Computer chip and ET's

DaTank · 03-31-2003, 08:19 PM

Alright, I need some help. I am in an arguement about how much horse power a computer chip can add to a mustang or any car for that matter. I am not a mechanic by any means, but my theory is a chip can add some horse power, but if you don't have the engine component upgrades to handle the changes the computer wants to make, it won't make much of an increase HP. So if I had a stock 5.0 mustang and changed only the chip, how much could that, theoretically, decrease my ET time.
One more theory I have on that. It would be like changing my computer modem to a 56K (like a chip in a car) but when I sign on it only runs a 33.5 or so, because it only has the capabilities to run at that speed do to the ISP components (like a stock engine and not an upgraded engine).
Am I making any sense or am I way off. My nephew is telling me that his friends stock WRX turbo could knock off a full second by changing the exhaust and computer chip only. I felt that was a lot for just those mods.

What do you think?
Thanks,
Brad

04-01-2003, 08:43 PM

Well you really can't compare Mustangs to turbo WRXs. You would not benefit much at all, if any, from installing an aftermarket chip on a stock 5.0. I'd imagine some type of custom chip for a stock WRX would give much greater results than a chip in a stock 5.0. As for a full second...probably not. If the chip could bump the boost up some or get rid of a stock restriction or something along those lines...than .5 sec. to 1 sec. might not be too far off...

Technick · 04-01-2003, 11:02 PM

A stock 5.0 will pick up about 22-25 H.P with a Superchips brand chip, depending on the year 5.0. I know this to be true because I used to be distributor of theirs and we did back to back dyno test with and without chip on a stock 93 5.0 just to see if the claims were correct. They seem to be within about 10% plus or minus of claimed depending on car.
On a Power Stroke Turbo/Diesel the chip alone can be good for 50-90 ft/lbs torque! This may be the case to a lesser extent on the WRX if the computer controls the wastegate. This allowes the turbo to build more boost and the computer adds more fuel to off-set the increase in boost pressure, let alone timming changes.
So it MAY be possible for the WRX to see that kind of increase in performance.

88workcar · 04-02-2003, 07:41 AM

Ant time I get the little punks talking about "All I/He has to do is" and I/he'll run 9s" My reply is always, well do it. DO IT DAMMIT, DO IT. DO IT and come see me after, come on DO IT. This usally stoppes the bull.

I did beat a corvettet with a 350 in it. He talked crap about a 454. I told him that he better do it if he wanted some of me again. 3months later he showed up with it in there and I beat him again, and he was too stupid to know that it was because he was spinning too bad. So the 350 went back in and now it's a show car instead.

lx mike · 04-02-2003, 11:39 AM

Quote:

A stock 5.0 will pick up about 22-25 H.P with a Superchips brand chip

I bet i could pick up 10-15 hp on a stock 5.0 and for free only takes a lil time.

1. bumb timing from stock setting of 8-10 to 13-14
2. remove air silencer

Dark_5.0 · 04-02-2003, 01:50 PM

I dont know how much HP my superchip added but I can tell you my car runs better with it in there.

This may be due to my car being speed density.

Technick · 04-03-2003, 11:14 PM

lx mike: You can only get so much H.P. for "free" and then you have to start paying to get more. If you add the Superchip after those free mods (which DO work) then you get that much more of a improvement from base. And I would consider the timming change and air silencer mods as the first basic mods to do and the car is still just a STOCK 5.0. You have not yet really added anything but H.P. No bolt on's in other words. The same can be said for synthetic fluids in the engine, trans, and rear diff. It will help H.P. and the car is still considered STOCK. It all boils down to the same thing, the eternal search for more H.P.

Stang_ROTY · 04-04-2003, 10:02 AM

THis is an interesting question. I'm running 12's on the stock computer. I often wonder how much I can pick up by going with a chip from JMS. I KNOW it has to do something because my computer is thinking the car has got a stock 302 in it, with small injectors, less spark, and less fuel delivery. I wonder if I could pick up a half a second by getting the proper chip from either JMS or Superchips, or Diablo??

red82gt · 04-04-2003, 02:39 PM

Advancing the timing and adding a chip is not a good idea. The chip basically changes the rate of advance and the amount of total advance. A typical A9L computer adds 20*of advance so if you add 6* to your base timing (10* to 16*) and add 20* of advance you'll have 36*. Most computer chips state to use the stock timing of 10* because they change the total advance to about 24*, add that to 16* and you've got 40* which is outside the tuning window for a small block ford and you'll have detonation, there is no knock sensor in the ford system so the computer will not go to a leeser table.
The chip will help with the fuel curve but the timing change from the chip can be done by a turn of the distributor on a ford.

DaTank · 04-05-2003, 12:52 AM

Ya, red82gt, I read one time advancing the timing was the about the same as putting in a chip. So, they said to not bother buying one.
Brad

lx mike · 04-05-2003, 08:00 PM

I heard one time that you can do almost same thing a chip does with a timing light and a adjustable regulator.

Technick · 04-05-2003, 08:58 PM

A chip that is "tuned" right is ALWAYS better than just bumping the timming and changing the fuel pressure with a adjustable regulator. Here is why: When you make a timming change at the dist. you are making a "global" change. In other words the timming change is the same regardless of engine load, rpm, temp, throttle position ect. The same for the fuel pressure change. With a properly, (emphasis on PROPERLY) tuned chip, the fuel and timming curve can be customized for the right A/F ratio and timming for most engine operating conditions. So the engine is optimized for a particular condition instead of having the same "tune" regardless of what is happining with the engine. Now your generic chips for STOCK applications do not usually get this technical. A rule of thumb is, the more info the chip maker wants from you about your car the better the chip is. So if all you need to give them is Year, Make, Model then the chip will have marginal effect. If they want: Gear Ratio, Cam specs, Compression, Trans, Intake Manifold, T-body size, fuel injedctor size, MAF size, ect ect ect...... then chances are you will get a much better result from the chip. Oh yeah, it will cost more.

macx · 04-06-2003, 06:29 PM

That chips basically provide more timing advance is true,
and on EEC_IV they can provide more fuel at WOT.

Adding fuel pressure really doesn't accomplish anything
because the computer compensates with narrow pulse
width to maintain air fuel ratio during part throttle, and
per www.fordchip.com, the computer looks at the last
part throttle learned info to base it's WOT on.

Check out the fordchip site - they were recommended
by more than one very knowledgeble tuner/builder
as the best.

Don't forget, adding timing then requires 93 fuel
instead of the 87. That's where a significant part
of the extra power comes from is the extra advance
which requires the higher octane fuel.

Good luck!

Murdock · 04-07-2003, 10:07 AM

I would like to add to Technick's list of "rules of thumb" that if a tuner can guarantee better fuel mileage usually they are a little too conservative on the tune.

Making global changes to the car is not really the correct way to tune for performance. If you bump the fuel pressure and up the timing you are going to see a performance improvement at WOT but in most cases the idle and PT suffer...some may experience bucking do to adaptive control.

The largest increase I have seen from a basically stock 5.0 with exhaust and a MAF sensor was 32hp @ 20ft.tq. forced in open loop.

I am currently talking to Superchip's on a chip for my Eclipse GST.

88workcar · 04-07-2003, 08:53 PM

My GOD I missed this one by a mile, Oh well. sorry

03-31-2003, 08:19 PM	#1
DaTank Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: washington state Posts: 78	Computer chip and ET's Alright, I need some help. I am in an arguement about how much horse power a computer chip can add to a mustang or any car for that matter. I am not a mechanic by any means, but my theory is a chip can add some horse power, but if you don't have the engine component upgrades to handle the changes the computer wants to make, it won't make much of an increase HP. So if I had a stock 5.0 mustang and changed only the chip, how much could that, theoretically, decrease my ET time. One more theory I have on that. It would be like changing my computer modem to a 56K (like a chip in a car) but when I sign on it only runs a 33.5 or so, because it only has the capabilities to run at that speed do to the ISP components (like a stock engine and not an upgraded engine). Am I making any sense or am I way off. My nephew is telling me that his friends stock WRX turbo could knock off a full second by changing the exhaust and computer chip only. I felt that was a lot for just those mods. What do you think? Thanks, Brad __________________ 1991 Mustang GT Conv. K&N air filter, Cobra manifold, 65mm TB, Adjustable fuel pressure regulator, 180 thermo., Mac headers, High flow H-pipe, Force II W/2 chamber Flowmaster, Hurst Shifter, 3.55 gears, subframes

04-01-2003, 08:43 PM	#2
Simi Stang Guest Posts: n/a	chips Well you really can't compare Mustangs to turbo WRXs. You would not benefit much at all, if any, from installing an aftermarket chip on a stock 5.0. I'd imagine some type of custom chip for a stock WRX would give much greater results than a chip in a stock 5.0. As for a full second...probably not. If the chip could bump the boost up some or get rid of a stock restriction or something along those lines...than .5 sec. to 1 sec. might not be too far off...

04-01-2003, 11:02 PM	#3
Technick Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, Wa. Posts: 175	A stock 5.0 will pick up about 22-25 H.P with a Superchips brand chip, depending on the year 5.0. I know this to be true because I used to be distributor of theirs and we did back to back dyno test with and without chip on a stock 93 5.0 just to see if the claims were correct. They seem to be within about 10% plus or minus of claimed depending on car. On a Power Stroke Turbo/Diesel the chip alone can be good for 50-90 ft/lbs torque! This may be the case to a lesser extent on the WRX if the computer controls the wastegate. This allowes the turbo to build more boost and the computer adds more fuel to off-set the increase in boost pressure, let alone timming changes. So it MAY be possible for the WRX to see that kind of increase in performance. __________________ No matter how much you spend, or how much you prepare, there is ALWAYS someone else faster or quicker than YOU!!!!!!!!!!

04-02-2003, 07:41 AM	#4
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	Ant time I get the little punks talking about "All I/He has to do is" and I/he'll run 9s" My reply is always, well do it. DO IT DAMMIT, DO IT. DO IT and come see me after, come on DO IT. This usally stoppes the bull. I did beat a corvettet with a 350 in it. He talked crap about a 454. I told him that he better do it if he wanted some of me again. 3months later he showed up with it in there and I beat him again, and he was too stupid to know that it was because he was spinning too bad. So the 350 went back in and now it's a show car instead. __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

04-02-2003, 01:50 PM	#6
Dark_5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Staging lane Posts: 4,337	I dont know how much HP my superchip added but I can tell you my car runs better with it in there. This may be due to my car being speed density. __________________ 92' LX-Big brakes, Lots and lots of suspension, GT40X heads, Ported cobra intake, stock cam, Vortech SC trim. 00' Lightning-Stock 88'CRX-13 second ego killer

04-03-2003, 11:14 PM	#7
Technick Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, Wa. Posts: 175	lx mike: You can only get so much H.P. for "free" and then you have to start paying to get more. If you add the Superchip after those free mods (which DO work) then you get that much more of a improvement from base. And I would consider the timming change and air silencer mods as the first basic mods to do and the car is still just a STOCK 5.0. You have not yet really added anything but H.P. No bolt on's in other words. The same can be said for synthetic fluids in the engine, trans, and rear diff. It will help H.P. and the car is still considered STOCK. It all boils down to the same thing, the eternal search for more H.P. __________________ No matter how much you spend, or how much you prepare, there is ALWAYS someone else faster or quicker than YOU!!!!!!!!!!

04-04-2003, 10:02 AM	#8
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	THis is an interesting question. I'm running 12's on the stock computer. I often wonder how much I can pick up by going with a chip from JMS. I KNOW it has to do something because my computer is thinking the car has got a stock 302 in it, with small injectors, less spark, and less fuel delivery. I wonder if I could pick up a half a second by getting the proper chip from either JMS or Superchips, or Diablo?? __________________ Red 1993 GT Street Machine Best E.T. - 12.41/Best MPH = 108 Engine is a 1969 351 block w/393 stroker kit. Dynamic Roller Myte C4, 8 pt cage. Edlebrock Performer heads and Victor Jr. EFI, FRPP 30lb injectors & Cartech fuel system. MSD ignition. Sothside Machine bars & Sub-frames, adj. upper's, 3.73's, Koni rear shocks, much more

04-04-2003, 02:39 PM	#9
red82gt Sober voice of Reason Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Kelowna, B.C., Canada Posts: 1,514	Advancing the timing and adding a chip is not a good idea. The chip basically changes the rate of advance and the amount of total advance. A typical A9L computer adds 20of advance so if you add 6 to your base timing (10* to 16) and add 20 of advance you'll have 36. Most computer chips state to use the stock timing of 10 because they change the total advance to about 24, add that to 16 and you've got 40* which is outside the tuning window for a small block ford and you'll have detonation, there is no knock sensor in the ford system so the computer will not go to a leeser table. The chip will help with the fuel curve but the timing change from the chip can be done by a turn of the distributor on a ford. __________________ 393W: AFR 205's, hydraulic roller, TKO600.

04-05-2003, 12:52 AM	#10
DaTank Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: washington state Posts: 78	Ya, red82gt, I read one time advancing the timing was the about the same as putting in a chip. So, they said to not bother buying one. Brad __________________ 1991 Mustang GT Conv. K&N air filter, Cobra manifold, 65mm TB, Adjustable fuel pressure regulator, 180 thermo., Mac headers, High flow H-pipe, Force II W/2 chamber Flowmaster, Hurst Shifter, 3.55 gears, subframes

04-05-2003, 08:00 PM	#11
lx mike Undescribable Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Ft Myers Fla Posts: 1,539	I heard one time that you can do almost same thing a chip does with a timing light and a adjustable regulator. __________________ Rice Haters Club Member #101

04-05-2003, 08:58 PM	#12
Technick Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, Wa. Posts: 175	A chip that is "tuned" right is ALWAYS better than just bumping the timming and changing the fuel pressure with a adjustable regulator. Here is why: When you make a timming change at the dist. you are making a "global" change. In other words the timming change is the same regardless of engine load, rpm, temp, throttle position ect. The same for the fuel pressure change. With a properly, (emphasis on PROPERLY) tuned chip, the fuel and timming curve can be customized for the right A/F ratio and timming for most engine operating conditions. So the engine is optimized for a particular condition instead of having the same "tune" regardless of what is happining with the engine. Now your generic chips for STOCK applications do not usually get this technical. A rule of thumb is, the more info the chip maker wants from you about your car the better the chip is. So if all you need to give them is Year, Make, Model then the chip will have marginal effect. If they want: Gear Ratio, Cam specs, Compression, Trans, Intake Manifold, T-body size, fuel injedctor size, MAF size, ect ect ect...... then chances are you will get a much better result from the chip. Oh yeah, it will cost more. __________________ No matter how much you spend, or how much you prepare, there is ALWAYS someone else faster or quicker than YOU!!!!!!!!!!

04-06-2003, 06:29 PM	#13
macx Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Gordonville MO USA Posts: 448	Try This Site That chips basically provide more timing advance is true, and on EEC_IV they can provide more fuel at WOT. Adding fuel pressure really doesn't accomplish anything because the computer compensates with narrow pulse width to maintain air fuel ratio during part throttle, and per www.fordchip.com, the computer looks at the last part throttle learned info to base it's WOT on. Check out the fordchip site - they were recommended by more than one very knowledgeble tuner/builder as the best. Don't forget, adding timing then requires 93 fuel instead of the 87. That's where a significant part of the extra power comes from is the extra advance which requires the higher octane fuel. Good luck!

04-07-2003, 10:07 AM	#14
Murdock Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 100	I would like to add to Technick's list of "rules of thumb" that if a tuner can guarantee better fuel mileage usually they are a little too conservative on the tune. Making global changes to the car is not really the correct way to tune for performance. If you bump the fuel pressure and up the timing you are going to see a performance improvement at WOT but in most cases the idle and PT suffer...some may experience bucking do to adaptive control. The largest increase I have seen from a basically stock 5.0 with exhaust and a MAF sensor was 32hp @ 20ft.tq. forced in open loop. I am currently talking to Superchip's on a chip for my Eclipse GST. __________________ LARZRACECARS larzracecars.com

04-07-2003, 08:53 PM	#15
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	My GOD I missed this one by a mile, Oh well. sorry __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.