Newbie 351 swap questions, I checked old posts w/ no answers

eddielugnutz · 10-04-2005, 02:09 AM

Ok, i did a 351W swap in my 88lx, but I still have a few questions, I used a stock truck 351W, it's slower than my old 5.0 with bolt on's. At least it runs, so now I'm working on heads, cam and the rest of the bolt on goodies. I'm new to mustangs and have a lot of stupid questions, but I hope to be enlightened, show me the way of the force, fox body Yodas!

Do 351W and 302 HO motors share the same firing order? 13726548?

Are 302 and 351W cams interchangeable? I have a B303 I was going to put in my old 5.0, will it work in a 351W?

What is a 351M? I don't know what the M stands for!

Does Fidanza make a lightweight flywheel 157tooth 10.5" clutch that will fit my 351W?

If I use a Trick Flow EFI intake on my 351W can I use my BBK 75mm Throttle body on it? (that I have on my old 5.0)Or do I need a 351W specific TB? I don't know if the openings are the same on the aftermarket intake, or if they all have the twin throttle body opening like my stock truck 351W has. The trick flow add mentioned a 75mm opening, so it sounds like my TB can fit.

Does anyone know what size injectors come on truck 351's? I think 24lb, or 30lb?

What would be the largest cam I could run with stock deck height? I heard i could run a B303 with 1.7 RR's without a problem.

I don't live near a track, so I really am looking for a street car, what would you suggest would benefit a 351W , I'm looking for mostly bottom end power and torque for quick out of the hole for Stop light encounters, so any suggestions on what cam and heads do the most for these motors, I am open for suggestions on what you guys think, I was looking at the following:
Trick flow intake with my 75mm TB and MAF, ECM tune.
AFR heads
B303 cam, 1.7 rockers (If it does indeed fit my motor) IF not, then a cam of similiar profile.

Thank you for any help and answers you can give in advance.

Falcons Talon · 10-04-2005, 07:33 AM

-Do 351W and 302 HO motors share the same firing order? Yes

-Are 302 and 351W cams interchangeable?
Yes, but why would you want 302 performance out of a 351? I got an Ed Curtis Custom grind for $325. Well worth it.

-If I use a Trick Flow EFI intake on my 351W can I use my BBK 75mm Throttle body on it? (that I have on my old 5.0) Yes

-351M? I believe it is for a Mexican Block...Beefy Futher Muckers.

-Does anyone know what size injectors come on truck 351's? Don't know what they came with but I have 30's on mine. Its bored out +.0060 running AFR 185's.

~The Jester~ · 10-04-2005, 10:22 AM

It's a common misconception that the "M" stands for "Modified" but that's not true. Ford simply needed a way distinguish the "new" 351 from the Windsor (Built in Windsor Ontario) and the Cleveland (built in Cleveland.) So Ford engineer's simply called it the M, because the 351M/400 was built in Dearborn, Michigan.

83GTMUSTANG · 10-04-2005, 11:41 AM

Jesters Is Right But Also The 351m Uses A 400 M Block Which Is De Strocked To 351 Cu.s With A Taller And Wider Deck And Also Has The Big Block Trans Pattern On The Back Of The Block....

eddielugnutz · 10-05-2005, 12:20 AM

You guys are the best, you really are helping me out, I couldn't wait to get out of work tonight to see if anyone had answered my questions, I truly apreciate your time and information, and I will put it to good use. Thank you again for your help.

Just another quick question, does anyone make aftermarket fuel rails for 351W? looks like I'd have to buy a 5.0 fuel rail and modify it to fit the wider 351?

how well do 351W respond to supercharging, I heard that they were able to take more boost than a stock 5.0 and that they made a lot more power with the same boost because of the larger stroke/ displacement, My question is: how much can a 351W with a stock lower end take, can it handle 400-500hp? Or should I keep my goal Hp below 400hp if I want a car reliable enough to last more than a few runs.

83GTMUSTANG · 10-05-2005, 10:39 AM

The “M”, by the way, does not stand for anything. Ford only used the “M” designation to distinguish it from the 351 W (Windsor) and the now discontinued 351C (Cleveland). The “M” designation has now become know to mean “modified” or “Michigan”, even though the 351M was produced at both the Cleveland foundry and Michigan casting

The engineers at Ford took the basic 351C block and modified it to power a whole new generation of environmentally-friendly cars and trucks. To start, Ford changed the transmission bell-housing pattern to match that of the larger 429/460 engines. This would allow Ford to continue putting the larger, heavy-duty 460 C6 transmissions with the new 400 engines. Ford also enlarged the main journal diameter from 2.75 inches to 3.0 inches allowing for a greater bearing wear area. The crankshaft stroke was also increased from 3.5 inches to 4.0 inches for a 50 cubic inch increase in engine displacement and greater low-end torque. Finally, the deck height was increased 1.09 inches in order to accommodate the 400s larger stroke. enter.

Dark_5.0 · 10-05-2005, 12:28 PM

I have modified a fuel rail for a 351 it took 10 minutes and worked great. We had 24#injectors on a 393 stroker making 400+RWHP.

eddielugnutz · 10-05-2005, 11:21 PM

That's great info man, thanks, I have a 351 fuel rail from a Bronco/F150 with whatever sized injectors already on the stock motor, so I'll do all my mods and monitor the A/F ratio to make sure i'm not too lean, if you have a stroker with 400+ hp and stock fuel rails, then I'll be fine I hope.

10-04-2005, 02:09 AM	#1
eddielugnutz Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	Newbie 351 swap questions, I checked old posts w/ no answers Ok, i did a 351W swap in my 88lx, but I still have a few questions, I used a stock truck 351W, it's slower than my old 5.0 with bolt on's. At least it runs, so now I'm working on heads, cam and the rest of the bolt on goodies. I'm new to mustangs and have a lot of stupid questions, but I hope to be enlightened, show me the way of the force, fox body Yodas! Do 351W and 302 HO motors share the same firing order? 13726548? Are 302 and 351W cams interchangeable? I have a B303 I was going to put in my old 5.0, will it work in a 351W? What is a 351M? I don't know what the M stands for! Does Fidanza make a lightweight flywheel 157tooth 10.5" clutch that will fit my 351W? If I use a Trick Flow EFI intake on my 351W can I use my BBK 75mm Throttle body on it? (that I have on my old 5.0)Or do I need a 351W specific TB? I don't know if the openings are the same on the aftermarket intake, or if they all have the twin throttle body opening like my stock truck 351W has. The trick flow add mentioned a 75mm opening, so it sounds like my TB can fit. Does anyone know what size injectors come on truck 351's? I think 24lb, or 30lb? What would be the largest cam I could run with stock deck height? I heard i could run a B303 with 1.7 RR's without a problem. I don't live near a track, so I really am looking for a street car, what would you suggest would benefit a 351W , I'm looking for mostly bottom end power and torque for quick out of the hole for Stop light encounters, so any suggestions on what cam and heads do the most for these motors, I am open for suggestions on what you guys think, I was looking at the following: Trick flow intake with my 75mm TB and MAF, ECM tune. AFR heads B303 cam, 1.7 rockers (If it does indeed fit my motor) IF not, then a cam of similiar profile. Thank you for any help and answers you can give in advance. __________________ 88 Lx project. 96 Z28 daily driver.

10-04-2005, 07:33 AM	#2
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	Re: Newbie 351 swap questions, I checked old posts w/ no answers -Do 351W and 302 HO motors share the same firing order? Yes -Are 302 and 351W cams interchangeable? Yes, but why would you want 302 performance out of a 351? I got an Ed Curtis Custom grind for $325. Well worth it. -If I use a Trick Flow EFI intake on my 351W can I use my BBK 75mm Throttle body on it? (that I have on my old 5.0) Yes -351M? I believe it is for a Mexican Block...Beefy Futher Muckers. -Does anyone know what size injectors come on truck 351's? Don't know what they came with but I have 30's on mine. Its bored out +.0060 running AFR 185's. __________________

10-04-2005, 10:22 AM	#3
~The Jester~ Rat Killer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cold ass Ohio Posts: 1,143	Re: Newbie 351 swap questions, I checked old posts w/ no answers It's a common misconception that the "M" stands for "Modified" but that's not true. Ford simply needed a way distinguish the "new" 351 from the Windsor (Built in Windsor Ontario) and the Cleveland (built in Cleveland.) So Ford engineer's simply called it the M, because the 351M/400 was built in Dearborn, Michigan. __________________ d-Con Racing "Nothing fancy, just 347 inches of RAT POISON!" MICE need not apply.....

10-04-2005, 11:41 AM	#4
83GTMUSTANG N-V-ME Join Date: May 2005 Location: SOUTHFIELD,MICHIGAN Posts: 155	Re: Newbie 351 swap questions, I checked old posts w/ no answers Jesters Is Right But Also The 351m Uses A 400 M Block Which Is De Strocked To 351 Cu.s With A Taller And Wider Deck And Also Has The Big Block Trans Pattern On The Back Of The Block.... __________________ 88' LX MUSTANG: LINCOLN ROTORS , AIR SUSPENSION FRONT AND REAR, SUBFRAMES, ROLL CAGE, 92' BLOCK, MSD 6AL, ACCEL 8.8 WIRES, ACCEL COIL, EDELBROCK F4B INTAKE (PORTED),2 IN. 4 HOLE SPACERS, HOLLEY 600 CARB.,HOLLEY BLUE FUEL PUMP AN REGULATOR, E 303 (.498 IN. 220 DUR.) CAM, (.535 IN. OF LIFT W/ 1.72 SCORPIN ROLLER ROCKERS), PORTED E7'S, FLOWTECH 1 5/8 LONG TUBE HEADERS, 2 1/2 IN. H PIPE, 2 CHAMBER FLOWMASTERS WITH 3 IN.DUMPS, T-5, 3.73 GEARS, 5 LUG AEROSTAR AXELS, 245-45-17 96' COBRA WHEELS

10-05-2005, 12:20 AM	#5
eddielugnutz Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	Re: Newbie 351 swap questions, I checked old posts w/ no answers You guys are the best, you really are helping me out, I couldn't wait to get out of work tonight to see if anyone had answered my questions, I truly apreciate your time and information, and I will put it to good use. Thank you again for your help. Just another quick question, does anyone make aftermarket fuel rails for 351W? looks like I'd have to buy a 5.0 fuel rail and modify it to fit the wider 351? how well do 351W respond to supercharging, I heard that they were able to take more boost than a stock 5.0 and that they made a lot more power with the same boost because of the larger stroke/ displacement, My question is: how much can a 351W with a stock lower end take, can it handle 400-500hp? Or should I keep my goal Hp below 400hp if I want a car reliable enough to last more than a few runs. __________________ 88 Lx project. 96 Z28 daily driver. Last edited by eddielugnutz; 10-05-2005 at 01:09 AM..

10-05-2005, 10:39 AM	#6
83GTMUSTANG N-V-ME Join Date: May 2005 Location: SOUTHFIELD,MICHIGAN Posts: 155	Re: Newbie 351 swap questions, I checked old posts w/ no answers The “M”, by the way, does not stand for anything. Ford only used the “M” designation to distinguish it from the 351 W (Windsor) and the now discontinued 351C (Cleveland). The “M” designation has now become know to mean “modified” or “Michigan”, even though the 351M was produced at both the Cleveland foundry and Michigan casting The engineers at Ford took the basic 351C block and modified it to power a whole new generation of environmentally-friendly cars and trucks. To start, Ford changed the transmission bell-housing pattern to match that of the larger 429/460 engines. This would allow Ford to continue putting the larger, heavy-duty 460 C6 transmissions with the new 400 engines. Ford also enlarged the main journal diameter from 2.75 inches to 3.0 inches allowing for a greater bearing wear area. The crankshaft stroke was also increased from 3.5 inches to 4.0 inches for a 50 cubic inch increase in engine displacement and greater low-end torque. Finally, the deck height was increased 1.09 inches in order to accommodate the 400s larger stroke. enter. __________________ 88' LX MUSTANG: LINCOLN ROTORS , AIR SUSPENSION FRONT AND REAR, SUBFRAMES, ROLL CAGE, 92' BLOCK, MSD 6AL, ACCEL 8.8 WIRES, ACCEL COIL, EDELBROCK F4B INTAKE (PORTED),2 IN. 4 HOLE SPACERS, HOLLEY 600 CARB.,HOLLEY BLUE FUEL PUMP AN REGULATOR, E 303 (.498 IN. 220 DUR.) CAM, (.535 IN. OF LIFT W/ 1.72 SCORPIN ROLLER ROCKERS), PORTED E7'S, FLOWTECH 1 5/8 LONG TUBE HEADERS, 2 1/2 IN. H PIPE, 2 CHAMBER FLOWMASTERS WITH 3 IN.DUMPS, T-5, 3.73 GEARS, 5 LUG AEROSTAR AXELS, 245-45-17 96' COBRA WHEELS

10-05-2005, 12:28 PM	#7
Dark_5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Staging lane Posts: 4,337	Re: Newbie 351 swap questions, I checked old posts w/ no answers I have modified a fuel rail for a 351 it took 10 minutes and worked great. We had 24#injectors on a 393 stroker making 400+RWHP. __________________ 92' LX-Big brakes, Lots and lots of suspension, GT40X heads, Ported cobra intake, stock cam, Vortech SC trim. 00' Lightning-Stock 88'CRX-13 second ego killer

10-05-2005, 11:21 PM	#8
eddielugnutz Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	Re: Newbie 351 swap questions, I checked old posts w/ no answers That's great info man, thanks, I have a 351 fuel rail from a Bronco/F150 with whatever sized injectors already on the stock motor, so I'll do all my mods and monitor the A/F ratio to make sure i'm not too lean, if you have a stroker with 400+ hp and stock fuel rails, then I'll be fine I hope. __________________ 88 Lx project. 96 Z28 daily driver.

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