President Bush

[RBatson]

The biggest mistake the president made was giving the WMD excuse for making war. Iraq had to be dealt with, it should have been dealt with 12 yrs ago. They broke the treaty and to me, that's grounds to take care of it.. Hell, Clinton should have taken care of it(they wouldn't let the UN inspectors in during his term). I think the president did what should have been done long ago. Only problem is that he said the reason was that Iraq had WMD. So now they have to prove that there was WMD in the county, which there probably was!!, to justify it to the world. He waited on the UN to make up thier mind and then decided to pay off countries to agree with him that Iraq had to be dealt with, giving time to hide or move WMD. First of all, why are we even in the UN to start with?

President Bush; a strong speaker. I think he really knows how to talk down to a country. I also believe he knows how to take care of the ones who put him in office. The price of fuel is rising for a reason folks. I honestly believe Bush is for the wealth, which most of us aren't. The tax breaks benefit the wealth the most. If he wins this next election it will be because some major flaws are found in Kerry. Other than that, Kerry is a shoe in.. I personally liked what I saw of Dean.

[1989GT]

Well man you're all about the hot topics aren't ya...LOL. So here's my $.02. The war in Iraq was completely justified. With or with out WMD. Saddam broke all kinds of sactions and treaties and everything else. Besides the fact that he had WMD. He used them before and could show no proof that he destroyed them. Now I can't say what we found over there or what we didn't find. Or why some of it hasn't been made public. Infact a lot of it has, but instead of making huge headlines you'd be lucky to see it scroll across the bottom of the screen. Iraq is one huge ammo dump. You can go anyplace and uncover just about any kind of ammo imaginable. Hell you can go out and dig up a mig in the middle of nowhere. So if we haven't found WMD there's a lot of places to hide them, and Saddam has had more than a decade to do it.

Now as far a kerry is concerned....this guy is as two faced as them come. Everytime you turn around he's saying something different than the day before. Or denying something he said when they have him on tape saying it. Enough said.

IMO The President is a great leader and an awesome Commander In Chief. I support everything he's done and will do.
-Ryan

[joe4speed]

I wouldn't want Bush's job for all the money in the world, especially after the events that have happened in his term. Talk about stress and difficult decisions to be made. I voted for Gore, but I'm glad now that Bush won. I don't think Gore would have handled things as well as Bush has. Sure Bush has made mistakes, but with the hand he's been dealt with, I support him and stand behind our president. I will vote for him again. I also believe that action HAD to be taken in Iraq and against terrorism as a whole, unfortunately, more countries do not join the fight.
I do not like Kerry at all, just something not right with him to me. I liked Dean too, but he's out so it doesn't matter.
That's about as political as I will comfortably get. I think being in the bar business for so long and living with the "No discussing politics and religion" motto makes me more of an observer than a political debater.
It will be interesting, though, to see all the different viewpoints here.

[d_lyp]

I just read where another guy talked about this on another board, and he pointed out that if freeing people, or protecting us and the rest of the world, was really what was important, then we would have gone after North Koreas

[mustardjohn]

How many wars can you start in one term? Let China take care of NK. They created them.

[Mr 5 0]

I agree with Rick that the invasion of Iraq was necessary and fully justified. The fact that Islamic terrorists are pouring into Iraq from other Arab nations simply proves that they are in fear of a democratic Iraq and are fighting for their lives, as it were, both figuaratively and literally. They will be defeated and Iraq will eventually be some sort of democracy (they are all different; France is a democarcy, as is Japan, Germany and so on). In any case, Saddam was a long-standing threat to the region (he started two wars, supported Palestinian terrorists and harbored al-Queda terrorists). Saddam Hussein had great potential to be a threat to the world via his WMD capabilities. I also think that he had WMD's but hid or removed many of them. Every major nation's intelligence forces were flat-out positive he had the weapons and it's almost impossible to fool all of the people all of the time, as President Abraham Lincoln once said.

I also continue to be a strong supporter of President Bush. As he said himself in his recent press conference: "I mean what I say". I don't agree with his immigration and Prescription Drug proposals as well as the bloated federal budget but overall, his tax cuts (which the Democrats still howl about) have helped a shaken economy recover and his leadership in the very real War on Terror visited upon us by the horrific events of 9/11/01 hasve been outstanding, against a media tide of criticism generated by the Democrats. Bush staked his re-election on the invasion of Iraq and I truly believe he did it in Americas interest, not his re-election. I predict President Bush will win re-election (Kerry is a joke) and by the end of his second term, Iraq will be stabilized and terrorism, while never gone for good, will have been effectively diminished, thanks to President Bush and the American military.

[xxxBlakexxx]

If you THINK President Bush is for the rich, you need to get your facts straight before making sweeping statements like that.

FACT: This year, there were 14 million more tax filers than last year that paid NO federal tax due to new deductions that Bush's tax plan allowed....and all of these folks are mid to lower class.

FACT: This year there were more families in the history of income tax that paid NO...that is ZERO federal tax than ever before due to Bush's tax reform. This number was over 100,000,000....all of these familes are lower wage earners.

FACT: Most Americans who earned $20,000 a year or less actually received back MORE money from the federal government than they paid out in withholding. In fact, 90% of these filers got back at least all of their money. Yet, when poled, 55% of all wage earners who made less than $20,000 stated that they pay too much in federal taxes. Seems ironic.

You can't have your cake and eat it to. John Kerry does nothing but criticize the President and offers NO solutions. He makes a larger fool of himself with each passing day.

If you want to blame the rising fuel prices on Bush, you are partially correct. The Arabs are trying to run him out of office. Gee, I wonder why? But the main reason why oil prices are high is the shortage of available refineries (down for service) and our failure to allow oil production in the US (coast and Alaska). These decisions were made by the Clinton Whitehouse.

If you think gas prices are high now, wait for five years when they double. You see, there is a huge market in China that is just now begining to open that will significantly tap into the World's oil refining capabilities. There are experts that estimate oil to hit $70 a barrel within 5 - 6 years. I suppose this will be Bush's fault to.

Lastly consider this: Let's go back to September 10th, 2001. What if the government actually were to shutdown all the airports on that day. What if we announced an invasion of all terrorist camps on that day to strike out at the terrorists? What would the world have said about us then? No, it took a disaster to wake up everyone.

When you speak against the war, you are condoning the actions of terrorists all around the world. We are at war and we have been at war for years, it just took 911 to realize that. These people do not respond to reason. They are trained at a very young age to hate US...YOU! They have millions and millions of kids in school who will grow up to be future bombers...they ARE the WMD.

To have a WMD, you must have ability to use one AND the willingness to use it. There is little doubt that the terrorists would use a WMD on us if they had one. For this reason alone, I say that they don't have them in their posession in any real level. But just as soon as they do, we will be the first ones to know. Are you willing to wait for this to happen?

Hundreds of thousands of Americans have had their lives put on hold in order to prevent another tragety and hundreds have been killed. Let's not undermine their efforts and sacrifices. This will no doubt be a long war and many more will die defending us. I truly believe that our offensive actions have stopped other potential 911's.

[Crazy Horse GT]

as a 91, gulf war vet, we should have done this then!!!!!!!!!!, i said when we left- we will be back. al gore is a dame idiot, that is all, he would have done the clinton duck & hide, KERRY, do you mean- KENNEDY. ca-ching. mr i'm a nam war vet hero, but i oppose the war, read up folk's, before this war, kennedy, uh i mean kerry, said- i vote to fight iraq, they have wmd, FACT. clinton burned me out on democrat b.s. -- mr clinton, we have a big threat from osma bin laden, -- clinton, - dont bother me now biatch, i gotta sign - NAFTA, then monica will be here l8ter, lmmfao.

[Dark_5.0]

From what I seen on 9/11 you dont have to have weapons of mass destruction to be a threat to America. Two highjacked airplanes seemed to work pretty well.

The fact is Sadaam had 2 months to stash his stuff. We had to take a proactive rather than a reactive stance. If we waited till he actually either built or bought a nuclear warhead it would be too late. He would blow Isreal off the map and then we would be over there anyways.

The job Bush is doing is a thankless one but necessary. A lesser man would have taken the easy way out.

JMO,

[bigred90gt]

Originally posted by xxxBlakexxx
But the main reason why oil prices are high is the shortage of available refineries (down for service) and our failure to allow oil production in the US (coast and Alaska). These decisions were made by the Clinton Whitehouse.


When you speak against the war, you are condoning the actions of terrorists all around the world. We are at war and we have been at war for years, it just took 911 to realize that. These people do not respond to reason. They are trained at a very young age to hate US...YOU! They have millions and millions of kids in school who will grow up to be future bombers...they ARE the WMD.

I have to disagree with your assumption (and I know for a fact that it is an assumption) that there is no oil production in the US (coast and Alaska). First off, I work in the oilfield industry, and about 90 percent of our work is in the Gulf of Mexico, just off the coasts of Texas and Louisiana. Second, my stepbrother works in the oilfields in Alaska, and they are very real. I dont know where you get your info, but you should really check it out first.

To hit on the other statement, I dont think that anyone in this country has a problem with the war on terrorism. If so, they dont deserve the freedoms they are granted by the people defending us from the terrorists. That being said, the war in Iraq is a whole different story. We went in to that country on a basis of a regime change, and them having WMD. There is evidence that at one point in time they HAD wmd, but the whole world knows that. Thats no secret. They were using 1 wheelers, oh shit, mobile WMD labs!!! WTF!!! Our efforts would have been better served in other areas of that shithole of a region, defending ourselves against terrorist, which BTW are still running free plotting and scheming because we destroyed Iraq instead of eliminating the real threat. Think of the Iraq war how you please, but dont hide the facts surrounding it.

[Fulcrum]

I am forced to disagree with that Bigred. Refineries have been and are shut down on the coast. Take a good look at Freeport, Texas. Years ago that was a really jumping town, now it's pretty much a shadow of what it once was, its almost a ghost town. Why? Because several of the refineries were shut down and took the jobs that were there. I have some family down there that were involved in real estate, they can't unload anything because everyone left and no one is coming in. It's really sad to go there now and see what has happened. I'm not in the oil industry, but I can see.

[bigred90gt]

I live in Baytown (home of Exxon Mobile), and Ii work on the port of Houston. I see every day the plants and refineries. I also drive in the traffic every day from these plants and refineries. Freeport is one town. A very small one at that. Though it is sad to see a town pretty much shut down because of the industry, there are many, many surviving oil companies. I drive about 20 miles of a freeway every day. All the way down both sides (and Ii am not exaggerating) is nothing but refineries. I smell the results of the ever growing oil industry every minute of every day. It is not taking a dive as many would believe. As technology advances, we are finding more and more oil in deeper water. You see those Kerr McGee commercials that talk about how they can now reach previously un-reachable oil? I had a part in that. There is enough oil in the gulf to outlast anyone on these boards, we just have to get to it. And slowly, we are learning more and more about that process.

[bigred90gt]

Originally posted by Fulcrum
I am forced to disagree with that Bigred. Refineries have been and are shut down on the coast. Take a good look at Freeport, Texas. Years ago that was a really jumping town, now it's pretty much a shadow of what it once was, its almost a ghost town. Why? Because several of the refineries were shut down and took the jobs that were there. I have some family down there that were involved in real estate, they can't unload anything because everyone left and no one is coming in. It's really sad to go there now and see what has happened. I'm not in the oil industry, but I can see.

PM me some info on your family that is in real estate down there if you dont mind. I have been looking for some land, and freeport has some pretty good surf (compared to Galveston). I would love to look into some land down there, that way we woudnt have to pay the rediculous rental fees just to have a get away.

[RBatson]

Blake, who spoke against the war? I'm still looking for that.. I made the thread trying to explain why the war is justified. I hear about folks on the news all the time talking about ending the war and that we shouldn't be there. I've yet to see any one on this thread say it wasn't justified, the way it came about is another story.

As far as the oil.. I think Caymon seems to have a better grasp of the oil refinery in this country than I do, though my dad has been in the oil transport business for better than 30some yrs. Its my understanding that we have quite a bit in reserve as well.. Doesn't Bush have family in the oil business??

I also don't like the 3 yr work pass handed out to the Hispanic immigrants, so they can take American jobs.

I'm neither a Democrat or a Republican, I'm American. I don't subscribe to any set political mindset, I look at what is going on and form my own opinions.

Originally posted by xxxBlakexxx
If you THINK President Bush is for the rich, you need to get your facts straight before making sweeping statements like that.

How about these facts... check out the charts at the bottom of the page. Tax plan

[bigred90gt]

Originally posted by RBatson
Blake, who spoke against the war? I'm still looking for that.. I made the thread trying to explain why the war is justified. I hear about folks on the news all the time talking about ending the war and that we shouldn't be there. I've yet to see any one on this thread say it wasn't justified, the way it came about is another story.

Now that we have gone in there, we have an obligation to stay and finish the job (rebuilding what we destroyed), but, I still feel that we shouldnt have gone there this time. I cant see a justification for this war in Iraq.

[mustardjohn]

Ever wonder why hindsight is so great? It is almost 20:20. Where the hell were all the desenters when we went in. There were damn few. So if you were one of them you can now say I told you so. If you were not..... Sounds like the post on gay marriage where everybody is talking about people taking marriage lightly resulting in high divorce rate... As I say hindsight is 20:20 or almost. So I can get married then a year later I say you said you had this or would do that and you didn't or I don't think you will or where is your WMD so now I am out here yata yata yata. Same for Iraq if you were for it or silent going in then shut up and deal with it now. It serves no purpose to look back. Look forward to an endpoint that we can achieve and go for it.

There were probably a lot of settlers who after leaving St. Louis or Kansas City said "you know maybe we shouldn't have stirred up these indians". I think they kept going.

[jsams]

this is my take on this subject, first we needed to take out saddam because he was a threat to us and the rest of the world. and yes he did or still does have wmd, they are most likely in another nearby country or coverd in sand in some camel herders back yard. second the bush tax cut was needed to jump start our economy after the clinton gore receson. and 3rd poor people do not pay taxes. the rich pay the most in taxes. and as for gas prices go the opec countrys are cutting production to make bush look bad and hurt our economy to get him out of office. and further more we would have more oil if we would go and drill in alaska and repair and or build new refinerys, but you cant get it past the tree huggers and the idot democrats in the senate. and another thing people are going to think that everything that is bad with the country is bushes falt if you watch the mainstream media because they are biased. and we are far better off with bush as pres than have that idot john f kerry! and that is my 2 cents!

[bigred90gt]

I'll be the first to say that I was all for it when it happened. You know why? Because I was un-educated on the matter. We were kickin ass and takin names, and I was all for it. I started paying attention to what was really goin on, and researching it the best I could. I now have an opinion on it that is based more on what's happening, as opposed to the fact that we were blowin stuff up and it was cool.

[mustardjohn]

I think the settlers were the same way. The further they got from Kansas City the more they knew. I think they still kept going. Cause it was worth it they thought. Is it worth it or not?

[xxxBlakexxx]

First, I apologize to RBatson. My ealier post was mis-directed, although I do stand by my position. In other words, I may have created an argument where none existed.

Second, bigred there is oil production in the US. I do not doubt this. BUT, there are those in power that want to end that as you are aware of. If certain people have their way, there will no off-shore drilling. My position is WE NEED TO REDUCE OUR RELIANCE ON FOREIGN OIL!

When we buy foreign oil, we are putting money in the hands of those who want to kill us. Same is true for illegal drug users.

jsams - BRAVO! You said it all!