A Cop Tells Me . . .

[Mr 5 0]

Unit 5302:

You're quite correct, the NHTSA is a taxpayer-funded federal agency with it's own political agenda and it's mostly anti-automobile. No friend of Mustangers, believe me. This agency is famous for this kind of 3-card-Monte game when it comes to statistics, which - as we all know - can be easily manipulated to say whatever you want them to say. The numbers are bogus when analyzed.

[Unit 5302]

I too thought it was National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration, but the site I was directed to seemed to be only NTSA. Wonder what the deal is with that?

Regardless, the numbers just don't hold water. It's a lot like adding up hp gains from mods in the magazines, lol.

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by mean81GT
oh, and pkrwud, when you got busted those few times, and went to jail those few times, did you break the law, or was some cop being an ***$hole?

I was breaking the law.

Originally posted by Unit 5302
If you still think tickets are not a revenue source, might want to take a look at Phoenix, and their ticket happy stoplight camera's.

Hehe, there was an article in the local paper here this weekend that announced that Ventura has ordered 20 more traffic light cameras, to be installed within the year. When finished, this will make Ventura the city with the most cameras in the entire USA. Am I upset? Not at all. I actually love them. I have read all the pros and cons imaginable over the past year and a half, since they started installing them, and I still love them. I drive through them every day, and have never received a ticket from one. You know why? Because I don't run red lights. There was one guy who wrote a letter claiming they were unfair to his girlfriend because she was afraid to stop for a yellow, because she feared the car behind her hitting her. For this sole reason, he felt they should be removed. To that I say: learn to drive, or take the bus. Driving is a priveledge, not a right. As far as generating revenue, the latest look at the books show that Ventura is currently losing money with the cameras because more and more people are stopping when they should. Ventura now has the lowest accident (due to running a red light) rate in the county. This also frees up local officers to do other, more important things, like patrol neighborhoods looking for crime. This city has lead the state with a reduction in crime since the cameras have been installed, while neighboring towns without the cameras have had crime increase. I have to admit, ten years ago, I would have been the first in line to protest these cameras, but I've seen the results, and I'm quite happy with them.

Don't want a ticket? Stop for the red lights.

Take care,
-Chris

[Unit 5302]

You didn't read the Phoenix report did you PKRWUD?

Phoenix dropped the yellow light time from 4sec to 3sec on the intersections where the red light cameras were installed. That made the lights shorter than any others, and citiations went through the roof. Upon hundreds of complaints, they changed it back. The company building the camera's McDonnell Douglas or Boeing (forgot which aerospace company) then threatened the city. The company was making a cut of the traffic tickets. The city agreed to install more of the red light cameras, donate a much greater portion to the manufacturer, and NOT change the delay from yellow to red.

100% pure revenue. As far as running red lights, I try not to. Sometimes it's hard to gauge perfect, and you're right in the middle of going or stopping. Pretty lame to get ticketed out the wazoo with no judgement call.

[PKRWUD]

No, I didn't read the Pheonix report, but I did hear all about the San Diego mess. I've read dozens of letters to the editor suggesting that the length of time a light remains a certain color have been modified to increase the amount of people breaking the law, but Ventura swears that has not happened here. From my experience, I believe them. One of the things I really like about driving in Ventura, is the way the traffic lights are timed. This was well thought out, and has remained largely unchanged throughout the years. Any driver that pays attention becomes aware of what color other lights will be when you get there, based on the one you're currently at. For example, I know that when the light going southbound on Victoria, at Telephone, turns green, I will not have to stop again, through 7 more traffic lights, until I exit the freeway in some other town, provided I maintain an average of 35 to 40 mph. This includes driving through 5 straight forward lights, and two right hand turn lights, the last of which is at the 101 Freeway southbound onramp. This gets even better. I know that when I leave my house, and the light at Thille St and Victoria turns green, allowing me to turn left onto northbound Victoria, I will make the next light, by the 126 freeway, regardless of how fast I drive, AND, if I maintain 70 mph on the freeway, I will encounter traffic entering the 101 freeway (after the 126 joins the 101) from Main Street, 4 miles away. If I drive over 75 on the freeway, between those two points, I pass the Main Street onramp just ahead of the traffic that is coming on from the light that just changed on Main Street. This is true throughout the city. I can tell you what color the lights will be at any freeway offramp in the city, based on when I get on the freeway, and the last green light I went through. The only time these vary is between 10pm and 6am, and on Sunday after 6pm. At these times, the lights change due to traffic that has tripped the signal via in-road weights/scales.

The point I'm getting to is that these things haven't changed since the cameras went in, and I think if they had, there would have been a difference.

Also, the way Ventura worked things out, the company who builds and installs the cameras (some company in Australia) did them for free, but they get a high percentage (75-80) of the revenue that is generated for the first 5 years, and then they get a smaller percentage in the years following. They might even get 100% for the first 2 years, I really don't remember, but I do remember reading recently about how the revenue being generated was well below the anticipated amount.

I do find that as I get older, I drive alot more responsibly. It get's boring sometimes, but I'm okay with it. I think that makes it much easier for me to stop for lights. I seem to remember it being alot tougher for me 10 years ago.

Take care,
-Chris

[302 LX Eric]

Although I don't have a big issue with the camera's at intersections, I do have an issue with where we as a society are heading with cameras. Today we install cameras at intersections to alledgely curb running red lights, and tomorrow we'll be putting cameras where? In neighborhoods? Along side highways at various concealed points? Why don't 'they' just install a camera on top of your head just to make sure you're not breaking the law?

I have the same type of 'where does it end?' issue with zero tolerance. There was a story in the paper a couple weeks ago about a teenage girl that was 'caught' with one tylenol pill while at school. She was suspended for three days. I can't imagine what the punishment would have been if she had the whole bottle in her purse - Maybe 10 to 15 at San Quinten?

Where does it end? How far will we go?

E

[Mr 5 0]

PKRWUD:

I agree that the 'stoplight camaras' can be useful to cut down red-light running and free up police for real crime investigation and prevention.
I know a few people who were hurt (and my former boss was killed on the way to work one fine morning) after being involved in intersection accidents caused by 'red-light runners'. I have no strong objections when this technology is done fairly (timers remain constant) and it's well known that it exists.

You see the problem: when some cities (this seems to vary) use the cameras to play games with the light timers and run up ticket revenue, it's simply an abuse of police and court power, in my opinion. I'm suspicious of any 'deal' that allows the manufacturer of the cameras to retain a 'cut' of the fines beyond what it may cost to pay for the cameras. Sounds like a scam hiding behind 'the law'. This kind of scamming by some greedy city authorities simply breaks down the respect for the law we must have to maintain an civil, livable society, so I object to it when implemented in this manner.

Eric:

You ask a good question: Where does it end? How far will we go?

The short, simple answer is that it will end when we want it to end. We still live in a democracy, not a dictatorship. When we finally refuse to continue electing politicians who see this kind of thing as 'good for us', 'a safety issue' and that sure winner with the 'Soccer Mom's': 'For the Children'.

It will 'go' as far as possible as technology increases and we, the citizens - who pay the taxes that keep the government running - go along with it.

By the way; the 'Zero-Tolerance' (zero common sense I call it) anti-drug policy that makes Tylenol a 'drug' and interrupts a child's education and labels her a 'problem' for having one in her possession is driven - in part - by fears of lawsuits. If schools don't crack down on drugs in schools, when and if some druggie/nutcase kills someone, the victim's parents can sue the school district for not 'doing more' to protect the kids from drugs. Parents themselves partially bring on these asinine regulations with their fears. However, the school administrators use no sense at all in handing out punishments and a backlash is building against this kind of mindless 'zero-tolerance' stuff that call a Tums or a Tylenol 'drugs' and screws up a young, innocent kid's school record for nothing at all.
Sometimes it takes this kind of over-reaching by authorities to wake up people to the abuses inherent in zero-tolerance and other originally well-meaning but effectively harsh and negative policies that hurt mostly innocent people, like a schoolgirl with a Mydol pill that they call a drug and punish her for simply having it in her purse, as if it was cocaine - or a gun.

Liberal politicians want to micro-manage every aspect of our lives and do in far too many areas, including how much water can flow through your toilet bowl and your shower head. Every new regulation is always for some worthy cause (save water). The stoplight-camera issue (saving lives) is just another in a very long line of government intrusion into our lives under the cloak of 'helping us'. Yeah, right, Officer.

In England, they do have cameras on the street, 'watching' everyone who walks by and monitored by police-types looking for illegal behavior. No joke. The justification is preventing crime, of course, and even our constitution doesn't give you privacy rights when walking down a public sidewalk so yes, it could happen here and probably will. Feel safer yet?

As I said, this kind of Orwellian intrusion and control of our movements and our lives will only cease when the public, the taxpayers, the citizens say 'Enough!' Unfortunately, in this Soccer-Mom dominated society that gave us an immoral, lying, cheating clown like Bill Clinton as a President twice elected, I'm not holding my breath waiting for the early reversal of this trend.

[PKRWUD]

Jim-
I share your (and others) concerns. I too see the red light cameras as a potential doorway to more serious intrusions upon our freedoms. But right now, the way it's working here, the pros outweigh the cons, IMO. The cameras are still photograph cameras, not video cameras, and they only are activated when a vehicle enters the intersection after the light has turned red. If no one runs a red light, the camera isn't used. Ventura is going out of it's way to do this legally and fairly, thanks in part to the ordeal San Diego just finished going through, in which they were taken to court, and ordered to remove their cameras. This is walking the fine line in my mind, between being a good thing and being a bad thing. I have listened to and read arguements almost daily since the project began 18 months ago, and I'm still in favor of them. There is a very vocal opposition to them here, and if they do end up crossing the line into an invasion of privacy, the public would probably not have much trouble shutting them down. Hopefully it won't get to that point.

Take care,
-Chris

[Stang Runner]

Very good points about the Cams where will it stop.... is what one needs to ask.

[Robocop]

all right guys I have not been a member for long and I do not want to make any enemies as i need all the friends I can get.I do not know as much motor facts or tech. stuff as most of the members here but I do know cops.I have been a cop for 5 years and I patrol a very violent area.I will agree that there are some cops that give the honest ones a bad image but most are good people,at least in my area.I almost lost my license in my teens as I drove fast every time I could and paid many reckless driving tickets.I also hated cops as I blamed them for not allowing me to drive any way I wanted.I do not write many tickets and I always allow 20 mph over the limit before I will even stop a car.I know I will probably be flamed for saying but before anyone critisizes a cop they should walk in their shoes.I am a fairly decent cop and I have even allowed street racers to race while I watched on duty but it was in a safe environment and not a crowded street.Having said this I will say that I meet people everyday that hate me just because of the uniform and know nothing more of me.I have been shot at,stabbed,hit by a car,cursed at,spit on,and have to fight people,on a daily basis,that most would run from.I have held bloody children and pulled bodies from cars and yes even the best officers can be changed by these things but I hope it will not change me.I first changed my opinion of cops when I did a ride along with some local cops.I got a chance to see some of the crap they endured and the dangers they faced and this slowly changed my feelings.I do work with some guys that have a power trip are probably real cowards with out their uniform,but these guys are usually spotted pretty quick by their co-workers and are often avoided by honest police.I feel bad that some people live in towns where cops are too strict but there are ways to get along with cops.Try approaching cops more and just allow them in your conversations.They will probably like the fact that someone is talking to them with out being angry.Remember they are people also with the same problems and fears as many people have and usually enjoy being accepted.I get along well with most people but I do police work different than most cops.Anyway I hope that I have not offended any members as I will need much advice on my future stroker motor.If anyone needs any cop advice or other cop stuff just let me know.

[Mach 1]

Well, Im late in this thread, and didnt read the entire thing, but thought I would post my recent experiences with the law.

I have had 3 instances of cars parked in my driveway getting broke into in the middle of the night and stereos, CD's, camera equipment, etc...being stolen.

When the police come to take a report, they are obviously uninterested and just going through the motions.

On the other hand, I have been stopped for numerous bullcrap type traffic violations in and around my neighborhood. I got a $200.00 ticket for doing a "rolling stop" one evening. I get harrassed for going over the speed limit on a straight, deserted road by my house that has a ridicuously low speed limit, for no other reason than to give tickets I believe.

This road has farm fields on eithier side, its a perfectly straight road, no curves, hills, nothing, and the speed limit is 25 mph! Why? Because its a ticket making machine. Any normal person driving on this road will speed because they dont realize the pathetically low speed limit would exist on a road like this.

So anyway, where are all the power hungry harrassers when cars in my driveway are getting ripped off? Cranking thier meat somewhere. But they will be there in daylight to hand out tickets like the losers they are.

My freind who lives a few blocks away came home late one evening and found some folks ripping off his neighbors car. He calls the police on his cell phone, and start to follow the crooks as they drive away. The 911 operator tells him to stay with them, and he does, going around 100 MPH, the whole time on the phone giving directions to the police and their location. It took 30 minutes for the cops to finally show up and pull them over.

So you have exact location being reported to you as the bad guys are driving, and it still takes 30 minutes to get a cop anywhere near them, while telling my freind its ok to do 100 MPH as long as he can stay with them? And then the same jerks will pass out around 15 tickets in those same 30 minute time span on another day.

needless to say, but I HATE COPS!

[Jeb_Bush_2000]

needless to say, but I HATE COPS!

Try calling up the local department and telling them that.

[Mach 1]

Originally posted by Jeb_Bush_2000



Try calling up the local department and telling them that.

The cops are wll aware of my feelings toward them. Whats your point?

[Robocop]

Many of the feelings towards cops are common and I know many people with bad experiences with police.I think that the police show a feeling of no concern towards others problems because they see so many problems on a daily basis.Also because of the crappy system towards criminals in general.Some police feel an attitude of I dont care simply because they feel like it does no good to try to stop crime because criminals are treated like kings in todays times.I chased a man down after he stabbed an 83 year old woman and took her purse.I had to fight the man and was also stabbed however was able to take him into custody.After a long trial he was released after he pled guilty and claimed he was addicted to crack cocain.He only received 6 months probation and later went on to commit many more crimes.You can see how a system like this can change a cops attitude.I agree that cops in general should be more caring but it is not always easy to do.As everyones situation is different I do not blame anyone for the way they feel towards cops.I also once hated cops and still know many cops that have a crappy attitude towards people but please understand that there are still many good cops in the world even if they are not in your area.I also do agree that speed limits are overkill in many areas and I must admit that i drive at least 20 mph over everywhere i go but this is something that will probably never change.Fortunately I do not have to write many tickets because my dept. does not require tickets for revenue.There are many small towns that get most of there money from tickets and therefore constantly ask for more tickets from their officers.I also know officers that write tickets only and rarely make arrests.I think this is because they are not motivated either due to fear or lack of interest.Anyway my point is that I know there are bored officers in small towns that harass people just because they can but this does not make all police bad people.When I first became a cop I had an opportunity to work for the town I was raised in.I turned this job down because many of the cops here were much like the ones described in this discussion.It seemed like they had nothing better to do than write teens tickets and brag about how hard there jobs were.I chose to go to a city nearby where I could be a real police and I am very happy with my choice.I am however a racer at heart and still have an affection towards fast cars.This is why I have owned 3 stangs and I drove them all wildly fast.I am lucky enough to be able to relate to people like me so I get along well with the people in my area at work.If anyone is in my area(bham,al.)look me up at south precinct and I will arrange a ride-a-long so you can see how real police work is done.

[tireburner163]

ok, there are jerks in the world and there are cool people. Cops are people, ie, some are cool and some are jerks.

BTW Robocop, I'm in Meridian, MS not far from you. Er....could you just arange a ride-a-long for me in your GT

[srv1]

Robocop, it seems to me that there are more dickhead cops than nice ones. it gives you the bad rap. that sucks. most officers that i have ran into have a huge chip on their shoulders and they act that way in person too! i understand that it is tough to be a cop these days in the city with all the injustices that are going on. but to act like a jerk to the public gets you NOWHERE! i would assume that you would want to be friendly to the public and be a cool officer and do your job, then less people will dislike you(cops). it must be a frame of mind that they get in. i dont know. as for you, you seem to be cool. but one bad cop attitude ruins others reputations. huh, that must tick you off.
ususally when i get pulled over, i dont give them an attitude at all. i listen to what they have to say, then i ask my questions with a "yes sir/mam" or a "no sir/mam". it seems to help a little, but cops seem to be on their high horse when writing tickets. but it seems it doesnt make a difference mostly.
another thing that is bothering me really bad is this. going to work in the morning and all i see is cops everywhere giving people speeding tickets. i mean, come on! we are going to work to make a living, and you are making it worse. i understand traffic is very heavy in the morning, but really all you police officers have to do is to set up some cops, and people see them, they slow down! then it makes it safer. i know you work in the city and dont do highway patrol, but just thought i would tell you what pisses me off the most.

any pics of your car?

too bad i didnt live near you, i would LOVE a ride along! as long as i can hit the switches! haha

[Jeb_Bush_2000]

If anyone is in my area(bham,al.)look me up at south precinct and I will arrange a ride-a-long so you can see how real police work is done.

I'm gonna take you up on that this fall, Robocop. Drop me an email when you get a chance.

[Robocop]

Well thanks for the compliments.And I believe that a person does not have to receive a ticket in order to learn to drive safe.The sole purpose of any good police officers job is to prevent crime.This can be done in many ways and I have stopped people before and accomplished more by gaining their respect than writing tickets.Most cops get off on their power trip and forget what it is like to be an everyday normal person.A good cop takes all details of any stop and applies them to the outcome.I stopped a guy driving 115 mph in a 45 mph zone.He was young and polite and admitted he was on the way to pick up his child and was late.I believed him as he had a child seat in the back seat.I spoke with him for a minute as a person and not some guy I had just stopped and I think I got my point across and he was released with no ticket and my advice to keep it under 65 mph.But I had gained this guys respect and he now told me he was worried I would smell the marijuana smell in the car.I was amazed this guy said that and I asked him if he had drugs in the car.The kid said yes and pulled a joint from the sun visor.Well my point is this,I admired the guy for being a young father and for respecting me enough to admit to the dope.I believed him when he said he would keep his dope at home and slow down so I had accomplished what I set out to.The guy was allowed to tear the joint up and I have never had any more problems with him and I see him often..Now this is just me and my style and whatever you do dont admit to anything to the kind of cops you guys are talking about cause they would probably react very different.I am trying to learn how to use my camera (digital) and plan to have pictures soon.I tried to post a picture of my bike on on the cycle trader site and could not figure it out(CBR 600 Smokin Joes F-3)My car is in great shape but I am tearing the stock motor down in plans of pulling it.I have a D.S.S. motor with AFR heads and 8lbs of boost that I am planning to replace my old stock motor with.This is why I joined this forum because I only know driving and not much tech stuff.I enjoy looking at other combos and will need future advice on mine.So yes I am a cop but I still know what it feels like to drop that clutch and bang the gears and I can not wait to see what it feels like to drive a stang with boost and good bolt ons.

[Mach 1]

well Robocop, I agree with what you are saying, and it appears that you are indeed a good cop, a cool cop, and a respectable person. To bad theres not more like you.

[Robocop]

Just trying to learn how to post a photo