Why Dan???

[PhreakFree]

haha, "newbie" ???? sorry buddy, just cause I don't hang out here all the time doesn't make me a newbie. find out about what you're talking about before you start typing. not to mention if you look at my registered date it says march 99, yours says APRIL 2002! buddy, that makes you the NEWBIE!

[PieceOfShite50]

Here's is what i understand that happend.....They had hired Dan to do thier website as he was supposed to renew the server for them....When he did...He put the server in his name...therefore screwing the TRUE owner of the sites without thier knowledge....they were trusting this person to do certain services for them and this person turned around and screwed them

[tireburner163]

Originally posted by PhreakFree
haha, "newbie" ???? sorry buddy, just cause I don't hang out here all the time doesn't make me a newbie. find out about what you're talking about before you start typing.

lets keep it friendly

[5.0L_Of_Fury]

fast88, the way I see all this is as follows...until yu are perfect...dont judge....and it is people like you who jump to conclusions and spread rumors and such that kill wonderful places like MW! SO WHAT if he did it? thats in the past...Im sure you have skeletons in your closet how would you fell if someone spread them all over the net? hmmm???? if the only reason you did all this is to stir up **** my suggestion to you would be...if you dont like this place or the people here...LEAVE...and how could you? I mean I am sure that man has given you solutions to your problems before I know he has to me so just leave it alone let it be...let by gones be by gones (ect)...I just think it is stupid and CHILDISH to point fingers( and this is coming from someone who is probly alot younger than most of you) "ohhh he did it he did it hes a bad man" I mean for the love of god people...if I was dan any of you that have gone along with this crap would be permately banned from this site...
steps down from soap box

[PieceOfShite50]

AGAIN....He is not saying anyone did anything....He is merely asking a question...which to this moment has gone unanswered....

[jj_jonathon]

not a big deal to me IF he did anyways....cuz even IF he did, its not exactly an enron scandel :P

[srv1]

i say piss on the whole ordeal. lets go out drinkin'!!!

[Hammer]

Couple of things...

I've spoken to Dan. I have made him aware of the thread and the "accusations". Although he doesn't have the time to make a thorough response now, (He does have a life outside MW...) he will be responding with facts, not hearsay, very soon.

Personally, this whole thing stinks of being handled the absolute WRONG way. If you have a problem with someone, you take it to THAT PERSON.
IMO this whole thing is childish, unnecessary, and insulting to Dan.

[tireburner163]

Originally posted by srv1
i say piss on the whole ordeal. lets go out drinkin'!!!

Whoo Hoo

[Redline302]

Ok heres my though.
Sorry to here about what happened to you guys that realy sucks,
But I have to agree let it go. Im sure there is several people on these boards that dont get along for one reason or another, that you cant change. What you can change is what happens from here. We are all fellow Mustangers with all good ideas and are ready to help each other. So you can get over it or not, dose not matter to us. You can enjoy a great sight or you can go away, Eather way well still be here when you leave. For the ones who wish to stay, Enjoy and Welcome. Im not flaming or trying to be a smart a** Just trying to make the best out of a bum Deal.....

[Topless In Texas]

Originally posted by Hammer
Couple of things...

I've spoken to Dan. I have made him aware of the thread and the "accusations". Although he doesn't have the time to make a thorough response now, (He does have a life outside MW...) he will be responding with facts, not hearsay, very soon.

Personally, this whole thing stinks of being handled the absolute WRONG way. If you have a problem with someone, you take it to THAT PERSON.
IMO this whole thing is childish, unnecessary, and insulting to Dan.

I AGREE WITH HAMMER!

I was not gonna say anything cuz I HATE to get involved in this type of sh**...but that just aint right! Dans unlike some people have a life other than to sit at his PC and post all day long....I'm sure he does not make it on MW ALL THE TIME! Which would account for his not replying to it the MINUTE its posted!
Things like this should be approached PERSONALLY....there is nothing more humiliating and degrading than being slammed infront of thousands of people....and of corse he will be defensive! There is two sides to EVERY story! Whether the accusation is true or not...there is a certain amount of RESPECT that should be shown. And, Personally, I cant even believe that you had the balls to post something like that on HIS Website! You could not honestly think that you could post something of this nature and it would be taken w/ a grain of salt?? I dont think so! This matter should have been handled in private. Thats just my opionion, and as the old saying goes, opinions are like assholes and everyone has one...and that is mine... TNT

[joe4speed]

Agreed...
Until you speak to Dan privately about it, why post trash on his site, or any other site, that's like someone telling me you're gay and going to your favorite site and telling everyone there you ARE gay. Next time, have a little tact.

[Unit 5302]

You newbies come in here and start firing off accusations about the owner of this site, who you do not know? Personally, due to the cirucumstances surrounding your attack, I would delete your accounts and ban your IP address.

You're mis-informed, and quite frankly, way out in left field. What you "understand" has obviously been spoon fed to you by people who don't know what they are talking about or who are blatently lying to you.

I had an e-mail discussion with Mr 5 0 about why I left this site. Newbie's like you are huge contributors to it. Get your **** together and quit posting this crap publicly.

You know, I heard fast88, Bad89stang, and PieceOfShite50, Adam Culpepper, PhreakFree gang raped a 13 year old girl? So guy's, is it true? Only how about I put your real name, and find about 1000 of your friends, and IM it to them? Get the picture, dumbasses?

You'd all be gone if I was owner of this site. You have no clue, and people like you are the lowest scum of the Earth. I'd rather hang out with ricers.

[6T9PONY]

I was going to stay out of this and just spectate also. BUUUUUT...couldn't resist...

First of all? WHO THE **** CARES!?!?! "What a tragic event, a domain name was MAYBE stolen." Boo frickin hoo....cry me a river.

I'm sorry, but I think this is getting out of hand and being blown way out of proportion.

This is Dan's site, Dan has great assistants that help him keep it running strong, and we are their loyal members.

If you're trying to sabotage Dan, it's not going to work. So please, don't plague MustangWorks with this crap.

Thank you, have a nice day.

[Crazy Horse GT]

Originally posted by Unit 5302
You newbies come in here and start firing off accusations about the owner of this site, who you do not know? Personally, due to the cirucumstances surrounding your attack, I would delete your accounts and ban your IP address.

You're mis-informed, and quite frankly, way out in left field. What you "understand" has obviously been spoon fed to you by people who don't know what they are talking about or who are blatently lying to you.

I had an e-mail discussion with Mr 5 0 about why I left this site. Newbie's like you are huge contributors to it. Get your **** together and quit posting this crap publicly.

You know, I heard fast88, Bad89stang, and PieceOfShite50, Adam Culpepper, PhreakFree gang raped a 13 year old girl? So guy's, is it true? Only how about I put your real name, and find about 1000 of your friends, and IM it to them? Get the picture, dumbasses?

You'd all be gone if I was owner of this site. You have no clue, and people like you are the lowest scum of the Earth. I'd rather hang out with ricers.

hahaha, kell comes through in the clutch, i agree, dan is allright in my book, so take your smack to mustangworld, with the other 12 year old's, geez.

[The Deuce]

Originally posted by PhreakFree
haha, "newbie" ???? sorry buddy, just cause I don't hang out here all the time doesn't make me a newbie. find out about what you're talking about before you start typing. not to mention if you look at my registered date it says march 99, yours says APRIL 2002! buddy, that makes you the NEWBIE!

Oh I'm soo sorry Rich. You and PJ can go start trouble somewhere else. Great, you registered yourself here two years ago. So what? There are two people here who registered today, and the fourth of you registered in March.

You are the only one with over 100 posts. That's not a whole lot. It means that you spend little time here actually getting to know who runs the site and how its run.

On a disturbing note, found out I was concieved in the back seat of a K-code '65. So does that trump your seniority in terms of being involved in the hobby? Or are you a bitter old man who's got nothing better to do?

[jj_jonathon]

In the past two months that I've been with MustangWorks all I've seen from administrators are insightful postings filled with genuine and useful information. They haven't bickered. They haven't thrown out accusations. Mainly they just care for the site, and about the members sincerely involved with it. So I don't know how a member of this site would want to believe some hearsay about any of them. I can understand how the internet sometimes presents itself as fact and can be quite convincing, but the real fact is, Dan still has yet to post in here and we've turned this hearsay into a multi-page "flame-war". The elder members are merely trying to defend Dan's position, understandable, but it's making those who are accusing just want to aggressively post back . Now I'm not taking any sides at all here, I prefer not to make enemies, but everyone needs to stop this insanity and just wait until Dan decides whether or not he even wants to say something. Because in actuality, he doesn't have to claim anything to any of us. It's his personal life we're discussing, and without him! None of us would appreciate that, it'd be like we're all in high school. Seniority or not, we all should know when to stop.

[mean81GT]

Seniority or not, we all should know when to stop.

Here!! Here!!

[StangFlyer]

First, let me just say that it really annoys me to no end that certain individuals seem to have nothing better to do in life than to shoot their damn mouths off and jump into other peoples business affairs. This is especially true when they have absolutely NO IDEA of what the true facts are, nor what all parties stories are, concerning business that is not their own.

Furthermore, I do not "live" sitting on my computer and starring at Mustang Works. I am an IT consultant, I work as a Sr. Web Developer, and I develop Web sites for a living. Much of the time I spend on the computer I am programming for work, independent contracts, or doing things that have absolutely nothing to do with my own Web operations (MW). I also have a personal life, a fiancee I have to spend time with, and many other interests. I do not sit here all day waiting to respond to crap like this. And, I am insulted by it and the accusations made by outside individuals that do not know what they are talking about, as well...


Unfortunately, there was in fact a misunderstanding on the part of Ron Robart (the owner of Fox Lake Power Products) and myself over the Fox-Lake.com domain name. Firstly, I'm going to say that I have known and done business with Ron Robart for several years and it is very unfortunate that this even occurred. I have always thought that Ron is good guy, as well. However, with no personal slam meant towards Ron, he doesn't know much about the Web, nor does he fully understand how it works. Arguably, this is too often true about many of the owners of the companies in our industry. Just getting them to understand how all the Web advertising works and its value has been a challenge over the years. Fortunately, it is getting better (slowly).

Ron has an employee named Tim Stockwell. Tim, or someone else, created a new Web site for Fox Lake. I did not create the original Web site for Fox Lake either (the one I've hosted for like five years). Actually, the original Web site for Fox Lake was created by Jon Edwards' (FFW Racer) wife and it was originally being hosted on Ron's ISP account at "http://www.bright.net/~cncfast/" way back when. I made a deal for long term, continual advertising back then with Ron. To make the deal, I not only gave him a discount on that advertising, but I also threw in hosting of his Web site as a freebie on my servers. At the time, Ron DID NOT have any domain name for his site.

I went out of my way to help Ron. To even help further, "I" went out on my own and purchased the domain name "Fox-Lake.com". Therefore, I have always been the legal owner of the domain. I did this so there would be a "real" domain name to run his site under, rather than having the URL be "http://www.mustangworks.com/foxlake/", or something similar. And, because he was basically computer illiterate, I didn't really go into all the nitty gritty details, except to say I got a name to run his site under because it would be more professional.

Now five years later, he has had someone build him a much better site. And, that's great. I had mentioned to him a couple times maybe one day I'd do a new site design for him. If I had, I was even going to do it FOR FREE (or at least VERY cheap) too, but unfortunately I never had enough time to do so around paying work. So, since I never did it's great that someone else finally did one for him. No complaints there.

Where the problem came in, was that Ron started trying to contact me to tell me that the new site was ready (which I knew about already) and that he wanted to direct Fox-Lake.com to it (i.e. he wanted the domain name). First, unfortunately at the time he first started trying to call me I was on vacation. I was not even around much (just checking in every couple days via Laptop and dialup), nor getting my calls. He left some messages, but as I was not around I wasn't able to get back with him yet. Then, if you'll all recall my incident when I popped my knee cap out of place? Well, that was the first day I was back home, which landed me in the hospital and further delayed me getting back with him. Unfortunately, he got upset and must have thought I was blowing him off. I finally emailed him (while laid up in bed with a bumb knee) with my laptop and my new wireless network card I had someone get me so I could use the Internet while I was laid up.

Upon Emailing him, I indicated that I had no problem redirecting or transferring ownership of the domain to him at all. However, I did request that he pay me $300 to reimburse me for the money I had personally paid to purchase the domain name, and then to renew the registration each year and pay for DNS services on it. These costs were not part of what I had been charging him for. In fact, I had paid them out of my own pocket because, like I said above, I purchased and owned the domain.

However, unfortunately, Ron not understanding how the domain even came to be I don't think by now (five years later) just knows there's a Fox Lake domain that his sites always been under since I've been running it and wrongly assumed that it was "his". Or, something to this effect. He didn't want to see these facts, and I think had always wrongly assumed that I had included the purchase of the domain in our arrangement. So, Ron got upset, which is not my fault. I don't feel that my request for simple reimbursement of the money I spent to own and maintain the domain was a lot to ask to transfer ownership to him. I certainly was not trying to sell it to him for anything, or extort profit from it, or anything of that measure. If I were, I'd be asking for a lot more money than $300 bux.

Regardless, Ron didn't get it. He went to Tim Stockwell and complained to him, and got Tim thinking I had somehow stolen the domain from him. Unfortunately, before Tim and I had even ever spoke, and he knew the true facts behind the domain, he ran all over the Mustang sites making posts implying I was a thief or something.

However, once Tim and I actually spoke directly (last week via Email) and I communicated what the facts behind the domain/sites history actually were he understood that I did not do anything wrong. And, in fact, apologized to me via Email and agreed to DELETE the threads he had posted about me. Which, is in fact, why they are no longer to be found on the NMRA's message forums.


Here is an Email reply I sent to Tim Stockwell last week at Fox Lake:

Let's get everything straight:

FIVE YEARS ago Ron was running his site on nothing but an ISP account at http://www.bright.net/~cncfast/. I made a deal with Ron to host his site on my servers, but this deal was mainly for continuous monthly banner advertising on MustangWorks.com with no impression limit. The normal rate for that advertising ALONE, with NO hosting at all, would be $xxx+ per month. I not only threw in complete hosting of his web site, but ALSO knocked over $50+ a month off the cost of his advertising. I gave him a GREAT deal. Then, not only that, but I also programmed (for free) CGI applications for his site, I took some of the HTML that was messed up and fixed it for him, and I also created all his banner ads for free AND did several informational updates over the years on his site and didn't even charge him for my time.

So, I think you need to get your facts straight. I gave him a hell of a deal, did free work for him, and I took good care of him to boot. Hell, I was basically hosting his site for free. What he was paying for was ADVERTISING Tim.

Furthermore, when I moved Ron's site over to my servers five years ago, he did NOT have a domain name at all. Like I said, he was on an ISP account at bright.net with NO domain name. To go even more of an extra mile to help him out "I" went out and registered the Fox-Lake.com domain name. I registered it myself, and "I" have always been the listed owner of it. I paid for the fees, I paid for the DNS, and I never asked him to pay me anything regarding it. I did this because he was giving me his business and I appreciated that. However, if he's taking away his advertising business and not going to continue hosting his site with me either (which he'd have to pay for with no advertising involved), then I didn't feel I had any reason to just hand over the domain name I purchased and EAT all the fees I paid for it over the years.

I had no problem letting Ron have the domain name to once again, HELP HIM OUT. But, I did feel it was fair to ask to be reimbursed the fees I paid for on it over the years. Especially when the hosting of his site was basically a freebie!


Here is Tim's response when he got the real story:

Dan, if this is the case then I am sorry. I only hear one side of this and it's Ron's side. Since we have never actually spoken about this you may be totally correct, but I didn't know your side of the story. All I hear is Ron telling me his side and that you won't call him back to talk about it. If you purchased the domain name, you have a good point. Ron told me that he had it 2-3 years before you ever got involved. I do know that I did a "whois" search on it about 6 months ago when he had me start on the new site and it did say that it was owned by Fox Lake and had you as the administrative contact... but I don't ever remember seeing that you owned it. Let's just get this taken care of and over with at this point. I'm tired of hearing Ron cry about it every day... I am truly sorry if this is correct, but without hearing both sides I was just doing what I had to do by setting up a new URL and trying to explain to our internet customer base why our URL had changed.

Thanks, Tim Stockwell
Fox Lake Power Products
Internet Sales and Marketing Manager


My response back to him again:

Tim,

I didn't call Ron back because when he started trying to contact me while I was on vacation. Then, while I was on vacation I had an accident and popped my knee cap out of place. I ended up in the hospital briefly and then laid up for two+ weeks. I didn't return his calls due to these circumstances, but did finally Email him and I believe, told him what the deal was. If he just didn't believe me and thought I was blowing smoke up his *** I can't help that.

First, if I didn't not own the domain from the beginning I would not be able to change that fact without Ron's permission. I don't know how much you've worked with the domain name registrar process, but once a domain name is registered, regardless of who is listed as what (technical, admin, billing contacts), the owner information can not be changed except by the listed owner. If "Fox Lake Power Products" had been listed as the owner on Fox-Lake.com and I tried to change it, even being an administrative contact under that domain, then typically the registrar would request signed paperwork be faxed to them from the listed owner approving the "transfer of domain".

Any ways, if I hadn't been the original domain owner I couldn't just "take it" from Ron without his permission. If that were the case we'd be having chaos on the Web now wouldn't we...

Now, at one time I may have had Ron listed as a contact on the domain name. I changed around my domain registrar account some time ago and reconfigured most of my stuff. I had to do this because I dumped my hosting provider where I used to run servers, got a fractional T3, and I run everything here now hosting wise. So, perhaps at the time you say you did a lookup on the domain in some fashion I had fox lake information associated with the domain name some how, but he certainly was not put down as the domain owner. Since you can list several contact people under a domain I probably just had him as one of them along with several of my own contact points. And, if you think about it that does make sense to do since I'm running his site under that domain. My guess is that you just saw his name listed with the domain and assumed he owned it.

Regardless, see this is why I couldn't understand why such a "war" exploded from all this and why Ron deemed my request so unreasonable. Unfortunately, with no true slam intended to Ron, he is a-typical of many of the people still in our industry. They just don't understand even the basics many times of all this Web stuff, how it works, and technology. I don't even think Ron realizes what I really did for him, or that I actually provided the domain to host his site under on my own, or that it cost me extra money to do so. He didn't know anything, and I was trying to help him, and so I just did it rather than try
to make him "understand it all".

All I can tell you Tim is that after the insane fiasco over FFW and the screw job I got over the past two years from them (deliberate in that area I might add) and this, I will never again do anything without a written contract for anyone. I also won't do anything for anyone for free again. It just does get you anything in the end, but hassles. Especially regarding domain names.

Any ways, I will transfer the domain to the account you set-up. And, I would greatly appreciate it if you would retract the undertones of your posts regarding the domain name where you made them.

Btw: if you did Ron's new site, you've much improved it. I had mentioned a couple times over the past couple years I might just do a new site for him but time never permitted it (another freebie I was going to do "just to help him out").


Again, his response back:

Totally understood... and I agree with your statements about how most people don't understand the whole internet process in general. That being said, I can in fact believe that Ron didn't understand the agreement that you had. I will retract all of my previous statements right away, and hope this all works out for all of us. Thanks.

Thanks, Tim Stockwell
Fox Lake Power Products
Internet Sales and Marketing Manager


So, I HOPE EVERYONE IS HAPPY! Now, why don't you go over to someone else's Web site and harass them.

[tireburner163]

Originally posted by The Deuce
On a disturbing note, found out I was concieved in the back seat of a K-code '65. So does that trump your seniority in terms of being involved in the hobby? Or are you a bitter old man who's got nothing better to do?

ROTFLMAO!!!!