K&N conical vs. Stock air box (with paper filter)

Gautam · 07-23-2001, 08:55 AM

Hi,
Ok, we bought a K&N conical filter to replace our stock air box with the paper filter. After months of driving with it, my bro suddenly has this idea of putting the paper filter back, because he thinks the exposed K&N is sucking in hot air. I mean, wtf is wrong with him?

We also have a March ram-air scoop only (from junkyard) and made a ram-air using some ducting. I told him to put a sheild beside the K&N and with the ram-air, it should provide better breathing. But he still doesn't get it. We also have a C&L 73mm MAF and I think the K&N is better for it then the stock airbox with paper filter.

His arguement is the K&N is sucking hot 'engine bay' air and thats why it should go.

Damn it, he knows jack sh*t about cars (and stangs) and he tries to prove me wrong all the time. I wanna get my own stang but I can't afford it just yet. I can't wait till I do. He paid for 70% of the car so its technically his and I have no word in it, even though I know way more then he does. DAMN IT!

Bye!

------------------
Gautam N. Lad
http://www.cubicdesign.com
http://www.cubicdesign.com/mustang/

95mustanggt · 07-23-2001, 09:10 AM

Man, sharing a car would suck! The K&N conical is a good filter.

But it sucks more that you have to share a car

------------------
1995 Mustang GT

Smokedawg · 07-23-2001, 09:49 AM

Well,
Your brother is correct about the K&N sucking in hot air from the motor. I dont know how much this will effect the performance of your motor though. Are you currently running your ram air setup? If you are I would leave it, at least your getting some cooler air.

------------------
347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley AFPR, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 73mm Vortech MAF, 70mm TB, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC and Smog del, rear seat del.

jimberg · 07-23-2001, 10:12 AM

Yep, your brother is right about the stock air box being better than a conical K&N sucking air from underneath the hood. Not with the paper filter, though. You should get a K&N for the stock air box.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

dinomite · 07-23-2001, 12:21 PM

i'd say a stock airbox with k&n panel is the best. mustangs come with "cold air" fender induction from the factory, use it!

Gautam · 07-23-2001, 12:53 PM

Hi,
Damn, I thought you'd all say K&N just so I can show my ignorant bro. I know cooler air is better then hot air, but with the ram air + sheild, the K&N would be better at sucking in more cooler air.

Well I kept telling him to make a sheild for it, or make a cover for it, or better yet, put a pipe that puts the K&N inside the fenderwell.

Man, sharing a stang sux...what a bummer...

Bye!

------------------
Gautam N. Lad
http://www.cubicdesign.com
http://www.cubicdesign.com/mustang/

jimberg · 07-23-2001, 02:31 PM

Ram air will only make a difference in HP at high speed like 100+ mph. If the filter isn't completely enclosed from the engine compartment it is definitely sucking hot air and in that case, the stock air box is better.

If the conical filter is completely enclosed, but doesn't have significant air volume surrounding it, it would still be worse. That is to say that you can't just put the filter in a can that has the same inside diameter as the outside diameter of the larger side of the filter.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

jimberg · 07-23-2001, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gautam:
Man, sharing a stang sux...what a bummer...

Hey! Just think of all the poor folks who can't even share a 'Stang. Or worst yet...they share a Camaro.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[This message has been edited by jimberg (edited 07-23-2001).]

dinomite · 07-23-2001, 05:20 PM

if you were to make a pipe and put the conical in the fenderwall, that would be best. otherwise, just get a k&n panel, and put your stock airbox back in.

07-23-2001, 07:20 PM

I agree with you Gautam. I can't see where the stock air box is better than the conial filter. You should definitely but it in the fenderwell or atleast shield the filter from the hot air. That hot engine air can definitely cause an erratic idle and hurt performance as well. I made a 'cold air' kit with pcv pipe and it cost me less than $8. When I had the 331 installed (among the rest of the engine components) the vortech shield wouldn't fit anymore and I had a very erratic idle, I could shield the filter with my hand and it would idle better. But I can't understand how the stock box would be better, the conial lets more air in..

------------------
Rick
My 89lx(updated 7/20/2001)
My 97 Cobra

Stang Runner · 07-23-2001, 07:45 PM

I saw in a mag. stock box K&N gave it 2HP more when the car was warmed than K&N conical But when it was clod the K&N conical had like 4HP more than the Box. So they are about the same. I think it had some Box not all the way around.

[This message has been edited by Stang Runner (edited 07-23-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Stang Runner (edited 07-23-2001).]

Unit 5302 · 07-23-2001, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimberg:

Hey! Just think of all the poor folks who can't even share a 'Stang. Or worst yet...they share a Camaro.

Hey, actually, that's not a bad idea. Sharing an F-body would allow the Brand X guys some free time. They can take turns fixing major malfunctions!

Stang Runner · 07-23-2001, 08:05 PM

Hey Unit you have a good piont there

lyonsd · 07-24-2001, 08:29 AM

The K&N is only sucking in hot air when the car is standing still, like on a dyno.

I've got a K&N underhood conical filter on my Grand National. Once I hooked up a laptop with data logging software running. Once parameter you can view in real time is the air temperature sensor (located in the base of the filter before the mass air meter on a GN).

In the driveway, it read some high value that was above the outside air temperature. But as soon as I put it in gear and slowly rolled through the driveway, it dropped around 15 degrees. More when I got on the highway.

Stick with the K&N conical. The only time they get outperformed by the air-box filter is on the stationary dyno.

95mustanggt · 07-24-2001, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimberg:

Hey! Just think of all the poor folks who can't even share a 'Stang. Or worst yet...they share a Camaro.

[This message has been edited by 95mustanggt (edited 07-24-2001).]

Gautam · 07-24-2001, 10:18 AM

Hi,
What's with all the jokes about sharing? I mean, I'm a college student who's litereally putting himself through college. I barely make enough in my part-time job to get me through one year, so I can't blow my current savings on my own stang. Hopefully I can land a computer job this fall through college co-op which would probably earn me twice as what I make part-time.

I also live with my parents and our parking space is limited to 2 big cars. I would go live on my own but I can't afford to, not while I'm in college.

Now I'm not saying I'm in a tough situation, cuz Im sure some of you here have been in even tougher situations, but c'mon.

Then there is the story of convincing my dumb-headed bro to sell this stang for something better.

Plus I've noticed most topics get way outta hand and off-topic especially when someone starts off with a dumb joke, which is just stupid and does no help to the original poster. Crap, I dunno why I'm in a bad-mood today...must be the weather.

Bye!

------------------
Gautam N. Lad
http://www.cubicdesign.com
http://www.cubicdesign.com/mustang/

jimberg · 07-24-2001, 11:55 AM

An engine can only breath so much. To test this, simply pull the MAF up and disconnect it from the stock air box or the conical filter. How much HP do you think you'll gain? It's completely unrestricted at this point.

Given the options of "stock air box with paper filter" or "underhood conical K&N", the choice is obvious. "Underhood conical K&N". Given the options of "stock air box with K&N filter" or "underhood conical K&N" for a 500hp or less engine, I'd say they'd breathe equally well although the underhood would give you hotter, less dense air. It may cool off as you move, but my guess would be that the fender air is cooler, AND don't we start a race standing still?

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

Vector · 07-26-2001, 07:51 AM

I was just reading an article about building your own cold air induction system for the stock airbox using the K&N airbox filter and PVC tubing. It only costs a few dollars and you get a fender side induction system worth about 8-10 horsepower. They said this system was good for aspirating right up to 380 or so horsepower.

I know when I get my stang, that's the FIRST mod I'm going to make to it!

jimberg · 07-26-2001, 09:12 AM

Let me know if I'm wrong, but I think you are saying that HP gains from cold air kits are more because of the ridged smooth tubes that they use to replace the wavy stock rubber air tubes. Less turbulance and better velocity for the air moving into the intake.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

MonsterTrosity · 07-26-2001, 05:10 PM

If you want cold air intake, just put NOS

. Kidding. Well, you can still do that. In my experience, stock cold air intake systems with a stock K&N replacement is best. I've tried both, and I prefer that method. It also doesn't take much more to redirect some of the airflow from the front right air damn to acheive a forced air setup. I've done this with a stock CRX, and it made about 10hp gain, and that is alot in a litle car like that. Can't say the same for a 3k pound car.

------------------
MonsterTrosity

07-23-2001, 08:55 AM	#1
Gautam Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Brampton, ON, Canada Posts: 298	K&N conical vs. Stock air box (with paper filter) Hi, Ok, we bought a K&N conical filter to replace our stock air box with the paper filter. After months of driving with it, my bro suddenly has this idea of putting the paper filter back, because he thinks the exposed K&N is sucking in hot air. I mean, wtf is wrong with him? We also have a March ram-air scoop only (from junkyard) and made a ram-air using some ducting. I told him to put a sheild beside the K&N and with the ram-air, it should provide better breathing. But he still doesn't get it. We also have a C&L 73mm MAF and I think the K&N is better for it then the stock airbox with paper filter. His arguement is the K&N is sucking hot 'engine bay' air and thats why it should go. Damn it, he knows jack sh*t about cars (and stangs) and he tries to prove me wrong all the time. I wanna get my own stang but I can't afford it just yet. I can't wait till I do. He paid for 70% of the car so its technically his and I have no word in it, even though I know way more then he does. DAMN IT! Bye! ------------------ Gautam N. Lad http://www.cubicdesign.com http://www.cubicdesign.com/mustang/

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07-23-2001, 09:10 AM	#2
95mustanggt Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Kamloops, BC Posts: 2,875	Man, sharing a car would suck! The K&N conical is a good filter. But it sucks more that you have to share a car ------------------ 1995 Mustang GT

07-23-2001, 09:49 AM	#3
Smokedawg Tires Fear Me... Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 867	Well, Your brother is correct about the K&N sucking in hot air from the motor. I dont know how much this will effect the performance of your motor though. Are you currently running your ram air setup? If you are I would leave it, at least your getting some cooler air. ------------------ 347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley AFPR, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 73mm Vortech MAF, 70mm TB, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC and Smog del, rear seat del.

07-23-2001, 10:12 AM	#4
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Yep, your brother is right about the stock air box being better than a conical K&N sucking air from underneath the hood. Not with the paper filter, though. You should get a K&N for the stock air box. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

07-23-2001, 12:21 PM	#5
dinomite The Dude Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1,262	i'd say a stock airbox with k&n panel is the best. mustangs come with "cold air" fender induction from the factory, use it!

07-23-2001, 12:53 PM	#6
Gautam Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Brampton, ON, Canada Posts: 298	Hi, Damn, I thought you'd all say K&N just so I can show my ignorant bro. I know cooler air is better then hot air, but with the ram air + sheild, the K&N would be better at sucking in more cooler air. Well I kept telling him to make a sheild for it, or make a cover for it, or better yet, put a pipe that puts the K&N inside the fenderwell. Man, sharing a stang sux...what a bummer... Bye! ------------------ Gautam N. Lad http://www.cubicdesign.com http://www.cubicdesign.com/mustang/

07-23-2001, 02:31 PM	#7
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Ram air will only make a difference in HP at high speed like 100+ mph. If the filter isn't completely enclosed from the engine compartment it is definitely sucking hot air and in that case, the stock air box is better. If the conical filter is completely enclosed, but doesn't have significant air volume surrounding it, it would still be worse. That is to say that you can't just put the filter in a can that has the same inside diameter as the outside diameter of the larger side of the filter. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

07-23-2001, 05:20 PM	#9
dinomite The Dude Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1,262	if you were to make a pipe and put the conical in the fenderwall, that would be best. otherwise, just get a k&n panel, and put your stock airbox back in.

07-23-2001, 07:20 PM	#10
rbatson Guest Posts: n/a	I agree with you Gautam. I can't see where the stock air box is better than the conial filter. You should definitely but it in the fenderwell or atleast shield the filter from the hot air. That hot engine air can definitely cause an erratic idle and hurt performance as well. I made a 'cold air' kit with pcv pipe and it cost me less than $8. When I had the 331 installed (among the rest of the engine components) the vortech shield wouldn't fit anymore and I had a very erratic idle, I could shield the filter with my hand and it would idle better. But I can't understand how the stock box would be better, the conial lets more air in.. ------------------ Rick My 89lx(updated 7/20/2001) My 97 Cobra

07-23-2001, 07:45 PM	#11
Stang Runner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Walker, MI, USA Posts: 1,202	I saw in a mag. stock box K&N gave it 2HP more when the car was warmed than K&N conical But when it was clod the K&N conical had like 4HP more than the Box. So they are about the same. I think it had some Box not all the way around. [This message has been edited by Stang Runner (edited 07-23-2001).] [This message has been edited by Stang Runner (edited 07-23-2001).]

07-23-2001, 08:05 PM	#13
Stang Runner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Walker, MI, USA Posts: 1,202	Hey Unit you have a good piont there

07-24-2001, 08:29 AM	#14
lyonsd Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Flowery Branch, GA Posts: 236	The K&N is only sucking in hot air when the car is standing still, like on a dyno. I've got a K&N underhood conical filter on my Grand National. Once I hooked up a laptop with data logging software running. Once parameter you can view in real time is the air temperature sensor (located in the base of the filter before the mass air meter on a GN). In the driveway, it read some high value that was above the outside air temperature. But as soon as I put it in gear and slowly rolled through the driveway, it dropped around 15 degrees. More when I got on the highway. Stick with the K&N conical. The only time they get outperformed by the air-box filter is on the stationary dyno.

07-24-2001, 10:18 AM	#16
Gautam Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Brampton, ON, Canada Posts: 298	Hi, What's with all the jokes about sharing? I mean, I'm a college student who's litereally putting himself through college. I barely make enough in my part-time job to get me through one year, so I can't blow my current savings on my own stang. Hopefully I can land a computer job this fall through college co-op which would probably earn me twice as what I make part-time. I also live with my parents and our parking space is limited to 2 big cars. I would go live on my own but I can't afford to, not while I'm in college. Now I'm not saying I'm in a tough situation, cuz Im sure some of you here have been in even tougher situations, but c'mon. Then there is the story of convincing my dumb-headed bro to sell this stang for something better. Plus I've noticed most topics get way outta hand and off-topic especially when someone starts off with a dumb joke, which is just stupid and does no help to the original poster. Crap, I dunno why I'm in a bad-mood today...must be the weather. Bye! ------------------ Gautam N. Lad http://www.cubicdesign.com http://www.cubicdesign.com/mustang/

07-24-2001, 11:55 AM	#17
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	An engine can only breath so much. To test this, simply pull the MAF up and disconnect it from the stock air box or the conical filter. How much HP do you think you'll gain? It's completely unrestricted at this point. Given the options of "stock air box with paper filter" or "underhood conical K&N", the choice is obvious. "Underhood conical K&N". Given the options of "stock air box with K&N filter" or "underhood conical K&N" for a 500hp or less engine, I'd say they'd breathe equally well although the underhood would give you hotter, less dense air. It may cool off as you move, but my guess would be that the fender air is cooler, AND don't we start a race standing still? ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

07-26-2001, 07:51 AM	#18
Vector Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Comox, BC, Canada Posts: 119	I was just reading an article about building your own cold air induction system for the stock airbox using the K&N airbox filter and PVC tubing. It only costs a few dollars and you get a fender side induction system worth about 8-10 horsepower. They said this system was good for aspirating right up to 380 or so horsepower. I know when I get my stang, that's the FIRST mod I'm going to make to it!

07-26-2001, 09:12 AM	#19
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Let me know if I'm wrong, but I think you are saying that HP gains from cold air kits are more because of the ridged smooth tubes that they use to replace the wavy stock rubber air tubes. Less turbulance and better velocity for the air moving into the intake. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

07-26-2001, 05:10 PM	#20
MonsterTrosity Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Fremont, Ca. Posts: 48	If you want cold air intake, just put NOS . Kidding. Well, you can still do that. In my experience, stock cold air intake systems with a stock K&N replacement is best. I've tried both, and I prefer that method. It also doesn't take much more to redirect some of the airflow from the front right air damn to acheive a forced air setup. I've done this with a stock CRX, and it made about 10hp gain, and that is alot in a litle car like that. Can't say the same for a 3k pound car. ------------------ MonsterTrosity