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Who else is fed up with car mag's?
Yeah, I'm talking about the Motor Trend's, Car & Driver, Road and Track, and the rest of the bunch.
I'm so tired of seeing such unbelieveable bias in their pages and articles. If it's not German or Japanese, they don't even test them. God forbid they should test a car costing under 30k, hell half the time under 40k. I swear to god they could hold a minivan comparo, and a BMW 3 series would win it because of it's incredible handling, and suburb feel while towing the trailer necessary to compete with the minivans in storage room. 9 of 10 times the cars they choose for comparing, 1-2 BMW's, a Mercedes, a Audi, a Lexus, and maybe some other freak European car they throw into the mix. Never do they compare an American car in the bunch. Not that it would matter because as everyone knows, the BMW wins anyway. You can read the comments they make about each and totally change the order in which the cars really finish. It's almost never the same as how they put it into the rankings. It just drives me nuts! Anyone else feeling the same way? Oh, it's also why I cancelled all my subscriptions a few years ago, it was getting so deep I'd need a backhoe to dig myself out. |
I agree wholeheartedly with you. Just look at the title--Car and Driver, Road and Track. That pretty much sums it up. A very specific target group is marketed and rightly so because their mags sell. Definately a 'Yuppie' market, if I were to stereotype.
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Yea you guys summed it up guess thats why you always see those mags in a doctors office
------------------ 86GT-MACcatback-89heads,intake,TB,KENNYBROWNsubs,3.73's,HURST shifter,much more to come |
?oops I screwed up, I'll try again..........
[This message has been edited by Fox Body (edited 01-19-2001).] |
Uh maybe it's b/c I'm missing something, but I've seen many different comparos in the past in Motor Trend (to me, Car & Driver and Road & Track sucks) b/t American muscle cars. I even have a few at home. For example. I've one cover article (Motor Trend) w/ comparo b/t Trans Am, Cobra, and Z28, and one with Saleen 351, Porsche 911, Viper, 3000 GT VR4, etc.
If it's the price range issue than I can kinda understand what you are talking about. But for me, it's like this. Ford Mustang is my favorite, but I don't want to be informed only about Mustangs. If I want a good magazine to read about Mustangs, it's MM&FF (best mag out there). If I want to read about other cars and the occasional stang, I'll read Motor Trend. MT is just a broader scoped mag. (Now C&D and R&T just plain suck according w/ my interests) Is there a little bias going on in MT scene? Perhaps. Well what about MM&FF? ------------------------------- '79 Mustang Coup 4" Cowl Weld wheels (15x6;15x8) Stock 5.8L C4 w/ shift kit 1.5" MAC full length headers Holley 750 CFM Edelbrock intake 2.5" Off road H-pipe Flowmasters (2 chamber) 8.8" Rear end w/ 2.73:1 gears (sucks!) Front: 225/60/15 Rear: 255/60/15 Eagle GT II Sucky Purolator air filter that's choking my car. http://www.mustangworks.com/interact...gboard/mad.gif |
Subscribed to Car and Driver for over 20 yrs and finally decided to drop it in 1998 when only about 10% of the mag had any relevance to my interests - you can only take so many BMW, Lexus and Honda road tests. These days I get 4 Mustang mags, National Dragster Hemmings and a couple of restoration mags. Steal my brothers Motor Trend and Autoweek if it looks like there is anything remotely interesting inside and there is plenty of test and data info avaliable on the net if I want the scoop on a specific car
------------------ 1965 K code coupe - numbers matching - restoration ongoing. 1987 LX notch, stock heads and intake, 3.55's and typical bolt on's 13.89@100.25 |
I agree - the mainstream car mags suck. MM&FF is definitely the best mag. They have coverage on topics for everyone. N/A, power adder, drag, road race... even 4-banger stuff for the poor people missing half an engine.
------------------ 2000GT Atlantic Blue: Cobra R Wheels-17x9 255/40/17, 17x10.5 315/35/17, tubular K-member & control arms, Tokico 5-ways, coil overs, sway bars, 70mm FMS throttle body, Saleen nose. 79 Pace Car: Maximum Motorsports full suspension, Weld Draglites, 302 w/ Edelbrock Performer intake, cam and carb, BBK equal-lengths & H-pipe, 2 chmbr flo's, 8.8 trak-loc, TCI C4 w/ 2000 rpm stall |
I am soooo sick of Car and Driver! The latest issue, they compare the Cobra-R, Viper, and Corvette. All they had to say about the Cobra-R was it was to loud inside. Well, duh, take a guess, its no family car you freakin weiners! I agree with ya on every point guys!
------------------ 1998 Mustang GT with a 4.6 liter V8, Black |
Unit 5302:
So, you finally noticed? I've subscribed to Car and Driver for years (along with MM&FF) and the euro/mega-buck bias has always been there. They don't try to hide it. They test lots of American cars and even Mustangs and Camaros, but they clearly are in love with the big-buck euro machines. So be it. I'm getting tired of all the car magazines to some degree, but if it's your interest, then you almost have to keep up and the mags help me do this. I don't expect Car and Driver to be fair to American cars but they do have some good articles that keep me subscribing, although not forever. That bias does annoy me, too. |
You guys crack me up!!! Especially this one: 98'MustangGT I am soooo sick of Car and Driver! The latest issue, they compare the Cobra-R, Viper, and Corvette. All they had to say about the Cobra-R was it was to loud inside. Well, duh, take a guess, its no family car you freakin weiners! I agree with ya on every point guys!
------------------ 1998 Mustang GT with a 4.6 liter V8, Black heehee. seriously, I think the TV show Car and Driver is much much much worse than the mag and the mag irritates me! I like Mustang Illustrated and MM&FF. Oh and my Mustang Times (MCA Newletter... it's a neat thing to read personal car stories etc.) and my ISCA newsletter is cool too. Lots of show coverage. MM&FF pissed me off before because the only 2 FunFord Carshow winners lists they didnt print were the 2 I went to!!! But hey, I still want to work for em!!! ------------------ Jodi AKA PonyGirl Red 68 GT Fastback Black 99 GT Coupe "Not your average Mustangs..." |
I agree... Especially on the latest issue. What are they doing comparing a Cobra R to a Viper and a Vette? The Vette wants to be a snotty yuppie Euro-car, the Viper wants to be a real road racing car, and the Cobra R IS a real road racing car. Its not even in the same category as the other two. That's like comparing an NHRA funnycar to it's production counterpart. They have what I like to call "Cranial-Rectal Inversion"... In laymans terms, their heads are where their other ends should be...
Jeff '85 GT |
Yeah, of course they do test a Mustang, or an F body every once and a while, but as an example take the latest Car & Driver. They test 6 sports sedans. BMW, Audi, Lexus, Mercedes Benz, Volvo, and a Saab.
The cars needed to have around 200 if not more hp, and cost 35k (hopefully) or less. No 300M, no Lincoln LS, no Catera, no American cars in the test period. That is the standard they make. If they were comparing 40k cars no American cars would have made the list. If they were comparing inexpensive sport coupe type cars it'd look like this. Integra Type R, Mitsubishi Eclipse, BMW 325, Toyota Celica GTS, Subaru 2.5RS, VW Turbo Beetle, and maybe an Audi 2.4 or whatever. The only time they compare any domestic is against other domestics. I'd like to see them treat American car's like they treat imports. If they did, who knows? Maybe the SHO would still be in the lineup, or the Probe, or any of the other domestic cars they have killed or have slated for retirement. I've noticed the trend for quite some time actually, but it's getting worse and worse. You really have to read their BS close or you may actually listen to what they say. 9 of 10 times what they say is so clouded by what they want to see that it totally covers the truth. |
Hey I thought CRI was when the nerves in your eyes got crossed with the nerves in your @ss and it just gave you a sh!tty outlook on life?
Yeah, they do have certain bias toward euro/asian stuff. Must figure it's there god given duty to try and keep the US car market from backsliding into what it was during the 70's, 80's and early 90's (Fox body and SN-95 excluded of course http://www.mustangworks.com/interact...oard/smile.gif ) Course I always get a kick out of Brock Yate's column. Seems to me though they are also on a quest to homogenize the whole car experience.IMO I like the personality of that dull broad-axe sitting in the driveway. So what if the chassis had it's roots in the late seventies. It's a damn blast to drive. Course if any of'em are looking over this site it'll probably incite them into writing about the apparent neanderthal like attributes shared by most of MW's subscribers (shuffle, shuffle, drag, drag. As I walk out the room with my nuckles dragging http://www.mustangworks.com/interact...rd/biggrin.gif ) |
Now this is a conversation I need to be in.
Ok, C&D, R&T, and all the other spiffy mags out there, listen up! I like to read about all the new car line-ups as much as the next guy, maybe more, but who gives a flyin' squirrels penis if BMW or Lexus(Toyota) has anouther freakin' econo-barge that goes around the odd curve or two? If they really want my attention, why not compare a Viper to the Nissan Skyline GTR? By the way, I'm being very sarcastic. And for the love of God, please stop making all of America this yuppie SUV wannabe Trendy heck hole!!! I am sooooo tired of hearing about some new and improved SUV. Aren't they aware that Ford and Jeep already did that some 50-60 years ago? I think it was the Bronco and the Willis? Having seen the future of the car market, I am afraid, very afriad! |
Skyline GTR, sweet!!!! I read they might import the next mutation!
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My brother is in Germany right now and so far he's driven a Skyline, some crappy BMW, and a Lancer Evol VI. I am so freaking jealous. I really want a Skyline cause not too many people know what it is. Imagine a STOCK NISSAN running low 11's on street tires. The Lancer isn't that far behind with mid to high 11's. Although, they belong on a road course or at Pike's Peak. They need to get those things over here now!! I really would concider trading in the Cobra for a Skyline. But then I would snap back into reality and drive my pretty little girl home and give her a bath. HEHE I love her!(my wife ain't that bad either)
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Do you really think they would be able to get them to pass emissions? Hell no. What about hp restrictions in some states? Nope. Some states, like MN, have a 500hp street car maximum buried in the books somewhere. Which is why the Diablo is illegal here. Is that messed up or what? Anyway, if they were imported here, we'd get a tuned down version of the car that the rest of the world gets because of all of our restictions.
I'm sure it would still be fast, but after all the crash testing, EPA approval, and modifications our DOT would require, they'd be a limited production model like the Viper because it would be too expensive for the mainstream public. Sad but true, that's why we always get screwed when it comes to the real exotic versions of cars the rest of the world enjoys. |
Hah Unit, I could sell Lambo's in MN. Matter of fact it could even come with 700 cubes of 24 cylinder fury. Put a set of 10mm t-bodies on it http://www.mustangworks.com/interact...rd/biggrin.gif Course I would also have to sell a 49 state big-bore T-body to get things back into shape! I've heard about that kind of law before but considered it dubious? Imagine being pulled over by a cop. Then the rascal pulls out a set of scales and a G-tech, weighs the car while your cuffed in the back of the squad car, pulls out after weighing it. Sets a stop watch and does the biggest freaking burnout you;ve ever seen then screams away, blasting about a halfmile down the road doing a u-turn then pulling, and walking back to where your stuffed in his car.
"Young man I'm afraid after reviewing the evidience and confirming it with this G-tech meter. We are going to have to impound your car and most likely sell it off or employ it in our drug/illegal alien interdiction program. I measured rear wheel horsepower in excess of 600 hp." http://www.mustangworks.com/interact...rd/biggrin.gif |
I am probably going to get flamed for this, but I really don't care. American car makers did it to themselves by selling $hitty cars. Now I am not calling all of the cars $hitty, but there are a good number of crappy vehicles produced by the Big Three. The thing that makes this even more sad is the fact that they have all been buying or purchasing controlling interest in a lot of different foreign car manufacturers that make superior products. Maybe GM should rebadge all Saabs as Saturns and vice-versa. Maybe Ford should ditch the Taurus for the Mondeo and give the Focus a Cosworth engine. Maybe Dodge should import the Lancer as a Colt again, but this time put the turbo 4wd car that the rest of the world got or at least give the public a turbo Neon based on the old Eclipse engine(rumor has it they might, but that was also said when the Neon first came out). I could go on and on with the comparisons with the domestic companies and the companies they acquired, but it really won't make a difference....we will still have the underpowered 2.4 liter 4 banger from GM in the Sunfire and Cavalier, the Focus will still have more power overseas, and the Neon will still be the same POS it is today.
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I love me some car mags!!!
Look at all the "American" car companies compared to the amount of foreign car companies. I'd say according to the ratio, the coverage on "American" cars is pretty good. We are outnumbered. ------------------ 1997 Cobra (Black on black), C+L 80mm MAF, K+N filter, Pro 5.0 shifter, BBK Springs, Taylor Wires, 2 Chamber Flows, ASP Pulleys, BBK off road H pipe. |
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guys numbers probably say different. |
The real problem with getting REAL cars here is not the law makers, but the American companys. If the Skyline was brought in, which there is a company in CA that does, The auto makers union would litagate and file injuntions to have it removed. Such is the fate of most cars. Like the Eclipse GS-X, an all wheel drive turbo, Ford and GM got together to have the power output reduced so that their cars would be more comparable.
The proud Mustang has even had it fair share of corprate down sizing. Why do you think we have the "wine and cheese" Cobra? Yes, it's fast, but not as fast as the new SS and WS6. It's my opinion that GM had alot to do with it. When the general public relizes the power we collectivly have, then maybe we will get the 400+ Mustang we all want and deserve. |
bigwhitecobraI think you'll find standardized crash testing, EPA restictions, and limited demand for ultra high powered exotic cars to be more than enough to keep many out of the US, regardless of what the automakers unions think.
You also seem to state that Ford and GM got together to detune the Eclipse, but GM alone has enough power to control what Ford builds? Come on now. Why doesn't GM force Ford to build motors with no more than 200hp then? Maybe GM's quality control problems are directly related to Ford filing injunctions against GM making quality products? You certainly can import the Skyline. Not a prob, but they cannot be mass marketed and released here, they need to go through all the tests and tormenting of the government nutballs. I'm not saying Ford and GM might not show up to the meetings and try to exert some pressure to keep the Skyline out, but ultimately the US government decides what comes in and what stays out. Inferno you mentioned the Cosworth engine for the Focus, well that 2.0 twin turbo has been around since 1994 in the Ford Escort overseas. The motor was incapable of passing our emissions standards at that time, let alone now. Plus that Ford Escort Cosworth XB (the single turbo predicessor to the RS) would have cost about $35,000 if it were to be mass produced and relased to the US. Also you indicate that it's bad that the domestic auto makers have begun to purchase overseas manufacturers. Mazda was in a heap of trouble when Ford eye'd them up. Jaguar and Aston Martin were practically headed for the auction blocks. Now Jaguar and Aston Martin have booming sales figures and are back as upper eschelon auto makers. How did Ford do it? They made those manufacturers focus on quality, and got them to produce solid, reliable, high performance vehicles that were no longer the butt of everyone's jokes. I'm not asking the motor mags to review a 1991 Tempo, or a 1990 Grand Am with a quad-4, or even for them to predict long term reliability. I'd just like to see a little fair play on the testing and reviewing of new cars. MiracleMax The HP law kinda works on the honor system for modified cars, but any car with over 500hp from the factory cannot be registered here in MN. |
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Also, I never said that it was bad for the Big Three to purchase all of these companies. I just said that since they have acquired these companies, they should use some of the technology in their U.S. model cars. A lot of American small cars have very little appeal because of a lack of quality when compared to other small cars which could change if the U.S. companies would use their new resources. |
I say get over it. I aint buyin any stinkin ew car that is going to be worth 10k less in a year anyway. Buy an older venerable platform and build what you want. Dont get caught up in new cars. Unless you have megabucks to toss away. I am restoring an 83, 81, and 89 Fox Mustang. 89 daily driver. 83 Fuel injected racer/cruiser. and 81 Carbed stripped down bruiser. All coupes. 83,81 with 400+hp, and 89 around 300. All for less than 30K. Paid for, and insured for less than a new car per year. 89 newly painted, an the others this spring.
You subscribe to what you like. I dont take car and driver, or home and gardens, or freakin basket weaving monthly. Cause if it doesnt involve taking an old mustang apart, keep it. Thats just me. My wife thinks I am wasting my money on MMFF too, well, she needs her mags like I do. This is America. Buy what you want, and let me do it to. You want a new Skyline? Jump on in there and get you sum!! And bring it over, I would enjoy a ride!!!!!!!!!! P.S. Wanna race? we can 1094!!!!!!!!! |
The only reason we state the engines won't pass emissions, is because it's the truth.
The 5.0 V-8 couldn't pass up coming emissions standards. Ford's top guys said the heads would need to be completely redesigned. Would you consider the development and production costs of an entirely new type of head an easy modification? Ford decided that the 5.0 would have to go, they couldn't justify keeping the pushrod motor when they had to invest about the same in it as they'd have to invest to make a Mustang specific 4.6. What would happen if Ford were to put a significantly modified Cosworth engine (with different cams to pass emissions) into the Focus here? They'd have to bump the performance of the Mustang to maintain it's performance flagships reputation. Furthermore, since Cosworth is an F-1 engine designer and manufacturer, what makes you think enough of the Cosworth engines could be supplied if a mass production run was setup for the US? I think you'd also find people a little apprehensive about spending 35k on a Focus. As far as using the technology, Ford already has all their technology. Ford has been manufacturing DOHC V-8's since the 1960's, and they are currently selling most vehicles quite well. Why fix it if it's not broken? Toyota seems to agree with Ford. Basically all they do is look at a Ford product, then figure out a way they can build something almost exactly the same, usually right down to the styling, add a couple mods and market it. Adding different technology adds expense. Adding expense to a lineup aiming at keeping decent cars price competitive is a way to force yourself right out of the market. Actually I'd say you're mostly correct if you were speaking of Chrysler, but they have their own problems dealing with an overbearing Daimler group. Anyway, what tech could Ford gain from Mazda (which Ford has no rights to), or Volvo, or Aston Martin, or Jaguar? GM would no doubt have problems doing anything with tech from SAAB. |
Unit 5302, I agree with what you are saying, I just think that there is more to the story than simple emissions testing. I personally, would love to see a real HP compitition between Ford, Chevy and the rest of the world for that matter. But concidering we live in the most conservitive country in the world, it's not likely to happen. So, for now, I'll retract my last statement, and rethink my approach.
If it ain't broke, why bother fixing it? (the 5.0 power plant) ------------------ 1989 GT- Vortech blown 306, Anderson 3" power pipe, Vortech S-Trim 14# boost, MSD-6BTM, black wrinkle finish Cobra valve covers(woohoo), world class T-5, 3.55 gears, custom sub-frame connectors, Cobra grille insert and rear valance, Saleen "whale" wing, 4 wheel disc conversion, est 1/4mile time of 10.5+/- 1994 Cobra- MAC cold air fender kit, Motorsport underdrive pulley's, MAC 21/2" off-road H pipe, SVO mufflers, 3.73 gears, E-303 cam, 13.417@101.335mph |
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