiff who may have to lose a valuable day's pay to fight a bogus traffic ticket that the same cop wouldn't give to the local big shot driving a Mercedes-Benz and doing exactly what Joe Sixpack did, like having too much window tint. Folks see this as just the police abusing their authority where they can get away with it. It doesn't sit well.

Another problem a lot of folks have with the local police is that, as Unit mentioned, they don't care much about vandalism to your car, petty thefts from your home or car or other frustrating crimes that the average person encounters, but yet, they can get all excited over tinted glass and exhaust decibles.

Yet the defense is that 'Police can't be everywhere' and 'They have to prioritize crimes to use resources effectively' so pulling over a motorist and issuing tickets for mufflers and tinted glass is a 'priority' but catching thieves who steal your car is hardly looked into, unless they happen to see the stolen car in front of them? Who's kidding whom?

Look, we need laws - including traffic laws - and we certainly need police to enforce those laws, fairly. Not all police do that and the attitude of some is offensive to many.

Personally, I don't have a problem with cops. I don't do dumb things and as I'm white, not a kid, middle-class (no nose-rings or freaky hair) and I treat police with respect when I'm stopped (rare) I don't get into trouble. Granted, if you 'cop a 'tude' with a cop at a traffic stop, you're begging for tickets and worse. That's stupid. Fight the ticket in court if you feel it's bogus but don't try to argue with the cop as you'll lose.

Finally, although I respect a police officer mostly because of the potential power he holds over me, I understand that he may put his life on the line at any time. I do respect that but it doesn't excuse a lot of the harassing things some cops engage in. It doesn't make any police officer immune from criticism, either.

Doctors save lives every day, researchers find cures for disease, mothers love their children and ministers help save souls. So what? They're all subject to criticism.

Being in a dangerous job you volunteered for is admirable but not enough to make you above everyone else. Cops are human, they make mistakes. Unfortunately, a cop that makes a mistake can put you in jail and possibly ruin your life. That is a powerful position to be in and one that we have to respect but also watch the possessors of such power carefully and subject them to criticism when warranted. This thread is doing just that, while understanding that it's all just opinion and of course, we can't arrest you if you disagree.

.

[elliotness]

Originally posted by Unit 5302
[B]Jeb_Bush_2000[/b
elliotness Blwn93 did nothing wrong. He was the guy down the thread a ways who was pulled over because the officer thought his exhaust was too loud, even though the mufflers and cats were on the car. I never began to say mustangman didn't do anything wrong.

Okay,

My post was not in reference to mustangman everyone can see that he was wrong. He did not deny he was wrong.

My post was in response to Blwn93 and his actions to avoid his ticket.

When you tamper with evidence, remove the illegal tint from your car prior to court, you have done something wrong. The act of removing the tint is more egregious than the original violation.

If he Blwn93 made any statement to the court indicating his tint was legal, he perjured himself. That is also wrong.

If he made no statement but led the court to believe that his tint was legal. That is also wrong.

He broke the law again. You must understand that his actions, removing the tint misleading the court, were wrong. *hit they were criminal. So, your argument that he did nothing wrong has a few holes in it.

If you want to say that his actions were justifiable given the trivial nature of his original offense, then say that. Saying that he did "nothing wrong" is just not accurate.

This has been fun, let's try it again sometime.

Elliot

[Unit 5302]

Something that is important to point out is not every officer has his own choice as to what kind of laws he enforces. The chief may get pressure from the mayor to bust more speeders, etc. Still, I think that police officers use prejudice when enforcing the laws. The seemingly aggressive push to target traffic violations is impossible not to see. I truely believe revenue is the only reason for such activity. While people may be able to curb some ridiculous tactics, when revenue comes into the picture, the politics get thick.

I also think they are extremely prejudice when it comes to listening. A young guy in a Mustang GT like myself will most likely be ignored and his account of the infraction, accident, or any other incident involving the police will be brushed aside. I have been on the receiving end of this, and quite frankly, it goes beyond making me angry.

I've had a few experiences with police (never more than a traffic violation). Some good, far more were handled very poorly. I see the common defense of police officers by people is that they know good cops personally. One of my best friends will be an officer in Mesa, AZ starting this summer. Is he good to me? Yep. Will he be good to people he doesn't know, I hate to say it, but I have extreme doubts.

[Unit 5302]

Originally posted by elliotness


Okay,

My post was not in reference to mustangman everyone can see that he was wrong. He did not deny he was wrong.

My post was in response to Blwn93 and his actions to avoid his ticket.

When you tamper with evidence, remove the illegal tint from your car prior to court, you have done something wrong. The act of removing the tint is more egregious than the original violation.

If he Blwn93 made any statement to the court indicating his tint was legal, he perjured himself. That is also wrong.

If he made no statement but led the court to believe that his tint was legal. That is also wrong.

He broke the law again. You must understand that his actions, removing the tint misleading the court, were wrong. *hit they were criminal. So, your argument that he did nothing wrong has a few holes in it.

If you want to say that his actions were justifiable given the trivial nature of his original offense, then say that. Saying that he did "nothing wrong" is just not accurate.

This has been fun, let's try it again sometime.

Elliot

LOL!!

Man, you really need to learn to R E A D. As I've said 2X now. Blwn93 doesn't have any damn TINT. Never did. mustangman had the fricken tint. Cripes. Blwn93 got pulled over for EXHAUST. Yet he had catalytic converters AND mufflers.

You're not making police look real good in the intellegence area right now, LOL.

[Jeb_Bush_2000]

You need to grow up.

Personally, I think you need to grow up. However, I'm not one to insult people over the 'net, so I won't go any further than that.


It's pretty clear, Unit, that you've had some sort of negative experience with the police. Maybe when you were a kid, someone stole your bike, and they never found it. Maybe you were having some harmless fun, and you got chewed out for it. Whatever the case, you've had nothing but negative contact with them.


Am I denying that there are a**hole cops? Of course not. But there are a**holes in every profession. Cashiers, bank tellers, lawyers, doctors. All of them might very well be an a**hole. Of course, a cashier can't overcharge you by hundreds of dollars because they don't like the kinds of things you bought.


Anyway, I accidentially deleted the previous draft of this post, and am retyping it from memory, and now I think I've left a part out, so I'll go right to the Big Finish.


I had said it in an earlier post, but I think it bears repeating: When you put your health and wellbeing in the hands of every lowlife with a grudge against the police...not for your own personal gains, but for the greater good of the public...then you can go on a tirade about how all cops are corrupt pricks with every agenda but justice on their minds. Until then, shut up and take it like a man. The "I hate cops" thing is getting old.

[Unit 5302]

Originally posted by Jeb_Bush_2000



Personally, I think you need to grow up. However, I'm not one to insult people over the 'net, so I won't go any further than that.

You just did insult me.

It's pretty clear, Unit, that you've had some sort of negative experience with the police. Maybe when you were a kid, someone stole your bike, and they never found it. Maybe you were having some harmless fun, and you got chewed out for it. Whatever the case, you've had nothing but negative contact with them.

READ above post. Some good, the majority bad. Don't make light of my experiences with the police. Actually, you're illustrating my point to a T. You fit the cop doesn't give a rats mentality profile quite well.

Am I denying that there are a**hole cops? Of course not. But there are a**holes in every profession. Cashiers, bank tellers, lawyers, doctors. All of them might very well be an a**hole. Of course, a cashier can't overcharge you by hundreds of dollars because they don't like the kinds of things you bought.

This you do have correct. Unfortunately, because they have greater power, they need to have more respect for that power. In my contact with them, they actually have less respect for the power they have.

Anyway, I accidentially deleted the previous draft of this post, and am retyping it from memory, and now I think I've left a part out, so I'll go right to the Big Finish.

I had said it in an earlier post, but I think it bears repeating: When you put your health and wellbeing in the hands of every lowlife with a grudge against the police...not for your own personal gains, but for the greater good of the public...then you can go on a tirade about how all cops are corrupt pricks with every agenda but justice on their minds. Until then, shut up and take it like a man. The "I hate cops" thing is getting old.

Police don't get into their line of work to help people. Don't be nieve. The vast majority (speaking as a person who has several friends becoming police) become police because of the power. They were beat up in school, or got their lunch money stolen, or they just get off on screwing people over and being able to get away with it. Self indulgent ego maniacs. I would wager a great deal of money on very few police officers going into their profession to "help people." I really could care less if they want to lay their life on the line, chances are they couldn't make it in a normal profession because of their inability to deal with being a normal person having no control over others. Their call. How about responding to 7 auto break ins in 3 nights in a 2 block area?

[Jeb_Bush_2000]

Police don't get into their line of work to help people. Don't be nieve.

Again, I think you're the one being naive. It's easy to jump on the "I hate cops" bandwagon.

The vast majority (speaking as a person who has several friends becoming police) become police because of the power. They were beat up in school, or got their lunch money stolen, or they just get off on screwing people over and being able to get away with it. Self indulgent ego maniacs.

In a "police state", I would agree. I think the majority of the Gestapo fit that profile.

I would wager a great deal of money on very few police officers going into their profession to "help people.

They sure don't do it for the paycheck.

I really could care less if they want to lay their life on the line, chances are they couldn't make it in a normal profession because of their inability to deal with being a normal person having no control over others. Their call.

Exactly my point. They weren't drafted into the force. It was a choice they made.

[Unit 5302]

I'm tired of this all police are poor attitude. They make GOOD *** money here. $50k STARTING. Own car to take home at night. $50k a year is damn good money for a service job, starting.

[Jeb_Bush_2000]

Is that for state, or local?

[elliotness]

Originally posted by Mr 5 0

I posted that 1999 Associated Press wire story only because you questioned Unit 5302's veracity. He wasn't lying - was he? Your acknowledgment that he was correct in his original statement that alluded to that case (and that you dismissed out of hand) would be welcomed, I'm sure.

ELLIOT:
Read my post. I did not say he was lying. I said I did not believe him. I stand corrected. One agency, out of how many, did this in 1999. That does not speak for all police agencies. Hence my anecdote "there once was a man from Nantuckett......" There probably is someone that can accomplish that feat. Most can't.

5.0
I take the position that there are good cops and bad cops and unlike TV, a lot of the lower-rung local cops are on
traffic duty and are the ones the public deals with. As far as 'The Law', well, it's not the law that's the problem but how the law is administered.

The cop pulling you over has many options and can harrass you or simply let you go with a verbal warning - if that.

ELLIOT:
You are leaving out another option which is ARREST. Remember in many states you recieve a citation in lieu of arrest. Next time thank him for not arrsting you. Just kidding.....

5.0
Unfortunately, some cops abuse the power we willingly give them. Most don't, but the average citizen doesn't meet high-ranking officers or detectives, just the patrolman in the squad car. Most cops don't have highly-developed people skills either, and it shows.

ELLIOT:
I agree, most don't. I still don't condone the tactic of removing the tint. I find that indefensible.

5.0
Yet the defense is that 'Police can't be everywhere' and 'They have to prioritize crimes to use resources effectively' so pulling over a motorist and issuing tickets for mufflers and tinted glass is a 'priority' but catching thieves who steal your car is hardly looked into, unless they happen to see the stolen car in front of them? Who's kidding whom?

ELLIOT:
My response to you is that traffic violations are a priority to traffic officers. Other divisions in Police offices have other duties and responsibilities and I would say auto theft is one of the priorities.

5.0
Look, we need laws - including traffic laws - and we certainly need police to enforce those laws, fairly. Not all police do that and the attitude of some is offensive to many.

ELLIOT:
Playing devils advocate, did you ever consider that @$$holes don't always wear uniforms. I'm sure police officers have dealt with many an offensive driver.

5.0
Personally, I don't have a problem with cops. I don't do dumb things and as I'm white, not a kid, middle-class (no nose-rings or freaky hair) and I treat police with respect when I'm stopped (rare) I don't get into trouble. Granted, if you 'cop a 'tude' with a cop at a traffic stop, you're begging for tickets and worse. That's stupid. Fight the ticket in court if you feel it's bogus but don't try to argue with the cop as you'll lose.

ELLIOT:
I agree with this statement. The theme of my post is a response to the behavior after the ticket was issued. My stance is while you are fighting the ticket, a midemeanor window tint violation. Don't commit a felony (obstruction of justice, perjury, tampering with evidence) by clandestinely removing the illegal tint prior to court to avoid a ticket and make the police look bad. That line of thinking is devoid of deep thought and plain dumb. Not to mention officers may start taking samples of tint to prevent people from doing what Blwn93 did. Then we will have something else to complain about.

5.0
Finally, although I respect a police officer mostly because of the potential power he holds over me, I understand that he may put his life on the line at any time. I do respect that but it doesn't excuse a lot of the harassing things some cops engage in. It doesn't make any police officer immune from criticism, either.

Doctors save lives every day, researchers find cures for disease, mothers love their children and ministers help save souls. So what? They're all subject to criticism.

ELLIOT:
Again, read my post. I never said that police officers should be excluded from criticism. You must be directing this to someone else. To the contrary, criticism of bad behavior, hiring practices, etc. sometimes can be a catalyst for change.

5.0
Being in a dangerous job you volunteered for is admirable but not enough to make you above everyone else. Cops are human, they make mistakes. Unfortunately, a cop that makes a mistake can put you in jail and possibly ruin your life. That is a powerful position to be in and one that we have to respect but also watch the possessors of such power carefully and subject them to criticism when warranted. This thread is doing just that, while understanding that it's all just opinion and of course, we can't arrest you if you disagree.

ELLIOT:
Have you considered that a mistake by a police officer approaching a vehicle that he can't see in (ILLEGAL TINT) can result in his death. How is that for a mistake!

I appreciate your opinion.

.

[elliotness]

Originally posted by Unit 5302


LOL!!

Man, you really need to learn to R E A D. As I've said 2X now. Blwn93 doesn't have any damn TINT. Never did. mustangman had the fricken tint. Cripes. Blwn93 got pulled over for EXHAUST. Yet he had catalytic converters AND mufflers.

You're not making police look real good in the intellegence area right now, LOL.

Not going to take the bait. I'll just let you know again. I am not a POLICE OFFICER.

[elliotness]

My apologies Blwn93 I had you mixed up with mustang man.

Elliot

[Unit 5302]

It's the local guys. State Troopers don't do too bad here either, but you don't start off as one. Sheriffs would obviously depend greatly on their jurisdiction.

[Mr 5 0]

elliotness:

Thanks for your opinion and yes, I was addressing my comments to you, as your posts are very pro-police and while you give lip-service to their faults you seem to ultimately find the danger of the job to be a trump card for most all arguments against police behavior that is illegal, harrassing or in any way negative. I'll get to that, later.

The New London police hiring story was real, of course, and I don't believe for a nanosecond that they are the only police department in the country that does this kind of testing with those limits. It's probably quite common but never advertised - for obvious reasons.

Your argument that a cop can ARREST you (emphasis yours) instead of issuing a citation is factually correct. We all know that if every motorist with tinted glass or a loud exhaust was ARRESTED (taken into custody, booked, bail set) the legal system would explode within days if not hours, so that's a straw man argument. It would never happen. The citation is as much for the police and courts convenience as it is for the citizen. It's a fair trade, by the way.

Yes, 'elliot', Police departments have divisions b but we've had many members report that after having a car stolen or vandalized, the cops mostly 'go through the motions' and if you complain you're told that they only have so many men available and a vandalized or even another stolen car isn't a high priority. Not encouraging.

When traffic-duty police make arrests for tinted glass and exhaust noise it's perfectly justified but obviously petty and mostly legal nit-picking. Jaywalking and spitting on the sidewalk are illegal and you can be cited for doing so but it's still a rather trivial use of police power all the same, even if you can wave the law book at someone and claim 'it's illegal'! Most everything is, it seems.

I'll trade Devil's Advocate suits with you for a moment and readily agree that police officers have to deal with a lot of trashy people and take a lot of bad attitude all the time. I truly believe this hardens them somewhat to the average law-abiding citizen with some minor automobile defect that they pull over. I believe that the hardened officer starts to think everyone is a 'perp' and is expecting trouble when he pulls you over, hence, the attitude on his part.

That's why when I treat police officers with respect I usually get it back, with or without a ticket.

On the issue that riles you the most, the illegal window tint, I agree that tampering with it was wrong, lacking integrity and illegal, although not the terrible crime you seem to think it is. Your reaction to that seems to be beyond what it deserves but so be it. Nothing either of us can do to change it.

Finally, the fact that seems to obscure all others for you is that cops can get killed in the line of duty. That's factual but more emotion than logic when we think that whatever else they do, the life-threatening nature of the job justifies it.

You may wish to deny you think this, but at the end of every pro-police post is usually the line, often in caps and bold; THEY CAN BE KILLED!!!!!!! I can almost hear the unspoken "So There!" that would follow this statement.

Sorry, 'elliot'. I respect the life-threatening nature of the job (most folks do) but young men (and women) line up for these dangerous jobs, take extensive tests, go through background checks, wait months, maybe years to be accepted and go through a difficult training process plus even have to pay for their own uniforms in many cases.

They want to be a police officer, they strive hard to get there and they willingly accept the very real risks involved but then, when they harrass a motorist the fall-back is always; 'They could DIE!'

Well, truckers can die on the highway, pilots can die in the sky, workers in chemical plants can die from toxins, etc and they all volunteered to be there. So while I respect the danger and frustration the police officer faces every day - and I don't minimize it - he/she volunteered for that danger, knowing full well what the job entailed. They don't work for free and they can retire with half-pay in twenty years (usually before 45) and start a new career if they choose. Most don't die on the job, as you know. It's tragic when they do but it's also quite rare.

Police work is a calling, not a job. The fact that it's dangerous is a given and eagerly accepted, apparently, by those who choose to do the work and take on the risk.

I applaud that dedication, I respect the dangers but I don't give anyone a pass because of it and I don't find trivial application of the law to harrass otherwise law-abiding citizens to be trumped by how dangerous the police officer's job is. Not relevant when discussing the specifics of traffic law enforcement, except that the officer needs to be careful when approaching every stopped vehicle and if the window tint is too dark, order people out of the car if he feels it's necessary but don't use the life-threatening aspects of the position he eagerly volunteered for as a defense for every police-related argument.

I appreciate your opinion, too but I would appreciate it even more if you didn't find it necessary to post everything in bold. It doesn't enhance whatever you're posting and it's another form of 'shouting'. No need. We hear you. Really, we do.

[PKRWUD]

Damn you type fast, Jim!

Take care,
-Chris

[Jacsracing]

Being a new member, I haven't made many posts, but this subject strikes dear to my heart so I thought I'd add my perspective on the issue.

First, let me put it in context by citing a personal experience from the other day. I got a "not wearing seat belt" summons, which in New Jersey is a citable offensive now. The reason I got this ticket was not due to a cop worried about my safety, but rather a problem in the town I work in. I work at an Army base. The base traffic tends to use a certain road to commute to/from the base that is highly populated and has a grammer school on it. The local folk have been complaining of excess traffic. In response, the police set up "seat belt check points" on this road only. Obviously, the objective is to harass the Army folk traffic into taking another path. They've issued many seat belt tickets now and apparently they intend on keeping the program up until us Army folk "get the hint."

The perspective I'm trying to introduce is that in many cases the individual cops are the center of citizen hatred when in fact the real problem is the underlying policies generated at the political level. In other words it's the local political hacks, backed by the court systems, causing problems just as much as the cops themselves.

At the root of this problem is a new business model that has been emerging in the last 20/30 years...that law enforcement is a profit-making venture now. These local towns/counties have realized that enforcing trivial traffic laws, focusing cops on this type of duty, generates income and alot of it. It would seem a good cop (in their eyes) can not only pay his own salary, but actually generate a profit for the local town coffers. One of my fellow engineers lives in a town that is only 2 square miles, yet has 22 police officers! In other words, the more cops you hire, the more income raised for the town, which enables them to hire yet more cops. All of whom the taxpayers will have to support when they retire at the ripe old age of 42.

In New Jersey, the police are out of control now. Too many. They are not interested in persuing real criminals such as thieves, rapests, murderers. And as a class of citizens, they are themselves without a doubt the largest group of criminals, and to make it worst they are organized and above the law. (ever see cops wooping it up in a bar and then drive home?). However, behind the scenes are the politicians they answer to, and behind them are the stupid soccer moms that asked for more police protection in the first place.

Be careful what you wish for...

Just my opinion.

John

[Jeb_Bush_2000]

Well, truckers can die on the highway, pilots can die in the sky, workers in chemical plants can die from toxins, etc and they all volunteered to be there.

Now see, I disagree with that. Anyone can die in an accident, cops included. I see stories about officers dying in traffic accidents, or fires, or what-have-you. But the fact is, a trucker probably won't be shot (or even shot at) while approaching a loading dock. Someone pobably won't try to ram their plane into a pilot for little or no reason. The reputation that the police have in this country puts them in the line of fire every hour of every day that they're working.


It's obvious that I'm in the minority here, and I hesitate to call the nice folks here "hypocrites", but...c'mon. What do you guys do for a living?



Oh, and Unit? For $50K a year, I agree, they should be a lot nicer to everyone.