I think I pissed a few people off.....

[RPM427]

I think they are a little pissed

http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...089#post988089

[Mr 5 0]

Moved - not tech.

Charming exchange there on LS1 but what did you expect, praise for the Cobra from hard-core Chevy guys?

I don't think so.

I never saw much benefit in going to Chevy sites and starting these flame wars. No one ever 'wins' and they always end up with everyone screaming 'F-U' - in bold CAPS with fifty exclamation points following. Possibly fun once or twice, pointless after that and we don't tolerate it here so please don't bring these LS1 people to our site to flame and rant as it just makes more work for the moderators and me when we have to clean it up by editing or closing threads and banning folks from the site.

We don't need it.

Let the Chevy people wallow in their own fantasies and have their rants on their site. As long as they stay off this board with that anti-Ford BS, I don't care much what the latest Chevy runs. The track and the street will settle it, not a bunch of screaming messageboard rants.

That said; the '03 Cobra is one fast production car and the Chevy guys have good reason to be nervous and defensive. Tough.

[tireburner163]

genious, pure genious

[Dark_5.0]

Sorry dude but to me you make no since at all. If a new cobra showed up at my local track running a 12.6 he would still see alot of LS1 taillights.

The Cobra is a cool and fast car, but an LS1 with just bolt ons can run 11's and still come in cheaper than the cobra.

Considering most of the people that buy the Cobra will be 50+...I dont think the LS1 guys need to be nervous I think seeing a new cobra at the track will be rare.

Going to there board and saying the new Cobra is gonna kick your @ss is like saying my big brother is gonna beat you up.

It would make since if you had a new Cobra and were calling them out or something.

Noone likes a troll. JMO

[Mustangbelle306]

Originally posted by Dark_5.0
Sorry dude but to me you make no since at all. If a new cobra showed up at my local track running a 12.6 he would still see alot of LS1 taillights.

The Cobra is a cool and fast car, but an LS1 with just bolt ons can run 11's and still come in cheaper than the cobra.

I've always heard quite the opposite...that the LS1 is produced to be fast stock, but doesn't respond as well to bolt ons as a Mustang. In fact, if I remember correctly, that's one of the most frequent reasoning I hear for buying a Mustang over a Camaro...I thought that the LSI is pretty opened up and has higher compression from the factory, and needs more of a push to get into the lower 1/4 ETs, i.e. 11s.

[andy669]

Originally posted by Mr 5 0

Moved - not tech.

I wish you could move this thread to another board. We all know what Mustang site this type of thread belongs on.

Andy

[explicitone]

the only thing I dont get is the fact is it just fine for them to talk all kinds of smack when the come from the factory with 10-1 compr. and almost 60 more cubic incs. so ford throws a supercharger on to make up for and now its not fair they have superchargers from the factory ..grow up and talking well a modded ls1 will take it but cobra is stock I say a mag do a story give a 03 cobra owner 5000$ and a ls1 5000$ and see who comes out on top then there is no more modded vs stock lets see what they do modded vs modded with the same amount spent so that cant be any he spent more money on this car or any of that blah.blah..blah... crap
but thats just my thoughts on the subject

[The Deuce]

I'll beat em all with my Interceptor. And I'm giving up cubes, blower, and hp. Don't mind my slight weight advantage. Seriously, shame on you for telling them where you came from. Shoulda said you were a member of one of those 'ohter' sites.

[Dark_5.0]

Originally posted by Mustangbelle306


I've always heard quite the opposite...that the LS1 is produced to be fast stock, but doesn't respond as well to bolt ons as a Mustang. In fact, if I remember correctly, that's one of the most frequent reasoning I hear for buying a Mustang over a Camaro...I thought that the LSI is pretty opened up and has higher compression from the factory, and needs more of a push to get into the lower 1/4 ETs, i.e. 11s.

Its simple you heard wrong....They respond better to mods than any car ever made IMO.

They can knock off damn near a second with a torque converter and gears.........then add a lid, exhaust and all the other bolt on crap and you have a super fast car.

I frequent the track and all I can say about the LS1 is Wow!!.....Very mildly modded they hit 12's and with gears and converters 11's come easy.

I am at 3000ft and 90% of the LS1's I see at the track run low 13's or better.

There is a guy running a 10.8 with a cam and all the bolt ons,gears,converter.........

The LS1's are fun to race..I enjoy the competition.......On the other hand I rarely lose to the 99+GT's..

Later,

Originally posted by Dark_5.0




They can knock off damn near a second with a torque converter and gears.........then add a lid, exhaust and all the other bolt on crap and you have a super fast car.

I frequent the track and all I can say about the LS1 is Wow!!.....Very mildly modded they hit 12's and with gears and converters 11's come easy.

I am at 3000ft and 90% of the LS1's I see at the track run low 13's or better.

There is a guy running a 10.8 with a cam and all the bolt ons,gears,converter.........

The LS1's are fun to race..I enjoy the competition.......On the other hand I rarely lose to the 99+GT's..

Later,

hmmm i learn something new everyday

[PKRWUD]

I hate to say it, but Dark_5.0 is right. I work on a lot of Mustangs, but I work on a lot of other cars, too, including Camaros. They simply respond better to mods. If you were looking for the best bang for the buck, then Camaro wins, hands down. But to me, there is alot more to owning a vehicle than simply bang for the buck. I don't own either one, and I doubt I ever will. I'm much more into sleepers, and more uncommon vehicles, but between the two, I would much rather own a slower Mustang than a faster Camaro. The Camaros just went ugly. It has to be faster, because no one in their right mind would want to be seen in one. The Mustang, on the other hand, get's better and better looking every year, IMO, with the exception of the Mustang II years.

As far as pushrod V8's are concerned, the LS1 blows the 5.0 away. It's not even close. Ford's technology sucked, and they made some really stupid errors that should have been corrected. There are not enough bolts holding the heads on, the intake manifold has no end support, the oil pump sump is a joke (but that's the price you pay for putting the distributor in the front, where the oil RUNS AWAY FROM when you accelerate), and damn near every one of them leaks oil in front of the intake, above the oil filter. BOTH of their V8 firing orders have sequentially fired cylinders that are next to each other on the same bank. That is a BIG no-no. The angle of the V that the Windsor block has is way to narrow, forcing the exhaust to take a very sharp, restrictive angle when it exits the engine, and inhibiting the intake charge from getting to the combustion chambers smoothly. There are more, but you get the idea. The LS1 was a step in the right direction, by improving on an engine that has won more races, and outlasted more engines, than any other.

Ford's saving grace was two-fold: First, for the most part, their cars and trucks always looked better. Most people would rather be seen in a Ford, but liked the power of a Chevy. Second was the fact that they went all out on their development of the modular engine. Chevy won't be able to touch it, and before long, will find themselves in a very bad situation. The future is Ford's modular engines, and they all ready have a 12 year head start over everybody else.

Now, before any of you jump up on your high horses and start bashing on me, remember where it is that I am. I am here. I love this site, and I love Mustangs. I also love Fords. But it is the truth that I put the very highest value on, and it is the truth that I have expressed here.

Peace.

Take care,
-Chris

[Mustangbelle306]

Originally posted by PKRWUD
I hate to say it, but Dark_5.0 is right. I work on a lot of Mustangs, but I work on a lot of other cars, too, including Camaros. They simply respond better to mods. If you were looking for the best bang for the buck, then Camaro wins, hands down.

As far as pushrod V8's are concerned, the LS1 blows the 5.0 away. It's not even close.

I really don't think anyone is going to be upset because you say that the LS1 (first available in the Z28 in 1998) is better and faster technology than the 5.0 (last available in 1995). That's obvious.

You don't own a Mustang? How did you ever end up here then?

Hey, its all cool by me. I've heard that line from every single 98+ 'Maro driver I know...so due to their ignorance, I'm already ahead of the game, crappy engine design be damned!

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by Mustangbelle306
You don't own a Mustang? How did you ever end up here then?

Hehe, I first came here looking for info for a customers car several years ago. I ended up in the forums, and couldn't get over some of the answers I was seeing to alot of the questions. I started answering some of them correctly, and before I knew it, I was hooked. I even offered to leave when someone became uptight at the fact that I don't own a Mustang, but the overwhelming response was for me to stay, so I pretty much did.

Take care,
-Chris

And real glad you did chris......

[srv1]

i dont understand some of these threads. how do you compare and LS1 motor to a 5.0 motor? 80's technology vs. mid 90's technology! come on people! just think, if they still produced the pushrod five liter today, it would be just as good as or better than the LS1 motors(excluding Explorer five liters). it seems some people are comparing apples to oranges. and yes the LS1's DO respond well with mods. when the fuelie five liter came out in 86, do you think the engineers were thinking of people modding it? no, not really. the market simply wasnt there at the time as it is today. so the GM engineers work with this idea in mind due to the performence industry of the 90's.
Ford got smart. made it smaller and more powerful. 5.0 is 200 at the rear, the 4.6 2v 230 at the rear(roughly). well to me, that sounds right. the only thing for did wrong was not to make the 5.4 standard in the Stangs(excluding the 2000 R). you know what the 2000 R does, so take that motor, put it in a live axle SN and tweak the motor a bit and see what it would do to an LS1! i hope you (some of you) get the picture.

Chris is totally correct. cant compare 80's vs. 90's technology. but what i can say is this. Ford did a way better job of matching their components on the 5.0 in the 80's than Chevy did in the Camaro's in the 80's.

[Dark_5.0]

I hear what you are saying SRV1. I was just setting the record straight.

[andy669]

Originally posted by PKRWUD
I'm much more into sleepers, and more uncommon vehicles,

You mean like that 70's something Oldsmobuick you posted a picture of a few months ago?.. hehhee...... That thing kinda reminds me of the cop car with the two nitrous bottles in the Chris Farley movie Black Sheep..... hehehhe...

Honestly though, I thought your car was very cool!

On the arguement of LS-1 versus 5.0 and the defense of 80's technology versus 90's technology: I think the most major change to LS-1 was the intake side port design on the heads. Ford 5.0's have been using the same basic port design since the inception of the 289/302. Taking that into account, one could argue that its 90's versus 60's technology.

Through the years the 302 has evolved just like the 350 chevy. They were both treated with fuel injection at about the same time, and they both got roller cams. I'm not sure what year the chevys got roller cams, but we all know when ford introduced it!

I'm going to post a picture tonight or tomorrow of a LS-1 intake port off of my friends Z06. If you've never seen one before, you will be surprised!

Andy

[The Deuce]

Uncommon vehicles Chris? Yeah, you've had some different ones. I would like to get a Falcon Sprint (I've almost bought three different ones), Merc Cyclone, or Maurader (the old ones). All three can use many of the Mustang go fast parts, but people aren't quite sure if the cars are going to be fast or not, until you hear them start.

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by The Deuce
Uncommon vehicles Chris? Yeah, you've had some different ones.

That's just what works for me. I like to be different, I guess. Kinda like my tats (well, except the Harley one that I woke up with). My own design. I'm not going to be standing in line at Magic Mountain and see it on some other guys arm.

Same thing.

Take care,
-Chris

I don't consider a stall convertor a bolt-on. I don't consider a cam a bolt-on. I don't consider a 12 bolt Moser a bolt-on. I went and checked out LS1's top 100 to see what was getting these cars into the 11s and they all have more than bolt-ons. They either have nos, blowers, worked heads w/cam or some combination of those. You can do the same thing to the 5.0 and I'd have to say the 5.0 responses better to mods(bigger gains), stock. It starts out with real restrictive heads so basically any decent after market heads will show tremendous gains. There are 5.0s that are NA that run in the 11s. There is a guy on my route that has a 99 LS1 with all the 'bolt-ons' and he says he runs a high 12. He just got n2o so now he is expecting some 11s. His car sounds really mean. I can tell that my remarks are going to be unpopular and I'm open-minded.. if I see the evidence that I'm wrong then I'll change my mind. I'd love to debate this with someone but I refuse to get in an unproductive shouting match.

99gt has 260hp w/basic vortech blower it has 398hp, a gain of 138hp. 99 LS1 has an advertised 320hp w/basic vortech blower it has 418hp, a gain of 98hp. Which one do you think responses better to mods?

One thing that surprised me in reading the mods of the 11 sec LS1s was the fact that only one guy(that I saw) has an injector upgrade in his list.

As far as the original post, I don't think there is anything wrong with a friendly debate but you didn't seem to be looking for a debate LOL

BTW the first LS1 engine, I remember, came in the 97 vette.


Talk to me