Stupid cops!
 

Two days ago I was pulled over on base. I wasen't speeding, didn't break traction, didn't do anything wrong. So anyhow, he comes up to the window, asks for the Usual stuff. Then he says, "Do u know what u did wrong?"

"I have no idea." Which I didn't.

then he goes on how I was do exibition of speed. I told him that it's an automatic and I have no control over its shifting, I had it in drive. What my car did was stayed in first till about 25mph, then shifted like normal, the car was still cold.

He goes away, does his usual cop stuff. Then comes back, gives me a ticket and tells me that it for my ''modified exaust" that is too loud, and that he could see my black lights from the front of my car. Which is a lie because he was never in front of it, plus I have it hidden from the front, viewable only from the extreme low rear part of the rear window, and from the inside.

So I give the ticket to the First shirt yesterday and talked to him about it. HE said don't worry about it, it's a BS ticket. I then asked about there being any kind of guidelines for exaust on a '66 mustang. He said there wasen't any sort of thing. All I have to have is mufflers. Which I have CHerry bombs under it.

As I was leaving, I over heard him talking to the commander about his exaust on his '88 corvette. He has a highly modded corvette, preatty much everything u can do to it, he did.

Anywho, this is what he said, and I quote, "I'd like to see them pull me over in my car. I just put a new exaust system on it."

Hehe, good to have a fellow muscle head in the high ranking area.

nice. gotta love when you have a fellow brethren to help you out in bs times like that.

Re: Stupid cops!
 

There may not be any restrictions on the base, but in this state, the minute you drive off of it, your exhaust can not exceed 82 decibles while under 35 mph, or 90 decibles above 35 mph. Period.

Take care,
-Chris

cops
 

I had some dumb cop pull me over for my exhaust being to loud. "Your exhaust its illegal", to which i said, "no it isn't". "My exhaust has cats, and has passed for emisions, be my guest and crawl under the car and take a look". He didn't like my answer, and said "well i heard you coming up the street, what do you have, glasspaks"? I then said to him, "what are glasspaks?" "Isn't that some kind of modifcation for exhaust that they used in the last 60's and 70's"? He just stared at me, took my information, and went back to his car. When he came back, he told me that he was just giving me a warning, and that if he ever caught me speeding or racing in his town that he would give me a ticket. Yes officer, thankyou very much. And fix that exhaust, it is to loud, again, yes officer, thankyou very much.

I think that some guys are just jealous, especially cops and just can't handle the fact that i'm driving my sweet highly modified car around town, that is legally registered and insured, and doing the speed limit. Therefore they look for reasons to pull me over, just to bust my chops.

It's just like penis envy, f'ing rediculous.

I guess thats the price you pay to have a nice car.

Mike

That is craziness. Stupid cops, my car is pretty loud aswell, I havn't started driving it but I do wonder what will happen if I'm drive beside a cop and my car is just roaring and I'm driving totally normal. Ohh... well they are legal so I guess I have nothing to worry about.

Sorry to be stupid but can someone explain me what exactly "glasspaks" are. I've heard of them and I kinda know what they do just not exactly all the details.

Take Care,
§am.

me and my girlfriend were out about a week ago and we were sittin at the stop light. the lighted turned so i just drove off normally. i usually dont get on it to hard b-cause my exhaust is not legal(no cats) anyways as turn the corner i see this cop starin at me. now im an @$$hole who has got to start trouble when cops stare. so i went bye him in first gear at about 30-35 loud as hell. so in my rearview i see him turn around. now i could have easily made a run for it and blistered his *** but i wanted to hear his reason for pullin me. his answer blew me away.

COP: do you know why i pulled you over
ME: no sir
COP: your window tint is too dark
ME: uhh ok

anyways he checks my tint ( my girl was laughin her *** off at him) but sure enough its too dark so he writes me a ticket and im on my way home. little does he know that i knoe like a thousand cops and it turns out this guy is an acceptional prick. but one of the cops helped me get the first layer of tint off. yeH I HAD two layers. and then proceeds to tell me to take him to court and make him look like an *** which i did. they said his tint meter was malfunctioning!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you were wrong and you lied to get out of a ticket. You also mislead a judge/court into believing that the officer gave you an improper citation. The guy may be an @$$ but, he was right. I can't say that I agree with the tactics. If the guy gave you a ticket and he was wrong then by all means, get the ticket quashed. However, to lie, cheat and otherwise besmirch the officers reputation was, in my opinion, wrong.

What you have done is convince whomever was in that courtroom that officers are not to be trusted. After all, the officer you "made look like an ***" was a lier right?

Sorry, this time you get the thumbs down.

blwn93

Sorry, your post really pissed me off. First the whole "stupid cops" thing irks me. You make it seem as officers are the enemy. When someone steals your precious 93 who you gonna call, "Stupid cops."

Yep, and who's not gonna give a rats ***? The cops. Who are you gonna call when your car gets vandalized? The cops. Guess who doesn't care. The cops. Who are you going to call when you don't get your part you ordered 3 months ago, and paid in advance $2000? Excessive Motorsports. Guess who doesn't care? Excessive Motorsports, lol. People who whine about the cops helping you (sometimes) when you need them to need to get it out of their head that the cop is doing you a favor. :rolleyes: He's doing his job. I don't need a "golly gee wiz you're great, Kell" every time I do my job. Why does a cop feel that he deserves it?

Sorry, but the misguided belief that everything is hunky dorey and all ends up as it should when dealing with the cops is kindergarden thinking. You have to do whatever you can to get out of any ticket you get. You're right, blwn93 made people believe officers are not to be trusted. I have breaking news for you, in many cases, they aren't. You need to fight every ticket you get. Make it a waste of the state's time to give out tickets. That is the only way to make sure viable tickets are being handed out, and the BS ones don't. If an officer knows he's gonna get his *** chewed for giving a ticket out when he shouldn't have, he'll stick to giving out tickets when people really deserve them.

To throw a little fuel on the fire, as a general rule, police officers aren't the cream of the crop. A man was recently denied a job as a police officer because he was "too smart." That's right, he tested too high on their evaluation. The man took it to court under an anti-discrimination suit and lost. The final ruling basically said nobody that smart would stay a cop for long.

we have BIGGER PROBLEMS in the world to deal with
 

You know what,there are bigger problems in this world to worry about then someone having "too loud of exhaust" "too dark of window tint" :rolleyes:

i know there are alot of lame cops out there, but there are a few good cops. i know a couple personally and there have been tell me and other fellow car owners loop holes (there are alot of loop holes too) to the many laws of our province. also finally some got off there butts and book time at the local drag strips and let anyone rip it up down the strip and they help out setting it up and start each race. and they are pushing for more of these drag strips so that people, mostly the younger ones can get the experience needed to actually control there cars. its fun cause you don't have to worry about other people or getting nailed by another car. but as for pulling someone over for being a little loud, get real i run a pipe right from the manifold to the muffler to the tip and i haven't been pulled over yet. those cops got to find something better to do. man so many ricers have louder cars than me (louder, not better sounding either). but do you guys know of any good way to lift the back end a bit (its to get a more hot rod look, lowered is just too common a look) and still keep it kinda stiff? but hey thats just me. talk to ya all later.

Because every time they put on that badge...every time they pull someone over for any reason...any time they respond to any kind of call...there is a chance they will die.


If that's true of your job, Kell, then you deserve a pat on the back. Otherwise, don't trivialize the courage it takes to "protect and serve".

I never said everything was hunky dorey.

What I did say, and he admitted it, was that he lied to the court to a judge and to whomever made the final decision on his ticket. I have a problem with that. How much was the ticket going to cost $100. Big whoop. Grow up, and take responsibility for your actions.

I think the deceptive tactics ( THE LIE) sets a bad example. It's your right to fight every ticket; it is not your right to lie, decieve, or mislead the courts. That is my issue. Not that he fought the ticket. It's the method (LIE) he used to fight the ticket. There was no mistake with this ticket. He was wrong and he was written for it. He admitted to taking off the tint prior to court (decieving triers of fact) so that he could avoid the ticket and make the officer look studid.

We can't choose the laws to which we are going to abide. It's a law, he broke it. Pay the fine, remove the tint, and take responsibility for your actions.

Re: we have BIGGER PROBLEMS in the world to deal with
 

I'll say it again.... We can choose either to abide by certain laws or to disregard them. There are reasons for the laws. Many an officer has been killed because of his inability to determine threats inside a vehicle with a tint that is "too dark." Hence the law against limo tint on cars. The exhaust issue, I believe, relates to publc nuisance problems.

All I'm saying is if you are doing 90 in a 55 and an officer writes you. Pay the fine, contest the ticket but don't lie about it. THAT'S JUST SORRY!

You are right the officer is not doing you a favor he is doing his job. I didn't say that you should give him a pat on his back. I say let the guy do his job. In general, I don't believe officers feel that they should get a pat on their back for doing their job. However, they shouldn't have people spitting in their face either (ie. lying and misleading judges).

What are you talking about?:confused: Officers are not to be trusted. Where did he, blwn93, validate that statement. He, blwn93, admitted to breaking the law, tampering with evidence and basically lying to a judge. How do you equate that to, "police officers aren't to be trusted." That is nonsense.

A man was recently denied........ blah blah blah... There once was a man from Nantuckett.

Let's just say that your last statement sounds like a self serving fairy tale. Thanks, I needed a good bedtime story.

Elliot

A little bit of a flame war going on here hu?


Fist of all, the title "Stupid Cops" refers to the officers who pulled me over. Now, as a an officer,elliotness, u can't tell me every cop is perfect. U and everyone else knows that there are the few that have nothing more to do then bug ppl. It is these few that give all cops a bad name. My car is loud, yes, but he gave me a ticketfor a "modified exaust". Well no SH**, it's a '66, u think it's going to have the stock exaust??? Hell no!

Not trying to flame, just stating an opinion.

I think your citation was BS. The officer should have thought a little bit before writing that citation. I think if you had taken that to court; a judge would have dismissed the citation.

I think blwn93's citation was BS also. It was trivial and the guy (officer) was probably just looking for something to write him.
I just did not agree with his tactics for having it dismissed. For clarification, I am not a police officer, nor have I ever been one. I have never written a citation.

I don't believe officers are perfect. Some are @$$holes. However, most are hardworking professionals. The @$$holes are the exception.

News Story
 

NEW HAVEN, Conn. (AP) --

September 8, 1999

The New London Police Department's rejection of Robert Jordan because he scored too high on an intelligence test did not violate his rights, according to a United States District Court Judge.

The city's rationale for the long-standing practice is that candidates who score too high could soon get bored with police work and quit after undergoing costly academy training.

The judge said there is no evidence that a high score is in any way related to job satisfaction, performance or turnover. But he said: "The question is not whether a rational basis has been shown for the policy chosen by defendants. Plaintiff may have been disqualified unwisely, but he was not denied equal protection.''

In 1996, Robert Jordan scored a 33, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. Nationally the average score for police officers, as well as office workers, bank tellers and salespeople, is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104.

Police in New London, population 27,000, interviewed only those candidates who scored 20 to 27.

City manager Richard Brown said the hiring process will remain the same. "There has been nothing to come across my desk that would cause me to make a change,'' he said.

Doesn't sound like a very good process for screening applicants.

Elliot

Sometime during the summer of 1984, along Pacific Coast Highway, near Point Mugu Rock, early morning hours:

After being pulled over by a CHP:

Officer: Good morning. May I please see your license and registration?

Me: Sure Officer. Would you hold my beer for a minute?

That led to my second drunk driving arrest. In those days, I received enough tickets to wallpaper a small bathroom. I deserved most of them, but I didn't think so then. I haven't received a traffic ticket for 5 or 6 years now. The difference? I grew up. At least a little bit. :rolleyes:

While I know there were at least one or two cops that intentionally had it out for me, there were dozens more who probably saved my life.

Take care,
-Chris

your too funny chris

Yeah, but looks aren't everything!

Take care,
-Chris

Jeb_Bush_2000. I hate to break it to you, but under NO circumstances does a person choosing to pursue a career in power abuse constitute instant respect from me. Cops are nothing more than any other profession to me. No pat on the back every time they do their job. You need to grow up.

elliotness Recent examples point to poor reading and comprehension skills for police officers. Blwn93 did nothing wrong. He was the guy down the thread a ways who was pulled over because the officer thought his exhaust was too loud, even though the mufflers and cats were on the car. I never began to say mustangman didn't do anything wrong.

Cops
 

I posted that 1999 Associated Press wire story only because you questioned Unit 5302's veracity. He wasn't lying - was he? Your acknowledgment that he was correct in his original statement that alluded to that case (and that you dismissed out of hand) would be welcomed, I'm sure.

As for hiring processes, it's probably as useful as any other but it made the New London Police Department look rather foolish by rejecting 'too smart' applicants.

I take the position that there are good cops and bad cops and unlike TV, a lot of the lower-rung local cops are on
traffic duty and are the ones the public deals with. As far as 'The Law', well, it's not the law that's the problem but how the law is administered.

The cop pulling you over has many options and can harrass you or simply let you go with a verbal warning - if that. Unfortunately, some cops abuse the power we willingly give them. Most don't, but the average citizen doesn't meet high-ranking officers or detectives, just the patrolman in the squad car. Most cops don't have highly-developed people skills either, and it shows.

Of course, most rich and influential people don't go to jail or even get many traffic tickets that aren't quashed. That's just reality but it grates on the working stiff who may have to lose a valuable day's pay to fight a bogus traffic ticket that the same cop wouldn't give to the local big shot driving a Mercedes-Benz and doing exactly what Joe Sixpack did, like having too much window tint. Folks see this as just the police abusing their authority where they can get away with it. It doesn't sit well.

Another problem a lot of folks have with the local police is that, as Unit mentioned, they don't care much about vandalism to your car, petty thefts from your home or car or other frustrating crimes that the average person encounters, but yet, they can get all excited over tinted glass and exhaust decibles.

Yet the defense is that 'Police can't be everywhere' and 'They have to prioritize crimes to use resources effectively' so pulling over a motorist and issuing tickets for mufflers and tinted glass is a 'priority' but catching thieves who steal your car is hardly looked into, unless they happen to see the stolen car in front of them? Who's kidding whom?

Look, we need laws - including traffic laws - and we certainly need police to enforce those laws, fairly. Not all police do that and the attitude of some is offensive to many.

Personally, I don't have a problem with cops. I don't do dumb things and as I'm white, not a kid, middle-class (no nose-rings or freaky hair) and I treat police with respect when I'm stopped (rare) I don't get into trouble. Granted, if you 'cop a 'tude' with a cop at a traffic stop, you're begging for tickets and worse. That's stupid. Fight the ticket in court if you feel it's bogus but don't try to argue with the cop as you'll lose.

Finally, although I respect a police officer mostly because of the potential power he holds over me, I understand that he may put his life on the line at any time. I do respect that but it doesn't excuse a lot of the harassing things some cops engage in. It doesn't make any police officer immune from criticism, either.

Doctors save lives every day, researchers find cures for disease, mothers love their children and ministers help save souls. So what? They're all subject to criticism.

Being in a dangerous job you volunteered for is admirable but not enough to make you above everyone else. Cops are human, they make mistakes. Unfortunately, a cop that makes a mistake can put you in jail and possibly ruin your life. That is a powerful position to be in and one that we have to respect but also watch the possessors of such power carefully and subject them to criticism when warranted. This thread is doing just that, while understanding that it's all just opinion and of course, we can't arrest you if you disagree.

.

I disagree with you
 

Okay,

My post was not in reference to mustangman everyone can see that he was wrong. He did not deny he was wrong.

My post was in response to Blwn93 and his actions to avoid his ticket.

When you tamper with evidence, remove the illegal tint from your car prior to court, you have done something wrong. The act of removing the tint is more egregious than the original violation.

If he Blwn93 made any statement to the court indicating his tint was legal, he perjured himself. That is also wrong.

If he made no statement but led the court to believe that his tint was legal. That is also wrong.

He broke the law again. You must understand that his actions, removing the tint misleading the court, were wrong. *hit they were criminal. So, your argument that he did nothing wrong has a few holes in it.

If you want to say that his actions were justifiable given the trivial nature of his original offense, then say that. Saying that he did "nothing wrong" is just not accurate.

This has been fun, let's try it again sometime.

Elliot

Something that is important to point out is not every officer has his own choice as to what kind of laws he enforces. The chief may get pressure from the mayor to bust more speeders, etc. Still, I think that police officers use prejudice when enforcing the laws. The seemingly aggressive push to target traffic violations is impossible not to see. I truely believe revenue is the only reason for such activity. While people may be able to curb some ridiculous tactics, when revenue comes into the picture, the politics get thick.

I also think they are extremely prejudice when it comes to listening. A young guy in a Mustang GT like myself will most likely be ignored and his account of the infraction, accident, or any other incident involving the police will be brushed aside. I have been on the receiving end of this, and quite frankly, it goes beyond making me angry.

I've had a few experiences with police (never more than a traffic violation). Some good, far more were handled very poorly. I see the common defense of police officers by people is that they know good cops personally. One of my best friends will be an officer in Mesa, AZ starting this summer. Is he good to me? Yep. Will he be good to people he doesn't know, I hate to say it, but I have extreme doubts.

Re: I disagree with you
 

LOL!!

Man, you really need to learn to R E A D. As I've said 2X now. Blwn93 doesn't have any damn TINT. Never did. mustangman had the fricken tint. Cripes. Blwn93 got pulled over for EXHAUST. Yet he had catalytic converters AND mufflers.

You're not making police look real good in the intellegence area right now, LOL.

Personally, I think you need to grow up. However, I'm not one to insult people over the 'net, so I won't go any further than that.


It's pretty clear, Unit, that you've had some sort of negative experience with the police. Maybe when you were a kid, someone stole your bike, and they never found it. Maybe you were having some harmless fun, and you got chewed out for it. Whatever the case, you've had nothing but negative contact with them.


Am I denying that there are a**hole cops? Of course not. But there are a**holes in every profession. Cashiers, bank tellers, lawyers, doctors. All of them might very well be an a**hole. Of course, a cashier can't overcharge you by hundreds of dollars because they don't like the kinds of things you bought.


Anyway, I accidentially deleted the previous draft of this post, and am retyping it from memory, and now I think I've left a part out, so I'll go right to the Big Finish.


I had said it in an earlier post, but I think it bears repeating: When you put your health and wellbeing in the hands of every lowlife with a grudge against the police...not for your own personal gains, but for the greater good of the public...then you can go on a tirade about how all cops are corrupt pricks with every agenda but justice on their minds. Until then, shut up and take it like a man. The "I hate cops" thing is getting old.

You just did insult me.

READ above post. Some good, the majority bad. Don't make light of my experiences with the police. Actually, you're illustrating my point to a T. You fit the cop doesn't give a rats mentality profile quite well.

This you do have correct. Unfortunately, because they have greater power, they need to have more respect for that power. In my contact with them, they actually have less respect for the power they have.

Police don't get into their line of work to help people. Don't be nieve. The vast majority (speaking as a person who has several friends becoming police) become police because of the power. They were beat up in school, or got their lunch money stolen, or they just get off on screwing people over and being able to get away with it. Self indulgent ego maniacs. I would wager a great deal of money on very few police officers going into their profession to "help people." I really could care less if they want to lay their life on the line, chances are they couldn't make it in a normal profession because of their inability to deal with being a normal person having no control over others. Their call. How about responding to 7 auto break ins in 3 nights in a 2 block area?

Again, I think you're the one being naive. It's easy to jump on the "I hate cops" bandwagon.


In a "police state", I would agree. I think the majority of the Gestapo fit that profile.


They sure don't do it for the paycheck.


Exactly my point. They weren't drafted into the force. It was a choice they made.

I'm tired of this all police are poor attitude. They make GOOD *** money here. $50k STARTING. Own car to take home at night. $50k a year is damn good money for a service job, starting.

Is that for state, or local?

Re: Cops
 

Re: Re: I disagree with you
 

Not going to take the bait. I'll just let you know again. I am not a POLICE OFFICER.

My apologies Blwn93 I had you mixed up with mustang man.

Elliot

It's the local guys. State Troopers don't do too bad here either, but you don't start off as one. Sheriffs would obviously depend greatly on their jurisdiction.

More Cops
 

elliotness:

Thanks for your opinion and yes, I was addressing my comments to you, as your posts are very pro-police and while you give lip-service to their faults you seem to ultimately find the danger of the job to be a trump card for most all arguments against police behavior that is illegal, harrassing or in any way negative. I'll get to that, later.

The New London police hiring story was real, of course, and I don't believe for a nanosecond that they are the only police department in the country that does this kind of testing with those limits. It's probably quite common but never advertised - for obvious reasons.

Your argument that a cop can ARREST you (emphasis yours) instead of issuing a citation is factually correct. We all know that if every motorist with tinted glass or a loud exhaust was ARRESTED (taken into custody, booked, bail set) the legal system would explode within days if not hours, so that's a straw man argument. It would never happen. The citation is as much for the police and courts convenience as it is for the citizen. It's a fair trade, by the way.

Yes, 'elliot', Police departments have divisions b but we've had many members report that after having a car stolen or vandalized, the cops mostly 'go through the motions' and if you complain you're told that they only have so many men available and a vandalized or even another stolen car isn't a high priority. Not encouraging.

When traffic-duty police make arrests for tinted glass and exhaust noise it's perfectly justified but obviously petty and mostly legal nit-picking. Jaywalking and spitting on the sidewalk are illegal and you can be cited for doing so but it's still a rather trivial use of police power all the same, even if you can wave the law book at someone and claim 'it's illegal'! Most everything is, it seems.

I'll trade Devil's Advocate suits with you for a moment and readily agree that police officers have to deal with a lot of trashy people and take a lot of bad attitude all the time. I truly believe this hardens them somewhat to the average law-abiding citizen with some minor automobile defect that they pull over. I believe that the hardened officer starts to think everyone is a 'perp' and is expecting trouble when he pulls you over, hence, the attitude on his part.

That's why when I treat police officers with respect I usually get it back, with or without a ticket.

On the issue that riles you the most, the illegal window tint, I agree that tampering with it was wrong, lacking integrity and illegal, although not the terrible crime you seem to think it is. Your reaction to that seems to be beyond what it deserves but so be it. Nothing either of us can do to change it.

Finally, the fact that seems to obscure all others for you is that cops can get killed in the line of duty. That's factual but more emotion than logic when we think that whatever else they do, the life-threatening nature of the job justifies it.

You may wish to deny you think this, but at the end of every pro-police post is usually the line, often in caps and bold; THEY CAN BE KILLED!!!!!!! I can almost hear the unspoken "So There!" that would follow this statement.

Sorry, 'elliot'. I respect the life-threatening nature of the job (most folks do) but young men (and women) line up for these dangerous jobs, take extensive tests, go through background checks, wait months, maybe years to be accepted and go through a difficult training process plus even have to pay for their own uniforms in many cases.

They want to be a police officer, they strive hard to get there and they willingly accept the very real risks involved but then, when they harrass a motorist the fall-back is always; 'They could DIE!'

Well, truckers can die on the highway, pilots can die in the sky, workers in chemical plants can die from toxins, etc and they all volunteered to be there. So while I respect the danger and frustration the police officer faces every day - and I don't minimize it - he/she volunteered for that danger, knowing full well what the job entailed. They don't work for free and they can retire with half-pay in twenty years (usually before 45) and start a new career if they choose. Most don't die on the job, as you know. It's tragic when they do but it's also quite rare.

Police work is a calling, not a job. The fact that it's dangerous is a given and eagerly accepted, apparently, by those who choose to do the work and take on the risk.

I applaud that dedication, I respect the dangers but I don't give anyone a pass because of it and I don't find trivial application of the law to harrass otherwise law-abiding citizens to be trumped by how dangerous the police officer's job is. Not relevant when discussing the specifics of traffic law enforcement, except that the officer needs to be careful when approaching every stopped vehicle and if the window tint is too dark, order people out of the car if he feels it's necessary but don't use the life-threatening aspects of the position he eagerly volunteered for as a defense for every police-related argument.

I appreciate your opinion, too but I would appreciate it even more if you didn't find it necessary to post everything in bold. It doesn't enhance whatever you're posting and it's another form of 'shouting'. No need. We hear you. Really, we do.

Damn you type fast, Jim!

Take care,
-Chris

Being a new member, I haven't made many posts, but this subject strikes dear to my heart so I thought I'd add my perspective on the issue.

First, let me put it in context by citing a personal experience from the other day. I got a "not wearing seat belt" summons, which in New Jersey is a citable offensive now. The reason I got this ticket was not due to a cop worried about my safety, but rather a problem in the town I work in. I work at an Army base. The base traffic tends to use a certain road to commute to/from the base that is highly populated and has a grammer school on it. The local folk have been complaining of excess traffic. In response, the police set up "seat belt check points" on this road only. Obviously, the objective is to harass the Army folk traffic into taking another path. They've issued many seat belt tickets now and apparently they intend on keeping the program up until us Army folk "get the hint."

The perspective I'm trying to introduce is that in many cases the individual cops are the center of citizen hatred when in fact the real problem is the underlying policies generated at the political level. In other words it's the local political hacks, backed by the court systems, causing problems just as much as the cops themselves.

At the root of this problem is a new business model that has been emerging in the last 20/30 years...that law enforcement is a profit-making venture now. These local towns/counties have realized that enforcing trivial traffic laws, focusing cops on this type of duty, generates income and alot of it. It would seem a good cop (in their eyes) can not only pay his own salary, but actually generate a profit for the local town coffers. One of my fellow engineers lives in a town that is only 2 square miles, yet has 22 police officers! In other words, the more cops you hire, the more income raised for the town, which enables them to hire yet more cops. All of whom the taxpayers will have to support when they retire at the ripe old age of 42.

In New Jersey, the police are out of control now. Too many. They are not interested in persuing real criminals such as thieves, rapests, murderers. And as a class of citizens, they are themselves without a doubt the largest group of criminals, and to make it worst they are organized and above the law. (ever see cops wooping it up in a bar and then drive home?). However, behind the scenes are the politicians they answer to, and behind them are the stupid soccer moms that asked for more police protection in the first place.

Be careful what you wish for...

Just my opinion.

John

Now see, I disagree with that. Anyone can die in an accident, cops included. I see stories about officers dying in traffic accidents, or fires, or what-have-you. But the fact is, a trucker probably won't be shot (or even shot at) while approaching a loading dock. Someone pobably won't try to ram their plane into a pilot for little or no reason. The reputation that the police have in this country puts them in the line of fire every hour of every day that they're working.


It's obvious that I'm in the minority here, and I hesitate to call the nice folks here "hypocrites", but...c'mon. What do you guys do for a living?



Oh, and Unit? For $50K a year, I agree, they should be a lot nicer to everyone. :D

HEY!!!
 

U ppl NEED to read. I was the one who got pulled over to the exuast, quit rubbing me name in the mud!:mad:

Look below, this is what u all posted. Then look at the very first post on here.

Next time, get your damn info straight, and yes I'm a little pist!:mad: :mad:

Still more Cops
 

Originally posted by Jeb_Bush_2000

Anyone can die in an accident, cops included.

My point is that many jobs carry a real risk of death including pilots, truckers, construction workers, etc. however, no one disputes the danger of police work, just the contention that the danger is an overiding factor that obscures all other negative aspects of police activity.

The actual numbers are these:

740,000 sworn law enforcement officers in the U.S. 130 police deaths in 1999 (latest figures available) and the majority were by firearms, used by convicted criminals. Average age of slain police officers is 38, average length of service is eight years.

This makes police deaths tragic but also rare, a tiny fraction of all active law enforcement officers are killed in the line of duty in any given year. This doesn't minimize the fact that they are in a dangerous job but it should put into perspective this knee-jerk police defense that says 'They could be killed' as if nothing else mattered and all conversation should cease once this statement has been made.

It's obvious that I'm in the minority here, and I hesitate to call the nice folks here "hypocrites", but...c'mon. What do you guys do for a living?

This got my attention.

Hypocrites? What does that mean?

If we aren't a cop we can't have opinions on police attitudes and actions? Are you serious? I'm not a teacher but I have strong opinions how the sad state of public schools and the union mentality that has helped ruin them. I'm not a politician but I have strong opinions on what politicians do. I'm not a politician either so does that make me a 'hypocrite'?

Check the dictonary definition of the word, as you've misused it here.

These groups, including police officers, have one thing in common. They derive their income from taxpayer money and that, alone, entitles anyone who pays taxes (not to mention exercises his constitutional right of free speech) to examine and offer a critical analysis of these taxpayer-supported officials.

They are not above this kind of honest examination and while most of us support our police, we also frown on the petty uses of power they sometimes exhibit and as Jacsracing pointed out, the sometimes blatant use of police power to generate income from otherwise law-abiding citizens for petty 'violations' that pose no traffic threat but guarantee town or city income.

That's undemocratic and corrosive to the community support any police organization must have to operate in a compentent manner. Not to be taken lightly.

Your support of police in general is not a minority view but casting aspersions on those who simply point out flaws and problems in the police organizations is not admirable. Stick to facts and avoid attempting to kill the messengers that hold an opinion that differs from yours. It makes a better exchange that way.

mustangman, I was talking about blwn93 being pulled over for exhuast. A few posts down from your first one he was pulled over for that reason, but there was nothing slighly illegal about his pipes. I never addressed you being pulled over at all that I know of.

I'm a hypocrite I guess. I pay a cops salary with tax money that comes out of my check. I'm no hooligan that runs around tearing it up, and people like me deter that kind of attitude in others around us. I work in fund performance that allows people to enjoy their retirement. You'll have to excuse me if I think cops could, in general, do a FAR better job of keeping people safe and secure than they currently do. Since I only have logical arguments to make, I'll leave this thread.

By the way, check out the number of convenience store clerks that were shot last year. 31,000. Perhaps all the high and mighty "cops can get shot" people in this thread would like to compare the statistics between what a convenience store clerk makes, how many of them get shot, and how many get shot when they are just minding their own business trying to pass another night of ringing people up at the register.

Two quick things:


Far more police officers are hit by cars during traffic stops than are shot, stabbed, poisoned, strangled, etc.


It's very easy to sit in front of your computer and say "It's not that dangerous a job.". Would you say the same thing if you were handed a badge, and a gun, and told to give a $300 ticket to the gangbangers in the Accord, with the mirror tint? Think hard about that.


I'm not out to get anybody here, or to make enemies. I'm really not.

hey Unit 5302, read this



There is more if u reread all this, u and elliotness

What the hell is your point???? What am I reading about? I'm not seeing anything. I have elliotness and jeb thinking I'm talking about you when I was addressing blwn93's run in. It's not that hard to see. First you must read though. Read what's there, not what you think you thought you saw. I don't even know what you're trying to do or what your objective is. Might want to be a little more clear what your point is when you post. Or is this just another attempt at more free posts?

what I'm saying, is tht from what u wrote, it sounds like u were saying I was the one pulled over for the tint, and I was wrong. I guess elliotness and jeb thought the same. I was pulled over for my exaust.

Cops, cops and more cops!
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jeb_Bush_2000


It's very easy to sit in front of your computer and say "It's not that dangerous a job.". Would you say the same thing if you were handed a badge, and a gun, and told to give a $300 ticket to the gangbangers in the Accord, with the mirror tint? Think hard about that.

Think hard about this.

I've stated over and over and over again that I respect the danger inherent in the police officers job and frankly, I'm getting tired of saying it when it's constantly ignored.

For the last time 'Jeb'; the cop waited on line to get that badge and gun and the opportunity to stop that Honda full of gangbangers, didn't he? He wants to be doing what he's doing. He likes it, in most cases. He's part of the 'fraternity' of police officers. He's 'somebody'. He didn't think he'd be arranging flowers when he became a cop, did he? I doubt it. He knew what he was getting into and wanted to do it.

The danger in being a cop is real but it doesn't excuse poor police behavior and petty applications of traffic laws to harrass people. Simple as that.

It's easy to sit at a computer and defend as well as rationalize poor policing actions when you don't have to think it through.

I'm waiting for your response to Unit 5302's statistic regarding dead convenience store clerks. Rationalize that.

No one here is your enemy, Jeb, just attempting to balance the knee-jerk response you're giving when confronted with negative aspects of how some police do their job. Think about it.

Re: Cops, cops and more cops!
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr 5 0

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeb_Bush_2000 I'm waiting for your response to Unit 5302's statistic regarding dead convenience store clerks. Rationalize that.

Unit said shot, not dead.

Cops, part 10
 

Unit said shot, not dead.

O.K., lets go there.

On average, 23,000 law enforcement officers are injured annually. Fewer cops are shot in the line of duty each year then convenience store clerks making minimum wage and they didn't volunteer for the danger. Are they heroic, too? Sure, and the fact that the clerk didn't ask to be in the line of danger from some thug makes him a lot more sympathetic, in my opinion.

Again. Poor behavior, bad attitudes and harrassment of otherwise law-abiding motorists by police officers isn't excused by the fact that police work is inherently dangerous.