Decision 2004

[bigwhitecobra]

So...it's that time again. Who should we elect? Bush or Kerry? What does it matter? We are still going to be in the same position 4 years from now. The president will be richer, and we will be poorer. We need to start over. Everybody in Congress and in the Senate should be fired. They should also be limited to a 2 term limit. Why would someone spend 2-3 million dollars to get a job that pays only 2-300 thousand a year? Let's get real, they get sooo many kick backs it's not even funny. Yet our tax dollars are paying for it. The rich keep getting richer, and the poor keep getting poorer.

Freedom. That is our reward for keeping these people in office. What Freedom? Can I listen to the radio and hear the music I like the way the artist recorded it? Nope. The FCC desides what is ok to listen to. They deside what is a "bad word" and what is not. Who are these people? Did you vote for them? I didn't . Oh wait, they were appointed. And they can't be fired. Didn't know that did you?

Talk about job security.

My plan is simple, and requires you to do nothing at all, Don't Vote this year. What would happen if no one Voted? Easy the electoral college would vote for who they wanted. That's right your vote doesn't even matter. What a wonderful feeling. However, if no one votes and the electoral college elects the next president, the system will be exposed for what it is, a dictatorship.

Whoops time to go back to work. I'll finish my thoughts later.

[Dark_5.0]

"The president will be richer, and we will be poorer."

Speak for yourself, I am doing just fine. Always have.

[bigwhitecobra]

You get the point.

[mustangII460]

Can of worms, so here goes.



ANYONE THAT WOULD WRITE A BOOK AND PUT THE AMERICAN FLAG UPSIDE DOWN ON THE COVER, CAN KISS MY HAIRY REAR END! FOR THAT SIMPLE ACT, I COULD AND WOULD NEVER VOTE FOR A A$$ LIKE THAT. NOT EVEN IF HE GAVE ME A MEELION DOLLARS.

Thanks, bye.

[xxxBlakexxx]

Originally posted by bigwhitecobra
So...it's that time again. Who should we elect? Bush or Kerry? What does it matter? We are still going to be in the same position 4 years from now. The president will be richer, and we will be poorer. We need to start over. Everybody in Congress and in the Senate should be fired. They should also be limited to a 2 term limit. Why would someone spend 2-3 million dollars to get a job that pays only 2-300 thousand a year? Let's get real, they get sooo many kick backs it's not even funny. Yet our tax dollars are paying for it. The rich keep getting richer, and the poor keep getting poorer.

Freedom. That is our reward for keeping these people in office. What Freedom? Can I listen to the radio and hear the music I like the way the artist recorded it? Nope. The FCC desides what is ok to listen to. They deside what is a "bad word" and what is not. Who are these people? Did you vote for them? I didn't . Oh wait, they were appointed. And they can't be fired. Didn't know that did you?

Talk about job security.

My plan is simple, and requires you to do nothing at all, Don't Vote this year. What would happen if no one Voted? Easy the electoral college would vote for who they wanted. That's right your vote doesn't even matter. What a wonderful feeling. However, if no one votes and the electoral college elects the next president, the system will be exposed for what it is, a dictatorship.

Whoops time to go back to work. I'll finish my thoughts later.

I am not trying to be a dick, but my suggestion to you would be to move. If you really feel that way, try living in another country and see how you like it. Then you will know how lucky and fortunate we are.

Remember, we try to have laws to protect the masses. There is control on the radio waves for the same reason why there are speed limits. Freedom does not mean that you can do whatever you want. It means that you can have a thought, it means that you can cross state lines, it means that you can vote....it means lots of things. It even means you can burn the flag if you want or express your religion (though this one can be debated).

BTW, politicians are not appointed, judges are and they can be fired. It's called "impeachment". They can also NOT get re-elected.

Do us all a favor and vote even if you think it does not count. Right now there is a young soldier sitting in a fox hole thinking about his wife and small children and wondering if he will make it back in a body-bag. Vote so his life has meaning and to tell him that while you may not agree with our actions, that you appreciate the sacrifice that he is making and the millions before him.

Be proud to be an American even if it's not perfect. Winston Churchill once said about democracy that's it was the worst form of government, but better than anything else.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :

So...it's that time again. Who should we elect? Bush or Kerry? What does it matter? We are still going to be in the same position 4 years from now.

You're off to a poor beginning. One that demonstrates either an advanced case of naiveté or a poor attempt at cynicism. Informationally, Senators and Representatives are paid, by law, $158,100. per annum plus a lot of mandated benefits which may well add up to '200-300 thousand dollars a year'. The U.S. economy is the most expansive in the world and our so-called 'poor' live like kings compared to countries like India, China and Africa. America has opportunities unknown in any other nation and if you are poor in America, it's either because you are, frankly, stupid, lazy or simply make poor choices in life, not because of lack of opportunity.

The president will be richer, and we will be poorer.

This statement, by itself, is simply inane. The presidency isn't about money but power. You appear to be very confused.

We need to start over. Everybody in Congress and in the Senate should be fired. They should also be limited to a 2 term limit. Why would someone spend 2-3 million dollars to get a job that pays only 2-300 thousand a year? Let's get real, they get sooo many kick backs it's not even funny. Yet our tax dollars are paying for it. The rich keep getting richer, and the poor keep getting poorer.

Worn-out cliches don't make good arguments and the midde and upper class has expanded every year. The statistical 'poor' are usually single mothers,most teen-agers and/or part-time, minimum-wage workers.

Yes, Senators and Representatives sometimes take bribes and use the office for personal gain of some sort. That's been going on for well over 100 years. Mark Twain said: "It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly American criminal class except Congress".. He said it over 100 years ago, so a corrupt congressman is nothing new. To presume that we could 'fire' all 100 Senators and 435 Representatives is naive. They were duly elected by the people of the state they represent, whether you like them or not. As for term limits: I agree with you there, as do a vast majority of the American people, but the system is rigged. Congress makes the laws, including those on term limits and they are not about to limiit themselves. The solution is huge public pressure on congress to reform but there is little of that around these days so the system remains intact and always favors incumbents.

Freedom. That is our reward for keeping these people in office. What Freedom? Can I listen to the radio and hear the music I like the way the artist recorded it? Nope. The FCC desides what is ok to listen to. They deside what is a "bad word" and what is not. Who are these people? Did you vote for them? I didn't . Oh wait, they were appointed. And they can't be fired. Didn't know that did you?

Yes, I did, probably long before you discovered that reality, but never mind all that. Here's a reality check: The FCC can only limit what is said on the public airwaves, which radio stations must, by law, obtain a license to use. Those licenses are a cash cow for the stations and networks. That the FCC, an agency that has been around for 70 years, imposes some minimal standards of over-the-air decency is simply a response to the public's demand for programming they can listen too without filth and swearing every ten seconds. You are free to buy all the CD's and attend the concerts until you have your fill of whatever it is you think the radio deprives you of. Cable TV and the internet also offer all the 'freedom' to listen to whatever it is that you want so badly to hear.

Talk about job security.

Talk about being totally uninformed on what you're whining about.

FCC Commissioners are appointed by the president to five-year terms. They cannot have a financial interest in any FCC-related business. Only three out of the five Commissioners may be from the same political party.

My plan is simple, and requires you to do nothing at all, Don't Vote this year. What would happen if no one Voted? Easy the electoral college would vote for who they wanted. That's right your vote doesn't even matter. What a wonderful feeling. However, if no one votes and the electoral college elects the next president, the system will be exposed for what it is, a dictatorship.

Your 'plan' is moronic. As it is, barely 50% of those eligible to vote now do so. That's not good. The Electoral College exists because if we simply went with a 'pure' popular vote, the smaller states would have no say in the election and a handful of large-population states would decide every single election simply by the size of their population. The Electoral College electors are pledged to vote for the person whom the individual state's voters have already elected (by the popular vote) and though they can change their vote, this has only happened once in the past 100 years. You seem to not understand that America is a representative democracy, not a direct democracy and our political institutions reflect that fact. Calling the best government man has ever devisied - democracy - a 'dictatorship' and urging people not to vote is simply immature and reflects a shallow grasp of both politics and how our democratic government works.

Whoops time to go back to work. I'll finish my thoughts later.

Lucky us.

[Dark_5.0]

[i]Originally posted by Mr 5 0




Lucky us. [/B]

LMAO.........

[Fat0eknee]

somebody just laid some massive pipe

[xxxBlakexxx]

As you guy read this thread, it can be summed up in one simple way. Look at what Mr 5.0 lists as his home and compare this to the thread starters home. I think that sums things up from an attitude stand point.

[1989GT]

I am not trying to be a dick, but my suggestion to you would be to move. If you really feel that way, try living in another country and see how you like it. Then you will know how lucky and fortunate we are.

Exactly. Some people really have no idea how great we have it. And until you've seen with your own eyes how some people in other country's have it you'll never really understand.
-Ryan

[mustardjohn]

I think the EC is bound to vote as instructed by the voters for the first vote. If that vote does not result in a majority winner, they are then free to vote their own way. I think it may have happed once in 200+ years that a majority was not reached on first vote but I am not sure about that.

[CupCake]

I don't understand some american's sometimes. Let's talk about jobs ok???? People get paid $0.65 an hour to work at BaskinRobins in my country. An old men gets about $75 a month for social security, there is no jobs at all, the third city in population in my country is NYC. Talk about having to leave your homeland because you have bad people doing what they want with you money and your country, firing everybody to hire all their family members, an embassador that is 18 years old because he is the president's nephew. That is a goverment that you should say all the things you did, there is no middle class there, you either starve or you are filthy rich. I will love to be an american, so I can vote, and know that I have a voice and that people care of what I have to say. I consider myself an american even though I am not one, but I am proud of being an american in my heart so maybe you should be proud of being an american, being one. Maybe you should move and live in a country with a didactor as a president and see if it is the same as here.

[bmxmon]

Umm, two things.
1: Cupcake, i believe, it says you live in North Carolina.................
2: I think that the electoral college is kinda BS. From what i remember from my us history class like a year or two ago, it was mostly created because most americans werent greatly informed on politics, information didnt travel real fast, so people couldnt make as good of decisions based on the small information that they received. And, I feel that the majority should be the ones to tell who the president is going to be. I dont think that States should either be entirely for one canidate or the other. If in one state 40,000 people voted for Bush, and 30,000 people voted for Kerry, then Bush would get that state. Lets say that state has 5 people in the electorial college. A different state, 10,000 people vote for kerry, and 5,000 people vote for Bush. Kerry gets one person. Next state, Kerry gets 15,000 votes, Bush gets 5,000. Kerry gets one more person in the electorial college. Now, Bush would have 50,000 votes, and 5 people in the electoral college. Kerry would have 55,000 votes, 2 people in the electoral college.

Fair??? not really. By the way, I would rather see Bush get reelected. But Im 17, so i dont matter, haha.

[MidNiteBlu 5.0]

alot of people in the US still arent politcally informed mostly due to ignorance...

[xxxBlakexxx]

Originally posted by bmxmon
Umm, two things.
1: Cupcake, i believe, it says you live in North Carolina.................
2: I think that the electoral college is kinda BS. From what i remember from my us history class like a year or two ago, it was mostly created because most americans werent greatly informed on politics, information didnt travel real fast, so people couldnt make as good of decisions based on the small information that they received. And, I feel that the majority should be the ones to tell who the president is going to be. I dont think that States should either be entirely for one canidate or the other. If in one state 40,000 people voted for Bush, and 30,000 people voted for Kerry, then Bush would get that state. Lets say that state has 5 people in the electorial college. A different state, 10,000 people vote for kerry, and 5,000 people vote for Bush. Kerry gets one person. Next state, Kerry gets 15,000 votes, Bush gets 5,000. Kerry gets one more person in the electorial college. Now, Bush would have 50,000 votes, and 5 people in the electoral college. Kerry would have 55,000 votes, 2 people in the electoral college.

Fair??? not really. By the way, I would rather see Bush get reelected. But Im 17, so i dont matter, haha.

Pretty smart kid for 17! However, you must realize there is not "perfect" system. One very important fact about the EC, is that it prevents large, isolated population areas from electing the president. If presidential election was a straight popularity vote, then places like Ca and NY might always control the outcome of the elections and this simply is not fair. Even the Democrats who generally own these two state, do not want this. Why? because it could burn them just as easily.

There has always been a polittical important of owning land in this country. At one point, I believe, only a land owner could vote. The EC system as weight to population while considering land mass.

If we want to make electians more fair, we should start by not allowing the media to publish results until the election is over and a winner is announced.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by bmxmon :

Umm, two things.

1: Cupcake, i believe, it says you live in North Carolina.

Umm, 'Cupcake' stated in earlier posts that she is a native of Ecuador. She is a fairly recent immigrant to America, thus her comments and observations give us another, interesting perspective on our country.

2: I think that the electoral college is kinda BS

Your history teacher was giving you 'BS'.

As you correctly noted; if we elected presidents by a pure popular vote only the six or seven largest-population states would determine the winner, leaving the voters of some 40+ states with no say in who was president. That is simply untenable in a democratic society. Hence: the Electoral College and no, it's not 'perfect' but it has worked very well for 200 years.

Informationally: the Founding Fathers wanted to restrict voting rights to those who owned property and it was a tough fight to keep that provision out of the constitution...but they did. The Founders also wanted to elect presidents by having congressional Representatives and Senators do the voting, not a popular eelection. That idea died, too. The feeling was that only educated, responsible people should be allowed to vote. I agree - but in reality that is a somewhat elitist concept and clearly less than democratic so all U.S. citizens who meet minimal qualifications of residence, age and no felony record can now vote.

Your turn will come next year. I trust that you'll appreciate and avail yourself of that privilege so many have fought and died to protect. I know that 'CupCake', when she becomes legally eligible, will be eager to vote and she sets a fine example for all of us in her appreciation of the freedom and rights in America that we take so casually as our due.

[rbohm]

Originally posted by bmxmon
I think that the electoral college is kinda BS. From what i remember from my us history class like a year or two ago, it was mostly created because most americans werent greatly informed on politics, information didnt travel real fast, so people couldnt make as good of decisions based on the small information that they received. And, I feel that the majority should be the ones to tell who the president is going to be. I dont think that States should either be entirely for one canidate or the other. If in one state 40,000 people voted for Bush, and 30,000 people voted for Kerry, then Bush would get that state. Lets say that state has 5 people in the electorial college. A different state, 10,000 people vote for kerry, and 5,000 people vote for Bush. Kerry gets one person. Next state, Kerry gets 15,000 votes, Bush gets 5,000. Kerry gets one more person in the electorial college. Now, Bush would have 50,000 votes, and 5 people in the electoral college. Kerry would have 55,000 votes, 2 people in the electoral college.

Fair??? not really. By the way, I would rather see Bush get reelected. But Im 17, so i dont matter, haha.

mr 50 is right, the electoral college was established to prevent a few population centers dictating who the president would be. if we went by popular vote alone, we would have pesident al gore now, and he would have been foisted upon the rest of the country by places like los angeles, new york city, san fransisco, and a few other liberal strongholds. sorry but i dont want a large number of people in a few places telling me who is going to be president. if that ever happens then the rest of the country need not vote, and we can just wait untill LA and new york city get done voting. i dont think you want that either. also your plan of splitting the ec vote in each state is an interesting plan, but not viable either as that is controlled by state election law not federal, and all it would take is one state to decide not to follow the rest to screw things up. as far as how ec members in each state are allowed to vote, most states have no laws regarding that, thus each party has their own set of delegates to the ec convention that are sworn to vote as the state populace has for the first ballot. there are a few states that do have laws that require ec delegatges to vote as the state populace did on the first ec ballot. if there is no winner (268 ec votes), then you go to a brokered convention where all ec delegates may vote as they choose. this has happened once in our history as i recall, and that was when president lincoln was voted into office the first time. at the time the required ec vote was 173(?), and none of the candidates had the required total. thus the brokered convention. on the second ballot lincoln tied with his counterpart in the democrat party with 171.5 ec votes(yes individual delegates can split their vote between candidates). thus the third vote which lincoln won with 173 votes. i dont recall the reason he picked up the 1.5 votes needed, but it had something to do with putting one of his opponents into his cabinet.

[bmxmon]

Alrighty, first off, sorry cupcake. Second, thanks for saying what you all said about the EC, it doesnt sound so bad anymore!! Always good to get a second perspective.

[CupCake]

No need to apologized. Maybe I wasn't very clear, I still say my country even if I don't live there anymore. I love both countries the same. Thanks 5 0. I will be proud of voting when I can and knowing that my opinion as small as it is count and maybe, just maybe can influence other people.

[bigwhitecobra]

Nevermind.


By the way, jackass', not only did I serve four years in the Marine Corps, I am very seriously concidering going to Iraq to help rebuild, and support our boys over there anyway I can. Say what ever you want about be, but don't question my patriotism. If there was a way I could trade my life for ANY and ALL the people that died on September 11, 2001 I would without thinking twice. Given the chance I would give up my life for any and all Americans that have had their lives cut short in war, combat or what have you.

Of course these are just words to you. They don't mean anything.

Whatever.