Clutch problems from Atco raceway....HELP!..

RPM427 · 08-12-2002, 07:25 AM

Yesterday I went to the NMRA event at Atco raceway with a few friends. My car made the 2 hour drive fine and we all had fun. The problem happened on the return trip. There was 5 hrs of bumper to bumper traffic from the NJ turnpike, across staten Island, and onto the So State Parkway. I have never seen so much non stop traffic before in my life. Aparently my clutch didn't like the slower-then-first-gear-crawl speed for 5 hrs. I had to drive the last 5 miles or so to my house in first gear without stopping becuase the clutch will not disengage at all now. I could smell the clutch during the traffic and I knew it was wearing fast due to the constant stop and go (mostly stop).

Why does the clutch not disengage if it is worn?

Wouldn't it just slip and not transfer power if it was burned out? Someone please explain this to me.

Does it sound like I need to replace it, or is it a cable or throwout bearing problem?

I'm also going to replace the rear main seal while I'm in there. How is it installed? I have heard the term "drill out procedure" before. Is it riveted on or something?

And.. does the flywheel NEED to get resurfaced everytime the clutch is replaced? If I don't have an impact gun, any suggestions on removing it without spinning it? Do i need to support the engine in anyway while the tranny is out? Thank you. I need to fix this quick becuase I have no working car now. I am going to order a Dual Friction, throwout bearing, and maybe a flywheel depending on the responses from this post. Anything else? THANK YOU!

SlowGT · 08-12-2002, 11:17 AM

I'd resurface the flywheel if you've fried the clutch.

To keep the flywheel wheel from turning:
1) I have a neat tool that hooks on 2 teeth and has about a foot long handle. Works great. Only cost me $15. Not as handy for installation torque unless you have a helper to hold it.
-OR-
2) Ensure the torque on your harmonic balancer is right (I believe it's around 120-130#). Then just put a socket and a breaker bar on the balancer bolt and let it rest against the smog pump or anything solid. The torque on your flywheel bolts should be about 85#.

Your engine won't require any extra support while the tranny is out.

In the future, you can shift your 5spd clutchless (after you start out in 1st gear). Up and down. That'll save you any long hauls in 1st.

E-mail me if you want. I'll give you my #. I can explain a lot on the phone that probably wouldn't make any sense if I tried to type it on here.

RPM427 · 08-12-2002, 11:30 AM

Can I get that flywheel spanner type tool at pepboys or sears? I'd rather buy the correct tool for the job.

What is involved in replacing the rear main seal? Does it just unbolt or id it riveted on or something?

SlowGT · 08-12-2002, 10:35 PM

I think I picked the tool up at AutoZone. Napa should have it, too.

I had my engine on a stand checking the main & rod bearings when I replaced my main seals. I don't know whether or not it can be done without dropping the pan.

Get yourself a Haynes manual at AutoZone. They cover engine overhauls. You should be able to figure it out using their diagrams and instructions.

Rick 91GT · 08-13-2002, 06:31 AM

You can take the rear main seal out a few different ways, one I have seen and done is thread a dry wall screw into the seal on both side then pull it out. I always use a small screw driver to get under the seal and pull it out, just need to be careful so you don't scratch the crank.

To install a new seal, pul oil around the crank so you don't rip the new seal while installing, put a thin coat of Permatex around the seal and tap it in place, I use a really small flat punch to ensure it is all the way in. Don't forget you should replace the pilot bearing while it is all out as well, it is in the end of the crank. The sell pullers that make it very easy, if not you can pack the caviity with heavy grease and pack in in, eventually the grease has so much pressure against the rear of the bearing it pops out.

Not quite sure why stop and go would kill the clutch unless it wasn't disagaging.

The flywheel tool makes things much easier, never seen it at any of my local stores, Jegs carries them. Look at the SPEC line of clutches the Stage II would be fine for you, and your future mods. Flywheel has to be resurfaced $25-$30 not worth taking that chance. Son't forget to put either liquid teflon or blue loctite (which I prefer) on the flywheel bolts since they go all the way through into the oil pan, or they will leak and ruin your new clutch. Torque everything down and you will be fine.

RPM427 · 08-13-2002, 07:47 AM

Thanks for the advice. I was in traffic that was slower than my first gear. I could not release the clutch all the way otherwise I would have rear ended the person in front of me. If I waited for enough space, then someone would pull in front of me.

I ordered a centerforce dual friction and a new throwout bearing. It looks like I need to get the rear seal from Ford. I am also going to pick up the pilot bearing. I'm also getting the flywheel resurfaced. I was debating to get an aluminum flywheel but I'd rather spend the money on other things.

Rick 91GT · 08-13-2002, 08:00 AM

You can get the Fel-Pro rear seal at any local parts store same with the TOB. A Alum flywheel is not good for a NA car as you need the weight to get off the line.

RPM427 · 08-13-2002, 08:11 AM

I can't find the flywheel holder anywhere local, autozone, NAPA, pepboys, sears. Is there anyway to hold it? or stick a screwdriver somewhere to stop it from turning?

I did find the pilot bearing puller that you can use for free at Autozone through their loan a tool program.

Rick 91GT · 08-13-2002, 08:25 AM

You can use a big screw driver against the teeth and the pin in the back of the block that holds the bell housing, although the tools makes life, much, much easier when you are by yourself. I use a breaker bar to break all the fly wheel bolts loose.

SlowGT · 08-13-2002, 11:34 AM

I thought the flywheel tool was made by Lisle, but I just went to their site and couldn't find it. I'll see what kind it is when I get home and I'll let you know. Could be a K-D.

Hey Rick 91GT.

Great car. Went to Atco over the weekend. One of my buddys loves your car. Didn't know whose it was at the time, but now that I see the pictures I recognize it. He's got an almost identical engine/drivetrain setup. He's just missing the suspension and racing interior. How much does your car weigh? He's at 3590 and the best he's pulled is a 13.10 and a best MPH of 111.??? on PepBoys' specials. Would you give him some tuning hints if he called you?

Rick 91GT · 08-13-2002, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowGT
I thought the flywheel tool was made by Lisle, but I just went to their site and couldn't find it. I'll see what kind it is when I get home and I'll let you know. Could be a K-D.

Hey Rick 91GT.

Great car. Went to Atco over the weekend. One of my buddys loves your car. Didn't know whose it was at the time, but now that I see the pictures I recognize it. He's got an almost identical engine/drivetrain setup. He's just missing the suspension and racing interior. How much does your car weigh? He's at 3590 and the best he's pulled is a 13.10 and a best MPH of 111.??? on PepBoys' specials. Would you give him some tuning hints if he called you?

Thanks, sure tell him to send me a e-mail Rick91GT@onemain.com and I'll send him my phone number.

My car weighs about 3280lbs with me in it, really need to get to a better scale to make sure it is accurate. 111mph can get him a 12.20-12.30 with good traction, that's the name of the game I still need to find some...lol

Where is Stillwater, PA? I am about 30mins West of York, or about 30mins South of Carlise. If your not too far away maybe we can all meet up?

SlowGT · 08-13-2002, 01:32 PM

I'm about 1-1/2 hrs from carlisle. North on 11/15. A little far for an evening hookup, but not too far for a Fri night or saturday. My car is up at Moroso, but as soon as it's done I'd come down. Do you guys have a Friday night track down there? We've got Numidia and Beaver Springs up here. Quite a few people come to the Beaver from the Harrisburg area.

SlowGT · 08-13-2002, 09:31 PM

The tool to hold the flywheel is made by K-D. The part # is either 2270 or 2207. I looked at it when I was at the shop earlier, but now I don't recall which it was. I couldn't find a website for them. Lot's of places online sell K-D tools though.

Good luck.

08-12-2002, 07:25 AM	#1
RPM427 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Huntington NY Posts: 573	Clutch problems from Atco raceway....HELP!.. Yesterday I went to the NMRA event at Atco raceway with a few friends. My car made the 2 hour drive fine and we all had fun. The problem happened on the return trip. There was 5 hrs of bumper to bumper traffic from the NJ turnpike, across staten Island, and onto the So State Parkway. I have never seen so much non stop traffic before in my life. Aparently my clutch didn't like the slower-then-first-gear-crawl speed for 5 hrs. I had to drive the last 5 miles or so to my house in first gear without stopping becuase the clutch will not disengage at all now. I could smell the clutch during the traffic and I knew it was wearing fast due to the constant stop and go (mostly stop). Why does the clutch not disengage if it is worn? Wouldn't it just slip and not transfer power if it was burned out? Someone please explain this to me. Does it sound like I need to replace it, or is it a cable or throwout bearing problem? I'm also going to replace the rear main seal while I'm in there. How is it installed? I have heard the term "drill out procedure" before. Is it riveted on or something? And.. does the flywheel NEED to get resurfaced everytime the clutch is replaced? If I don't have an impact gun, any suggestions on removing it without spinning it? Do i need to support the engine in anyway while the tranny is out? Thank you. I need to fix this quick becuase I have no working car now. I am going to order a Dual Friction, throwout bearing, and maybe a flywheel depending on the responses from this post. Anything else? THANK YOU! __________________ -1993 Mustang, 900rwhp 03-04 cobra based 4v swap, full Griggs setup, project underway -1994 Ranger w/ 427cid windsor (daily beater) check it out! Last edited by RPM427; 08-12-2002 at 09:24 AM..

08-12-2002, 11:17 AM	#2
SlowGT Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Columbia Co, PA Posts: 303	I'd resurface the flywheel if you've fried the clutch. To keep the flywheel wheel from turning: 1) I have a neat tool that hooks on 2 teeth and has about a foot long handle. Works great. Only cost me $15. Not as handy for installation torque unless you have a helper to hold it. -OR- 2) Ensure the torque on your harmonic balancer is right (I believe it's around 120-130#). Then just put a socket and a breaker bar on the balancer bolt and let it rest against the smog pump or anything solid. The torque on your flywheel bolts should be about 85#. Your engine won't require any extra support while the tranny is out. In the future, you can shift your 5spd clutchless (after you start out in 1st gear). Up and down. That'll save you any long hauls in 1st. E-mail me if you want. I'll give you my #. I can explain a lot on the phone that probably wouldn't make any sense if I tried to type it on here. __________________ Old Slow GT New Slow GT--> under construction Latest Addition: 95 Cobra R, #73, bone stock, ~6100 miles.

08-12-2002, 11:30 AM	#3
RPM427 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Huntington NY Posts: 573	Can I get that flywheel spanner type tool at pepboys or sears? I'd rather buy the correct tool for the job. What is involved in replacing the rear main seal? Does it just unbolt or id it riveted on or something? __________________ -1993 Mustang, 900rwhp 03-04 cobra based 4v swap, full Griggs setup, project underway -1994 Ranger w/ 427cid windsor (daily beater) check it out!

08-12-2002, 10:35 PM	#4
SlowGT Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Columbia Co, PA Posts: 303	I think I picked the tool up at AutoZone. Napa should have it, too. I had my engine on a stand checking the main & rod bearings when I replaced my main seals. I don't know whether or not it can be done without dropping the pan. Get yourself a Haynes manual at AutoZone. They cover engine overhauls. You should be able to figure it out using their diagrams and instructions. __________________ Old Slow GT New Slow GT--> under construction Latest Addition: 95 Cobra R, #73, bone stock, ~6100 miles.

08-13-2002, 06:31 AM	#5
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	You can take the rear main seal out a few different ways, one I have seen and done is thread a dry wall screw into the seal on both side then pull it out. I always use a small screw driver to get under the seal and pull it out, just need to be careful so you don't scratch the crank. To install a new seal, pul oil around the crank so you don't rip the new seal while installing, put a thin coat of Permatex around the seal and tap it in place, I use a really small flat punch to ensure it is all the way in. Don't forget you should replace the pilot bearing while it is all out as well, it is in the end of the crank. The sell pullers that make it very easy, if not you can pack the caviity with heavy grease and pack in in, eventually the grease has so much pressure against the rear of the bearing it pops out. Not quite sure why stop and go would kill the clutch unless it wasn't disagaging. The flywheel tool makes things much easier, never seen it at any of my local stores, Jegs carries them. Look at the SPEC line of clutches the Stage II would be fine for you, and your future mods. Flywheel has to be resurfaced $25-$30 not worth taking that chance. Son't forget to put either liquid teflon or blue loctite (which I prefer) on the flywheel bolts since they go all the way through into the oil pan, or they will leak and ruin your new clutch. Torque everything down and you will be fine. __________________ *D/R 10108 NMRA Drag Radial, 25.5 chassis, F1R* *Check out RNH Performance Performance Engines and Custom Fabrication.* *From Mild to Wild we can build what you want, when you want it.* FOR SALE Stainless Steel Torque Box Supports

08-13-2002, 07:47 AM	#6
RPM427 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Huntington NY Posts: 573	Thanks for the advice. I was in traffic that was slower than my first gear. I could not release the clutch all the way otherwise I would have rear ended the person in front of me. If I waited for enough space, then someone would pull in front of me. I ordered a centerforce dual friction and a new throwout bearing. It looks like I need to get the rear seal from Ford. I am also going to pick up the pilot bearing. I'm also getting the flywheel resurfaced. I was debating to get an aluminum flywheel but I'd rather spend the money on other things. __________________ -1993 Mustang, 900rwhp 03-04 cobra based 4v swap, full Griggs setup, project underway -1994 Ranger w/ 427cid windsor (daily beater) check it out!

08-13-2002, 08:00 AM	#7
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	You can get the Fel-Pro rear seal at any local parts store same with the TOB. A Alum flywheel is not good for a NA car as you need the weight to get off the line. __________________ *D/R 10108 NMRA Drag Radial, 25.5 chassis, F1R* *Check out RNH Performance Performance Engines and Custom Fabrication.* *From Mild to Wild we can build what you want, when you want it.* FOR SALE Stainless Steel Torque Box Supports

08-13-2002, 08:11 AM	#8
RPM427 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Huntington NY Posts: 573	I can't find the flywheel holder anywhere local, autozone, NAPA, pepboys, sears. Is there anyway to hold it? or stick a screwdriver somewhere to stop it from turning? I did find the pilot bearing puller that you can use for free at Autozone through their loan a tool program. __________________ -1993 Mustang, 900rwhp 03-04 cobra based 4v swap, full Griggs setup, project underway -1994 Ranger w/ 427cid windsor (daily beater) check it out!

08-13-2002, 08:25 AM	#9
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	You can use a big screw driver against the teeth and the pin in the back of the block that holds the bell housing, although the tools makes life, much, much easier when you are by yourself. I use a breaker bar to break all the fly wheel bolts loose. __________________ *D/R 10108 NMRA Drag Radial, 25.5 chassis, F1R* *Check out RNH Performance Performance Engines and Custom Fabrication.* *From Mild to Wild we can build what you want, when you want it.* FOR SALE Stainless Steel Torque Box Supports

08-13-2002, 11:34 AM	#10
SlowGT Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Columbia Co, PA Posts: 303	I thought the flywheel tool was made by Lisle, but I just went to their site and couldn't find it. I'll see what kind it is when I get home and I'll let you know. Could be a K-D. Hey Rick 91GT. Great car. Went to Atco over the weekend. One of my buddys loves your car. Didn't know whose it was at the time, but now that I see the pictures I recognize it. He's got an almost identical engine/drivetrain setup. He's just missing the suspension and racing interior. How much does your car weigh? He's at 3590 and the best he's pulled is a 13.10 and a best MPH of 111.??? on PepBoys' specials. Would you give him some tuning hints if he called you? __________________ Old Slow GT New Slow GT--> under construction Latest Addition: 95 Cobra R, #73, bone stock, ~6100 miles.

08-13-2002, 01:32 PM	#12
SlowGT Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Columbia Co, PA Posts: 303	I'm about 1-1/2 hrs from carlisle. North on 11/15. A little far for an evening hookup, but not too far for a Fri night or saturday. My car is up at Moroso, but as soon as it's done I'd come down. Do you guys have a Friday night track down there? We've got Numidia and Beaver Springs up here. Quite a few people come to the Beaver from the Harrisburg area. __________________ Old Slow GT New Slow GT--> under construction Latest Addition: 95 Cobra R, #73, bone stock, ~6100 miles.

08-13-2002, 09:31 PM	#13
SlowGT Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Columbia Co, PA Posts: 303	The tool to hold the flywheel is made by K-D. The part # is either 2270 or 2207. I looked at it when I was at the shop earlier, but now I don't recall which it was. I couldn't find a website for them. Lot's of places online sell K-D tools though. Good luck. __________________ Old Slow GT New Slow GT--> under construction Latest Addition: 95 Cobra R, #73, bone stock, ~6100 miles.

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