Corrupt Government?

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :

Before I start another flame war here, let me say this;

I am lucky to have been born here. This is the best place on Earth for me. I have been around the world and have seen many places that had very beautiful aspects, but none as heart warmingly beautiful.

I would fight and die for this country without hesitation. Not for the people that govern it. If called to fight, I fight for you. The people of this great country that have been dupped by our government.

We are but a heartbeat away from being a dictatorship. Say the wrong thing or see the wrong thing, and the FBI will wisk you away to some hole and "debrief" you. Or whatever happens when they come get you. (this is all speculation, of course) Make a negative comment about our government and even Mr. 50 will come after you. (couldn't resist mate. no harm intended) This country has forgotten why it was founded. Slave owners that wanted freedom....... Oh wait, that's not right.......

Oh dear. Your patriotic fervor was so inspiring there for awhile. Then you had to spoil it by putting on your tinfoil hat. Sigh.

Those who live in the freest county on earth and yet wish to believe that it's really nothing but a dark hellhole of corruption with a sinister government made up of evil people who lie in wait for you to 'slip up' so they can imprison you or worse, are apparently willing victims of the 'conspiracy mentality' that wish to believe that, like the Man Behind the Curtain in The Wizard of Oz, some top-down 'powerful forces' are behind everything that happens and the gulag awaits those who give even a whiff of trouble to the sinister 'government'. How sad.

This kind of pathetic delusion that tries to make modern America into George Orwell's '1984' prison is rampant around college campuses and of course, here on the internet, where anything goes...especially victimist nonsense.

I cannot help but resent the recent practice of mocking the brave men - once affectionately known as the Founding Fathers - who risked and lost both their fortunes and in many cases, their lives to establish the United States of America and to give us the best government ever devised who are now are derided by much lesser people as mere 'slave owners' and thus, dismissed, just as modern public school 'history' books do. Books that go on and on about slavery yet barely mention the hardship, the bloodshed and the loss of life that it cost to establish this nation apart from Great Britain.

Do you know why cocaine was made illegal? Any guesses at all? I know this is off subject, but it kinda goes along with what I'm saying. It wasn't because it was bad for you, it wasn't because cocaine was that addictive. Cocaine used to be as readily accessable as asprin. It was a Main ingrediant in Coca-Cola. Hence the name, Coca(as in COCAine)-Cola.

No it was more devious than that. Cocaine was made illegal simply because white men were afraid black men would use it in the south, and one of two things would happen. 1. Black men would make a profit off of it; and 2. Black men that use it might get all hyped up on it, and let's face it you do get pretty hyped, and have sex with white women.

Now personally, I have never, and will never use Cocaine. But for all the reasons to place a ban on something, this one is really f'n stupid.

So is mindless cursing to make some inane point but I noticed that you do it anyway. This little fantasy regarding the genesis of the process of declaring cocaine an addictive drug and thus, illegal for general consumption is a ridiculous exercise in looking for something to whine about, in my opinion. That it has a neat little racist twist makes it even more of a fallacy.

As I understand it, cocaine was being used in not only Coca-Cola but in a number of 'patent' medicnes available over-the-counter to anyone during the later 19th century. Many famous people used some form of cocaine for a number of reasons, including to fight depression and to gain more 'energy'. No one thought it was a problem. Eventually, a growing number of people were becoming addicted to both the 'medicines' and to cocaine, itself, as you would expect of any narcotic. It was quietly removed from Coca Cola in 1903. Medical doctors had noticed it's negative effects and complained to the new Food and Drug administration board. The Pure Food and Drug Act of 1904 and the Harrison Narcotic Act of 1914 effectively outlawed most uses of the drug. No loss.

The story about it being banned because 'the government' was 'afraid' that black men would make money from it and/or get high and rape white women is nonsensical. Some blacks may believe this and some racist whites may have believed it too, at one time, but that doesn't make it true. Some black people still profess to believe that 'white people' introduced AIDS to the black population - on purpose - in order to wipe out black people. Another fantasy that someone will probably be repeating 80 years from now, swearing that: IT'S TRUE! Just as you're repeating the 'cocaine' story you posted here.

What is wrong with our Government? It's a very simple answer, too simple actually. Greed. Greed for power, money, respect, you name it. "Beware the green eyed monster, for he shall devour you all." I don't know what that's from, but it fits in really well doesn't it?

It's from Shakespeare's 'Othello', spoken by the character Iago to Othello:

O beware, my lord, of jealousy! / It is the green-eyed monster, which doth mock / The meat it feeds on

As it's about jealousy, not greed, it really doesn't fit well at all.

Your simplistic analysis (that all problems in government are based in greed) is irrelevant as it's human nature to want power and wealth and no people or government is immune. From the ancient Greeks to the Romans to the Goths to the kingdoms of the world over the centuries, human greed is the constant but yet, in America, we manage to live very comfortable lives free of most of the fears and problems other nations have to deal with on a regular basis due to an oppressive government. This desire to see the land of the free, America, as an oppressive, devious and sinister place is very odd and rather foolish, in my opinion. The 'tinfoil hat mentality' is a waste of time and ignores all of our very real freedoms in order to maintain a fantasy that you know what's really going on and that it's baaaad. Right.

Anyway, the fix for our problem is even easier than answering the question above. The fix is to fire them all, and start over. Or as some would say, a COUP. But then another asshole would come into power and we'd still be screwed. So what to do? I leave that to you. Later.

Thanks for sharing. Please pay the cashier at the door.

[bigwhitecobra]

I didn't realize that you were such a closed minded, brain washed, Bible thumper. You have got to take those blinders off. My God man. Where have you been for the last......how old are you?

How can you not see that the rest of the world hates us? Here you need to check out this site. freedomunderground

Look up some of the things about Spetember 11, granted, some of what they have to offer is a bit out there, but other parts have chills running down your spine.

But ofcourse to you this is all mindless babble, and they are soooo out there. Blah blah blah, you're standard response to all things that don't agree with what you think. This is why I will not talk with you about GOD anymore.

Wake up.

[Mach 1]

Originally posted by Mr 5 0
Originally posted by Mach 1 :


[i]

The political freedoms we enjoy here in America are generally not equaled in other countries and in many cases, don't even come close. As for 'opportunity': no other nation has the kind of manifold possibilities for making a good living that America offers on a daily basis. Our college graduate rates, our per capita income levels and our yearly GNP (11 trillion dollars last year) all testify to the strength of the United State's economic power, acheived through our capitalist economic system that encourages innovation and offers opportunities for anyone with the ability, ambition and willingness to work to achieve their untimate potential.

Does America have 'faults'? Of course. Does America still present the best hope for those seeking personal and economic freedom? You bet - and the millions of immigrants that go to great lengths to get here every year attest to that ongoing reality.

There's very many democratic countrys out there. What am I missing? How many dictatorships are left in the world today? And what great benefit do we get from these great political freedoms? Vote for another crooked politician to replace the last one. Of course the idea is awesome, but the size of our govt., the fraud, waste and abuse of our tax dollars isnt going to change easily and probably never will. I just would like to see the wasted billions being put to good use, and I dont think thats unfair or too much to ask.

I had no idea that so many countries were so oppressive to thier people and limited thier potential. Shocking really. Just didnt see that in my travels. Our large size presents opportunities to the professional immigrants. What about all the illegal ones that get a free ride? Not to mention the terrorists who come here and stay with their outdated, illegal visa or passports. No wonder they come, easy to get in, and lots of jobs to take from americans who now have less opportunity.

Instead of importing doctors and engineers, why dont we take some of the wasted trillions and train our own people to do these jobs?

Our country is losing its identity. Have you been out of New England recently?

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :

I didn't realize that you were such a closed minded, brain washed, Bible thumper. You have got to take those blinders off. My God man. Where have you been for the last......how old are you?

Your juvenile name-calling (where did I mention religion in my previous posts on this thread) simply validates your immaturity and lack of understanding of that which you profess to know.

How can you not see that the rest of the world hates us? Here you need to check out this site.

Look up some of the things about Spetember 11, granted, some of what they have to offer is a bit out there, but other parts have chills running down your spine.

But of course to you this is all mindless babble, and they are soooo out there. Blah blah blah, you're standard response to all things that don't agree with what you think. This is why I will not talk with you about GOD anymore.

Wake up.

Right. As soon as you grow up. What are you? 18, 20?

You have latched on to a bunch of BS and think it is wisdom and knowledge. Naturally, you resent being called on it as you really have no basis for what you choose to believe. That's your folly and it's obvious to all.

As for God; you are the fellow who thinks the only real authority mankind has ever had for knowing about God and Christ - the bible - is 'inaccurate', corrupted by translation and the intent of evil men to mislead, yet you take the name of 'Christian'. That is ridiculous on it's face. Without the bible your alleged Christianity is a hollow shell. No wonder you don't wish to discuss that kind of irrationality, especially with one who does use the bible as his authority in spiritual matters and discussions about God.

Before you flippantly tell other people to 'wake up', try gaining more knowledge about America and it's history - especially including geopolitics - than you now possess. Then we'll talk. That you wish to take a cellphone to a gunfight and then get hurt is your problem. Your whining and name-calling won't hide it, either, so you can drop that juvenile line of response when you're challenged on some uninformed nonsense you choose to post on a nationally-seen messageboard. People will inevitably disagree with you and if you really can't handle it then don't post gibberish. It's a big world and you don't know much about it, that is clear. That you think you do is your fatal error.

Wise up.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by Mach 1 :

There's very many democratic countrys out there. What am I missing? How many dictatorships are left in the world today?

You're missing a lot so apparently you are either not as well-traveled as you believe or you are simply not very observant.

Dictatorships abound all over the world. Here are just some off the top of my head:

China, North Korea, Burma, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Cuba, Paraguay, Yeman, Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Egypt, Colombia, Malaysia, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, to name just a few. China, alone, is a brutal communist dictatorship of over one billion people, almost one-eighth of the world's total population. Surprised that you didn't notice, world traveler that you are. Add in the populations of the countries I listed (I left a few out, especially in Africa) and you proably have around a quarter of the world's people under some dictator, king or self-styled 'strongman' rule.

And what great benefit do we get from these great political freedoms? Vote for another crooked politician to replace the last one. Of course the idea is awesome, but the size of our govt., the fraud, waste and abuse of our tax dollars isnt going to change easily and probably never will. I just would like to see the wasted billions being put to good use, and I dont think thats unfair or too much to ask.

No, it isn't but your hyper-cynicism toward our government and it's manifest freedoms - including your constitutional right to criticize it here on the internet - is unwarranted. Not many Americans think they are oppressed or denied much by government and most expect even more, which is part of the problem, because, as President Reagan once said: "the government that is big enougfh to give you everything you want is also big enough to take it all away".

I had no idea that so many countries were so oppressive to thier people and limited thier potential. Shocking really. Just didnt see that in my travels. Our large size presents opportunities to the professional immigrants.

I've already addressed your woeful lack of knowlege regarding dictatorships around the world. Feel free to read the list again if necessary.

What about all the illegal ones that get a free ride? Not to mention the terrorists who come here and stay with their outdated, illegal visa or passports. No wonder they come, easy to get in, and lots of jobs to take from americans who now have less opportunity.

I agree that illegal immigration and our porous borders are a real threat to our national economy and our national security. Even so, that fact doesn't make American government the disaster you have tried to portray here.

Instead of importing doctors and engineers, why dont we take some of the wasted trillions and train our own people to do these jobs?

We (America) import doctors and engineers because they are in short supply here. Both academic disciplines are very difficult and too many America college students either can't do the work or don't want to. It's so much easier to wallow in 'Feminist studies' and 'Black History' than to do the work that results in solid grasp of science and math, necerssary to obtain a medical degree or an engineering certification. Schools that teach people how to become doctors and engineers exist and always have but applicants either don't meet the rigorious standards necessary to qualify for a spot or would-be students do not apply. Film school is so much more attractive, as are 'communications' and 'art' degrees. Hence: we import doctors and engineers or medical and engineering students, in most cases.

Our country is losing its identity. Have you been out of New England recently?

Yes and yes but xenophobia will get you nowhere these days. Don't even go there.

[Dark_5.0]

Originally posted by Mach 1 :



"There's very many democratic countrys out there. What am I missing? How many dictatorships are left in the world today?"


Originally posted by Mr 5 0


"Dictatorships abound all over the world. Here are just some off the top of my head:

China, North Korea, Burma, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Cuba, Paraguay, Yeman, Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Egypt, Colombia, Malaysia, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, to name just a few. China, alone, is a brutal communist dictatorship of over one billion people, almost one-eighth of the world's total population. Surprised that you didn't notice, world traveler that you are. Add in the populations of the countries I listed (I left a few out, especially in Africa) and you proably have around a quarter of the world's people under some dictator, king or self-styled 'strongman' rule."

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!

[Mach 1]

Originally posted by Mr 5 0

[i]

Dictatorships abound all over the world. Here are just some off the top of my head:

China, North Korea, Burma, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Cuba, Paraguay, Yeman, Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Egypt, Colombia, Malaysia, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, to name just a few. China, alone, is a brutal communist dictatorship of over one billion people, almost one-eighth of the world's total population. Surprised that you didn't notice, world traveler that you are. Add in the populations of the countries I listed (I left a few out, especially in Africa) and you proably have around a quarter of the world's people under some dictator, king or self-styled 'strongman' rule.

[i]

Ok, I guess what I said and the point I was trying to make didnt come across as the same. Outside of the communist and third world countries you mention, there is plenty of freedom to be found outside of America.


[i][/B][/QUOTE]

No, it isn't but your hyper-cynicism toward our government and it's manifest freedoms - including your constitutional right to criticize it here on the internet - is unwarranted. Not many Americans think they are oppressed or denied much by government and most expect even more, which is part of the problem, because, as President Reagan once said: "the government that is big enougfh to give you everything you want is also big enough to take it all away".

[i][/B][/QUOTE]

I have been down lately and have developed a negative outlook, but our government certainly isnt perfect in a lot of areas, and Im not afraid to mention the negatives. Dont get me started on the legal system thats been screwing me around unjustly for the last year...

[i][/B][/QUOTE]

I agree that illegal immigration and our porous borders are a real threat to our national economy and our national security. Even so, that fact doesn't make American government the disaster you have tried to portray here.

[i][/B][/QUOTE]

We (America) import doctors and engineers because they are in short supply here. Both academic disciplines are very difficult and too many America college students either can't do the work or don't want to. It's so much easier to wallow in 'Feminist studies' and 'Black History' than to do the work that results in solid grasp of science and math, necerssary to obtain a medical degree or an engineering certification. Schools that teach people how to become doctors and engineers exist and always have but applicants either don't meet the rigorious standards necessary to qualify for a spot or would-be students do not apply. Film school is so much more attractive, as are 'communications' and 'art' degrees. Hence: we import doctors and engineers or medical and engineering students, in most cases.

[i] [/B][/QUOTE]


Agreed. But I think our education system could be improved greatly, and I dont feel I made our govt. out to be a disaster, just mentioning some areas that need work

[bigwhitecobra]

Your juvenile name-calling (where did I mention religion in my previous posts on this thread) simply validates your immaturity and lack of understanding of that which you profess to know.

Well, you got me there.

You have latched on to a bunch of BS and think it is wisdom and knowledge. Naturally, you resent being called on it as you really have no basis for what you choose to believe. That's your folly and it's obvious to all.

Don't speak for anyone other than yourself. I don't speak for anyone other than myself. I see now that you are obviously one of great intelligence, and are indeed well educated. However, that does not mean that you, or I for that matter, know anything about what you speak. All I want to know from you is that you will at least question what the people in power tell you. If you choose to believe the crap they spew out, so be it. That's all on you. As for me, I like to look deeper.

One question for you, have you ever lied about anything? Ever?

As for God; you are the fellow who thinks the only real authority mankind has ever had for knowing about God and Christ - the bible - is 'inaccurate', corrupted by translation and the intent of evil men to mislead, yet you take the name of 'Christian'. That is ridiculous on it's face. Without the bible your alleged Christianity is a hollow shell. No wonder you don't wish to discuss that kind of irrationality, especially with one who does use the bible as his authority in spiritual matters and discussions about God.

You must be the perfect Republican.

Right. As soon as you grow up. What are you? 18, 20?

29 actually, but to make your superior intellect feel better, sure...I'm 18-20. Whatever that has to do with it.



One day the truth will smack you in the face and you won't have a choice but to accept it. Until then, Baa baa.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by Mach 1

Ok, I guess what I said and the point I was trying to make didnt come across as the same. Outside of the communist and third world countries you mention, there is plenty of freedom to be found outside of America.

There are socialist governments all over the world including Canada, Mexico and most of Europe but nowhere does any nations citizens have the rights and freedoms Americans have. England, for instance, while quite 'free' and in many ways similar to the United States, has no Bill of Rights, as America does. Few - if any - other nations do, in fact. France, Germany and Japan all have democratic governments but they are quite different democracies than what we practice in America and their socialist economies hold down their citizens abilities to prosper as much as they could, if they were unfettered by restrictive laws and exorbitant taxation on both business and individuals. In short: while a good portion of the world can be considered 'free', no nation affords it citizens the constitutional rights, legal protections and financial opportunities that America does.

I have been down lately and have developed a negative outlook, but our government certainly isnt perfect in a lot of areas, and Im not afraid to mention the negatives. Dont get me started on the legal system thats been screwing me around unjustly for the last year...

We all have our problems and I know that even a speeding ticket can send people off on an anti-police, anti-government rant. That doesn't necessarily reflect the reality. Of course our county has 'negatives'. It always has and always will. The difference is that America and it's people can - and have - evolved over time. We cast off slavery and that was a major hurdle. Then, racial discrimination had to be overcome, and it has, for the most part. That's America. We live and we DO learn.

Agreed. But I think our education system could be improved greatly, and I dont feel I made our govt. out to be a disaster, just mentioning some areas that need work

Our education system has problems, primarily in the public school system and the costs of college are getting ridiculous. That noted: I saw your comments as very negative toward a county that I see as the best place in the world to live and work and raise a family. Our freedoms and our opportunites to explore our personal possibilites are unlike that of any other country on earth. Beyond our very high standard of living we also have a govenment that is subject to change by the will of the people, as it has over the centuries. No human government will ever be perfect or please everyone all the time but the American form of representative democracy is the best yet seen and until something else comes along that can improve on it, I will always defend America to anyone, especially another American, even while stipulating that it has some faults and shortcomings.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :

Well, you got me there.

I accept your surrender.

Don't speak for anyone other than yourself. I don't speak for anyone other than myself. I see now that you are obviously one of great intelligence, and are indeed well educated. However, that does not mean that you, or I for that matter, know anything about what you speak. All I want to know from you is that you will at least question what the people in power tell you. If you choose to believe the crap they spew out, so be it. That's all on you. As for me, I like to look deeper.

If you don't know what you are commenting on, you might just as well not comment. We all have opinions but when they are based on breathless, tabloid-style conspiracy theories they are basically rendered as invalid. Questioning authority is admirable and often necessary but when it's done as a knee-jeck reaction based on 'conspiracy theory' attitudes it is of little to no value to you or anyone else.

One question for you, have you ever lied about anything? Ever?

Yes, and so has the Pope. Does that make the Catholic faith invalid? I think not. The fact that government officials have lied to the people on occasion does not automatically render conspiracy theories valid or ipso facto government invalid and inherently untrustworthy.

You must be the perfect Republican.

I'm not sure what that remark is intended to convey but informationally: I am a Christian conservative who supports the Republican party - most of the time.

29 actually, but to make your superior intellect feel better, sure...I'm 18-20. Whatever that has to do with it.

Your name-calling response when you are challenged on anything you post here is very immature, that's why I asked. Do you think you are more mature at 29 then you were at 18? I would hope so. Try acting like it and drop the lame attempts at sarcasm. You have no talent for it at all and it makes you appear immature, despite your chronological age.

One day the truth will smack you in the face and you won't have a choice but to accept it. Until then, Baa baa.

One day you will mature enough to realize how ridiculous some of your comments here and the theories they are based on really are. Until then: We have your number so don't call us, we'll call you. Thanks for stopping by.

[Rev]

Originally posted by bigwhitecobra
So what if my communication skills aren't up to par, and my vocabulary isn't as vast as yours. Unlike you I haven't quite the time to read every tiny little tid bit of information essentually from the same source. By that I mean Officail Press Releases that have been censored to death. I should read and listen more, but I have a life to live. Not to say that you don't, however you do seem to spend an awful lot of time replying to these posts. Again....not doing anything but stating the obvious from an outside view. You must be really anal retentive. Are you married? Is your wife satisfied? Do you get freaky in bed? I'm not trying to be an jerk, just wondering. No more or less. Actually I sort of don't want to know. And just to make myself clear here, I AM NOT ATTACKING YOU. Nor am I trying to piss you off. Just trying to understand your train of thought, cause quite frankly you leave me flabbergasted. My mind just can't wrap itself around the concept of complete trust in people that we know lie to us, do anything it takes to get our votes, and then ignore us completely. I'm really having trouble with that.

Yeah, I do act 18 sometimes. So what? You should be so lucky. I am never going to grow old, as long as I am young at heart. Why do you think this site was formed? For the love of a Car you or we had in high school. How immature is that?

As far as conspiracy goes, if not trusting those in power makes me a wacko, so be it. I don't trust them.

Hope this clears up some of you concerns. And thank you for voicing them.


Yours Truely,

BWC

Don't take anything too seriously here BWC on a political issue. Jim Sweeters is sreally an OK guy from what I've seen over the last 5 years. He is well educated and writes very well.

My impression is that he is mostly a John Bircher / religeous right kind of guy that thinks he has everything pretty much figured out. He really doesn't tolerate apposing opinions very well.

My bet is that he was captain of the debate team in highschool and in college. He seems to see any differing opinion as an opportunity for debate rather than an opportunity for examining another point of view.

He is rather well read, well informed, and debates very well. I wish he would be a little less arrogant in his responses. There are other intelligent people here with valid opinions that might not exactly coincide with his views.

Slightly less strident responses could actually strengthen some of Jim's responses IMHO. Actually, I tend to agree on many points that he expresses. At any rate, I'm happy to see some spirited discussion at MW.

I sometimes wonder if Jim has ever read the Declaration of Independence? Some would see it as a seditious document.

Rev

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by Rev :

Don't take anything too seriously here BWC on a political issue. Jim Sweeters is really an OK guy from what I've seen over the last 5 years. He is well educated and writes very well.

My impression is that he is mostly a John Bircher / religeous right kind of guy that thinks he has everything pretty much figured out. He really doesn't tolerate apposing opinions very well.

Excuse me, but I believe my name has been mentioned. That being the case, I would like to respond.

Mr. 5.0, a Christian conservative, gets a bellyfull of liberal drivel every day on the internet and in response, he sometimes posts factual and cogent messages in opposition to liberal canards and fallacies. That Mr. 5.0 has to read and consider these messages from liberals belies the contention that he does not 'tolerate' opposing opinions'. 'Accepting as fact' and 'tolerating' are far different and you should know that, Rev.

My bet is that he was captain of the debate team in highschool and in college. He seems to see any differing opinion as an opportunity for debate rather than an opportunity for examining another point of view.

See above response.

He is rather well read, well informed, and debates very well. I wish he would be a little less arrogant in his responses. There are other intelligent people here with valid opinions that might not exactly coincide with his views.

Perhaps Mr. 5.0 is weary of liberal political nonsense on stilts parading as fact and truth on the internet. Perhaps he has been castigated and called any number of foul names when opposing such tripe and occasionally chooses to respond in kind, as is his right, within site posting rules. Perhaps he also waits for an opposing view to be posted before posting his own, contrary opinion thus making charges of non-toleration of other views invalid and obviously specious. Again: acceptance and toleration are not the same or even close. I 'tolerate' liberal views all the time - but I do not 'accept' them. An obvious difference.

Slightly less strident responses could actually strengthen some of Jim's responses IMHO. Actually, I tend to agree on many points that he expresses. At any rate, I'm happy to see some spirited discussion at MW.

Slightly less uninformed and belligerent messages in response to mine could actually strengthen liberal responses. The premise that anything I write that is even slightly sarcastic in response to some liberal bilge somehow undermines my point is palpable nonsense, IMHO. If I didn't respond to some of these people there would be little to no discussion here at all. That is painfully obvious.

I sometimes wonder if Jim has ever read the Declaration of Independence? Some would see it as a seditious document.

I love it when I'm accused of being 'strident' by someone who, in the next paragraph is condescending enough to then pretend to 'wonder' if I've ever read the Declaration of Independence. The hypocrisy in that one comment is glaring and you should be embarrassed by it, Rev.

The liberal's knee-jerk response to conservative opinion is always the same: it's 'mean', it's 'unfair' and so, it somehow deprives some uninformed liberal of his right to broadcast his dearth of knowledge on the internet without challenges. They wish.

Liberals can't take what they are ever willing to dish out: condescending sarcasm, arrogant assertations that their opinion is the only correct one and a lack of toleration for opposing views. Facts are not their friends and they bristle when they are challenged on their assertations. The proof is right here on this thread. My pointed challenges to ridiculous comments are often met with name-calling and then, condescending posts like yours, Rev. If you so enjoy 'spirited discussion' as you claimed, then don't find fault when the discussion doesn't always end up the way you might believe that it should.

It's the internet. Don't take it too seriously or you'll go mad. I use it as a hobby to blow off silly liberals and those who post what I consider nonsense masquarading as truth. I try to inform the uninformed and teach those without knowledge. I hope that I make a few people think. It's fun for me and when it gets nasty or boring, I stop posting and life goes on. Thus it ever was and will be.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :

So what if my communication skills aren't up to par, and my vocabulary isn't as vast as yours.

Thanks for your honesty.

Unlike you I haven't quite the time to read every tiny little tid bit of information essentually from the same source. By that I mean Officail Press Releases that have been censored to death. I should read and listen more, but I have a life to live. Not to say that you don't, however you do seem to spend an awful lot of time replying to these posts. Again....not doing anything but stating the obvious from an outside view.

Thanks for your continued honesty about being uninformed and ill-equipped to debate current issues.

You must be really anal retentive. Are you married? Is your wife satisfied? Do you get freaky in bed? I'm not trying to be an jerk, just wondering. No more or less.

No need to try being a jerk, that sentence proves that your being a jerk is obviously an innate character trait. Thanks for proving it, once again.

Actually I sort of don't want to know. And just to make myself clear here, I AM NOT ATTACKING YOU.

Yes, smarmy, insulting 'questions' about my sex life and my wife could never be seen as an attack. Nooooo.

I think you've shown us all what you are and should leave this thread before you get banned for violation of the messageboard rules. Posting snotty, idiotic insults that you somehow think you can excuse by typing (in CAPS) that you're 'not attacking me' is so juvenile and transparent that it flabbergasts even me. Give it up.

[MacT]

If it happens again BWC is history. Please keep personal attacks to yourself rather than in the public eye.

[Rev]

Originally posted by Mr 5 0


i]

I love it when I'm accused of being 'strident' by someone who, in the next paragraph is condescending enough to then pretend to 'wonder' if I've ever read the Declaration of Independence. The hypocrisy in that one comment is glaring and you should be embarrassed by it, Rev.

The liberal's knee-jerk response to conservative opinion is always the same: it's 'mean', it's 'unfair' and so, it somehow deprives some uninformed liberal of his right to broadcast his dearth of knowledge on the internet without challenges. They wish.

Liberals can't take what they are ever willing to dish out: condescending sarcasm, arrogant assertations that their opinion is the only correct one and a lack of toleration for opposing views. Facts are not their friends and they bristle when they are challenged on their assertations. The proof is right here on this thread. My pointed challenges to ridiculous comments are often met with name-calling and then, condescending posts like yours, Rev. If you so enjoy 'spirited discussion' as you claimed, then don't find fault when the discussion doesn't always end up the way you might believe that it should.

It's the internet. Don't take it too seriously or you'll go mad. I use it as a hobby to blow off silly liberals and those who post what I consider nonsense masquarading as truth. I try to inform the uninformed and teach those without knowledge. I hope that I make a few people think. It's fun for me and when it gets nasty or boring, I stop posting and life goes on. Thus it ever was and will be. [/B]

I didn't mean to be condescending to Jim Sweeters, Mr 50. I thought I was merely pointing out some strengths and weaknesses since he is a major contributor to this thread. I realize that he does endure personal attacks which are certainly uncalled for, perhaps accounting somewhat for his "stridency"..

He does refer to those who disagree with him (or their opinions) as mindless, ungrateful, self centered, simplistic, juvenile, flippant, whining, uninformed, gibberish, unobservant, tabloid style, immature, rediculous, drivel, specious, and hypocritical.

My friends and family would certainly get a kick out of the thought that I was much in the way of being a "liberal". I might be in some social areas such as constitutionaly guaranteed civil liberties, abortion rights, etc. but am mostly conservative in nature.

I mentioned the Declaration of Independence because it actually says that the American public can seize control of the government if necessary to keep a free society. Of course that was before the constitution was in effect. I did wonder if Jim had read it and what he thought about it?

I really didn't have an expectation as to how this thread would turn out and I did enjoy the spirited discussion and really didn't mean any harm toward anyone. I do realize that it's the internet and that one will see a variety of opinions and styles of posting. I'm glad that Jim and the rest of us enjoy it.

Rev

[Rev]

Originally posted by MacT
If it happens again BWC is history. Please keep personal attacks to yourself rather than in the public eye.

Threats of exclusion from the site should be made privately in IMHO. The actual exclusion of a member from MW has occurred in the distant past. Take my word for it, it wasn't a pretty scenario and caused a fair amount of dissension here at MW. My feeling is that any reprimand should be in an email or PM and not made publicly for all the world to see. That usually just backs a person into a corner and forces him to take some kind of defensive stand whether he wants to or not. At least that's what has occurred in the past.

Rev

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by Rev :

I didn't mean to be condescending to Jim Sweeters, Mr 50. I thought I was merely pointing out some strengths and weaknesses since he is a major contributor to this thread. I realize that he does endure personal attacks which are certainly uncalled for, perhaps accounting somewhat for his "stridency".

He does refer to those who disagree with him (or their opinions) as mindless, ungrateful, self centered, simplistic, juvenile, flippant, whining, uninformed, gibberish, unobservant, tabloid style, immature, rediculous, drivel, specious, and hypocritical.

I call ridiculous mindless, immature, simplistic, juvenile, flippant, whining, unobservant, tabloid-style uninformed, specioius, hypocritical, gibberish and drivel from self-centered, ungrateful posters exactly what it is. It's axiomatic that some of the people my comments are directed to don't like to receive contrary comments. They wish to post their often strange opinions with no rebuttal or challenge and when they can't get away with doing so they leap into the basest mode of communication: making smarmy comments about my sex life, for instance. If that isn't 'immature drivel' I don't know what is. Thankfully, it always reflects far worse on the originator than on the intended receipent. It can even get you banned here.

My friends and family would certainly get a kick out of the thought that I was much in the way of being a "liberal". I might be in some social areas such as constitutionaly guaranteed civil liberties, abortion rights, etc. but am mostly conservative in nature.

I call them the way I see them, Rev. I commend you for having the good sense to have rejected at least some of the tenets of liberalism, a failed ideology that has done far more harm than good in the past 70 years. However, your 'social' views appear to be right in line with the liberal ideology so the term 'liberal', at least when applied to you, is not as mistaken as you might wish to believe. Meanwhile, I remain a conservative and need not resort to nuances and exceptions in order to define my political ideology.

I mentioned the Declaration of Independence because it actually says that the American public can seize control of the government if necessary to keep a free society. Of course that was before the constitution was in effect. I did wonder if Jim had read it and what he thought about it?

Of course I've read it. Many times. Your asking the question is odd, at best, and I took it to be superciliousness on your part. Perhaps I was mistaken. Let's assume that for now and move on.

In any case, we all know (or should know) that the Declaration of Independence outlined what the framers believed the obligation of government consisted of, which, in their minds, was to protect individual liberties and defend the rights of the people. If and when it failed to do so, the people, who are the government - in a democracy - have a moral, God-given right to dissolve that government. Thomas Jefferson believed this and so did the rest of the signers of the Declaration of Independence.

Of course, that was 228 years ago when less than 3 million mostly homogeneous people - most of them working on farms - and 13 colonies made up what was called ' America'. We are the strongest nation on earth, militarily and economically, and we have two centuies of history behind us now, including a civil war and two 'world' wars. America has a population almost 100 times what it was in 1776 and a very diverse population it is, made up of almost entirely of immigrants or people who are descended from immigrants, not the British subjects that the Declaration was written to represent. However, the basic principle of democracy still holds true: that the government is empowered by the people and can be dissolved by the people. How 'the people' would go about that - dissolving the federal government - without a civil war, is not clear. That the citizens of today's America have any real interest in doing so is also not very obvious to me.

We all want government to conform to our personal values and political ideology but it never totally has been able to do so - and it never will. Political parties, the electoral system and our represenative democracy appear to be doing an adequate job on most levels that affect the majority of us. I think the federal judiciary is out of control but even that sad stste of affairs could be fixed by the political, legislative process if we ever get fed up enhough to demand it, which I think is possible.

I really didn't have an expectation as to how this thread would turn out and I did enjoy the spirited discussion and really didn't mean any harm toward anyone. I do realize that it's the internet and that one will see a variety of opinions and styles of posting. I'm glad that Jim and the rest of us enjoy it.

I do enjoy posting (as my time permits) but I don't really post to just one person. I could use a PM or e-mail for that. I post reply messages for whomever reads the message and that is far more than the individual I'm responding to. I write a bit of political commentary for internet political websites and I also spend the majority of my internet time on political forums elsewhere and I have a fairly large potential 'audience' there.

I take the insults and name-calling with a grain of salt and always consider the source. Most of the insulting responses I receive on the internet are from uninformed folks who wouldn't dare say the same things to my face, I'm sure. I always try respond in kind, just to keep the other person cognizant of their error. When a poster responds to one of my messages thoughtfully and politely, I try to always reply in the same tone. However, when I'm mocked, insulted and called names, I use sarcasm and derision fairly effectively, I believe. I find it ironic that when a liberal insults me he's basically ignored and yet when I reply to those kinds of insults with some form of disdain, I'm chided for being 'strident', etc. It appears that decorum and civility are expected to be a one-way street for conservatives. Well, we're used to that double-standard but I still disagree with the concept on principle.

Thanks for your interest and comments, Rev. I do my best to keep things 'spirited' wherver I go. The BOL on MW is no exception.

[CupCake]

You might say that America is not the envy of the world, you know there is a reason why I moved here, the reason is that I came looking for the american dream and you know what??? I found it!!! You will never understand until you have to live in a country that doesn't have anything and the people is starving. You don't understand this becuase you have everything you want and if you don't you can compain about it, I am tired of listening all this "americans" whine about how bad is their country. Sometimes it seems that people that are not americans and they have to go to hell and back to get some paper to be able to even be here are more americans than the real ones. STOP WHINING and see how good you have it!

[Mach 1]

not everybody has it good and we americans have plenty of valid reasons to whine. glad you found your dream here, but it doesnt mean everybody has.

[rwhite65]

It is impossible to make an entire group happy. Since when have we all been totally satisfied with the new mustangs? There are a lot of things about this country I would like to see improved. But...the fact that we do not have to worry about meeting the same fate those poor people are meeting when they are beheaded.....makes me very, very happy to be an American.
Ryan