Headers

MY PRIZE · 02-02-2001, 02:50 PM

I'm thinking about putting some headers on 00 mustang, anyone out there done this yet to a 2k 4.6 2v car? If so how difficult was
it? Secondly, does anyone have a recommendation for a particular brand and a part number for same?
Car's in the shop this weekend for a gear change, would like to do this next weekend....

Finally, I talked to a guy by the name of Tom at Precision dyno yesterday about doing some tuning, he tells me that the 00 mustangs are only making about 230 RWHP, and aside from installing a blower or Nitrous, if you want to go fast get a LS-1 camaro (300-305 RWHP). When I bouht my Saleen I was told they made 285 RWHP, did I misunderstand something here??
Anyone got a comment on this? I didn't tell him but this but I hate Camaros........

txs in advance 00-525

Hammer · 02-02-2001, 03:24 PM

Do you have a standard GT or a Saleen?
If you have a Saleen, which model do you have?

A standard 2000 GT puts out around 260hp at the crank, take out about 15% drivetrain loss, and you're looking at around 220-230 hp at the rear wheels.

All auto makers take their hp numbers from the crank, not at the wheels.

Stock vs. stock, an LS1 usually tends to run .3 to .4 seconds faster in the quarter mile than a base GT

A stock Saleen S281 puts out 285 at the crank and expect about 245-250 at the wheels.
With the weight difference, you should run about even with a stock LS1...

------------------
"The Yellowjacket"
1998 Mustang GT
13.97@103
"Hey, you weren't supposed to be that fast!"- Turbo Eclipse Driver

cravnpup · 02-02-2001, 06:25 PM

I would reccommmend BBK LT's with matching H-pipe. Just got to www.bbkperformance.com for the P/N. The install is a ***** so you might as well do the long tubes for some good power. The 00 Saleens usually dyno around 240 rwhp, and with the LT's you should be pushing about 255 rwhp, not quite LS1 territory, but a lot closer than stock...

------------------
2000 GT Conv. 5speed
Triple Black
Current Mods: K&N, Mobile 1, MagnaPack Cat-Back, Steeda Tri-Ax, GW Subframes, 3.73's.
ET: 14.26@98.9 (K&N, Mobile1, Tri-ax)

Ares · 02-02-2001, 06:26 PM

Short tube headers from Ford and JBA(list$600 P/N1625-1, list$748 P/N 1625-1JS silver ceramic)

Long Tube headers from BBK, MAC both of course require short h-pipes. Personlly I am going to use the BBK long tube header Jet-Hot coated($500, P/N15410 and short h-pipe with cats($300 P/N 1538) from Brothers Performance to complete my exhaust. Local shop told me about 2 days to install long tube headers. It all depends on how much you want to pay and if your staying street or strip. I race alot so long tubes for me.

------------------
2000 GT Laser red-5speed
MAC Cold-air Induction
MAC 2 1/2" cat back exhuast
275/50-15 Drag T/A's used at track
Best Quarter mile run to date: 13.50@99.97 (1.87 60')

EXAM1999 · 02-02-2001, 07:16 PM

You definitely have some good choices for different types of headers. The only problem is the labor. Unless you plan to do it yourself, it's going to cost over $800 from start to finish for just a few hp when you are N/A. The book time for shorties is 10 hours and I never looked at what it was for longtubes. I put in a D&D tubular K-member and installed Mac Longtubes in 8 hours which is less than it is to install shorties or longtubes with the stock K-member.

------------------
99 Silver GT
4R70W, ProTorque TC(3200), Transgo, FMS Cooler, Synth. ATF & 3.73 gears
Mac L/T, Cat-H, Borla Cat-back
V2 S-trim, AFR p/p, 70mm t/body, Pro-M80, 42# inj., 255lph pump, JMS chip
D&D K, A-arms, Coil-overs, KB Super Subs, Mac Adj. UCA/LCA, MM C/C Plates

97snakedriver · 02-02-2001, 08:28 PM

It took 7 hours to get my FRRP headers and X-pipe on. It depends on what else you've done on how much good headers will do ya. But they ARE worthwhile NA, and very worthwhile blown. Like everything else, make a plan and a budget, then go by it.

------------------
AIM: Some97Snake

For sale: K&N Aircharger kit and Recharger kit

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=551794654

cravnpup · 02-03-2001, 12:34 PM

If you take it to a shop for the install. I would suggest that you settle on a price before you actually do the install.

I was quoted $350 for a complete long tube install, and I think that's probably the best deal I'm going to find around here...

MY PRIZE · 02-05-2001, 01:20 PM

Thanks guys for all the inputs, sorry it tiik so long to get back to but had some computer problems that took me off ine for the weekend.

Yes I have a 2000 Saleen S281 non-super chargedwith the upgraded Recaro high back seats. It's a great car and I enjoy just cruising around in it. But as we all know cruising cool, but every now and then you need to kick it in the a-- I just thought it would be a little faster than it is. However, since putting the mac flowchamber on it seems to run better and probably bumped the HP up 10-15 HP.
I was supposed to get my 410 gear in this weekend but my friend had to go out of town, so we've rescheduled same for next weekend.
I've been reading about superchargers and Nitous, and thought the nitrous set up would be something different (everyone around is running blowers) I just don't know enough about it to make a decsion. Anyone recommend some good tech articles?
Someone told me to run a 100-150 HP system with a 20# bottle vise a 10# bottle. Comments?
I think the nitrous may be better for me being as I'm going with 410 gears vise something smaller (355-373), with a blower you need a little less gear to allow the blower boost to develop (not sure).
Secondly, doesn't a centrifugal type blower generate a lot of heat vise a roots type blower, and also I heard that it takes about 75 HP to spin a centrifugal blowers.........

MY PRIZE · 02-05-2001, 01:22 PM

Thanks guys for all the inputs, sorry it took so long to get back to but had some computer problems that took me off line for the weekend.
Yes I have a 2000 Saleen S281 non-super charged with the upgraded Recaro high back seats. It's a great car and I enjoy just cruising around in it. But as we all know cruising cool, but every now and then you need to kick it in the a-- I just thought it would be a little faster than it is. However, since putting the mac prochamber on it seems to run better and probably bumped the HP up 10-15 HP.
I was supposed to get my 410 gear in this weekend but my friend had to go out of town, so we've rescheduled same for next weekend.
I've been reading about superchargers and Nitrous, and thought the nitrous set up would be something different (everyone around is running blowers) I just don't know enough about it to make a decsion. Anyone recommend some good tech articles?
Someone told me to run a 100-150 HP system with a 20# bottle vise a 10# bottle. Comments?
I think the nitrous may be better for me being as I'm going with 410 gears vise something smaller (355-373), with a blower you need a little less gear to allow the blower boost to develop (not sure).
Secondly, doesn't a centrifugal type blower generate a lot of heat vise a roots type blower, and also I heard that it takes about 75 HP to spin a centrifugal blower.........

cravnpup · 02-05-2001, 02:49 PM

Ok, let me be the first to advise against Nitrous. I know there will be pleanty of people here who will argue with me, but I have heard too many horror stories about blowing the Intakes on our cars, due to fuel buildup in the intake. That said, I would recommend a centrifugal supercharger, aka Vortech, Paxton, ATI. They build boost as the rpms rise, so having a HIGHER gear is beneficial because your rpms will rise faster, and you will get into boost earlier. I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but I have only heard of race blowers requiring that much power to spin... 75hp is a bit high for a street setup. Also, the screw type superchargers generate just as much, if not more, heat than the centrifuge type...

Hope this is helpful..

------------------
2000 GT Conv. 5speed
Triple Black
Current Mods: K&N, Mobile 1, MagnaPack Cat-Back, Steeda Tri-Ax, GW Subframes, 3.73's.
ET: 14.26@98.9 (K&N, Mobile1, Tri-ax)

Hammer · 02-05-2001, 03:08 PM

You were right cravnpup, there are those that would disagree about the use of nitrous...

In my opinion ANY type of forced induction increases wear on the engine. Supercharger, nitrous, or other...
The key is in the tuning and the amount of boost\shot you are going to use.
You hear of all these nitrous horror stories because you get many folks who don't know too much about cars strapping on a 200 shot on an engine with a stock bottom end.
(I've seen a lot of ricers with nitrous "issues" at the track...)

The key word hear is detonation....
avoid it like the plague, as it will eat your engine for lunch.
Keep your engine running well and use high (93) octane fuels and you should be fine for a small hit of giggle gas.
To be honest, in my opinion a well tuned 4.6 should be able to handle a responsible dry 75 shot now and again.

I am a convert of dry shot systems on near stock cars, while they don't produce the hp numbers that wet kits do, they're a heck of a lot safer for your engine.

------------------
"The Yellowjacket"
1998 Mustang GT
13.97@103
"Hey, you weren't supposed to be that fast!"- Turbo Eclipse Driver

02-02-2001, 02:50 PM	#1
MY PRIZE Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: HAMPTON Posts: 13	Headers I'm thinking about putting some headers on 00 mustang, anyone out there done this yet to a 2k 4.6 2v car? If so how difficult was it? Secondly, does anyone have a recommendation for a particular brand and a part number for same? Car's in the shop this weekend for a gear change, would like to do this next weekend.... Finally, I talked to a guy by the name of Tom at Precision dyno yesterday about doing some tuning, he tells me that the 00 mustangs are only making about 230 RWHP, and aside from installing a blower or Nitrous, if you want to go fast get a LS-1 camaro (300-305 RWHP). When I bouht my Saleen I was told they made 285 RWHP, did I misunderstand something here?? Anyone got a comment on this? I didn't tell him but this but I hate Camaros........ txs in advance 00-525

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02-02-2001, 03:24 PM	#2
Hammer AKA "Dr. Evil" Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: South Fork Ranch Posts: 1,721	Do you have a standard GT or a Saleen? If you have a Saleen, which model do you have? A standard 2000 GT puts out around 260hp at the crank, take out about 15% drivetrain loss, and you're looking at around 220-230 hp at the rear wheels. All auto makers take their hp numbers from the crank, not at the wheels. Stock vs. stock, an LS1 usually tends to run .3 to .4 seconds faster in the quarter mile than a base GT A stock Saleen S281 puts out 285 at the crank and expect about 245-250 at the wheels. With the weight difference, you should run about even with a stock LS1... ------------------ "The Yellowjacket" 1998 Mustang GT 13.97@103 "Hey, you weren't supposed to be that fast!"- Turbo Eclipse Driver

02-02-2001, 06:25 PM	#3
cravnpup Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Torrington, CT, USA Posts: 145	I would reccommmend BBK LT's with matching H-pipe. Just got to www.bbkperformance.com for the P/N. The install is a ***** so you might as well do the long tubes for some good power. The 00 Saleens usually dyno around 240 rwhp, and with the LT's you should be pushing about 255 rwhp, not quite LS1 territory, but a lot closer than stock... ------------------ 2000 GT Conv. 5speed Triple Black Current Mods: K&N, Mobile 1, MagnaPack Cat-Back, Steeda Tri-Ax, GW Subframes, 3.73's. ET: 14.26@98.9 (K&N, Mobile1, Tri-ax)

02-02-2001, 06:26 PM	#4
Ares Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Saxonburg, PA, USA Posts: 236	Short tube headers from Ford and JBA(list$600 P/N1625-1, list$748 P/N 1625-1JS silver ceramic) Long Tube headers from BBK, MAC both of course require short h-pipes. Personlly I am going to use the BBK long tube header Jet-Hot coated($500, P/N15410 and short h-pipe with cats($300 P/N 1538) from Brothers Performance to complete my exhaust. Local shop told me about 2 days to install long tube headers. It all depends on how much you want to pay and if your staying street or strip. I race alot so long tubes for me. ------------------ 2000 GT Laser red-5speed MAC Cold-air Induction MAC 2 1/2" cat back exhuast 275/50-15 Drag T/A's used at track Best Quarter mile run to date: 13.50@99.97 (1.87 60')

02-02-2001, 07:16 PM	#5
EXAM1999 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Oakdale, NY, US Posts: 50	You definitely have some good choices for different types of headers. The only problem is the labor. Unless you plan to do it yourself, it's going to cost over $800 from start to finish for just a few hp when you are N/A. The book time for shorties is 10 hours and I never looked at what it was for longtubes. I put in a D&D tubular K-member and installed Mac Longtubes in 8 hours which is less than it is to install shorties or longtubes with the stock K-member. ------------------ 99 Silver GT 4R70W, ProTorque TC(3200), Transgo, FMS Cooler, Synth. ATF & 3.73 gears Mac L/T, Cat-H, Borla Cat-back V2 S-trim, AFR p/p, 70mm t/body, Pro-M80, 42# inj., 255lph pump, JMS chip D&D K, A-arms, Coil-overs, KB Super Subs, Mac Adj. UCA/LCA, MM C/C Plates

02-02-2001, 08:28 PM	#6
97snakedriver Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Blacksburg, VA Posts: 1,526	It took 7 hours to get my FRRP headers and X-pipe on. It depends on what else you've done on how much good headers will do ya. But they ARE worthwhile NA, and very worthwhile blown. Like everything else, make a plan and a budget, then go by it. ------------------ AIM: Some97Snake For sale: K&N Aircharger kit and Recharger kit http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=551794654

02-03-2001, 12:34 PM	#7
cravnpup Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Torrington, CT, USA Posts: 145	If you take it to a shop for the install. I would suggest that you settle on a price before you actually do the install. I was quoted $350 for a complete long tube install, and I think that's probably the best deal I'm going to find around here...

02-05-2001, 01:20 PM	#8
MY PRIZE Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: HAMPTON Posts: 13	Thanks guys for all the inputs, sorry it tiik so long to get back to but had some computer problems that took me off ine for the weekend. Yes I have a 2000 Saleen S281 non-super chargedwith the upgraded Recaro high back seats. It's a great car and I enjoy just cruising around in it. But as we all know cruising cool, but every now and then you need to kick it in the a-- I just thought it would be a little faster than it is. However, since putting the mac flowchamber on it seems to run better and probably bumped the HP up 10-15 HP. I was supposed to get my 410 gear in this weekend but my friend had to go out of town, so we've rescheduled same for next weekend. I've been reading about superchargers and Nitous, and thought the nitrous set up would be something different (everyone around is running blowers) I just don't know enough about it to make a decsion. Anyone recommend some good tech articles? Someone told me to run a 100-150 HP system with a 20# bottle vise a 10# bottle. Comments? I think the nitrous may be better for me being as I'm going with 410 gears vise something smaller (355-373), with a blower you need a little less gear to allow the blower boost to develop (not sure). Secondly, doesn't a centrifugal type blower generate a lot of heat vise a roots type blower, and also I heard that it takes about 75 HP to spin a centrifugal blowers.........

02-05-2001, 01:22 PM	#9
MY PRIZE Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: HAMPTON Posts: 13	Thanks guys for all the inputs, sorry it took so long to get back to but had some computer problems that took me off line for the weekend. Yes I have a 2000 Saleen S281 non-super charged with the upgraded Recaro high back seats. It's a great car and I enjoy just cruising around in it. But as we all know cruising cool, but every now and then you need to kick it in the a-- I just thought it would be a little faster than it is. However, since putting the mac prochamber on it seems to run better and probably bumped the HP up 10-15 HP. I was supposed to get my 410 gear in this weekend but my friend had to go out of town, so we've rescheduled same for next weekend. I've been reading about superchargers and Nitrous, and thought the nitrous set up would be something different (everyone around is running blowers) I just don't know enough about it to make a decsion. Anyone recommend some good tech articles? Someone told me to run a 100-150 HP system with a 20# bottle vise a 10# bottle. Comments? I think the nitrous may be better for me being as I'm going with 410 gears vise something smaller (355-373), with a blower you need a little less gear to allow the blower boost to develop (not sure). Secondly, doesn't a centrifugal type blower generate a lot of heat vise a roots type blower, and also I heard that it takes about 75 HP to spin a centrifugal blower.........

02-05-2001, 02:49 PM	#10
cravnpup Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Torrington, CT, USA Posts: 145	Ok, let me be the first to advise against Nitrous. I know there will be pleanty of people here who will argue with me, but I have heard too many horror stories about blowing the Intakes on our cars, due to fuel buildup in the intake. That said, I would recommend a centrifugal supercharger, aka Vortech, Paxton, ATI. They build boost as the rpms rise, so having a HIGHER gear is beneficial because your rpms will rise faster, and you will get into boost earlier. I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but I have only heard of race blowers requiring that much power to spin... 75hp is a bit high for a street setup. Also, the screw type superchargers generate just as much, if not more, heat than the centrifuge type... Hope this is helpful.. ------------------ 2000 GT Conv. 5speed Triple Black Current Mods: K&N, Mobile 1, MagnaPack Cat-Back, Steeda Tri-Ax, GW Subframes, 3.73's. ET: 14.26@98.9 (K&N, Mobile1, Tri-ax)

02-05-2001, 03:08 PM	#11
Hammer AKA "Dr. Evil" Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: South Fork Ranch Posts: 1,721	You were right cravnpup, there are those that would disagree about the use of nitrous... In my opinion ANY type of forced induction increases wear on the engine. Supercharger, nitrous, or other... The key is in the tuning and the amount of boost\shot you are going to use. You hear of all these nitrous horror stories because you get many folks who don't know too much about cars strapping on a 200 shot on an engine with a stock bottom end. (I've seen a lot of ricers with nitrous "issues" at the track...) The key word hear is detonation.... avoid it like the plague, as it will eat your engine for lunch. Keep your engine running well and use high (93) octane fuels and you should be fine for a small hit of giggle gas. To be honest, in my opinion a well tuned 4.6 should be able to handle a responsible dry 75 shot now and again. I am a convert of dry shot systems on near stock cars, while they don't produce the hp numbers that wet kits do, they're a heck of a lot safer for your engine. ------------------ "The Yellowjacket" 1998 Mustang GT 13.97@103 "Hey, you weren't supposed to be that fast!"- Turbo Eclipse Driver