Starter problem....still there

Hethj7 · 07-17-2002, 05:14 PM

For those that have been following my starter problem, I apparently didn't fix it.
The starter still stays engaged sometimes after the car is started.

Here is part of my previous post on it:
This was after the starter had stayed engaged and the wire on the top of it was pulled off. Let me know if anyone has any ideas..

Now it gets interesting. With the wire still off, the key in the off position, and the clutch out, we went to hook the battery back up. The starter immediately engaged. So, it has to be that the solenoid is stuck, correct? That is the only place the starter can receive power from.

Our theory now is that the only place that solenoid can find ground, is through the panel it mounts on. Well, I was missing a screw, so just one was holding it on. Maybe it couldn't always find ground and was in turn looking for ground through the starter. We pulled the solenoid off and took it apart. It looks like the solenoid has been welding itself to each post, and I assume that happens when it can't ground itself to the fender.

So I now have what I think to be a good ground and a 3rd newe solenoid, but have the same problem

.

PKRWUD · 07-17-2002, 05:24 PM

Next time it does it, pull the small wire off the solenoid. If it stops, you have a problem in the ignition switch, if it doesn't, you have a bad relay. I'm sorry to keep repeating myself, but this is a very simple circuit, and it's really that simple.

Take care,
-Chris

Hethj7 · 07-17-2002, 05:57 PM

Okay, Chris. I realize this is a simple circuit too and appreciate your help.

I did what you said just now. The starter stayed engaged and I pulled the top wire off. The starter continued to stay engaged with that wire off, so I pulled the negative on the battery off. Right now, with the key off, and that wire still disconnected, I can start to hook the battery back up but it begins to engage.

This would mean the problem is in that solenoid on the fender right? But this is my 3rd new one, so where do I look to see what is causing this?

PKRWUD · 07-17-2002, 06:46 PM

How are you wiring the relay? What wires go where?

Hethj7 · 07-17-2002, 07:09 PM

I have the one wire running down to the starter hooked to the relay post farthest from the battery. It is the only wire on that post. The other post includes about 5 wires I believe, including one I run back to my amp. I am not sure what all those wires go to, but that is how my original solenoid was wired when I first switched them.

btw, we are both talking about the solenoid/relay by the battery, correct? Just curious, as you keep referring to a relay and I refer to a soleniod. Maybe my terminology is wrong, but I wanted to make sure we are on the same page

!

PKRWUD · 07-18-2002, 02:46 AM

Well, that sounds like you've got it wired correctly. Either you still are having a grounding problem, or you're buying junk relays.

Take care,
-Chris

Hethj7 · 07-18-2002, 06:36 PM

3 junk relays from two different auto parts stores? Seems unlikely.

I don't know what to do. Is there a way to make certain my ground is good?

Is it possible that a wiring problem somewhere else in the system could be causing the solenoid to weld itself closed? I am kind of at a loss here

.

Kamaro Killer · 07-18-2002, 06:50 PM

I don't know if it really would matter, but are you putting the wires on the opposite posts? I did this and fryed my relay. Keith

Hethj7 · 07-18-2002, 07:10 PM

I am pretty sure the wires are connected correctly. There is the single small wire on the small top post (the wire that just pushes on). Then, the post closest to my battery has the constant power stuff on it while the post farthest from the battery has the starter wire on it.

Kamaro Killer · 07-18-2002, 07:17 PM

I actually put the single wire on the right side, and the rest of the wires on the other post (farthest from the battery). Hopefully it is as simple as this. This happened to me too, so you're not the only one, lol

.

Hethj7 · 07-18-2002, 07:25 PM

So you wired yours exactly opposite of mine and it works fine? I wouldn't think it would make a difference, but I am up for anything at this point. That was the way the original was wired though, but maybe I will switch them around.

Kamaro Killer · 07-18-2002, 07:31 PM

Maybe you should secure the relay (solenoid) a little better, just to eliminate that problem too. I got frustrated after buying my third relay and actually put a bolt through the relay and a nut on the back of it to make sure the realy was ground properly. Just a thought in case switching the posts doesn't work.

Hethj7 · 07-18-2002, 07:40 PM

I have two bolts holding it onto the fender and a wire running off of one to the ground on the battery.

Hethj7 · 07-18-2002, 07:56 PM

Even though the starter has been replaced, it is possible that it is bad and pulling so much current that the contacts are welding?

joe4speed · 07-19-2002, 01:23 AM

I went through like six relays and 4 cheapo starters before I bought a high-torque mini starter.... I've never had a problem since! Good luck dude.... My car doesn't even run anymore.

Hethj7 · 07-19-2002, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by joe4speed
Good luck dude.... My car doesn't even run anymore.

So I get a high torque starter and my car won't run anymore...I'm all over that

!

Joe, what do you mean your car doesn't run anymore? Have I missed something on the boards here? I didn't know you were having problems with it.

Hethj7 · 07-19-2002, 06:55 AM

In my ongoing quest to solve my starter problem I have another question.

Does the negative on my battery need to be hooked up to use a test light with the positive on the battery and a ground anywhere else on the car? I am pretty sure it does but I thought I would check.

btw, with the battery hooked up, it looks like I am getting a good ground through the solenoid using a test light. Looks like I may be pulling my starter off next week to get it checked

.

joe4speed · 07-19-2002, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hethj7

So I get a high torque starter and my car won't run anymore...I'm all over that !

Joe, what do you mean your car doesn't run anymore? Have I missed something on the boards here? I didn't know you were having problems with it.

LOLOLOL Nooooo It's run fine for three years after I got that starter.. That might not be the reason, but it seemed to have fixed the starter issue for me!!

Heth, there is a thread titled "Odd" around here somewhere.... My car has developed some kind of mysterious problem, and no one can seem to figure it out, It runs, but I'm afraid to drive it, I really don't want to be stranded anywhere, so there it sits, under a car cover.

higg13001 · 07-23-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hethj7

For those that have been following my starter problem, I apparently didn't fix it.
The starter still stays engaged sometimes after the car is started.

Here is part of my previous post on it:
This was after the starter had stayed engaged and the wire on the top of it was pulled off. Let me know if anyone has any ideas..

Now it gets interesting. With the wire still off, the key in the off position, and the clutch out, we went to hook the battery back up. The starter immediately engaged. So, it has to be that the solenoid is stuck, correct? That is the only place the starter can receive power from.

Our theory now is that the only place that solenoid can find ground, is through the panel it mounts on. Well, I was missing a screw, so just one was holding it on. Maybe it couldn't always find ground and was in turn looking for ground through the starter. We pulled the solenoid off and took it apart. It looks like the solenoid has been welding itself to each post, and I assume that happens when it can't ground itself to the fender.

So I now have what I think to be a good ground and a 3rd newe solenoid, but have the same problem

.

I see this is an old thread, but I was wondering if you got your starter problem fixed, and if so, HOW? My '90 5.0 (5 spd.) began to have the same problem with the starter as yours, for no apparent reason. Mike

07-17-2002, 05:14 PM	#1
Hethj7 Mizzou Tigers Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: weston, MO United States Posts: 1,455	Starter problem....still there For those that have been following my starter problem, I apparently didn't fix it. The starter still stays engaged sometimes after the car is started. Here is part of my previous post on it: This was after the starter had stayed engaged and the wire on the top of it was pulled off. Let me know if anyone has any ideas.. Now it gets interesting. With the wire still off, the key in the off position, and the clutch out, we went to hook the battery back up. The starter immediately engaged. So, it has to be that the solenoid is stuck, correct? That is the only place the starter can receive power from. Our theory now is that the only place that solenoid can find ground, is through the panel it mounts on. Well, I was missing a screw, so just one was holding it on. Maybe it couldn't always find ground and was in turn looking for ground through the starter. We pulled the solenoid off and took it apart. It looks like the solenoid has been welding itself to each post, and I assume that happens when it can't ground itself to the fender. So I now have what I think to be a good ground and a 3rd newe solenoid, but have the same problem . __________________ 2006 Mustang GT 1990 LX GT-40 motor 262 horsepower, 307ft-lbs (sold but forever loved) 1998 Contour SVT Rice Haters Club Member #244

07-17-2002, 05:24 PM	#2
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Next time it does it, pull the small wire off the solenoid. If it stops, you have a problem in the ignition switch, if it doesn't, you have a bad relay. I'm sorry to keep repeating myself, but this is a very simple circuit, and it's really that simple. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

07-17-2002, 05:57 PM	#3
Hethj7 Mizzou Tigers Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: weston, MO United States Posts: 1,455	Okay, Chris. I realize this is a simple circuit too and appreciate your help. I did what you said just now. The starter stayed engaged and I pulled the top wire off. The starter continued to stay engaged with that wire off, so I pulled the negative on the battery off. Right now, with the key off, and that wire still disconnected, I can start to hook the battery back up but it begins to engage. This would mean the problem is in that solenoid on the fender right? But this is my 3rd new one, so where do I look to see what is causing this? __________________ 2006 Mustang GT 1990 LX GT-40 motor 262 horsepower, 307ft-lbs (sold but forever loved) 1998 Contour SVT Rice Haters Club Member #244

07-17-2002, 06:46 PM	#4
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	How are you wiring the relay? What wires go where? __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

07-17-2002, 07:09 PM	#5
Hethj7 Mizzou Tigers Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: weston, MO United States Posts: 1,455	I have the one wire running down to the starter hooked to the relay post farthest from the battery. It is the only wire on that post. The other post includes about 5 wires I believe, including one I run back to my amp. I am not sure what all those wires go to, but that is how my original solenoid was wired when I first switched them. btw, we are both talking about the solenoid/relay by the battery, correct? Just curious, as you keep referring to a relay and I refer to a soleniod. Maybe my terminology is wrong, but I wanted to make sure we are on the same page ! __________________ 2006 Mustang GT 1990 LX GT-40 motor 262 horsepower, 307ft-lbs (sold but forever loved) 1998 Contour SVT Rice Haters Club Member #244

07-18-2002, 02:46 AM	#6
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Well, that sounds like you've got it wired correctly. Either you still are having a grounding problem, or you're buying junk relays. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

07-18-2002, 06:36 PM	#7
Hethj7 Mizzou Tigers Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: weston, MO United States Posts: 1,455	3 junk relays from two different auto parts stores? Seems unlikely. I don't know what to do. Is there a way to make certain my ground is good? Is it possible that a wiring problem somewhere else in the system could be causing the solenoid to weld itself closed? I am kind of at a loss here . __________________ 2006 Mustang GT 1990 LX GT-40 motor 262 horsepower, 307ft-lbs (sold but forever loved) 1998 Contour SVT Rice Haters Club Member #244

07-18-2002, 06:50 PM	#8
Kamaro Killer Mustang Enthusiast Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 528	an idea I don't know if it really would matter, but are you putting the wires on the opposite posts? I did this and fryed my relay. Keith __________________ 1993 GT 5.0-My Stang Rice Hater's Club Member 22

07-18-2002, 07:10 PM	#9
Hethj7 Mizzou Tigers Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: weston, MO United States Posts: 1,455	I am pretty sure the wires are connected correctly. There is the single small wire on the small top post (the wire that just pushes on). Then, the post closest to my battery has the constant power stuff on it while the post farthest from the battery has the starter wire on it. __________________ 2006 Mustang GT 1990 LX GT-40 motor 262 horsepower, 307ft-lbs (sold but forever loved) 1998 Contour SVT Rice Haters Club Member #244

07-18-2002, 07:17 PM	#10
Kamaro Killer Mustang Enthusiast Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 528	I wired mine the opposite way I actually put the single wire on the right side, and the rest of the wires on the other post (farthest from the battery). Hopefully it is as simple as this. This happened to me too, so you're not the only one, lol . __________________ 1993 GT 5.0-My Stang Rice Hater's Club Member 22

07-18-2002, 07:25 PM	#11
Hethj7 Mizzou Tigers Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: weston, MO United States Posts: 1,455	So you wired yours exactly opposite of mine and it works fine? I wouldn't think it would make a difference, but I am up for anything at this point. That was the way the original was wired though, but maybe I will switch them around. __________________ 2006 Mustang GT 1990 LX GT-40 motor 262 horsepower, 307ft-lbs (sold but forever loved) 1998 Contour SVT Rice Haters Club Member #244

07-18-2002, 07:31 PM	#12
Kamaro Killer Mustang Enthusiast Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 528	maybe put a nut and bolt through Maybe you should secure the relay (solenoid) a little better, just to eliminate that problem too. I got frustrated after buying my third relay and actually put a bolt through the relay and a nut on the back of it to make sure the realy was ground properly. Just a thought in case switching the posts doesn't work. __________________ 1993 GT 5.0-My Stang Rice Hater's Club Member 22

07-18-2002, 07:40 PM	#13
Hethj7 Mizzou Tigers Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: weston, MO United States Posts: 1,455	I have two bolts holding it onto the fender and a wire running off of one to the ground on the battery. __________________ 2006 Mustang GT 1990 LX GT-40 motor 262 horsepower, 307ft-lbs (sold but forever loved) 1998 Contour SVT Rice Haters Club Member #244

07-18-2002, 07:56 PM	#14
Hethj7 Mizzou Tigers Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: weston, MO United States Posts: 1,455	Even though the starter has been replaced, it is possible that it is bad and pulling so much current that the contacts are welding? __________________ 2006 Mustang GT 1990 LX GT-40 motor 262 horsepower, 307ft-lbs (sold but forever loved) 1998 Contour SVT Rice Haters Club Member #244

07-19-2002, 01:23 AM	#15
joe4speed He said Member...heh, heh Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Jupiter, Florida U.S.A. Posts: 3,718	I went through like six relays and 4 cheapo starters before I bought a high-torque mini starter.... I've never had a problem since! Good luck dude.... My car doesn't even run anymore. __________________ *Joe!* 1988 GT, 13.58@101mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:www.joe4speed.com

07-19-2002, 06:55 AM	#17
Hethj7 Mizzou Tigers Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: weston, MO United States Posts: 1,455	In my ongoing quest to solve my starter problem I have another question. Does the negative on my battery need to be hooked up to use a test light with the positive on the battery and a ground anywhere else on the car? I am pretty sure it does but I thought I would check. btw, with the battery hooked up, it looks like I am getting a good ground through the solenoid using a test light. Looks like I may be pulling my starter off next week to get it checked . __________________ 2006 Mustang GT 1990 LX GT-40 motor 262 horsepower, 307ft-lbs (sold but forever loved) 1998 Contour SVT Rice Haters Club Member #244

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