4R70W's and the TCC

[kswahlgren]

Hey there all,
I'm brand new here and so is my '04 Mach. I need some tips. I have two Mustangs, the Mach and a 3.8L, '03. Both have lock up converter clutches which I just absolutely can't stand... I want them gone. I have some ideas, but I would like to know if any of you have diasabled your TCC's in your 4R70W's. I am from a place that is ' a long time ago and far, far away', as is were. But when I started on cars in the mid 60's, all autos slipped. The way God meant for them to act, now I have two cars that don't what gear they want.
Can you help me out?

Thanks,
Keith

[Capri306]

I'm not trying to knock you or anything, but dude, read up on the latest tech involved with locking torque converters. There is absolutely NO reason to disable it (unless you're talking hundreds more HP than the original design called for), and with a little PCM reprogramming are a LOT more versatile.

If you're that adamant about it, mebbe you should've gotten a stick?

[kswahlgren]

Capri306,
Thanks for your reply. I have already explored the TCC, but I am wondering what you mean by a little reprogramming? I have searched these reprogrammer sites and have not found very much that would help.
I have some experience in this area and have been doing engine work since '68. I have noticed that the trend in new cars is to run them slower and run them hotter. Here in Florida, late model Lincolns and Crown Vics can be seen smoking... and not just valve guide seals. Running 5-20 oil, as Ford recommends, along with a 225 degree thermo switch on at low RPM is not really a good plan. My Mach 1 is locked up in 4th at 1200 RPM, just a minor passing maneuver means a kick down, when 300+HP/300+#'s Torque should be sufficient with just a little more throttle, something that the lock prevents. I just see no reason for it. Therefore, one way or another, they will go away. Sometimes I think the government and the CAFE people intrude too much into our lives. I was even told I could not buy a certain size tire for this car. MY life, my car, my common sense. I was buying these Pony cars new in the late 60's... a set up like this would have gotten a good laugh at the time.

Thanks again,
Keith

[tireburner163]

Oh boo hoo. Come on dude, it's not that big of a deal. So the converter locks up in 3rd & 4th. Welcome to every mustang since the 1980's. I've never noticed a problem with my friends 00 GT vert.

But yes yes, I highly suggest disableing the lock up. And now they make a carb'ed intake for the mod motor. All you need to find now is someone to makes a kit to convert it back to points.


-Josh, aka the tireburner

[kswahlgren]

Look, guys.... I'm new here. I just asked a simple question about lock up converters. That's all. I expected to see some knowledge like; no, that won't work and here's why... or, I did it and here's how. Didn't happen.
I stopped at the Ford dealer today and got permission to speak with their transmission rebuilder... a very nice young man who talked this question over with me for 20 minutes.
In his mind the TCC is not necessary. All the nonsense about fluid temps aside (since fluid coolers are cheap and half the problem is the 225 degree fan switch anyway). But in the end he said he did not really know what would occur in the TCC disable, but his best guess was an engine light, since it IS in the emissions category of the ECM chip and possible drivability or fuel problems.
So, I love this car and I will forget about the TCC since it is there and will stay that way. It IS the government building our cars. You all say that this is fine etc. etc., but one day Uncle Sam will step on your trigger with something that bothers you, and then YOU will get upset. Then when you post (if I'm still here, which I doubt), I'll just say "boo hoo hoo, dude, just get over it".
Life is short... have some fun.

[xxxBlakexxx]

The government starting ruining cars in 1973!!! But you know, with their involvement things have gotten better. Cars are safer and better for the environment today...and it pains me to make that statement. When was the last time you saw a car blowing black smoke....it just does not happen anymore.

For all this, we have to put up with stuff like this...plain and simple. It's like a sophisticated cat and mouse game. Government makes a change and car companies adapt. AND these changes will continue and continue and continue.

ksw, this is a great site! with lots of great folks! I wish you the best and hope to see many postings from you. I am sure we could all learn a little something from you and your experience. Perhaps you could share many stories about the muscle car days with us over the next few months.

You have what I think is one of the best Mustangs ever - '04 Mach 1. You gotta love the heritage AND the modern technology.

Blake

[kswahlgren]

Triple X,
Your post above is exactly correct... I am fascinated by this new technology. Today I packed up my 1970 AMX 390 4spd Sport Coupe for transport pickup. I bot it new in November 1969. I've had that car for 34 years, mostly parked since 1976. I'm kind of shedding a tear, but I know I'll never get it together to rebuild it, so I sold it on eBay last week for 10 g's. The young guy and his wife who won the auction can't wait to get it. But when I look at that car I see me at 21 years old... since I first set eyes on that car, I got married and raised two Marines plus a zillion other things. But that was then. Now I look at the Mach and I kind of feel the same way as I did when I got that AMX. Times change, but I still wish I could have ten minutes with the guy that stuck that lock up in my new car... just to explain things....
I kind of feel like a Dad on this site, I'm 55... so I think I'll hang around just to give you young whipper snappers a hand when you get confused. They made me buy a $1200 radio when I bot this Mach 1... heck, I never turn it on. There's the difference. Here's a pic.

Have a big day,
The Old One

[xxxBlakexxx]

OMG, what a great photo! How could you let that thing go? I am sure it was hard.

There are guys of all ages here, but most are younger. Look for MustardJohn, I believe he is close to your vintage. Great guy and he posts quite a bit...always looking out for others.

Myself, I am 36. Just bought my first Mustang last year and look forward to more already. If i could, I would grab a '71 Mach 1. I just bought a Mustang history book and have been reading up. '65 to '72 were really great years for the car.

You raised two Marines! I am sure you are proud of them. I served in the Navy on active duty from '90 to '94. Came out an LT. Then I was in the reserves for 4 years after which I joined the Army National Guard as an Atrillery Officer and Staff Officer. I just recently got out.

Grand kids yet?

[84LX89GT]

If you do decide to bypass the Torque converter clutch keep these things in mind: gas mileage will suffer and the transmission will overheat unless you get a bigger oil to air cooler. Also unless you get a custom chip to bypass the TCC your processor will send a code for it, it reads the input shaft speed sensor versus the output shaft speed sensor to check for lockup when it is commanded. Good luck, but i personally think unless you're doing serious drag racing it's pointless, most of the shifting in and out that's noticable in those cars is from drive to overdrive which has a button to disable. a light tap of the brake and the TCC is disabled quickly.
If you want a car that drives the way a car did in the 60's in terms of auto transmission get some 3.73 gears and drive without the overdrive on (leave the button pushed in).

[kswahlgren]

Thanks for the information. Nice looking ride, by the way... good rim choice. I know, I'm paranoid about this TCC thing. I realize that fuel use reverts to the old straight stick vs auto basics. Trans oil temps can be taken care of, partly by a cooler and partly by lowering the engine cooling fan switch on temp. setting which would also reduce the trans temps by reducing the heat conduction from the engine and possibly provide more trans oil cooling via the radiator. I plan to reduce that 225 switch-on temp anyway, regardless.
Try this on, let's say I drop the pan and plug in a second TCC solenoid, leaving the original in place and tie wrapping the second to a fixed location. That way the ECM can still signal the new TCC and receive it's readings. That leaves only the shaft sensor problem remaining. Also, you mention a 'custom chip' ... is such a chip available? One that would remove the TCC read/send from the equation?
After we finish this problem, we need to talk tires... I don't think that will go over very well either....

The Old One

[kswahlgren]

TripleX,
Yes, I am good looking... Letting Froggy go took some thought. But I'm OK with all that since the new owner is a good kid and plans a ground up resto. I told him to drive it to my house when it's done so I can 'have the moment' one more time. He'll need a shake down cruise anyway. Also my new Mach is a modern day replacement for that old muscle car... same size, power, sound (plus AC), and a ton of other bennies.
LT eh? Not bad. My oldest son got out in 2000 as a Sgt. My second son actually isn't in yet. He leaves for Paris Island in two weeks for basic... so, I'm 'two Marineing' a little early. I'll match my two guys up against anybody else's. Never been a problem, always make my day.
Navy? Yup, need 'Squids' to haul the 'Jarheads' around, besides, you've got bigger guns. By the way, bot myself a Thompson SMG a month or two ago... we watch war movies together. My wife thinks it's a little odd... I call him Bob (bushels of bullets).
An early Mach is always an excellent choice, but then I've always been a Ford guy. I test drove all those bad cars when they were on the lots in the late 60's... Mach's, Cuda's, Camero's, '68 Charger, Vettes. I even sold for Chevrolet for a while in the mid 70's, but they were all has beens by then.
"Vintage'? Thank you, excellent choice of word! No grandkids... that I know about...........

Have a large day,
Old One

[xxxBlakexxx]

One of my other favorite past-times is war movies. I've got them all...especially the new ones. I also read a lot of WWII history books. Funny, I hated history in school...now I can't get enough.

Yes, not only was I a squid but a gater freighter driver. I was stationed on the USS Tarawa (LHA-1) out of SD and was an Officer of The Deck. I was also qualified as Boat Group Commander and I ran the Well Deck for about 4 months. As a BGC I lead anphibious assaults...my job was to lead the waves in of marines so that they hit the beach at the right spot and fish the broken tracks out of the water. I loved that stuff! I made two deployments during Desert Storm. We used to call the marines "trees" on the ship. They were green and stood around a lot...not much for them to do when haze gray and underway.

I had a lot of Jar Heads as friends as we had a lot stationed on the ship. Great guys...I wanted to be a marine for a time while I was in ROTC in college.

Hey, if you are ever in PA, let me know and I'll buy the beer! We can talk about old cars AND the military.

[Crazy Horse GT]

old man, lmao, im 45, man dont know what's giving you a problem, but i turn off my trac control on my 00 gt, it run's just fine down the strip, plus on the highway, if i kick it, it never shut's down, been up to 135 mph, stock 3:27's, i back off about there, but my rev limeter, does not kick in, ?????? , the only time it has, was the time i left it in 2, instead of drive, doh!!. good luck. , oh yeah dont turn off o/d or it will bog down, i know by accidently hitting mine. oh yeah, ex- military, navy 82-88, bierut, nat'l gaurd - army , desert storm vet, 90-96, life member - d.a.v.

[kswahlgren]

Yo Crazy Horse.... Hoo-Ah,
Anybody that's been in boots has a free beer at my house... nothin' but respect.
I'm getting over the TCC thing, I just get set in my ways and changes ruin my day. A TH-400 or C-6 worked just fine! If the Gov't needs more MPG's to raise the CAFE's, then add an overdrive, but a clutch lock-up... I just can't see it. It makes the gearbox into a straight stick. If I wanted a stick, I would have bought one. Out side of that, and an engine running at 225 (which I will fix) it is just an oustanding car... the Mach 1. I think I just need to personalize it a little.
I bought an extra set of rims so that I can run larger diameter tires for better ride ( I know, I know, I can hear the groaning from here). I'm just going to have a little fun with this piece.

Thanks for the note, CH, have a real fine day!
Keith (The Old One)

P.S. I told my wife I was buying more rims (we already have two stacks of tires in the living room....), and she said 'What for? I said these aren't the right ones, she said 'Why? Then I said I was going to cut the grass and clean the gutters. Then everything was OK. I'm not so dumb.
Got some Bullitt rims, NIB, with dark centers... ought to look pretty fair on my dark gray car... later I will post a pick with the big tires, then you guys will be green with envy and wonder how I could have such excellent taste....
If it's not too personal, who is odie? An by the way, I hope the DAV thing isn't serious. We all have our demons, some are just worse than others. You can quote me there.... Like I tell my boys, all days are good ones... it's just that some are better than others. I'm done now... later!

[xxxBlakexxx]

ok, I have a moderately funny story about my wife and rims.

About 6 weeks ago, I bought new rims. You can see the photo in my avator. Nothing like stock, right? My otherwise extremely intelligent, does not miss a single thing, can NEVER put a single thing pass her wife has been driving that car on and off since then. She noticed the rims right away and said she liked them.

Yesterday when she came home from work, the stang was parked in the driveway. She wanted to know what the heck I did to the tires (remember, "tires" is what non-car folk refer collectively to tires and wheels combined). She acussed me of painting them black! She thought they had been chrome. Can you believe that?

My head hurts...

[BLACK85GT]

KS, arent you worried about warranty issues if you mess with the tranny?

[kswahlgren]

Absolutely, that's one of the reasons I think I'll just leave things as they are. Also, I just did a simple battery disconnect reboot and it appears that the transmission is much more agreeable than it was before. Maybe it's just in my mind, but it seems to be way less indecisive in shifting than it was before. Who knows. Anyway, I appreciate you looking out for me in one of my fits. Besides, these days, I think they just shoot if they find out....

Have a big one,
Ol' Guy

[xxxBlakexxx]

Hey, I just had a thought. Some of the new autotrans have the ability to learn or adapt to the driver. When my '02 Intrepid was new, I was given a video tape about this. They mentioned that the tranny might shift funny for a while at first. Could the stangs be the same?

[kswahlgren]

Hey Blake,
Might be the case... I wouldn't put anything past these car builders these days. If this IS the case, I'm really going to confuse it this week when I change the rims and put on larger tires. This will cause mostly everyone to shake their heads in despair....
Last nite I bot a brand new set (NIB) of Ford Bullitt rims from Ebay... $450 plus shipping (charcoal spokes, my Mach is Dark Charcoal Metallic). These are 17X8's, on which I will put a new set of Goodyear LS P235X60R17's... I know, much bigger diameter, but a much better ride. I've done the exact same thing with an '02 Firebird Formula, and an '03 Mustang 3.8L with no codes showing and no driving or handling problems. Let's face it, when were we last on a road race course? Also the tire mileage will increase greatly. The stock performance tires with short sidewalls rarely get over 20k miles. I usually use Toyo 800 Ultra's with the 100,000 mile wear feature. But since Toyo does not make a passenger tire in 17", I had to switch brands. Only Goodyear and Pirelli make this size in a passenger tire. I will take before and after tire change pics and post them. When you see the larger tires (that fill the fender holes... you will see the wisdom of the Old One, or the insanity....
Then after I do this, which people say will destroy the brakes, rear end, posi., dashboard, TCM, ECM, paint job and my marriage... I will get into lowering the engine temp. A 225 degree thermo switch-on is an absolutely guaranteed way to shorten the life of your engine... unless you live in Siberia. I know, more head shaking... I don't care, it's my bar of soap. I just have to pay a little attention to the warranty police. By the way, if you or anybody else has a good way to do this, please let me know. Right now I'm thinking the Flex-O-Lite adjustable electric fan switch, or something similar.
After I get these changes done, Ford is going to say 'Crap... I wish we had done this...!' Then they will try to pay me to be a consultant... I might, if the money is right....
Anyway, if the transmission adjusts to my driving habits, it had better be flexible. Later we'll get into glass packs. That's right, I'm taking this car back in time.... Stay 'tuned', as it were.

Have a goodie,
Old One

[xxxBlakexxx]

I am looking forward to the photos and the sound clips!