Aftercooler Solve Detonation Problems?

SleeperGT · 12-06-2002, 09:39 PM

Will an aftercooler solve my detonation issues? When I had my "base" Vortech S-Trim V-2 installed with a mild chip setting I had an occassion "ping", depending on the weather or the gas I purchased (really not a big deal as it was very rare and more gas quality related). My latest upgrades (Anderson PowerPipe, Lightning MAS, and Diablo Chip tuned for SC and new upgrades) have really created a fairly serious detonation issue. I know this is all a tuning issue, however here is my dilema. I have yet to find a tuner "genius" in my town (Jacksvonville, FL), resulting in my having to get mailorder and not perfectly tuned chips for my car. I know the dyno tune is CRITICAL, but I don't think it's going to happen in my lifetime, at least not in Jax, FL. Plus I've even heard of folks who get the custom tune and still have detonation problems. So even if I haul my butt say 7 hours to Johnson Motor Sports in Alabama, I can't be schlepping back and forth to retune the chip each time I ping. So, if I get an aftercooler for my car (and I do realize I will need my chip retuned for it, though it will end up being a mailorder "averagely" tuned chip), will the aftercooler elliminate the detonation completely? I mean I want to NEVER have any detonation, EVER. I am willing to invest the $$$ to protect my car from detonation, provided it's a guaranteed fix. Anyone have any experience with this type of situation before, installing an aftercooler to solve the detonation issue?
THANKS!

Murdock · 12-07-2002, 12:22 AM

I have a few questions:

What octane gas are you running?

What is your base fuel pressure?

What is your fuel pressure under boost?

What is your base timing?

What is your total advanced timing?

Does it ping at low boost or high boost?

I am trying to figure out if you are running a little lean or maybe to much advance. I would also suggest something like a PMS in the future. Issue like this could be avoided.

The Deuce · 12-07-2002, 05:11 AM

You may want to grab a steeda or upr (uprpoducts.com) timing adjuster. That way you can manually retard yourself out of the detonation until you can get a custom chip.

SleeperGT · 12-07-2002, 08:26 AM

Oh man, the hard core questions....I gotta reveal that I'm just an armchair (at best) mechanic. I'll answer the questions that I can first. I always run premium gas (91 Octane). I have put racing fuel in the car and the detonation goes completely away (2 gallons of 103 octane, mixed with half a tank of gas and the detonation goes completely away for about another 3 tank ups of regular 91 octane). I do not have a fuel gauge or boost gauge, however I am going to assume the detonaton only occurs under high boost as it is only under hard accelleration and at the higher rpms (4000 rpms and higher, and typically in 3rd or 4th gears). The first chip I had I know I was running rich because I could smell the unburned fuel and I confirmed this by putting it on a dyno. However that is neither here nor there because I am now running on my second chip so I have a much different program. I still think I am running a bit rich because I can smell unburned fuel (however I know I could be wrong on this). I do not know my fuel pressure or boost levels figures, as I don't have these gauges, I've sunk my money into the motor, rather than gauges, however it defintely sounds like I better make this investment now. I do not know my cars timing settings, however I think I can find this out from my shop. Murdock, if this lets you comment further on my situation please go ahead. Deuce, I'll check out the webpage you gave. Thanks for your input!

SleeperGT · 12-07-2002, 08:31 AM

Murdock - One more quick thing, what's a PMS? Thanks.

Eric4Nitrous · 12-07-2002, 09:08 AM

Quote:

What's a PMS?

If you have a wife or g/f it makes your life a living hell

SleeperGT · 12-07-2002, 11:25 AM

I knew I'd get a smarty pants response on that question....and I am VERY aware of that type of PMS.

chico · 12-07-2002, 12:45 PM

Run to your nearest dyno and get a custom chip..by someone who knows what they are doing..properly tuned you will not get detonation if your f/a is set and fulel pressure is 35 psi. An aftcl will help , but is not the answer to your detonation...I blew a motor on a mail order chip!

Murdock · 12-07-2002, 06:17 PM

I think you are running to much advance under boost. What is happening is when your on 91 octane only, the increased cylinder pressure (caused by boost) is causing the fuel to have a faster burn time. If you add timing advance to this situation you would be getting pre-ignition/detonation. The reason it goes away with a higher octane is because high octane fuel will burn slower so you are not getting pre-ignition. I would not suggest the timing adjuster for the soul fact if you retarded the timing 4 degrees to help with detonation at the top end you are also taking timing out from the bottom end. The best way to control timing with boost is with a boost timing retard box such as the MSD. You want to be able to run 14-16 degrees timing at low RPM and retard with high RPM. Remember you are running a centrifugal blower that needs to build boost.

A PMS is a piggyback system for your PCM from Anderson Ford. It lets you adjust the fuel and timing on NA or Blown applications.

Murdock

SleeperGT · 12-07-2002, 07:13 PM

Murdock - Wow, too much good information. Thanks!! I'll be working with my shop on this info.

Chico - I know you're right, I'll probably be heading off to Johnson Motor Sports for a dyno tune.

Thanks!

12-06-2002, 09:39 PM	#1
SleeperGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL Posts: 122	Aftercooler Solve Detonation Problems? Will an aftercooler solve my detonation issues? When I had my "base" Vortech S-Trim V-2 installed with a mild chip setting I had an occassion "ping", depending on the weather or the gas I purchased (really not a big deal as it was very rare and more gas quality related). My latest upgrades (Anderson PowerPipe, Lightning MAS, and Diablo Chip tuned for SC and new upgrades) have really created a fairly serious detonation issue. I know this is all a tuning issue, however here is my dilema. I have yet to find a tuner "genius" in my town (Jacksvonville, FL), resulting in my having to get mailorder and not perfectly tuned chips for my car. I know the dyno tune is CRITICAL, but I don't think it's going to happen in my lifetime, at least not in Jax, FL. Plus I've even heard of folks who get the custom tune and still have detonation problems. So even if I haul my butt say 7 hours to Johnson Motor Sports in Alabama, I can't be schlepping back and forth to retune the chip each time I ping. So, if I get an aftercooler for my car (and I do realize I will need my chip retuned for it, though it will end up being a mailorder "averagely" tuned chip), will the aftercooler elliminate the detonation completely? I mean I want to NEVER have any detonation, EVER. I am willing to invest the $$$ to protect my car from detonation, provided it's a guaranteed fix. Anyone have any experience with this type of situation before, installing an aftercooler to solve the detonation issue? THANKS! __________________ '00 GT 5-spd Vortech S-Trim 3.1" Pulley Paxton Air-to-Air Aftercooler 90 mm MAS 42 lb injectors Cobra Fuel Pump 70 mm AccuFab Throttlebody C & L Intake Plenum 2 1/2" X-pipes Anderson PowerPipe MagnaFlow Mufflers Diablo Custom Chip 3.73's Steeda Lower Control Arms 358 rwhp (Mustang Dyno) New Track Times Coming Soon

12-07-2002, 12:22 AM	#2
Murdock Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 100	I have a few questions: What octane gas are you running? What is your base fuel pressure? What is your fuel pressure under boost? What is your base timing? What is your total advanced timing? Does it ping at low boost or high boost? I am trying to figure out if you are running a little lean or maybe to much advance. I would also suggest something like a PMS in the future. Issue like this could be avoided. __________________ LARZRACECARS larzracecars.com

12-07-2002, 05:11 AM	#3
The Deuce Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 2,325	You may want to grab a steeda or upr (uprpoducts.com) timing adjuster. That way you can manually retard yourself out of the detonation until you can get a custom chip. __________________ 1997 Mustang GT "The Freak" - 13.80 @ 101.70, 2.07 60' 1995 Honda VFR750 - not much @ really fast (actual data pending.) 1964.5 Mustang 289 Rice Haters Club Member #13

12-07-2002, 08:26 AM	#4
SleeperGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL Posts: 122	Oh man, the hard core questions....I gotta reveal that I'm just an armchair (at best) mechanic. I'll answer the questions that I can first. I always run premium gas (91 Octane). I have put racing fuel in the car and the detonation goes completely away (2 gallons of 103 octane, mixed with half a tank of gas and the detonation goes completely away for about another 3 tank ups of regular 91 octane). I do not have a fuel gauge or boost gauge, however I am going to assume the detonaton only occurs under high boost as it is only under hard accelleration and at the higher rpms (4000 rpms and higher, and typically in 3rd or 4th gears). The first chip I had I know I was running rich because I could smell the unburned fuel and I confirmed this by putting it on a dyno. However that is neither here nor there because I am now running on my second chip so I have a much different program. I still think I am running a bit rich because I can smell unburned fuel (however I know I could be wrong on this). I do not know my fuel pressure or boost levels figures, as I don't have these gauges, I've sunk my money into the motor, rather than gauges, however it defintely sounds like I better make this investment now. I do not know my cars timing settings, however I think I can find this out from my shop. Murdock, if this lets you comment further on my situation please go ahead. Deuce, I'll check out the webpage you gave. Thanks for your input! __________________ '00 GT 5-spd Vortech S-Trim 3.1" Pulley Paxton Air-to-Air Aftercooler 90 mm MAS 42 lb injectors Cobra Fuel Pump 70 mm AccuFab Throttlebody C & L Intake Plenum 2 1/2" X-pipes Anderson PowerPipe MagnaFlow Mufflers Diablo Custom Chip 3.73's Steeda Lower Control Arms 358 rwhp (Mustang Dyno) New Track Times Coming Soon

12-07-2002, 08:31 AM	#5
SleeperGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL Posts: 122	Murdock - One more quick thing, what's a PMS? Thanks. __________________ '00 GT 5-spd Vortech S-Trim 3.1" Pulley Paxton Air-to-Air Aftercooler 90 mm MAS 42 lb injectors Cobra Fuel Pump 70 mm AccuFab Throttlebody C & L Intake Plenum 2 1/2" X-pipes Anderson PowerPipe MagnaFlow Mufflers Diablo Custom Chip 3.73's Steeda Lower Control Arms 358 rwhp (Mustang Dyno) New Track Times Coming Soon

12-07-2002, 11:25 AM	#7
SleeperGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL Posts: 122	I knew I'd get a smarty pants response on that question....and I am VERY aware of that type of PMS. __________________ '00 GT 5-spd Vortech S-Trim 3.1" Pulley Paxton Air-to-Air Aftercooler 90 mm MAS 42 lb injectors Cobra Fuel Pump 70 mm AccuFab Throttlebody C & L Intake Plenum 2 1/2" X-pipes Anderson PowerPipe MagnaFlow Mufflers Diablo Custom Chip 3.73's Steeda Lower Control Arms 358 rwhp (Mustang Dyno) New Track Times Coming Soon

12-07-2002, 12:45 PM	#8
chico Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Manteca,Ca. Posts: 114	Run to your nearest dyno and get a custom chip..by someone who knows what they are doing..properly tuned you will not get detonation if your f/a is set and fulel pressure is 35 psi. An aftcl will help , but is not the answer to your detonation...I blew a motor on a mail order chip! __________________ 98 cobra convt. 515 rwhp 421 torque..554 rwhp on 98 octane..635 rwhp this summer

12-07-2002, 06:17 PM	#9
Murdock Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 100	I think you are running to much advance under boost. What is happening is when your on 91 octane only, the increased cylinder pressure (caused by boost) is causing the fuel to have a faster burn time. If you add timing advance to this situation you would be getting pre-ignition/detonation. The reason it goes away with a higher octane is because high octane fuel will burn slower so you are not getting pre-ignition. I would not suggest the timing adjuster for the soul fact if you retarded the timing 4 degrees to help with detonation at the top end you are also taking timing out from the bottom end. The best way to control timing with boost is with a boost timing retard box such as the MSD. You want to be able to run 14-16 degrees timing at low RPM and retard with high RPM. Remember you are running a centrifugal blower that needs to build boost. A PMS is a piggyback system for your PCM from Anderson Ford. It lets you adjust the fuel and timing on NA or Blown applications. Murdock __________________ LARZRACECARS larzracecars.com

12-07-2002, 07:13 PM	#10
SleeperGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL Posts: 122	Murdock - Wow, too much good information. Thanks!! I'll be working with my shop on this info. Chico - I know you're right, I'll probably be heading off to Johnson Motor Sports for a dyno tune. Thanks! __________________ '00 GT 5-spd Vortech S-Trim 3.1" Pulley Paxton Air-to-Air Aftercooler 90 mm MAS 42 lb injectors Cobra Fuel Pump 70 mm AccuFab Throttlebody C & L Intake Plenum 2 1/2" X-pipes Anderson PowerPipe MagnaFlow Mufflers Diablo Custom Chip 3.73's Steeda Lower Control Arms 358 rwhp (Mustang Dyno) New Track Times Coming Soon

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