Wild induction system

RPM427 · 07-26-2002, 01:06 PM

What would be the differences between these two induction setups on this engine?

engine:
Trickflow High port stage 3 heads and basic SVO 408 shortblock from Bennett racing, 7,000 rpm, custom cam, ~650hp N/A, 300-400hp Nitrous plate system.

ok, here are the two induction options, both are fuel injection:

a) Edelbrock super victor modified for injectors + 90 deg elbow for TB

b) Edelbrock victor 5.8

What will be the differences in the HP and Torque curves between the two with the same cam? Will there be a huge difference in peak horsepower and operating range?

RPM427 · 07-26-2002, 02:01 PM

What size hood will I have to get with the super vic and the 90 deg elbow?

jimberg · 07-26-2002, 03:54 PM

I'd go with the TFS 351W intake. And I did.

It's designed to mate up with the TFS heads. The taper in the runners will also give you better air velocity going into the head.

If you're absolutely limited to the choices you mentioned, go with the Victor 5.8. The modified super victor would go better with a supercharger.

The grind of the camshaft should depend on what intake you choose. Both need to be optimized to work in the same power band.

jimberg · 07-26-2002, 03:55 PM

Oh, I noticed that you are running a TFS stage 2 cam. Did you also upgrade the valve springs?

HORSEMEN RACING · 07-26-2002, 04:49 PM

Not that I am doubting Bennett's ability,but 650hp from a hydraulic roller is asking a lot,especially in the rpm range you are looking for,the cam is not the problem but the lifters,and you have to be careful of them collapsing,if it was me looking to make that kind of power,I would run solid rollers,you will definitely make the power with a solid roller,and it does not have to be a wild cam either.

I would go with the Super Victor converted to fuel injection,I know the Eddy Victor is good to 5000-8000rpm,but it is still a fuel injected manifold.

No offense but why not run a carburetor? You will definitely make the power no doubt with a Super Victor,950HP carb,and some compression,somewhere is the 11.1 to 12.1 range,and then that nitrous shaker will really wake you up.

TFS R is a good intake but 650hp is a lot to ask a fuel injected manifold.

Good luck with your combo.

RPM427 · 07-26-2002, 05:47 PM

I'm sorry. This is for a completly new engine. It is for a project I will be starting next summmer (1990 GT). Its a solid roller cam engine, and is going to operate between 4-7k rpm. The engine I was looking into is accually thier "700hp crate engine". I want to stay with Fuel Injection so I can use a stand alone engine managment system like Accels system. I have some expirence with DFI throught the Formula SAE racecar my university builds every year. I am co-captian and in charge of the intake and fuel system. Carbs don't even compare to Digital Fuel Injection. There is a lot more power in DFI then carbs.

I am not sure the Victor 5.8 will support that much Horsepower and RPM.

Check this out:
http://www.bennettracing.com/pdf/ben...mra_spread.pdf
Its the "basic 417"

ultraflo · 07-26-2002, 06:12 PM

The Victor EFI intakes have an advertised operating range of 4000-8000rpm out of the box... I think the Victor EFI manifolds will support 700hp. easily. Short runner intakes with LARGE cross-sectional ports...

There are some modified hyd. rollers that are spun to 8000+rpms... I spin mine to 7000 (Victor EFI intake w/ two 1" spacers) and pull a gear no prob. AFM sells a hyd. roller cam that is claimed to be good to 8600 with Ti valves, 10* locks and retainers, and STOCK hyd. roller lifters... I run Ti locks and retainers, but WHOA! the Ti. valves are out of the budgie.

Overall, I'm pleased w/ my Victor 5.0 intake, and I plan to use it on the solid roller R-block 331 I have planned for this winter's project... of course I'm going to ditch the spacers and clean-up the ports some... I don't have any experience with carb-to-EFI intakes, but obviously they work pretty good on some of the Big Dog's rides that make well over 1500hp...

I'll have to settle for just 575-600hp for now...

LX4Play · 07-26-2002, 08:18 PM

Why not try the new Reichard Racing Billet EFI intake? Anderson Motorsport just did some very recent engine dyno testing with all EFI intakes on a big stroker motor and the Reichard Racing absolutely "Killed' the competition, hands down. Call Rick and ask him about it. The upper is hand crafted, one piece, carved billet aluminum with 90mm TB (I beleive you can get any size custom built) along with TFS-R lower (heavily ported and matched to upper). This intake flows 400+ cfm per runner, with fully balanced runners. It's alot of money, but you get what you pay for!

jwboner · 07-27-2002, 02:30 AM

I went from carb to dfi and use a 4bbl 1200 cfm t.b. with no elbow. Ported vic jr. and ported tfs track heat heads and tfs stage 3 cam. I don't make the kind of hp you are but it's pretty good. With the dfi I tuned it to have good low end kickin in at 1800 rpm and runs like a top through 6500, don't take it any higher due to the stock hyd roller lifters. The short runners of the carb intakes will make more high end hp than the long runner efi intakes especially the large super vic runners. Sounds like it will be quite a little motor when you get it done, good luck.

RPM427 · 07-27-2002, 08:52 AM

Which system are you using? I was probably going to go with the ACCEL DFI Engine Management System.

jwboner · 07-28-2002, 01:40 PM

It's the gen 7 with calmap 2002.

HORSEMEN RACING · 07-29-2002, 08:40 AM

not to start a flaming war,but saying a carb can't compare to fuel injection is a pretty strong statement. I do not know how much racing you keep up with but NMRA has a class called Hot Street where the cars run NA big inch high compression Windsor based engines and inline heads,Ken Compton started the year off with DFI Accel injection and was running 9.50's and the occassional 9.40 making 790hp,since he has switched to a HP type carburetor,and Super Victor intake and has been running 9.30's since.

I am a fuelie guy through and through but saying a carb can't compare to fuel injection in a NA application that is a stretch,plus you cannot compare cost either.

jimberg · 07-29-2002, 08:45 AM

You absolutely can make big power with a carb. The problem, though, is that they aren't very streetable. Fuel injection is the way to go if you intend to drive your car around town. It will run better and get way better gas mileage.

jwboner · 07-30-2002, 03:11 AM

I agree for ALL OUT POWER I would go with a carb anyday. I was just getting tired of tuning the thing every few days just to keep it running right when I would get stuck in traffic (stop n go) in the heat. The dfi lets me tune from driver's seat without opening the hood, haven't seen much improvement in mpg. And it definitely costs more, about $4000 more when all was done. But I did it and ain't lookin back.

07-26-2002, 01:06 PM	#1
RPM427 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Huntington NY Posts: 573	Wild induction system What would be the differences between these two induction setups on this engine? engine: Trickflow High port stage 3 heads and basic SVO 408 shortblock from Bennett racing, 7,000 rpm, custom cam, ~650hp N/A, 300-400hp Nitrous plate system. ok, here are the two induction options, both are fuel injection: a) Edelbrock super victor modified for injectors + 90 deg elbow for TB b) Edelbrock victor 5.8 What will be the differences in the HP and Torque curves between the two with the same cam? Will there be a huge difference in peak horsepower and operating range? __________________ -1993 Mustang, 900rwhp 03-04 cobra based 4v swap, full Griggs setup, project underway -1994 Ranger w/ 427cid windsor (daily beater) check it out!

07-26-2002, 02:01 PM	#2
RPM427 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Huntington NY Posts: 573	What size hood will I have to get with the super vic and the 90 deg elbow? __________________ -1993 Mustang, 900rwhp 03-04 cobra based 4v swap, full Griggs setup, project underway -1994 Ranger w/ 427cid windsor (daily beater) check it out!

07-26-2002, 03:54 PM	#3
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	I'd go with the TFS 351W intake. And I did. It's designed to mate up with the TFS heads. The taper in the runners will also give you better air velocity going into the head. If you're absolutely limited to the choices you mentioned, go with the Victor 5.8. The modified super victor would go better with a supercharger. The grind of the camshaft should depend on what intake you choose. Both need to be optimized to work in the same power band. __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

07-26-2002, 03:55 PM	#4
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Oh, I noticed that you are running a TFS stage 2 cam. Did you also upgrade the valve springs? __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

07-26-2002, 04:49 PM	#5
HORSEMEN RACING Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Camp Pendleton,Cali Posts: 95	650hp on the motor? Not that I am doubting Bennett's ability,but 650hp from a hydraulic roller is asking a lot,especially in the rpm range you are looking for,the cam is not the problem but the lifters,and you have to be careful of them collapsing,if it was me looking to make that kind of power,I would run solid rollers,you will definitely make the power with a solid roller,and it does not have to be a wild cam either. I would go with the Super Victor converted to fuel injection,I know the Eddy Victor is good to 5000-8000rpm,but it is still a fuel injected manifold. No offense but why not run a carburetor? You will definitely make the power no doubt with a Super Victor,950HP carb,and some compression,somewhere is the 11.1 to 12.1 range,and then that nitrous shaker will really wake you up. TFS R is a good intake but 650hp is a lot to ask a fuel injected manifold. Good luck with your combo. __________________ OC "there are 5,000 Army troops sitting on their butts doing nothing,while 2 companies of Marines are securing this island" spoken by a Army General on the Isle of Grenada in 1983

07-26-2002, 05:47 PM	#6
RPM427 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Huntington NY Posts: 573	I'm sorry. This is for a completly new engine. It is for a project I will be starting next summmer (1990 GT). Its a solid roller cam engine, and is going to operate between 4-7k rpm. The engine I was looking into is accually thier "700hp crate engine". I want to stay with Fuel Injection so I can use a stand alone engine managment system like Accels system. I have some expirence with DFI throught the Formula SAE racecar my university builds every year. I am co-captian and in charge of the intake and fuel system. Carbs don't even compare to Digital Fuel Injection. There is a lot more power in DFI then carbs. I am not sure the Victor 5.8 will support that much Horsepower and RPM. Check this out: http://www.bennettracing.com/pdf/ben...mra_spread.pdf Its the "basic 417" __________________ -1993 Mustang, 900rwhp 03-04 cobra based 4v swap, full Griggs setup, project underway -1994 Ranger w/ 427cid windsor (daily beater) check it out! Last edited by RPM427; 07-26-2002 at 05:53 PM..

07-26-2002, 06:12 PM	#7
ultraflo NX dealer-man Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Peoria, Illinois Posts: 977	The Victor EFI intakes have an advertised operating range of 4000-8000rpm out of the box... I think the Victor EFI manifolds will support 700hp. easily. Short runner intakes with LARGE cross-sectional ports... There are some modified hyd. rollers that are spun to 8000+rpms... I spin mine to 7000 (Victor EFI intake w/ two 1" spacers) and pull a gear no prob. AFM sells a hyd. roller cam that is claimed to be good to 8600 with Ti valves, 10* locks and retainers, and STOCK hyd. roller lifters... I run Ti locks and retainers, but WHOA! the Ti. valves are out of the budgie. Overall, I'm pleased w/ my Victor 5.0 intake, and I plan to use it on the solid roller R-block 331 I have planned for this winter's project... of course I'm going to ditch the spacers and clean-up the ports some... I don't have any experience with carb-to-EFI intakes, but obviously they work pretty good on some of the Big Dog's rides that make well over 1500hp... I'll have to settle for just 575-600hp for now... __________________ RLS Racing! 93 LX 9.20 @ 147mph 03 Mach 1 12.39 @ 116mph

07-26-2002, 08:18 PM	#8
LX4Play Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 7	Why not try the new Reichard Racing Billet EFI intake? Anderson Motorsport just did some very recent engine dyno testing with all EFI intakes on a big stroker motor and the Reichard Racing absolutely "Killed' the competition, hands down. Call Rick and ask him about it. The upper is hand crafted, one piece, carved billet aluminum with 90mm TB (I beleive you can get any size custom built) along with TFS-R lower (heavily ported and matched to upper). This intake flows 400+ cfm per runner, with fully balanced runners. It's alot of money, but you get what you pay for! __________________ '93 LX coupe- N/A 331, TEA TFS-TW's, Holley, 75mm TB, 80mm Pro-m, 36# inj's, MSD digital 6, BBK 1 3/4" LT's, 2 1/2" X-pipe, Spintech mufflers. "Sucks gas and hauls *****!"

07-27-2002, 02:30 AM	#9
jwboner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Under the hood Posts: 164	I went from carb to dfi and use a 4bbl 1200 cfm t.b. with no elbow. Ported vic jr. and ported tfs track heat heads and tfs stage 3 cam. I don't make the kind of hp you are but it's pretty good. With the dfi I tuned it to have good low end kickin in at 1800 rpm and runs like a top through 6500, don't take it any higher due to the stock hyd roller lifters. The short runners of the carb intakes will make more high end hp than the long runner efi intakes especially the large super vic runners. Sounds like it will be quite a little motor when you get it done, good luck. __________________ 65 fastback 347 DFI injected w/vic jr, TFS heads, MSD, cable clutch TKO, 3.70 9", tc subframe conns, custom traction bars, griffen alum radiator, armored fuel cell, and torq thrust D's Retrofitted Prelude seats. Vintage Air underdash kit. Fiberglass here and there too More on the way all the time.

07-27-2002, 08:52 AM	#10
RPM427 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Huntington NY Posts: 573	Which system are you using? I was probably going to go with the ACCEL DFI Engine Management System. __________________ -1993 Mustang, 900rwhp 03-04 cobra based 4v swap, full Griggs setup, project underway -1994 Ranger w/ 427cid windsor (daily beater) check it out!

07-28-2002, 01:40 PM	#11
jwboner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Under the hood Posts: 164	It's the gen 7 with calmap 2002. __________________ 65 fastback 347 DFI injected w/vic jr, TFS heads, MSD, cable clutch TKO, 3.70 9", tc subframe conns, custom traction bars, griffen alum radiator, armored fuel cell, and torq thrust D's Retrofitted Prelude seats. Vintage Air underdash kit. Fiberglass here and there too More on the way all the time.

07-29-2002, 08:40 AM	#12
HORSEMEN RACING Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Camp Pendleton,Cali Posts: 95	Carb can't compare????? not to start a flaming war,but saying a carb can't compare to fuel injection is a pretty strong statement. I do not know how much racing you keep up with but NMRA has a class called Hot Street where the cars run NA big inch high compression Windsor based engines and inline heads,Ken Compton started the year off with DFI Accel injection and was running 9.50's and the occassional 9.40 making 790hp,since he has switched to a HP type carburetor,and Super Victor intake and has been running 9.30's since. I am a fuelie guy through and through but saying a carb can't compare to fuel injection in a NA application that is a stretch,plus you cannot compare cost either. __________________ OC "there are 5,000 Army troops sitting on their butts doing nothing,while 2 companies of Marines are securing this island" spoken by a Army General on the Isle of Grenada in 1983

07-29-2002, 08:45 AM	#13
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	You absolutely can make big power with a carb. The problem, though, is that they aren't very streetable. Fuel injection is the way to go if you intend to drive your car around town. It will run better and get way better gas mileage. __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

07-30-2002, 03:11 AM	#14
jwboner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Under the hood Posts: 164	I agree for ALL OUT POWER I would go with a carb anyday. I was just getting tired of tuning the thing every few days just to keep it running right when I would get stuck in traffic (stop n go) in the heat. The dfi lets me tune from driver's seat without opening the hood, haven't seen much improvement in mpg. And it definitely costs more, about $4000 more when all was done. But I did it and ain't lookin back. __________________ 65 fastback 347 DFI injected w/vic jr, TFS heads, MSD, cable clutch TKO, 3.70 9", tc subframe conns, custom traction bars, griffen alum radiator, armored fuel cell, and torq thrust D's Retrofitted Prelude seats. Vintage Air underdash kit. Fiberglass here and there too More on the way all the time.

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