How come horsepower tv gained a very small amount of hp off a 70mm TB on a 97 stang?

[96_4.6]

Just wonering but they had a stock I think 97 or 98 I'm pretty sure it was an 97 mustang gt and its there project car that is DEAD stock minus the working mach ram air hood. Here in michigan we have this great show called horsepower TV on tnn!!! Anyways the only engine mod they made was the 70mm throttlebody and they dynoed it right in front of you and they gained up to the whopping 183 rear wheel horsepower, wow I think that was after the TB but they wouldnt put something on if they were going to lose horsepower cause there trying to get the most HP out of this thing, BTW they put longtubes, highflow h-pipe with cats and tuned it with superchip tuner and got up to 204 RWHP....grrrrrr but I think I'm gonna finally spend the 120 bucks to get a mac 70mm. might as well

[The Deuce]

You will notice how they keep doing little stuff to the car and not making any real power. He didn't say what they did with the tune, but I'm going to guess most of that was from a bump in timing.

Also, they have not put pullies on the car, which is strange.

The point is that a 70mm t/b might give you some hp, but its definatly not worth the money you spend. Look at how much they are into that car to only be at 204 at the wheels.

$400 for l/t's
$350 for the h pipe (notice they didnt' mention that price)
$300 for the superchips (at least)
$200 for the t/b.

That's almost $1300 if you're getting pretty decent pricing. A good sign the show is a waste of advice are the 'euro lights' on the mustang and the civic in the garage.

For the kind of money they have spent, you could bolt some SVO or PI heads on the car and make more power. But they didn't.

[96_4.6]

Before the tune they gained with just the bigger TB and thats the only episode I've seen with that black mustang and money is tight and I can get a mac TB for like 100-120 bucks and even if its 2hp It worth it to me theres just alyways been the pro and cons and a con is you can lose hp off it so thats why I've held off but I need some more bolt on's cause I wont be able to do a headswap or blower for a very very long time, I'm 20, live at home and I make $9.50 an hour getting a raise to 10.00 next week and I'm supposed to be saving for college hehe but keep buying car parts so I can spend small portions at a time so I dunno

[96_4.6]

Speaking of TB's I looked on ebay for throttle body spacers and it says up to 22hp increase lol anyone have one of these do they even do anything?? I'm gonna do a search one here just wonderin cause I never really heard anyone talk about those on here too much, thanks!

[GodStang]

one thing you have to think about on the shows. It is not live. They get to show you what ever clip they want to. I had my car dynoed today. on the first run I dynoed bone stock 271.8 HP and then with my second run with no mods I put down 277.6 HP. That is a gain of 5.8 HP with ABSOLUTLY nothing done. So say they run it three times before mod and take the lowest and then take it three times after the mod. Take the lowest from the first and highest from the second set and send it to the editing room and bam you have a big gain due to what ever. I mean if after the first run I brushed off my tires and then did the run again I could of said that I gained 5.8HP from cleaning my tires. All I am saying is becareful of TV and Magizines, the products that they are deminstrating are the ones sponcering them.

[96_4.6]

Oh I undertsand that its just the first dyno results I've seen on a 96-98 gt with a 70mm tb. Everyone says you will lose horsepower blah blah blah but what if you dont? Until someone makes 5 runs bone stock and 5 runs with a bigger tb on our non pi head cars we wont know cause like i said I can only spend very little money on parts cause I'm young and I'm not one of those kids were the parents give them whatever they want cause were not rich so I'm just lookin for a decent $100-$120 mod and that fits......

[The Deuce]

save your money for things we know work.

but then where's the fun in that right? It would only benefit you in the long run....

[xxxBlakexxx]

The Deuce and GodStang both make some very good points! But I would also add that the proof is in the pudding or at least in the actual performance of the car. Who really gives a crap about HP...as there are soo many factors that affect a Dyno. Remember, numbers never lie, but liars use numbers.

I know all of us get sucked into this HP thing. Hell, Ford has gotten into trouble over the 5.0 about lying about the HP of the vehicle in the past. The only thing that really concerns me is, does the car go faster? If you are going to add a bolt-on, ask yourself if it makes sense? If it is worth it, then do it.

Personally, I would not dump another $200 into a car for just 2 HP (if that is a real number), but I would add $200 to decrease my 1/4 mile by 0.3 seconds or my 0-60 by 0.2 seconds. To me, this is real measured data.

The problem that most of us face is that we can't afford to do a Dyno everytime we turn around and we have to rely on others even if it is a company trying to sell something.

Oh, one more note, I am always suspicious of Dyno data on a car when trying to measure the impact of an air related bolt-on device. Think about it, a larger TB brings more air into a car. As long as the fuel system can compensate, bingo more power! But, on a Dyno, the car is not moving. So, therefore, the air is not passing over the vehicle. As a result, the air must be sucked into the engine instead of being pushed and there will be less air turn-over under the hood. As a result, I would suspect that the air temp would also be higher during a Dyno than in real world driving which would also impact the performance of the engine.

I believe that Dynos are extremely useful for tuning an engine...making timing adjustments on very high-output vehicles especially when experimenting with race-fuels and compression. A Dyno is the only way to setup a car like this. Measuring the impact of a larger TB, forget about it.

Oh, by the way, if you want to have some fun, drop $100 on an acelerometer and see how your car is truly performing. You can test it and test it as much as you like before and after the TB addition. If you don't see a change, then send it back.

[96_4.6]

I know and I agree with the before you buy it does it make sense. I've always asked around from working on cars when I was very little(watching rather) on my dads barracuda to my cousins mustang buddies to people at the gym who work for gm it just makes sense the more air you force in the engine the more power it makes being told the engine is just one big air pump but the heads of course right so nuts to that I guess and 200 is alot I'm not talkin BBK you can get mac's for like 100 on the net with free ship so its not too bad but on the way to the gym the check engine light poped on so I dont know if I'm gonna do any mods just yet

[blue00gt]

One good thing about doing the little mods is that when you finally do get heads to fix the bottleneck, all those other mods will really work. Until then you just aren't getting what you could be from intake and exhaust mods.

[explicitone]

Originally posted by 96_4.6
I know and I agree with the before you buy it does it make sense. I've always asked around from working on cars when I was very little(watching rather) on my dads barracuda to my cousins mustang buddies to people at the gym who work for gm it just makes sense the more air you force in the engine the more power it makes being told the engine is just one big air pump but the heads of course right so nuts to that I guess and 200 is alot I'm not talkin BBK you can get mac's for like 100 on the net with free ship so its not too bad but on the way to the gym the check engine light poped on so I dont know if I'm gonna do any mods just yet

you have the C&L plenum get a 70mm t/b and be done with it I went from a 13.8@100 to a 13.5@102.9 with a c&l and a mac 70mm t/b and I paid 180 for the C&L and 110 for the t/b

so I paid under 300$ to pick up 2.9 mph and drop .3 in the 1/4 I tried just the t/b and went from a 13.8@100 to a 13.71@101 and I did all my testing on the same day and swapped it all in the staging lanes at the track

[96_4.6]

YET once again you have the 99+ gt with the PI heads and I dont, thats the difference maker that enables you to gain off a bigger TB....

[explicitone]

Originally posted by 96_4.6
YET once again you have the 99+ gt with the PI heads and I dont, thats the difference maker that enables you to gain off a bigger TB....

yes people are picking up power and dropping time with this combo on a non pi headed stang and yes I know I have the pi heads and you dont but I wonder why I said it any way

[96_4.6]

But how, I wasnt trying to undermind you at all I was just saying I could get a 70mm tb for pretty cheap but its been made a waste on here and I would proberly lose off it so I guess I'm just gonna throw on the new plenum on the stock 65mm until I see some dynos that arent from a tricked out 97gt from C&L

[xxxBlakexxx]

Explicitone:

Just wondering why you went with the 70 mm TB in lieu of the 75 mm. Let me know why you see with your times if you ever put in the larger ones. I went with the 75 mm with my plenum based on recomendations from C&L and Sacremento Mustang. I was also trying to think about future upgrades.

Thanks.