simple solution to hijacking problem

1965GTO · 09-11-2001, 08:10 PM

I guess the security experts at the FAA and the airlines don't have a very high IQ. All you have to do is put security doors on the flight crew cabin and no one can hijack the plane right? Am I wrong?

[Note: This message has been edited by Mr 5 0]

Mr 5 0 · 09-11-2001, 08:51 PM

Nothing is that simple, although your security door idea is not a bad one, at that.

All a hijacker has to do is jump up, hold a gun or a knife to the head/neck of a flight attendant or child passenger and demand access to the flight cabin. They will not be refused access, security door or no security door.

Remember, 'political' hijackers are generally fanatics, often religious, and think that if they die killing an American for Allah, they go straight to valhalla. We are not dealing with rational people who say "Oh, the flight door is locked. Guess I'll forget this hijacking and order a drink". We wish.

That said, the more security, the better, but we shouldn't have to give up our freedom of movement or travel to accomodate terrorists.
I don't need some security officer asking me 'for my papers' every time I want to go somewhere. Instead, we should be eliminating the terrorists. We are in a war and all bets are off. If we cannot, as a people, find the courage to strike back at those who wish to kill our civilians, including women and children, then dance in the streets for joy to celebrate those American deaths, then we are lost. The time for talk and diplomacy is now over. Time for military action is here.

True security is found in strength.
Let's show some, now.

09-11-2001, 09:20 PM

I agree 110% with that. Time to flatten the middle east and declare it the 51st state.

46stang · 09-11-2001, 10:07 PM

rbatson: lmao. the 51st state too funny!
Mr.50 i agree totally. it's time to kick as$ and take names. they want to use our technology against us(planes) lets give them a sample of some real technology.
as for airport security it's not hard to make a knife from a hard plastic material and walk through metal detectors. metal detectors are obsolete, imo. they need those xray machines you walk past so they can scan you totally, and carry on baggage shouldn't be allowed! jmho.

------------------
96 stang,ported 99 heads, 01 bullit intake, 99 cams,Steeda power pullies,Steeda timing adj.,Kirban adj.reg.,Pro-m 87,24#inj.,Twin 57mm t/b,BBK longtube headers,Bassani x-pipe w/cats, Dynomax ultraflow catback,home depot ram air, k@n,
373's,cobra brakes,fms spings, lakewood 90/10's and 50/50's tri-ax shifter.
271.3rwhp
302.3rwtq
best et 13.80

MiracleMax · 09-11-2001, 10:35 PM

5.0,wherever politics and religion are concerned people are seldom rational.

IMO I dont think a massive counterstrike is the answer either. What would going out and bombing a country into oblivion prove (nothing except were terrorist with bigger and better bombs). I think we should sort through the mess and figure out who did what then give those foreign states suspected of containing the terorist a chance to assist, if they dont want to help then they should be declared enemies of the state and we take whatever action is nessecary to minimize the threat of something like this happening again (only a dummy would think this couldn't happen again no matter what we do). through the use of military action.

That said, this is for the pricks with the screwed up agenda that thought up this BS plan.

"KEEP PHUCKING AROUND AND BLOWING SH!T UP! WWIII IS JUST HANGING AROUND THE CORNER AND YOU DONT HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO MOVING A LARGE GROUND FORCE TO THE US OF A. SO GUESS WHAT DUMBASS! ROCKS AND SAND MAKE FOR PISS POOR COVER"

stevstum · 09-11-2001, 11:18 PM

I think they have been to soft on all the terrorist groups. When ever one of them does somthing they just prosicute the guys who did it. I think they should round them up and hang them and put it on all TV stations all over the world. Let all the world now that you don't mess with the US.

------------------
Steve Stumbaugh

89 LX 5.0 5sp.
Removed air silencer
Motorcraft 8mm wires
Autolite platinum plugs
BBK O/R h-pipe

1965GTO · 09-11-2001, 11:39 PM

If you are a pilot and a hijacker has a weapon demanding to get in the cockpit you are not going to let them in! The only thing they can do is kill people in the passenger area but they cant get in and fly the plane.

myred86gt · 09-12-2001, 01:25 AM

I'm trying to understand how people can start
dancing around for joy when a large amount of
civilians get killed. I guess these people don't even care if they put their own children in harms way as they did in Iraq!
I think it's time for a big golf corse in the
sand. Get rid of the troublemakers for good
otherwise they won't give up until everybody
is dead!
I don't believe in violence but I also don't
believe in stupidity and ignorance!

86 gt, flows, prochamber, mac shorties,
3.73s, cobraclutch, kirban fpr, hd T5,
explorer intake, speeddensity ECU

rwhite65 · 09-12-2001, 01:26 AM

not the answer, but a good solution is the cockpit door.

we have to look at the big picture here. A terrorist grabs a woman child, any other thing you can think of. If he gets in the cabin, everyone might die. If the pilot gets the plane to the ground, then that gives the police the chance to enter the plane. When the plane is in the air, the pilot is the only one who can help the passengers.

I hate to say this, but a few lives for 100? a 1000?

Also, what about some security? A while back there was a big thing about air rage and how they are training flight attendants control tactics. Please!!

The airlines are going to have to look into security that are in plain clothes randomly placed throughout the plane. In the air things are much more risky then on the ground, we need to approach it that way.

As for the retaliation...they killed our civillians in a time of peace. I will not stand for my mother, your mother, or anybody else to be killed due to this senseless B.S.

Do you know how many emergency people died today?

We are a super power, that is why they targeted us today. It is time we respond and show them just what kind of power we have. I say we take the middle east and their damn oil too. tired of their sh##.

I will gladly park my squad car and take one for this country as long as I can put a bullet in one of their rag heads. (ok that was not politically correct, but felt good.)

smokedchevy · 09-12-2001, 01:38 AM

I believe the terrorist attacks were probably from the Palestinians. Everyone in the East hates the Israelis, and we're the only country helping the Israelis by giving them money and weapons. That's probably why we're always a target of attack from Palestinian radicalists. This one really hit home, and I think it's time to show them who's boss of this planet called earth.

Unit 5302 · 09-12-2001, 02:09 AM

The Palestinians hate us, but they are not well organized enough to pull this off.

I have to agree with having armed security guards on flights from here out. Perhaps actual police officers. One in back, one in front. They do nothing but monitor the passenger area for those type of events. Not only will it cut down on air-rage, but it would make hijacking nearly impossible. Orders to shoot to kill any terrorist, regardless of hostage situation. This cannot happen again.

84LX89GT · 09-12-2001, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1965GTO:
[B]I guess the security experts at the FAA and the airlines don't have a very high IQ. All you have to do is put security doors on the flight crew cabin and no one can hijack the plane right? Am I wrong?

B]

...here's an interesting question. What if the flight crew ARE terrorists. I also believe that there should be some heavy duty doors to the cockpit and some system to where you can't open the doors to the cabin from the time you take off until you land....not much anyone can do now about this catastrophe.

Mach 1 · 09-12-2001, 04:51 AM

Its easy to armchair quarterback after the fact.

Heavy, vault like doors are not practical on an aircraft for the same reason you dont want your mustang to weigh in at 4000 lbs.

Armed guards? So how hard would it be for a couple terrorists to kill an armed guard or two?

The pilot being the only one to help the passengers in the air is absurd comment. The crew is a few people. The passengers have to defend themselves! If two terrorists are threatening you with knives, and taking over the aircraft, what do you do? Hide in the bathroom and make cell phone calls? Especially after it becomes apparant that they intend to fly these planes into the ground? No, you take action. 50 passengers can certainly take over two terrorists, but making it happen is understandably easier said than done.

Even heavy doors can be broken down. Its not a bank, its an aircraft.

There is no simple solution to this problem, and something we will have to live with if we want to have air travel.

------------------
1993 GT/AOD
'93 Mustang GT

bigwhitecobra · 09-12-2001, 09:26 AM

Thank you Mach1 !!! I'm glad someone brought this to forefront. I can assure you that if I were ever on a plane that was in this type of situation, I would gladly start opening up some whoop *** . If I get taken out, so be it.

I feel sorry for the ones that died in the flights, but they could have done alot more than evidenced.

Wounds heal, chicks dig scars, and all that macho BS. It's time we wake up form our collective slumber, take some freaking testoserone pills, and act like f'n Americans.

Just my $0.02

Snakeman · 09-12-2001, 11:27 AM

think they'd dance better with gelled gasoline on 'em?

have the doors on the outside. no access. no worries!

------------------
Rob Wegner
90LX

Mr 5 0 · 09-12-2001, 11:49 AM

Interesting responses from everyone.
I would like to reply to a few of the main ideas presented and offer my views.

As for the pilots of an airline being protected behind some bullet-proof door; that won't work for the reasons already stated.
The pilot has the safety of the passengers as his first responsibility. If a terrorist threatens to kill a passenger every five minutes until the pilot opens that door...or the terrorists will shoot a hole in the plane big enough to lose pressure in the passenger cabin; the pilot has no choice but to open the cockpit door. He can't ignore the fact that all could die if he tries to barricade himself in the cockpit...he would look cowardly, too. The plane lands, but all the passengers are dead? I don't think so.

I agree with bigwhitecobra that a planeful of people, probably at least half meale, could jump three terrorists with small knives or razors. Not as easy as in the movies, though.
No room to move in a plane, the terrorists usually grab a female and use her as a shield (you have to be prepared to see her throat slit and watch her die in order to attack the terrorists) and you need the men to be at least a bit coordinated and rush the terrorists all at once. The terrorists know this too, and usually keep everyone in their seat or otherwise separated.
I'm not saying this isn't possible, just that overcoming two or three terrorists in the confines of a plane is harder than it sounds.

I do not, by the way, advocate 'bombing a country into oblivion', as was mentioned by 'Miracle Max'. I do advocate using our military intelligence and finding the camps and bases of these terrorists, then destroying them and those who inhabit them.
I can guarantee that some of the bases will be placed in areas will a high civilian population, which means that some, possibly many civilians will be killed in the process of destroying a terrorist house, building, camp, whatever. We have to understand that this is now a war, and not be so dainty and squeamish about killing those who would kill us, without hesitation.

Attempts to draw a moral equivalent between defending ourselves from terrorist murderers and the actions of the terrorists themselves is absurd and should be rejected. I do.

Nations that harbor, support and even encourage people who they know - repeat- they know will murder innocent people sitting at a desk in New York or a child playing in a street in Israel or elsewhere, should expect to be harmed by the military of the countries they willingly allowed terrorists to infiltrate and attack.
The destruction of the World Trade Center, the attack on the Pentagon and the attempted but failed attack on Camp David all prove that we are in a war. Many middle east countries support the groups behind the terrorism and they should be put on notice that if we find terrorists and/or bases, whatever, in their country, they will be totally destroyed. If these countries wish to cooperate with us, fine, if not, they must accept the consequences of that decision.

I agree that we were attacked because we support Israel and always have supported Israel. We will continue to do so; the attacks on the U.S. have made any thought of abandoning Israel unthinkable, especially since we now have a responsible President.
As the Japanese did when they bombed Pearl Harbor in 1941, the Arab terrorists have truly awakened a 'sleeping giant'; America.
Americans do not take intimidation well, especially when thousands of our citizens are killed at their place of business. As we now know, we are at war. We will do what is necessary to win. Blood will be shed, there will be loss of life and property on both sides. The terrorists will not stop attacks on America, especially when we retaliate.
More Americans will die. One or more of us, sitting in a restaurant, driving down a highway, at our place of work, may be killed in the future. No one is immune.
The price of freedom is high, but we cannot allow 'criminals with a cause' to murder us at will, with little to no price to pay.

It won't be pretty and I hate the thought of it, but we can't go back and we cannot allow this to stand, or we are truly doomed.
I trust American and Americans will prevail.

crewzin · 09-12-2001, 11:58 AM

I know, how bout using nitrous. Ya, just hit a button and the passenger compartment floods with laughing gas. Then the bad guys can be taken out. Seriously though, maybe cameras so that the pilots can see whats going on and then using a safe short lived sleeping agent designed to act quickly. Mount it in the cabin. Walk back and disarm the bad guys.

1965GTO · 09-12-2001, 01:39 PM

MR 50 I believe you are incorrect. If pilots are ordered not to open the door for any reason during flight they will not. If you don't trust them then the doors can be made where they will not open. Or as someone else said seal it completely and put the doors on the outside. It my be hindsight but you can be sure now that it has been done, someone will do it again ,if you don't change something. And yes they can build a seperation between the cockpit and passenger compartment that is not going to be able to be kicked in. Or even shot through.

1965GTO · 09-12-2001, 01:56 PM

MR 50 you may be right about armed guards on the plane although arming everyone on the plane might be better. And I do agree it is time to kill some muslems all over the world to show them we are not taking anymore of there crap.89lx89gt its not likely that one of our aircrews would be terrorists. It is possible some terrorists could get a plane of there own and use it as a weapon.Mach 1 you dont need heavy 12" thick steel doors. How could they get through a 1" of aluminum or titanium with plastic knives and boots? As far as the passengers overtaking the terrorists it looks like they did in one of the four airplanes. They haven't said how many muslems were on each aircraft probably because of political correctness not wanting us to hate a certain type of people. I haven't hated any type of person but have known for quite some time that the extremist muslems are my enemy.

09-12-2001, 02:06 PM

Knives, boxcutters etc etc are all aloud o flights guys! If the blades are under 4", they're OK. It's true, I carried one on myself just about 2 months ago at Laguardia Airport. Also, w/in the last year, I've flown in NY, MI and FL, and out of the 6 flights/connections, I was only ID'd once......ONCE - that's part of the fukin problem. Another problem is they pay the security people and the baggage handlers minimum wage - they're easily "bought off" and they are far from thorough in their searches. I've been to Italy and Germany in the past 2 years.......anywhere outside the U.S. they have armed guards/soldiers w/ rifles and machine guns at the airports......it sounds like a good idea to me! It's time to kick some terrorist a$$!

------------------
'90 LX 5.0;12K original miles (no sh*&);3.55 gears; March pulleys;Edelbrock Performer Heads;BBK 1 5/8" equal length shorties;MSD 6AL ignition w/ blaster 2 coil;FMS E303 cam;Pro-M 75mm MAF;BBK 70mm TB; Eibach drag-launch spring kit;Southside welded subs;9" K&N cone filter charger;Hurst shifter;Cervini's 3" turbo hood;A/C delete; gutted cats;2 chamber Flomasters;Corbeau racing seats;FMS 30# injectors;JMS chip; Holley 190lb fp;TFS track heat Intake (12.299 @ 113 - 1.78 60')

09-11-2001, 08:10 PM	#1
1965GTO Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dupo,ill Posts: 219	simple solution to hijacking problem I guess the security experts at the FAA and the airlines don't have a very high IQ. All you have to do is put security doors on the flight crew cabin and no one can hijack the plane right? Am I wrong? [Note: This message has been edited by Mr 5 0]

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09-11-2001, 08:51 PM	#2
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Nothing is that simple, although your security door idea is not a bad one, at that. All a hijacker has to do is jump up, hold a gun or a knife to the head/neck of a flight attendant or child passenger and demand access to the flight cabin. They will not be refused access, security door or no security door. Remember, 'political' hijackers are generally fanatics, often religious, and think that if they die killing an American for Allah, they go straight to valhalla. We are not dealing with rational people who say "Oh, the flight door is locked. Guess I'll forget this hijacking and order a drink". We wish. That said, the more security, the better, but we shouldn't have to give up our freedom of movement or travel to accomodate terrorists. I don't need some security officer asking me 'for my papers' every time I want to go somewhere. Instead, we should be eliminating the terrorists. We are in a war and all bets are off. If we cannot, as a people, find the courage to strike back at those who wish to kill our civilians, including women and children, then dance in the streets for joy to celebrate those American deaths, then we are lost. The time for talk and diplomacy is now over. Time for military action is here. True security is found in strength. Let's show some, now.

09-11-2001, 09:20 PM	#3
rbatson Guest Posts: n/a	I agree 110% with that. Time to flatten the middle east and declare it the 51st state.

09-11-2001, 10:07 PM	#4
46stang Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: moorpark ca Posts: 340	rbatson: lmao. the 51st state too funny! Mr.50 i agree totally. it's time to kick as$ and take names. they want to use our technology against us(planes) lets give them a sample of some real technology. as for airport security it's not hard to make a knife from a hard plastic material and walk through metal detectors. metal detectors are obsolete, imo. they need those xray machines you walk past so they can scan you totally, and carry on baggage shouldn't be allowed! jmho. ------------------ 96 stang,ported 99 heads, 01 bullit intake, 99 cams,Steeda power pullies,Steeda timing adj.,Kirban adj.reg.,Pro-m 87,24#inj.,Twin 57mm t/b,BBK longtube headers,Bassani x-pipe w/cats, Dynomax ultraflow catback,home depot ram air, k@n, 373's,cobra brakes,fms spings, lakewood 90/10's and 50/50's tri-ax shifter. 271.3rwhp 302.3rwtq best et 13.80

09-11-2001, 10:35 PM	#5
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	5.0,wherever politics and religion are concerned people are seldom rational. IMO I dont think a massive counterstrike is the answer either. What would going out and bombing a country into oblivion prove (nothing except were terrorist with bigger and better bombs). I think we should sort through the mess and figure out who did what then give those foreign states suspected of containing the terorist a chance to assist, if they dont want to help then they should be declared enemies of the state and we take whatever action is nessecary to minimize the threat of something like this happening again (only a dummy would think this couldn't happen again no matter what we do). through the use of military action. That said, this is for the pricks with the screwed up agenda that thought up this BS plan. "KEEP PHUCKING AROUND AND BLOWING SH!T UP! WWIII IS JUST HANGING AROUND THE CORNER AND YOU DONT HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO MOVING A LARGE GROUND FORCE TO THE US OF A. SO GUESS WHAT DUMBASS! ROCKS AND SAND MAKE FOR PISS POOR COVER"

09-11-2001, 11:18 PM	#6
stevstum Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Salem, Or. USA Posts: 233	I think they have been to soft on all the terrorist groups. When ever one of them does somthing they just prosicute the guys who did it. I think they should round them up and hang them and put it on all TV stations all over the world. Let all the world now that you don't mess with the US. ------------------ Steve Stumbaugh 89 LX 5.0 5sp. Removed air silencer Motorcraft 8mm wires Autolite platinum plugs BBK O/R h-pipe

09-11-2001, 11:39 PM	#7
1965GTO Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dupo,ill Posts: 219	If you are a pilot and a hijacker has a weapon demanding to get in the cockpit you are not going to let them in! The only thing they can do is kill people in the passenger area but they cant get in and fly the plane.

09-12-2001, 01:25 AM	#8
myred86gt Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 17	I'm trying to understand how people can start dancing around for joy when a large amount of civilians get killed. I guess these people don't even care if they put their own children in harms way as they did in Iraq! I think it's time for a big golf corse in the sand. Get rid of the troublemakers for good otherwise they won't give up until everybody is dead! I don't believe in violence but I also don't believe in stupidity and ignorance! 86 gt, flows, prochamber, mac shorties, 3.73s, cobraclutch, kirban fpr, hd T5, explorer intake, speeddensity ECU

09-12-2001, 01:26 AM	#9
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	not the answer, but a good solution is the cockpit door. we have to look at the big picture here. A terrorist grabs a woman child, any other thing you can think of. If he gets in the cabin, everyone might die. If the pilot gets the plane to the ground, then that gives the police the chance to enter the plane. When the plane is in the air, the pilot is the only one who can help the passengers. I hate to say this, but a few lives for 100? a 1000? Also, what about some security? A while back there was a big thing about air rage and how they are training flight attendants control tactics. Please!! The airlines are going to have to look into security that are in plain clothes randomly placed throughout the plane. In the air things are much more risky then on the ground, we need to approach it that way. As for the retaliation...they killed our civillians in a time of peace. I will not stand for my mother, your mother, or anybody else to be killed due to this senseless B.S. Do you know how many emergency people died today? We are a super power, that is why they targeted us today. It is time we respond and show them just what kind of power we have. I say we take the middle east and their damn oil too. tired of their sh##. I will gladly park my squad car and take one for this country as long as I can put a bullet in one of their rag heads. (ok that was not politically correct, but felt good.)

09-12-2001, 01:38 AM	#10
smokedchevy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: ventura,CA Posts: 438	I believe the terrorist attacks were probably from the Palestinians. Everyone in the East hates the Israelis, and we're the only country helping the Israelis by giving them money and weapons. That's probably why we're always a target of attack from Palestinian radicalists. This one really hit home, and I think it's time to show them who's boss of this planet called earth.

09-12-2001, 02:09 AM	#11
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	The Palestinians hate us, but they are not well organized enough to pull this off. I have to agree with having armed security guards on flights from here out. Perhaps actual police officers. One in back, one in front. They do nothing but monitor the passenger area for those type of events. Not only will it cut down on air-rage, but it would make hijacking nearly impossible. Orders to shoot to kill any terrorist, regardless of hostage situation. This cannot happen again.

09-12-2001, 04:51 AM	#13
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	Its easy to armchair quarterback after the fact. Heavy, vault like doors are not practical on an aircraft for the same reason you dont want your mustang to weigh in at 4000 lbs. Armed guards? So how hard would it be for a couple terrorists to kill an armed guard or two? The pilot being the only one to help the passengers in the air is absurd comment. The crew is a few people. The passengers have to defend themselves! If two terrorists are threatening you with knives, and taking over the aircraft, what do you do? Hide in the bathroom and make cell phone calls? Especially after it becomes apparant that they intend to fly these planes into the ground? No, you take action. 50 passengers can certainly take over two terrorists, but making it happen is understandably easier said than done. Even heavy doors can be broken down. Its not a bank, its an aircraft. There is no simple solution to this problem, and something we will have to live with if we want to have air travel. ------------------ 1993 GT/AOD '93 Mustang GT

09-12-2001, 09:26 AM	#14
bigwhitecobra Huh? Whatcha said? Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 1,073	Thank you Mach1 !!! I'm glad someone brought this to forefront. I can assure you that if I were ever on a plane that was in this type of situation, I would gladly start opening up some whoop *** . If I get taken out, so be it. I feel sorry for the ones that died in the flights, but they could have done alot more than evidenced. Wounds heal, chicks dig scars, and all that macho BS. It's time we wake up form our collective slumber, take some freaking testoserone pills, and act like f'n Americans. Just my $0.02

09-12-2001, 11:27 AM	#15
Snakeman Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Grass Valley, CA, USA Posts: 1,389	think they'd dance better with gelled gasoline on 'em? have the doors on the outside. no access. no worries! ------------------ Rob Wegner 90LX

09-12-2001, 11:49 AM	#16
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Interesting responses from everyone. I would like to reply to a few of the main ideas presented and offer my views. As for the pilots of an airline being protected behind some bullet-proof door; that won't work for the reasons already stated. The pilot has the safety of the passengers as his first responsibility. If a terrorist threatens to kill a passenger every five minutes until the pilot opens that door...or the terrorists will shoot a hole in the plane big enough to lose pressure in the passenger cabin; the pilot has no choice but to open the cockpit door. He can't ignore the fact that all could die if he tries to barricade himself in the cockpit...he would look cowardly, too. The plane lands, but all the passengers are dead? I don't think so. I agree with bigwhitecobra that a planeful of people, probably at least half meale, could jump three terrorists with small knives or razors. Not as easy as in the movies, though. No room to move in a plane, the terrorists usually grab a female and use her as a shield (you have to be prepared to see her throat slit and watch her die in order to attack the terrorists) and you need the men to be at least a bit coordinated and rush the terrorists all at once. The terrorists know this too, and usually keep everyone in their seat or otherwise separated. I'm not saying this isn't possible, just that overcoming two or three terrorists in the confines of a plane is harder than it sounds. I do not, by the way, advocate 'bombing a country into oblivion', as was mentioned by 'Miracle Max'. I do advocate using our military intelligence and finding the camps and bases of these terrorists, then destroying them and those who inhabit them. I can guarantee that some of the bases will be placed in areas will a high civilian population, which means that some, possibly many civilians will be killed in the process of destroying a terrorist house, building, camp, whatever. We have to understand that this is now a war, and not be so dainty and squeamish about killing those who would kill us, without hesitation. Attempts to draw a moral equivalent between defending ourselves from terrorist murderers and the actions of the terrorists themselves is absurd and should be rejected. I do. Nations that harbor, support and even encourage people who they know - repeat- they know will murder innocent people sitting at a desk in New York or a child playing in a street in Israel or elsewhere, should expect to be harmed by the military of the countries they willingly allowed terrorists to infiltrate and attack. The destruction of the World Trade Center, the attack on the Pentagon and the attempted but failed attack on Camp David all prove that we are in a war. Many middle east countries support the groups behind the terrorism and they should be put on notice that if we find terrorists and/or bases, whatever, in their country, they will be totally destroyed. If these countries wish to cooperate with us, fine, if not, they must accept the consequences of that decision. I agree that we were attacked because we support Israel and always have supported Israel. We will continue to do so; the attacks on the U.S. have made any thought of abandoning Israel unthinkable, especially since we now have a responsible President. As the Japanese did when they bombed Pearl Harbor in 1941, the Arab terrorists have truly awakened a 'sleeping giant'; America. Americans do not take intimidation well, especially when thousands of our citizens are killed at their place of business. As we now know, we are at war. We will do what is necessary to win. Blood will be shed, there will be loss of life and property on both sides. The terrorists will not stop attacks on America, especially when we retaliate. More Americans will die. One or more of us, sitting in a restaurant, driving down a highway, at our place of work, may be killed in the future. No one is immune. The price of freedom is high, but we cannot allow 'criminals with a cause' to murder us at will, with little to no price to pay. It won't be pretty and I hate the thought of it, but we can't go back and we cannot allow this to stand, or we are truly doomed. I trust American and Americans will prevail.

09-12-2001, 11:58 AM	#17
crewzin Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Sour Lake, TX Posts: 211	I know, how bout using nitrous. Ya, just hit a button and the passenger compartment floods with laughing gas. Then the bad guys can be taken out. Seriously though, maybe cameras so that the pilots can see whats going on and then using a safe short lived sleeping agent designed to act quickly. Mount it in the cabin. Walk back and disarm the bad guys.

09-12-2001, 01:39 PM	#18
1965GTO Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dupo,ill Posts: 219	MR 50 I believe you are incorrect. If pilots are ordered not to open the door for any reason during flight they will not. If you don't trust them then the doors can be made where they will not open. Or as someone else said seal it completely and put the doors on the outside. It my be hindsight but you can be sure now that it has been done, someone will do it again ,if you don't change something. And yes they can build a seperation between the cockpit and passenger compartment that is not going to be able to be kicked in. Or even shot through.

09-12-2001, 01:56 PM	#19
1965GTO Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dupo,ill Posts: 219	MR 50 you may be right about armed guards on the plane although arming everyone on the plane might be better. And I do agree it is time to kill some muslems all over the world to show them we are not taking anymore of there crap.89lx89gt its not likely that one of our aircrews would be terrorists. It is possible some terrorists could get a plane of there own and use it as a weapon.Mach 1 you dont need heavy 12" thick steel doors. How could they get through a 1" of aluminum or titanium with plastic knives and boots? As far as the passengers overtaking the terrorists it looks like they did in one of the four airplanes. They haven't said how many muslems were on each aircraft probably because of political correctness not wanting us to hate a certain type of people. I haven't hated any type of person but have known for quite some time that the extremist muslems are my enemy.

09-12-2001, 02:06 PM	#20
bada$$lx Guest Posts: n/a	Knives, boxcutters etc etc are all aloud o flights guys! If the blades are under 4", they're OK. It's true, I carried one on myself just about 2 months ago at Laguardia Airport. Also, w/in the last year, I've flown in NY, MI and FL, and out of the 6 flights/connections, I was only ID'd once......ONCE - that's part of the fukin problem. Another problem is they pay the security people and the baggage handlers minimum wage - they're easily "bought off" and they are far from thorough in their searches. I've been to Italy and Germany in the past 2 years.......anywhere outside the U.S. they have armed guards/soldiers w/ rifles and machine guns at the airports......it sounds like a good idea to me! It's time to kick some terrorist a$$! ------------------ '90 LX 5.0;12K original miles (no sh*&);3.55 gears; March pulleys;Edelbrock Performer Heads;BBK 1 5/8" equal length shorties;MSD 6AL ignition w/ blaster 2 coil;FMS E303 cam;Pro-M 75mm MAF;BBK 70mm TB; Eibach drag-launch spring kit;Southside welded subs;9" K&N cone filter charger;Hurst shifter;Cervini's 3" turbo hood;A/C delete; gutted cats;2 chamber Flomasters;Corbeau racing seats;FMS 30# injectors;JMS chip; Holley 190lb fp;TFS track heat Intake (12.299 @ 113 - 1.78 60')