we went to court today

mustangdani55 · 01-22-2002, 12:25 PM

We had to be in court with the boy this a.m. and it doesn't look good. No bond reduction...which is a very good thing. They have more evidence of threats and page upon page of recorded calls threatening to kill the family. Man...Is he ever done.

None of us knew the extent of this. John and I sat there in total disbelief. I think they are gonna come at him with attempted murder. After court today, it wouldn't surprise us one bit.

He needs some serious help, beyond...way beyond jail.

cya L8r guys

Mr 5 0 · 01-22-2002, 12:59 PM

Dani:

Man, this just gets worse and worse, doesn't it?

What can anyone do or say in a situation like this? You're right; he's legally screwed.

The guy obviously went waaaay off the deep end in this situation with multiple death threats and all the rest. He's clearly dangerous - at least to these people - and should stay in jail. Now we know why the high bail was imposed.

Imagine if your daughter and family were threatened like that, over and over. I'm surprised the police waited this long to move on him...probably compiling evidence - which he supplied in spades with the endless calls and such.

This sounds like a young man who wouldn't take 'no' for an answer from a woman and has some huge anger-management problems that jail won't fix - as you noted - but he'll get a psychiatric review before sentencing and this will probably be addressed by the court as part of his sentence.

I would urge you to have your boyfriend talk to the attorney handling the case and stress the son's real need for some professional pyschiatric intervention. No rational person goes to the lengths he went to over a romantic breakup.

A lot of it was probably just anger and frustration but somewhere the kid lost grip of the reality between right and wrong and this needs to taken into account, although it doesn't excuse him and he'll still do hard time, no doubt.

Keep us informed, although I don't expect much good news on this one.

Old Guy with 87 GT · 01-22-2002, 01:03 PM

well that would explain the high bail. The will probably get him some help. I doubt they'll follow through with attempted murder, but they might charge him with it so that they have room to plea and so they have justifcation for a high bail (they'll want to keep him from getting out for a while)

In my experience usually a prosecutor will initally file the more severe charges but as court proceedings go, most of the time they get dropped down. They'll probly charge him with terrorist threats, stalking and maybe a simple assult charge He probably won't be gone for years, it mostly depends on his record. They probably will do what they can to keep him till his sentencing. Once he is sentenced he might get some time unless he has a record of doing this type of thing, he probably won't do more then 6 months to a year.

They will give him a lengthy amount of probation and stipulate that he gets help to stay on probation. They'll make him get some counsling or go to anger managment classes (or something).

I don't know the specifics of the case but in my dealings with the legal system, most of the time things don't vary to far from the above.

I wish you luck and hope things work out for the best.

Mustangbelle306 · 01-22-2002, 01:23 PM

Attempted murder??? On who??

Ok so MAAAAYBE he's a little looney...did he even physically attack anyone? If he did I missed that in the first post. I hate when they try to jack up sentences to make examples of people, and are lenient on the REAL criminals...child molesters, rapists etc. I have absolutely NO faith in the court system anymore...I don't think most people do...

Good luck with it all, I'm sorry you have to go through this, but he's lucky to have someone who cares, especially when they don't "have" to

mustangdani55 · 01-22-2002, 01:39 PM

Belle: You didn't miss much sweety. Its just one huge mess.

Violation of restraining order

Criminal mischief with a motor vehicle (he tried to run her dad down with his truck)

DWI - Suspended (w/ 3 priors).

'NO BIGGIE'.

He needs help - and like you said Mr 5 0, psych help. He lost reality somewhere. We 're all so helpless, and if it were me, he would get the max. I've been there before and he deserves the max. She is literally scared to go out of the house. She's on all kinds of meds for anxiety and all that.

Then I see what Johnboy is going thru, and my heart hurts for him. He hasn't slept in 4 days, worrying.

The boy is denying the whole thing...STUPID BASTARD.

How can he deny it?

It isn't a matter of his word against theirs at this point. We heard the tapes and saw the multiple sheets of recorded stuff that they have.

Mr 5 0 · 01-22-2002, 06:21 PM

Dani/Mustangbelle/old guy:

The attempt to run down the girl's father meets the criteria for attempted murder but it's difficult to prove so yes, a lot of the charges may simply be dropped down a bit but if the family keeps the pressure on the prosecutors office (I would if it was my daughter) they may not accept a plea that gives him just six months in jail.

Aside from the obviously criminal nature of his actions (death threats, the vehicular assault, etc) many prosecutors look at these stalking and threatening attempts very seriously, as they should.

Back in the '80's, in my state (CT) an ex-husband of a women did basically the same thing. Endless threats, stalking, attempts at physical harm but the local cops just blew it off as a 'domestic disturbance' and gave the guy a warning or did nothing at all.

One fateful day, the ex came calling and beat the woman to within an inch of her life (she never fully recovered). When she made a panic call to the police, they took about 15 minutes to arrive...way too late.

Oh, they got the guy in no time and he eventually did about ten years in prison but the woman sued the town police department and the state (for not jailing the guy on other pending charges like violating a court-imposed restraining order) and for not protecting her.

She won a multi-million-dollar settlement and the state changed the laws regarding stalking, threatening, and assaulting. It was named the 'Tracy Thurman' law after the woman who was the victim of the aforementioned crime.
Now, stalking and death threats are a felony and believe me, in my state, they send you up big-time when you pull that stuff, no matter the reason.
Sad stories don't save anyone anymore.

Many other states (possibly Indiana) saw the wisdom of getting serious about men stalking and threatening women and enacted similar laws and developed similar tough attitudes about this kind of crime. This may be in play in your boyfriends sons situation.

Of course, he may very well just get a few months and some treatment...hard to say at this point.
His attorney would know more than any of us would as he's on the case and knows the local legal system. Things change from state to state.

I do know that simply denying everything is not going to get him anywhere. He needs to cop to the crimes, try to get a reduction in the charges and do a Mea Culpa in order to hope for a lighter sentence.

Playing hardball will guarantee he goes up for a long time, as prosecutors hate to go to trial but if they have to on a slam-dunk case like this, the judge usually is annoyed that everyone's time was wasted when there is no real defense, so they come down hard. Something the son should be thinking about.

Denial won't get him squat - except more trouble.

mustangdani55 · 01-23-2002, 12:06 PM

We keep finding out different things, and the more we find out, I told john last night..Dude, your son is sick. He needs help, and if you think he can deal with htis, you are dead wrong. Do him a favor, and don't try to get him out.

I did not ever think it had gone as far as it did. No, let me rephrase that...I never dreamed it could ever have escallated to the point it has gotten to. I am hurting for John, seeing him struggle with the facts, that his son is in serious trouble, and not being able to help. But he also said what he did was inexcusable and wrong, so let the punishment fit the crime.

I see him struggle and try to come to terms with this whole catastrophe.

Some things are better left alone. Sad but true.
Thanks all... L8R

mustangdani55 · 01-25-2002, 12:00 PM

No news lately, I guess John has come to the conclusion that he didn't know his son as well as he thought he did, and that freaks him out totally.
I feel bad for Johnboy

Last night he finally admitted that he hopes they don't let him out ..he is afraid the boy will actually do someone bodily harm.
That is a scary thought.

I say KEEP HIM FOREVER!!!!!

Unit 5302 · 01-26-2002, 12:39 AM

Undoubtedly the young man is a danger to society. Threating bodily harm or death is assault, but attempting to run him down with the truck might be stretched to attempted murder by using the death threats as leverage.

I am sorry to be so blunt, but I do not feel bad for "Johnboy." The trauma he must have inflicted on that girl and her family is unbelievable. The only reason he wasn't locked up a long time ago is our current society's lenience and desire to see the "good in people." I'm afraid as a whole we need to get much more agressive with these people with a LOT less tolerance and soft spots for sob stories.

It may be painful, but read Skyman's "Robbed" thread. Nobody was killed, and it was only one incident, not an ongoing threat.

I'm sorry things have gone the way they have.

silver_pilate · 01-26-2002, 11:34 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, Unit, but I believe "Johnboy" is the boy's father.

I too feel for John, Dani. It's got to be hard to see stuff like this coming from your own son. Kinda like standing at a distance and watching a stranger. I can't imagine the feeling.

I hope this all gets straightened out and that that young man gets the help that he needs. I'll pray for you guys today.

--nathan

01-22-2002, 12:25 PM	#1
mustangdani55 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana USA Posts: 334	We went to court today We had to be in court with the boy this a.m. and it doesn't look good. No bond reduction...which is a very good thing. They have more evidence of threats and page upon page of recorded calls threatening to kill the family. Man...Is he ever done. None of us knew the extent of this. John and I sat there in total disbelief. I think they are gonna come at him with attempted murder. After court today, it wouldn't surprise us one bit. He needs some serious help, beyond...way beyond jail. cya L8r guys __________________ It makes people wonder what you've been up to!

01-22-2002, 12:59 PM	#2
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Bad news Dani: Man, this just gets worse and worse, doesn't it? What can anyone do or say in a situation like this? You're right; he's legally screwed. The guy obviously went waaaay off the deep end in this situation with multiple death threats and all the rest. He's clearly dangerous - at least to these people - and should stay in jail. Now we know why the high bail was imposed. Imagine if your daughter and family were threatened like that, over and over. I'm surprised the police waited this long to move on him...probably compiling evidence - which he supplied in spades with the endless calls and such. This sounds like a young man who wouldn't take 'no' for an answer from a woman and has some huge anger-management problems that jail won't fix - as you noted - but he'll get a psychiatric review before sentencing and this will probably be addressed by the court as part of his sentence. I would urge you to have your boyfriend talk to the attorney handling the case and stress the son's real need for some professional pyschiatric intervention. No rational person goes to the lengths he went to over a romantic breakup. A lot of it was probably just anger and frustration but somewhere the kid lost grip of the reality between right and wrong and this needs to taken into account, although it doesn't excuse him and he'll still do hard time, no doubt. Keep us informed, although I don't expect much good news on this one.

01-22-2002, 01:03 PM	#3
Old Guy with 87 GT Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Harrisburg, Pennsylvania Posts: 379	well that would explain the high bail. The will probably get him some help. I doubt they'll follow through with attempted murder, but they might charge him with it so that they have room to plea and so they have justifcation for a high bail (they'll want to keep him from getting out for a while) In my experience usually a prosecutor will initally file the more severe charges but as court proceedings go, most of the time they get dropped down. They'll probly charge him with terrorist threats, stalking and maybe a simple assult charge He probably won't be gone for years, it mostly depends on his record. They probably will do what they can to keep him till his sentencing. Once he is sentenced he might get some time unless he has a record of doing this type of thing, he probably won't do more then 6 months to a year. They will give him a lengthy amount of probation and stipulate that he gets help to stay on probation. They'll make him get some counsling or go to anger managment classes (or something). I don't know the specifics of the case but in my dealings with the legal system, most of the time things don't vary to far from the above. I wish you luck and hope things work out for the best. __________________ the "not so old",old guy 87 Mustang GT T-top >hanlon t-5, pro 5.0, centerforce clutch ,adj. cable/quatrant ,3.27s ,full 2 1/2 ex(off road H) adj. reg. ,e-cam ,70mm TB, cobra intake ,1.7rr ,ported/milled e7ets w/crane springs ,306 balaced/decked short block w/speed pro forged flat top pistons ...257rwhp/302rwt best et 13.7@102 (4/11 ) '80 Capri (future project,currently collecting parts for 351 moter)

01-22-2002, 01:39 PM	#5
mustangdani55 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana USA Posts: 334	Belle: You didn't miss much sweety. Its just one huge mess. Violation of restraining order Criminal mischief with a motor vehicle (he tried to run her dad down with his truck) DWI - Suspended (w/ 3 priors). 'NO BIGGIE'. He needs help - and like you said Mr 5 0, psych help. He lost reality somewhere. We 're all so helpless, and if it were me, he would get the max. I've been there before and he deserves the max. She is literally scared to go out of the house. She's on all kinds of meds for anxiety and all that. Then I see what Johnboy is going thru, and my heart hurts for him. He hasn't slept in 4 days, worrying. The boy is denying the whole thing...STUPID BASTARD. How can he deny it? It isn't a matter of his word against theirs at this point. We heard the tapes and saw the multiple sheets of recorded stuff that they have. __________________ It makes people wonder what you've been up to!

01-22-2002, 06:21 PM	#6
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Part 2 Dani/Mustangbelle/old guy: The attempt to run down the girl's father meets the criteria for attempted murder but it's difficult to prove so yes, a lot of the charges may simply be dropped down a bit but if the family keeps the pressure on the prosecutors office (I would if it was my daughter) they may not accept a plea that gives him just six months in jail. Aside from the obviously criminal nature of his actions (death threats, the vehicular assault, etc) many prosecutors look at these stalking and threatening attempts very seriously, as they should. Back in the '80's, in my state (CT) an ex-husband of a women did basically the same thing. Endless threats, stalking, attempts at physical harm but the local cops just blew it off as a 'domestic disturbance' and gave the guy a warning or did nothing at all. One fateful day, the ex came calling and beat the woman to within an inch of her life (she never fully recovered). When she made a panic call to the police, they took about 15 minutes to arrive...way too late. Oh, they got the guy in no time and he eventually did about ten years in prison but the woman sued the town police department and the state (for not jailing the guy on other pending charges like violating a court-imposed restraining order) and for not protecting her. She won a multi-million-dollar settlement and the state changed the laws regarding stalking, threatening, and assaulting. It was named the 'Tracy Thurman' law after the woman who was the victim of the aforementioned crime. Now, stalking and death threats are a felony and believe me, in my state, they send you up big-time when you pull that stuff, no matter the reason. Sad stories don't save anyone anymore. Many other states (possibly Indiana) saw the wisdom of getting serious about men stalking and threatening women and enacted similar laws and developed similar tough attitudes about this kind of crime. This may be in play in your boyfriends sons situation. Of course, he may very well just get a few months and some treatment...hard to say at this point. His attorney would know more than any of us would as he's on the case and knows the local legal system. Things change from state to state. I do know that simply denying everything is not going to get him anywhere. He needs to cop to the crimes, try to get a reduction in the charges and do a Mea Culpa in order to hope for a lighter sentence. Playing hardball will guarantee he goes up for a long time, as prosecutors hate to go to trial but if they have to on a slam-dunk case like this, the judge usually is annoyed that everyone's time was wasted when there is no real defense, so they come down hard. Something the son should be thinking about. Denial won't get him squat - except more trouble.

01-22-2002, 01:23 PM	#4
Mustangbelle306 Yay for Chickys Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 1,532	Attempted murder??? On who?? Ok so MAAAAYBE he's a little looney...did he even physically attack anyone? If he did I missed that in the first post. I hate when they try to jack up sentences to make examples of people, and are lenient on the REAL criminals...child molesters, rapists etc. I have absolutely NO faith in the court system anymore...I don't think most people do... Good luck with it all, I'm sorry you have to go through this, but he's lucky to have someone who cares, especially when they don't "have" to

01-23-2002, 12:06 PM	#7
mustangdani55 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana USA Posts: 334	We keep finding out different things, and the more we find out, I told john last night..Dude, your son is sick. He needs help, and if you think he can deal with htis, you are dead wrong. Do him a favor, and don't try to get him out. I did not ever think it had gone as far as it did. No, let me rephrase that...I never dreamed it could ever have escallated to the point it has gotten to. I am hurting for John, seeing him struggle with the facts, that his son is in serious trouble, and not being able to help. But he also said what he did was inexcusable and wrong, so let the punishment fit the crime. I see him struggle and try to come to terms with this whole catastrophe. Some things are better left alone. Sad but true. Thanks all... L8R __________________ It makes people wonder what you've been up to!

01-25-2002, 12:00 PM	#8
mustangdani55 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana USA Posts: 334	No news lately, I guess John has come to the conclusion that he didn't know his son as well as he thought he did, and that freaks him out totally. I feel bad for Johnboy Last night he finally admitted that he hopes they don't let him out ..he is afraid the boy will actually do someone bodily harm. That is a scary thought. I say KEEP HIM FOREVER!!!!! __________________ It makes people wonder what you've been up to!

01-26-2002, 12:39 AM	#9
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Undoubtedly the young man is a danger to society. Threating bodily harm or death is assault, but attempting to run him down with the truck might be stretched to attempted murder by using the death threats as leverage. I am sorry to be so blunt, but I do not feel bad for "Johnboy." The trauma he must have inflicted on that girl and her family is unbelievable. The only reason he wasn't locked up a long time ago is our current society's lenience and desire to see the "good in people." I'm afraid as a whole we need to get much more agressive with these people with a LOT less tolerance and soft spots for sob stories. It may be painful, but read Skyman's "Robbed" thread. Nobody was killed, and it was only one incident, not an ongoing threat. I'm sorry things have gone the way they have.

01-26-2002, 11:34 AM	#10
silver_pilate DURKA DURKA!! Join Date: Sep 1997 Location: Lubbock, TX...(TX panhandle) Posts: 1,418	Correct me if I'm wrong, Unit, but I believe "Johnboy" is the boy's father. I too feel for John, Dani. It's got to be hard to see stuff like this coming from your own son. Kinda like standing at a distance and watching a stranger. I can't imagine the feeling. I hope this all gets straightened out and that that young man gets the help that he needs. I'll pray for you guys today. --nathan __________________ '91 GT, Coast 347, 9.5:1 compression, full intake, Wolverine 1087 cam, exhaust, Keith Craft ported Windsor Jr. Irons (235 cfm intake, 195 cfm exhaust), AOD, PI 3500 converter, Lentech valve body, 3.73's (4.10's in the works), and Yokohama ES100's out back. Daily Car: '04 Infiniti G35 Sedan 6MT

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