Israel..........

myred86gt · 09-24-2001, 11:32 PM

It's my belief that Israel has gotten enough
help from us. They are one of the reasons
why we're in this situation. Let's face it,
we are dealing with a place the size of NJ,
why bother? Is it really that important to us? I realize that 3 major religions came from there, but why all the fuss? Let them
fight for themselves! We (USA) have enough
problems of our own!

09-24-2001, 11:42 PM

isreal is probably our only ally, in that part of the world , i have been there 4 time' & most irealis are on our side if a certain ex- pres had kepy his nose out of their issue's well nough said they, can handle their own problem's i know i spent a whole day with teir military , awsome.

------------------

Vector · 09-25-2001, 07:10 AM

Why do you even care about Israel? Do you think your support of them is costing you so much you won't be able to effectively fight the terrorism? Please! I think you are just looking for more people to screw over, to make feel guilty for what has happened. You seem to forget history. The US helped set up Israel as a soveriegn nation to make sure the attrocities commited during ww2 would never happen to Jews again. And now you would abandon them? You would abandon them while everyone is coming to help you! Please. I'm glad your government isn't run with the same yeeehaaaw nukem' all kind of attitude I see from some Americans.

the bandit · 09-25-2001, 08:25 AM

Hell yea, I agree with what Marty said, plus being that my mom is from Israel, and the fact that I have family there, I take it a little personal, and that may be wrong, but they are our strongest ally, and the fact that we both help eachother in more ways that we probably know about, I wouldn't want to stop helping them, or them to stop helping us.
Just my .02 cents.

------------------
14.44 best et with street tires, spinning first and second hard.
Mods:BBK 2 1/2 inch h-pipe with 1 chamber American thunder flowmasters
3.73's
Steeda lowering springs
245/50/16 Nittos

silver_pilate · 09-25-2001, 01:36 PM

Heck,

I guess if I were to pick any nation to be an ally, it would be Israel. Sure, they're about the size of NJ, but they've been able to handle (with a vengance) any conflict that has come against them. I have no doubt that they can fight their own battles. They have one of the, if not THE most battle ready militaries in the world, not to mention their intelligence gathering capabilities.

I don't know if you're a God fearing man or not, but the Bible makes it clear that Israel has a special deal going with God. Check out some of the prophecies in Revalations.

Reguardless, I don't think Israel needs our help...in fact, if anything, we've probably been holding them back from wiping out most of the Middle East with all the diplomatic talks that have been going on.

I don't understand why everybody rags on Israel. "Oh....big bad Israel is beating up on those poor Palestinian citizens!" Hell, take a look at it...Israel has only retaliated for acts done to its citzens and or military. Maybe if all those extremely bright people in the Middle East would stop throwing rocks at armed soldiers and tanks amd stop dropping bombs off at places crowded with Israeli citizens, they wouldn't get so messed up.

Reguardless...the United States has always backed Israel and always should, in my opinion. Besides, our relationship with Israel was only one more excuse for what happened in NY. If we had nothing to do with Israel...there are always other excuses.

Anway...my $.02 is finished....

--nathan

------------------
--silver_pilate

'91 GT, Built 306, Wolverine 1087 cam, ported Windsor Jr. Irons, and all the goodies...click the link to the left to see a full list of my mods...

Tried and True 302 Being Built to Outrun You! heh heh heh...
--Texas Panhandle--
Check out my site

Mr 5 0 · 09-25-2001, 02:13 PM

Simplistic solutions won't work.

We have a special bond with the nation of Israel and have since they were founded as a nation in 1948. I won't bore everyone with all the historical facts, but we will never desert this staunch friend in the middle-east.

Israel does not ask for our soldiers to fight for them, they can do that quite well for themselves, but we do supply them with the arms needed to fend off attacks from a dozen other hostile nations. That is only reasonable.

The Arab nations that claim Irsael is the point of their discontent with America are lying. Yes, they hate Israel, but if Israel disappeared tomorrow and every Jew left that part of the world, the Arabs, especially the radical Islamic nations, would still hate the U.S., so abandoning Israel is no panacea for peace in the mid-east.

myred86gt · 09-25-2001, 09:50 PM

The reason I have brought up this subject
is to partially explain why hardcore muslims
are displeased with us Americans:
Everytime muslim nations get bombed they
pick up a remnant of a destroyed weapon and
read off the words "made in USA", which
points all fingers at the USA. We supply all
these weapons to allies in the middleeast
(especially Israel). I am not condemning
Israel for being in the middle of all these
countries, neither do I think that anybody
deserves to be dropped from US support. It
seams to me that the UN caters prodominant-
ly to Israel's interests when dealing with
the middleeastern issues. I do really think
that Clinton really screwed up when he sent
those cruise missils into Afghanistan. He
really made a great name for the US with
that one! I don't support Palestinians, I
think that they are brainwashed at birth
into thinking the way they do. I'm certainly
not going to make friends with someone that
hates my guts. My point is that religion is
many times used as an excuse to kill. Thats
not what ANY religion teaches (or is supposed
to teach), and as a godfearing citizen, I
am appauled at the behavior of the Taliban.
I got sick to my stomach when I saw the pictures and undercover reports from Afghan-
istan on CNN, this is barbaric behavior, lower than animal behavior. Osama Binladen reminds me of Hitler! Sick!
Americans should really sit back and think
what we are getting into here. It's not
gonna be pretty! God Bless us all!

09-25-2001, 11:12 PM

vector , bandit esp. , silever pilate & mr 50 you all said it, i alway's thought i was just a wasp, found out from , christian jew FRIEND of mine i am descended from one of the tribe's of isreal , when i was in beirut in the early 80's i lost some good marine freind's when we docked i haifa they were backing us all the way,patting us on the back ,etc so i am behind them 1,000 % it's the feak camel jockey's that are our enemy. if i have to go to ,isreal & take up weapon's myself , send me a ticket.

------------------

Unit 5302 · 09-26-2001, 06:20 PM

History shows that it is the UN holding Israel back. If the UN wouldn't keep messing with them and telling them to give their country up for peace Israel would have blown Lebanon to bits again. Egypt learned first hand how powerful that little nation is. Israel has given up it's land in a vain attempt for peace, yet the UN and President Clinton were still telling them to give up more.

What do you think our reaction would be if Mexico was causing **** and the UN and Israel told us to give up Texas for peace? As far as I'm concerned we should back Israel 100% and let them deal with the arabs as they see fit.

jimmyjr · 09-28-2001, 06:54 AM

OY!!!!

PKRWUD · 09-28-2001, 09:16 AM

I'd be willing to give up Texas.

I spent two weeks in Israel in the early 1980's. Nicest people on earth. Had to spend an afternoon in a bomb shelter while overnighting it on a Kibbutz on the Lebanon border due to shelling a few miles away. I know for a fact that if they weren't so restrained by the UN and the US, we'd be buying oil from them now.

The dickweeds over there who hate us use Israel as an excuse. They hate our freedoms and our lack of respect for their religious beliefs. They can't understand how a nation can govern itself separately from religion, and think of such as truly evil. They fear our ways, and that their youth will adopt them.

And yes, just how many people do have to die in the name of God before everyone realizes that God is nothing more than a subconscious set of morals (IMHO).

nevermind.

J/K about Texas.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

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Mr 5 0 · 09-28-2001, 12:43 PM

PKRWUD:

I agree with your comments on the mid-east situation but I disagree that God is 'just a subconscious set of morals'. However, I'm not up for a long and drawn-out religious discussion so I think we should just agree to disagree and then let it go on this one.

PKRWUD · 09-28-2001, 02:15 PM

Jim,
Something was lost in the translation. I really do try to avoid conversations about politics and religion, since there are rarely ever two identical opinions. I seem to have slipped this time, and shared a wee bit more than I meant to. No offense or disrespect intended, but you knew that.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

09-28-2001, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PKRWUD:
And yes, just how many people do have to die in the name of God before everyone realizes that God is nothing more than a subconscious set of morals (IMHO).

I'm glad I'm not the one who slipped!!

Other than that... (No comment)

tireburner163 · 09-28-2001, 10:52 PM

It says in the bible, well in lame-man terms it says not to break with Israel

------------------
THE SLO PONY
1992 Ford Mustand LX. 2.3 liter four-banger, auto. Future mods: V-8 swap.

Fly it loud, Fly it proud!!!

If it ain't broke, you ain't tryin hard enough

PKRWUD · 09-28-2001, 10:55 PM

Rick, both of my parents are ordained ministers. I grew up very religious. As I age, and science becomes more reliable, I start to think that religion is just like alcohol or drugs: it's just a crutch for people who can't handle reality. I would much rather people get involved with religion than alcohol, until it reaches obscene limits like this whole taliban thing.

Anyway, I avoid these topics. Sorry again.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

09-28-2001, 11:17 PM

Chris,
I agree with what you are saying but from a different angle. I believe man created god to comfort his insecurities. It has been done though the ages and who is to say what god is real and whose isn't? You have to die to find that and I think that dying ends any believe what so ever. I'd like to believe we all have one god and are recreated until we get it right but... who knows?

I'm not willing to die for 'god' of any sort. God is man made. I am however willing to die for my believes.. I would give my life for my country, to maintain the way of life here.. I would fly a plane into a building. I would die if it meant that thousands could live.

09-28-2001, 11:18 PM

come on guy's i do believe in jesus christ, but as a twice combat vet i also believe that it is everyone's choice to believe what they want to it is their right as an american , if you do believe , fine if you don't that's fine too , this isn't the time too argue reilgion , or politic's it alway's end's up just that an arguement everyone has their own opinion's leave it be .am i , right or wrong? if i'm wrong i am ducking right now.

------------------

[This message has been edited by mustang marty gt (edited 09-29-2001).]

[This message has been edited by mustang marty gt (edited 09-29-2001).]

09-29-2001, 12:04 AM

You are right Marty. I avoid politics and religion because people are so emotionally attached to thier beliefs.
That is one of the great things about this country! You can believe whatever you want and voice your opinion. You are safe here among the Americans!! You can say what you believe and not be shot down because of it!! You sir, have rights here!! You can believe what you like, say what you like(hmm.. within reason.. this needs work), and worship whatever or whoever you wish.. as long as it doesn't infringe on anothers freedom. Welcome to America!!

Born American and PROUD of IT!!!

PKRWUD · 09-29-2001, 01:09 AM

Posted by Rick:

Quote:

I agree with what you are saying but from a different angle. I believe man created god to comfort his insecurities. It has been done though the ages and who is to say what god is real and whose isn't? You have to die to find that and I think that dying ends any believe what so ever.

Rick, that is perhaps the best written example of how I feel that I have ever seen. How'd you do that??? I rarely let myself into my head, let alone someone 3000 miles away. Very, very impressive!

Hey, do you have a single sister?

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

09-24-2001, 11:32 PM	#1
myred86gt Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 17	Israel.......... It's my belief that Israel has gotten enough help from us. They are one of the reasons why we're in this situation. Let's face it, we are dealing with a place the size of NJ, why bother? Is it really that important to us? I realize that 3 major religions came from there, but why all the fuss? Let them fight for themselves! We (USA) have enough problems of our own!

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09-24-2001, 11:42 PM	#2
mustang marty gt Guest Posts: n/a	isreal is probably our only ally, in that part of the world , i have been there 4 time' & most irealis are on our side if a certain ex- pres had kepy his nose out of their issue's well nough said they, can handle their own problem's i know i spent a whole day with teir military , awsome. ------------------

09-25-2001, 07:10 AM	#3
Vector Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Comox, BC, Canada Posts: 119	Why do you even care about Israel? Do you think your support of them is costing you so much you won't be able to effectively fight the terrorism? Please! I think you are just looking for more people to screw over, to make feel guilty for what has happened. You seem to forget history. The US helped set up Israel as a soveriegn nation to make sure the attrocities commited during ww2 would never happen to Jews again. And now you would abandon them? You would abandon them while everyone is coming to help you! Please. I'm glad your government isn't run with the same yeeehaaaw nukem' all kind of attitude I see from some Americans.

09-25-2001, 08:25 AM	#4
the bandit Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: WEST PALM BEACH, FL. Posts: 121	Hell yea, I agree with what Marty said, plus being that my mom is from Israel, and the fact that I have family there, I take it a little personal, and that may be wrong, but they are our strongest ally, and the fact that we both help eachother in more ways that we probably know about, I wouldn't want to stop helping them, or them to stop helping us. Just my .02 cents. ------------------ 14.44 best et with street tires, spinning first and second hard. Mods:BBK 2 1/2 inch h-pipe with 1 chamber American thunder flowmasters 3.73's Steeda lowering springs 245/50/16 Nittos

09-25-2001, 01:36 PM	#5
silver_pilate DURKA DURKA!! Join Date: Sep 1997 Location: Lubbock, TX...(TX panhandle) Posts: 1,418	Heck, I guess if I were to pick any nation to be an ally, it would be Israel. Sure, they're about the size of NJ, but they've been able to handle (with a vengance) any conflict that has come against them. I have no doubt that they can fight their own battles. They have one of the, if not THE most battle ready militaries in the world, not to mention their intelligence gathering capabilities. I don't know if you're a God fearing man or not, but the Bible makes it clear that Israel has a special deal going with God. Check out some of the prophecies in Revalations. Reguardless, I don't think Israel needs our help...in fact, if anything, we've probably been holding them back from wiping out most of the Middle East with all the diplomatic talks that have been going on. I don't understand why everybody rags on Israel. "Oh....big bad Israel is beating up on those poor Palestinian citizens!" Hell, take a look at it...Israel has only retaliated for acts done to its citzens and or military. Maybe if all those extremely bright people in the Middle East would stop throwing rocks at armed soldiers and tanks amd stop dropping bombs off at places crowded with Israeli citizens, they wouldn't get so messed up. Reguardless...the United States has always backed Israel and always should, in my opinion. Besides, our relationship with Israel was only one more excuse for what happened in NY. If we had nothing to do with Israel...there are always other excuses. Anway...my $.02 is finished.... --nathan ------------------ --silver_pilate '91 GT, Built 306, Wolverine 1087 cam, ported Windsor Jr. Irons, and all the goodies...click the link to the left to see a full list of my mods... Tried and True 302 Being Built to Outrun You! heh heh heh... --Texas Panhandle-- Check out my site

09-25-2001, 02:13 PM	#6
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Simplistic solutions won't work. We have a special bond with the nation of Israel and have since they were founded as a nation in 1948. I won't bore everyone with all the historical facts, but we will never desert this staunch friend in the middle-east. Israel does not ask for our soldiers to fight for them, they can do that quite well for themselves, but we do supply them with the arms needed to fend off attacks from a dozen other hostile nations. That is only reasonable. The Arab nations that claim Irsael is the point of their discontent with America are lying. Yes, they hate Israel, but if Israel disappeared tomorrow and every Jew left that part of the world, the Arabs, especially the radical Islamic nations, would still hate the U.S., so abandoning Israel is no panacea for peace in the mid-east.

09-25-2001, 09:50 PM	#7
myred86gt Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 17	The reason I have brought up this subject is to partially explain why hardcore muslims are displeased with us Americans: Everytime muslim nations get bombed they pick up a remnant of a destroyed weapon and read off the words "made in USA", which points all fingers at the USA. We supply all these weapons to allies in the middleeast (especially Israel). I am not condemning Israel for being in the middle of all these countries, neither do I think that anybody deserves to be dropped from US support. It seams to me that the UN caters prodominant- ly to Israel's interests when dealing with the middleeastern issues. I do really think that Clinton really screwed up when he sent those cruise missils into Afghanistan. He really made a great name for the US with that one! I don't support Palestinians, I think that they are brainwashed at birth into thinking the way they do. I'm certainly not going to make friends with someone that hates my guts. My point is that religion is many times used as an excuse to kill. Thats not what ANY religion teaches (or is supposed to teach), and as a godfearing citizen, I am appauled at the behavior of the Taliban. I got sick to my stomach when I saw the pictures and undercover reports from Afghan- istan on CNN, this is barbaric behavior, lower than animal behavior. Osama Binladen reminds me of Hitler! Sick! Americans should really sit back and think what we are getting into here. It's not gonna be pretty! God Bless us all!

09-25-2001, 11:12 PM	#8
mustang marty gt Guest Posts: n/a	vector , bandit esp. , silever pilate & mr 50 you all said it, i alway's thought i was just a wasp, found out from , christian jew FRIEND of mine i am descended from one of the tribe's of isreal , when i was in beirut in the early 80's i lost some good marine freind's when we docked i haifa they were backing us all the way,patting us on the back ,etc so i am behind them 1,000 % it's the feak camel jockey's that are our enemy. if i have to go to ,isreal & take up weapon's myself , send me a ticket. ------------------

09-26-2001, 06:20 PM	#9
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	History shows that it is the UN holding Israel back. If the UN wouldn't keep messing with them and telling them to give their country up for peace Israel would have blown Lebanon to bits again. Egypt learned first hand how powerful that little nation is. Israel has given up it's land in a vain attempt for peace, yet the UN and President Clinton were still telling them to give up more. What do you think our reaction would be if Mexico was causing **** and the UN and Israel told us to give up Texas for peace? As far as I'm concerned we should back Israel 100% and let them deal with the arabs as they see fit.

09-28-2001, 06:54 AM	#10
jimmyjr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 347	OY!!!!

09-28-2001, 09:16 AM	#11
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I'd be willing to give up Texas. I spent two weeks in Israel in the early 1980's. Nicest people on earth. Had to spend an afternoon in a bomb shelter while overnighting it on a Kibbutz on the Lebanon border due to shelling a few miles away. I know for a fact that if they weren't so restrained by the UN and the US, we'd be buying oil from them now. The dickweeds over there who hate us use Israel as an excuse. They hate our freedoms and our lack of respect for their religious beliefs. They can't understand how a nation can govern itself separately from religion, and think of such as truly evil. They fear our ways, and that their youth will adopt them. And yes, just how many people do have to die in the name of God before everyone realizes that God is nothing more than a subconscious set of morals (IMHO). nevermind. J/K about Texas. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

09-28-2001, 12:43 PM	#12
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	PKRWUD: I agree with your comments on the mid-east situation but I disagree that God is 'just a subconscious set of morals'. However, I'm not up for a long and drawn-out religious discussion so I think we should just agree to disagree and then let it go on this one.

09-28-2001, 02:15 PM	#13
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Jim, Something was lost in the translation. I really do try to avoid conversations about politics and religion, since there are rarely ever two identical opinions. I seem to have slipped this time, and shared a wee bit more than I meant to. No offense or disrespect intended, but you knew that. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

09-28-2001, 10:52 PM	#15
tireburner163 It's a lot like a race car Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Meridian, MS Posts: 4,130	It says in the bible, well in lame-man terms it says not to break with Israel ------------------ THE SLO PONY 1992 Ford Mustand LX. 2.3 liter four-banger, auto. Future mods: V-8 swap. Fly it loud, Fly it proud!!! If it ain't broke, you ain't tryin hard enough

09-28-2001, 10:55 PM	#16
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Rick, both of my parents are ordained ministers. I grew up very religious. As I age, and science becomes more reliable, I start to think that religion is just like alcohol or drugs: it's just a crutch for people who can't handle reality. I would much rather people get involved with religion than alcohol, until it reaches obscene limits like this whole taliban thing. Anyway, I avoid these topics. Sorry again. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

09-28-2001, 11:17 PM	#17
rbatson Guest Posts: n/a	Chris, I agree with what you are saying but from a different angle. I believe man created god to comfort his insecurities. It has been done though the ages and who is to say what god is real and whose isn't? You have to die to find that and I think that dying ends any believe what so ever. I'd like to believe we all have one god and are recreated until we get it right but... who knows? I'm not willing to die for 'god' of any sort. God is man made. I am however willing to die for my believes.. I would give my life for my country, to maintain the way of life here.. I would fly a plane into a building. I would die if it meant that thousands could live.

09-28-2001, 11:18 PM	#18
mustang marty gt Guest Posts: n/a	come on guy's i do believe in jesus christ, but as a twice combat vet i also believe that it is everyone's choice to believe what they want to it is their right as an american , if you do believe , fine if you don't that's fine too , this isn't the time too argue reilgion , or politic's it alway's end's up just that an arguement everyone has their own opinion's leave it be .am i , right or wrong? if i'm wrong i am ducking right now. ------------------ [This message has been edited by mustang marty gt (edited 09-29-2001).] [This message has been edited by mustang marty gt (edited 09-29-2001).]

09-29-2001, 12:04 AM	#19
rbatson Guest Posts: n/a	You are right Marty. I avoid politics and religion because people are so emotionally attached to thier beliefs. That is one of the great things about this country! You can believe whatever you want and voice your opinion. You are safe here among the Americans!! You can say what you believe and not be shot down because of it!! You sir, have rights here!! You can believe what you like, say what you like(hmm.. within reason.. this needs work), and worship whatever or whoever you wish.. as long as it doesn't infringe on anothers freedom. Welcome to America!! Born American and PROUD of IT!!!