The Great Debate

[Mustang92]

Like most have said it depends on the situation. The only reason in my opinion to lose the 5 speed is for consistancy down the track. A 5 speed is only as consistant as the driver and can compete with an automatic. I can make a handful of passes on any given night at the local track and be within a couple hundreths of every run, however there is always that one run when you miss a gear and in an elimination round that is when an auto is better.

For a street racing car to say you need an auto doesn't make much sense, on the street consistancy doesn't mean anything power does and auto use more power.

At the Atlanta FFW I lost the semi final round due to a missed shift and would have been in the finals if not. So I have been looking into an automatic for my car just for the FFW racing series but the 5 speed will always have a home in my car in heads up racing.

Bill

[GITY UUP]

I bought the auto because it was the only Stang on the lot in the color that I wanted and I got a great deal on the car. The auto in my car just feels sloppy. I put a B&M shift kit in it and it helped a little bit, but in hindsight, I'm sorry I didn't get the 5 speed. Maybe next time. I would recommend the 5 speed to anyone who is in the market for a Stang.

[Isamu29]

Originally posted by Rice Hunter
Isamu29,
Hey, umm, you may laugh at me, but I'm not quite sure what double clutching is. I have a vague idea, but could you clear that up for me?

Haha, I have been beating the ricers with what I was taught. Maybe I could adjust to a more efficient way to shift. If you could do a quick instruction, I'd appreciate it! Oh yeah, I like manual. As was said, way too much fun to give up.

Yup i agree with that heh most civics can be beat bad cuz most people DONT KNOW HOW TO DRIVE CLUTCHES, or turbo there civics before they can drive them.... recently 2 rich boys that go to a private school down the street from me died in civic crash cuz they forgot the most important thing about a car...... tuning suspension and wide tires on a car that weighs so little.... couldnt control car and fliped it.... Double clutching is when you press clutch to floor pull stick into neutral let clutch about half way out and depress it quickly agian while accelerating to give gears a changce to slow down while shifting so you get smooth consistant and much more powerfull shifts..... it also saves your gear box...... and makes ure engine HAPPY as BOB BONDRANT says.... if you want to learn more I recomend buying his book www.bondurant.com under accesories and apprarel or a book called Secrets of Solo Racing subtile Expert Techniques for autocrossing and time trials by henry a. watts. Lots of good stuff in both books will seriously improve your shift times and quarter mile and autocrossing times.......

Isamu

I WOULD RACE MY CAR BUT ALL I COULD AFFORD WAS A SHITTY V6 LX MUSTANG...... IF ONLY SOUNDSYSTEMS IMPOROVED HP

[Rice Hunter]

Hey thanks! I'll check that stuff out as soon as my boss leaves ! I wouldn't mind being about to shift a little better!

[SLOW 97]

Like GITY UUP said, I wanted a 5-speed to and would only buy a car that had one but when I saw my car for the first time last year and drove it I ended up buying it even though it was an auto. I used to think autos were real slow but not really. Also autos are quite a bit more durable and you don't have to worry about worn or blown clutches that inevitably occur. Some times I wish I had the stick just for kicks though. Manual tranny's are so much more fun to drive.

[blue00gt]

I love the manual because it is the only way to go for the twisties. An auto car with the same driver could never keep up unless the auto tranny can rev-match on downshifts.

[Isamu29]

Originally posted by Rice Hunter
Hey thanks! I'll check that stuff out as soon as my boss leaves ! I wouldn't mind being about to shift a little better!

Yeah no prob... at first I thought u were being really sarcastic like some of the poeple have been here.... but u werent so its all good. Good luck and for autocrossing you really should only use manual anywaz unless you want ure auto fluid to foam out heh but all it means is that ure having lots of fun.... but like the last guy to post said unless you have a programable auto tranny id like to see autos match downshifts of manual for curves.... oh well itll probably be done with the way autos are changing. heh but well anyone can drive in a strait line some poeple just shift faster and others just have a more souped car...... OH and Rice Hunter I dont laugh at anyone cuz im the bigest moron when it comes to technical stuff on cars..... ive always concentrated more on smooth up and downshifting and quick curves......

Oh and somthing to think about you can waste your money on your making your car superfast or training yourself.... investing in yourself is always better cuz anyone can make a car fast but being quick is more important.....

Thanks agian

Isamu

[Rice Hunter]

Nah, sarcasm is over-rated. The more sarcastic you are, the more people are less likely to believe you when you are telling the truth. I really do appreciate the help! I get a kick out of this forum, (kinda keeps me from working too hard ). Someday I would like to get into one of those high performance driving schools. That would be such a rush, and would make me a better driver. I agree. You can get any chump in a suped up car, but it's another thing to drive it well!

[wade73]

From a purist standpoint, the only way to go is a stick in any performance car, be it a Mustang or BMW...I spend more time playing on the curves than the straights in mine. Donuts are alot more fun as well

I just dont think that an auto has a place in any racing application, even drag racing. I am not saying it doesnt take skill to run an automatic down the 1320, but lets face it: once you get to know your car, the track, and know what your car will do in the environmental conditions its in, it really isn't too difficult to powerbrake it to a certain rpm, then floor it when tree lights green. all you have to do is keep the nose of the car pointed straight. a five speed is much harder to master in a racing situation, thus more rewarding when you do it right.

the plus side is that manual is cheaper to work on if you break it. it saps less power. the downside is in traffic, and the day i feel so lazy i dont want to shift so i ride around in 2nd and 3rd gear all day long

[98SteedaGT]

Not sure where all this Auto bashing is coming from... but, you five speed people aren't above automatics... and yes they do have a place in drag racing, I don't care how fast you are, a human being can not shift as fast or accurately as a machine... As far as the curves go, I don't have any problems leaving puny 5spds in the dust..... You just have to have money to make the auto run fast, which isn't a problem for me....

[wade73]

since when is having an opinion different than yours considered bashing?? i was in no way bashing automatics, and it has nothing to do with money. i just said it takes more skill to drive a 5 speed well in a racing situation (any situation for that matter), rather than having a computer decide for you. with the exception of a turbocharged car (you dont have to wait for the backpressure to spool the turbo as long - ALOT less lag), a person that is skilled in a manual will beat an automatic everytime, hands down....with the possible exception of the guy that has the blue stang with the massive hood on it

but if you really want to start "bashing" with smart@$$ comments, be my guest. all it does is reek of immaturity. one would think these forums was a place for likeminded individuals to discuss/debate topics regarding something we all love... apparently, anyone who has a different opinion from someone else is flaming/bashing/whatever

[Turbo99GT]

I don't believe Wade73 was bashing at all. I agree with the comments regarding a manual being more fun and it requiring more skill to drive in racing applications. I went with the automatic because I new it was much stronger from the factory and I'm not a good stick driver. I wonder how many T-45s and clutches the turbo would have destroyed by now. The technology has changed quite a bit with automatics causing them to use less power than before to work. Must of the powerloss happens as a result of an unlocked converter. Most computer controlled automatics, including the 4R70W, can apply a percentage of lockup clutch causing less slip and more power to the ground. Torque multiplication is another story. Remember, it's easy driving a manual when you are making decent power, but try it with 500-600+ rwhp. If you don't kill yourself first, your trapspeeds will be awesome but the ET will be lousy unles you spend a ton of time at the track.

[Snakeman]

if your battery is dead, you can still (or at least you used to be able to) push start the car and be on your merry way if you have a manual tranny...

try push starting an auto...


I prefer a manual transmission, personally!

[SLOW 97]

Actually, you can push start an auto. It's tricky but my dad and I did it on this POS truck my grandpa had. As far as fun goes, shift your auto manually, it's not as fun but as for as durability and consistentcy goes autos are best.

[GaryDawg]

I had a '97 V6 coupe (auto) before my current GT (manual)... I loved that car but I was always putting my hand down to shift... I told myself next time it was going to be a V8 and a manual. Now I have that V8 that's a five speed and I enjoy it much more. It feels way more "sporty" but.... I will admit... I have missed a shift when street racing and it is really embarrassing!

I love being able to run at higher RPMs if I want to... (lot's of times I will cruise by the competition at around 3000 - 3500 rpms just so I am sure they can hear me and for them to know that I'm ready to jump...!)