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The Great Debate
I know this question is going to bring on the arguments. I'll start by saying for a mild street machine go stick. For a serious strip car auto is the only way.
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It's all in what you want from the car. I love a 5 speed, to me it's just too much fun. :)
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Manual make make you faster somewhat because it doesn't consume as much power as the 5spd does, but I wouldn't own a 5spd simply for the fact that people aren't near as consistent as a machine it. I would much rather put more power into an engine to compensate for it being eaten by the auto, than drive a stick and not be consistent all the time or miss shift
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ok, I screwed tat post all up... can't talk and type... What was supposed to be there is.... "Manual doesn't consume as much power as Auto" and "wouldn't own a 5spd simply for the fact that people...... consistent as a machine is (not it)." today hasn't been a good day, sorry for the messed up post
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Manual, Manual, Manual. I really wish i had a 5-speed, not cuse I hate my auto (its great!) but because its so much more fun. My best friend and I basically live at each others houses so we drive each others cars all the time. The only thing we dont have in common is our taste in cars. He has a 2000 Civic Si with a ton of mods and a 5-speed. Its a blast to drive. (dont worry id still rather have a Mustang) Theres just something about going through those gears. I don't know but its great. Manual all the way. Unless of course ur running a serious drag car.
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Sports car = manual.
Crusin car = manual or auto. Mild modded = manual Street/Strip = manual or auto. Full out drag = auto. It is acceptable to have a GT vert with an auto. Not a coupe, ehehe. |
Oh my God!
I agree with Unit!!! (The end of the world is nigh...) j/k |
So what's wrong with an automatic coupe?
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I'm talking initial purchase for the above categories. The Mustang Coupe is a sports car. Sports cars are sporty and meant to be driven with some spirit.
The Ford AOD has no spirit. It's a slushbox made to shift like a Lincoln Town Car. Sure you can mod it, but to do it right will set you back $700 more than the same car with a 5spd would, and you still could be slower. Rowing through the gears with control and the crisp response of a 5spd is a pleasure when toying around with a sportscar, and something you cannot imitate with an auto. As far as the vert, it's a great crusin' car. When you're out on the crusin strip, it's nice to just have a nice, smooth, drive amongst some other nice cars (and usually girls) hehe. Too bad there aren't enough days in Minnesota to enjoy like that it seems. Hey Hammer, be careful. Mr 5 0, Dark 5.0, gtsr515, and you have all agreed with me in the last month or so. Might I finally be corrupting people? HHAHAHAHAH |
Maybe so..... but, I have raced several 98's, 99-01's styles (all 5spds) and I handed their bumpers back to them after the race, they had the same mods as me.... Actually the 99-01's should have a little advantage since they have better heads than me, but I still open a can on them..... I love my auto, and would never go to a five speed... I do know how to drive them, so none of that "Well, you just dont' know how to drive one" talk.... :-D
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My 95 z28 was auto and I wanted a change. IMO a manual transmission is much more fun to drive.....but dont get me wrong, an automatic tranny can be very beneficial as well!:D
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AUTO VS. MANUAL ALMOST AS BAD AS RSX VS. PRELUDE ARGUMENT AT CLUBRSX.COM GO RICEBURN
Not trying to start an arugment about wussie japanese cars or anything but ive seen civic si pull away from viper gts r at strip and it was full manual no nos....... if it had been title for title viper woulda been handing over his keys........ Just to make a point just cuz its an auto or a manual it doesnt matter.... and yes most people cannot mimmic the perfect boaring old shifting action of an auto but I dont think bob bondrant or any other pro drag or la mans driver would ever have an auto and if any do its triptrionic shift which means it still has a clutch thats computer controled. The only auto I would ever buy would be the new M power Bemer with there perfected clutchless shift car its amazing. My only problem with all the cars I mentioned are THEY ARENT AS PRETTY AS THE MUSTANG well maybe Viper GT-R is hot too but Im a sucker for mustang cuz it was and still is my first an only car that I bought with my hard earned money..... SHOULD SAVED A LITTLE MORE AND BOUGHT A GT THOUGH CUZ IM TIRED OF CAMAROS REVING AT ME IN MY WUSSIE LITTLE V6....... the only thing I can beat are stock civics and preludes.... its sad and depressing but MY VOTE IS FOR MANUAL ALL THE WAY because once you get smooth and quick at double clutching you can sift faster then any stock or venom modded auto...... :D (YEAH I KNOW IM GONNA GET FLAMED NOW SO I WONT TAKE IT TO PERSONAL :p)
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Isamu29,
Hey, umm, you may laugh at me, but I'm not quite sure what double clutching is. I have a vague idea, but could you clear that up for me? Haha, I have been beating the ricers with what I was taught. Maybe I could adjust to a more efficient way to shift. If you could do a quick instruction, I'd appreciate it! Oh yeah, I like manual. As was said, way too much fun to give up. |
What? Tiptronics do not have clutches. All those are are autos tht you can manually select ALL gears not just first and second. Manuals are much more fun to drive but for racing autos are way mre consistant. With a high stall converter, shift kit, and a ring and pinion the auto will reign supreme. Double clutching is (or at least the definition I know) using the clutch to take it out of gear and into gear. It is also known as 'granny' shifting. But when racing you definitley want to be power shifting.
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ok, now to powershifting
Ok, power shifting is when you don't let off the gas when you shift? That's what I have been told, but haven't actually got it down.
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Like most have said it depends on the situation. The only reason in my opinion to lose the 5 speed is for consistancy down the track. A 5 speed is only as consistant as the driver and can compete with an automatic. I can make a handful of passes on any given night at the local track and be within a couple hundreths of every run, however there is always that one run when you miss a gear and in an elimination round that is when an auto is better.
For a street racing car to say you need an auto doesn't make much sense, on the street consistancy doesn't mean anything power does and auto use more power. At the Atlanta FFW I lost the semi final round due to a missed shift and would have been in the finals if not. So I have been looking into an automatic for my car just for the FFW racing series but the 5 speed will always have a home in my car in heads up racing. Bill |
I bought the auto because it was the only Stang on the lot in the color that I wanted and I got a great deal on the car. The auto in my car just feels sloppy. I put a B&M shift kit in it and it helped a little bit, but in hindsight, I'm sorry I didn't get the 5 speed. Maybe next time. I would recommend the 5 speed to anyone who is in the market for a Stang.
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Okies heh no everone is laughing at me cuz i said triptronics have cluthes
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Isamu I WOULD RACE MY CAR BUT ALL I COULD AFFORD WAS A SHITTY V6 LX MUSTANG...... IF ONLY SOUNDSYSTEMS IMPOROVED HP :p |
Hey thanks! I'll check that stuff out as soon as my boss leaves:p ! I wouldn't mind being about to shift a little better!
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Like GITY UUP said, I wanted a 5-speed to and would only buy a car that had one but when I saw my car for the first time last year and drove it I ended up buying it even though it was an auto. I used to think autos were real slow but not really. Also autos are quite a bit more durable and you don't have to worry about worn or blown clutches that inevitably occur. Some times I wish I had the stick just for kicks though. Manual tranny's are so much more fun to drive.
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I love the manual because it is the only way to go for the twisties. An auto car with the same driver could never keep up unless the auto tranny can rev-match on downshifts.
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SURE NO PROB
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Oh and somthing to think about you can waste your money on your making your car superfast or training yourself.... investing in yourself is always better cuz anyone can make a car fast but being quick is more important..... Thanks agian Isamu |
Nah, sarcasm is over-rated. The more sarcastic you are, the more people are less likely to believe you when you are telling the truth. I really do appreciate the help! I get a kick out of this forum, (kinda keeps me from working too hard:D ). Someday I would like to get into one of those high performance driving schools. That would be such a rush, and would make me a better driver. I agree. You can get any chump in a suped up car, but it's another thing to drive it well!
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From a purist standpoint, the only way to go is a stick in any performance car, be it a Mustang or BMW...I spend more time playing on the curves than the straights in mine. Donuts are alot more fun as well :D
I just dont think that an auto has a place in any racing application, even drag racing. I am not saying it doesnt take skill to run an automatic down the 1320, but lets face it: once you get to know your car, the track, and know what your car will do in the environmental conditions its in, it really isn't too difficult to powerbrake it to a certain rpm, then floor it when tree lights green. all you have to do is keep the nose of the car pointed straight. a five speed is much harder to master in a racing situation, thus more rewarding when you do it right. the plus side is that manual is cheaper to work on if you break it. it saps less power. the downside is in traffic, and the day i feel so lazy i dont want to shift so i ride around in 2nd and 3rd gear all day long |
Not sure where all this Auto bashing is coming from... but, you five speed people aren't above automatics... and yes they do have a place in drag racing, I don't care how fast you are, a human being can not shift as fast or accurately as a machine... As far as the curves go, I don't have any problems leaving puny 5spds in the dust..... You just have to have money to make the auto run fast, which isn't a problem for me....
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since when is having an opinion different than yours considered bashing?? i was in no way bashing automatics, and it has nothing to do with money. i just said it takes more skill to drive a 5 speed well in a racing situation (any situation for that matter), rather than having a computer decide for you. with the exception of a turbocharged car (you dont have to wait for the backpressure to spool the turbo as long - ALOT less lag), a person that is skilled in a manual will beat an automatic everytime, hands down....with the possible exception of the guy that has the blue stang with the massive hood on it
but if you really want to start "bashing" with smart@$$ comments, be my guest. all it does is reek of immaturity. one would think these forums was a place for likeminded individuals to discuss/debate topics regarding something we all love... apparently, anyone who has a different opinion from someone else is flaming/bashing/whatever |
I don't believe Wade73 was bashing at all. I agree with the comments regarding a manual being more fun and it requiring more skill to drive in racing applications. I went with the automatic because I new it was much stronger from the factory and I'm not a good stick driver. I wonder how many T-45s and clutches the turbo would have destroyed by now. The technology has changed quite a bit with automatics causing them to use less power than before to work. Must of the powerloss happens as a result of an unlocked converter. Most computer controlled automatics, including the 4R70W, can apply a percentage of lockup clutch causing less slip and more power to the ground. Torque multiplication is another story. Remember, it's easy driving a manual when you are making decent power, but try it with 500-600+ rwhp. If you don't kill yourself first, your trapspeeds will be awesome but the ET will be lousy unles you spend a ton of time at the track.
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well...
if your battery is dead, you can still (or at least you used to be able to) push start the car and be on your merry way if you have a manual tranny...
try push starting an auto... ;) I prefer a manual transmission, personally! |
Actually, you can push start an auto. It's tricky but my dad and I did it on this POS truck my grandpa had. As far as fun goes, shift your auto manually, it's not as fun but as for as durability and consistentcy goes autos are best.
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I had a '97 V6 coupe (auto) before my current GT (manual)... I loved that car but I was always putting my hand down to shift... I told myself next time it was going to be a V8 and a manual. Now I have that V8 that's a five speed and I enjoy it much more. It feels way more "sporty" but.... I will admit... I have missed a shift when street racing and it is really embarrassing!
I love being able to run at higher RPMs if I want to... (lot's of times I will cruise by the competition at around 3000 - 3500 rpms just so I am sure they can hear me and for them to know that I'm ready to jump...!) |
Why anyone would want the antique manual transmission in a modern computerized car is beyond me. :rolleyes:
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one word: FUN
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Manual fun...
Hey all, I just bought my first Mustang. I have wanted one for a long time. Now I got the job and money so I did it. I bought a 2002 GT Coupe. I had the paper work filled out and was ready to sign on the dotted line for the auto when I thought, "stop...the oracle said this would happen...I have to make a choice..." so I said hold on buddy, lets go with the 5 speed. I am glad. In my old auto truck I had before, I hated not having control over the gears. I am glad I bought the 5speed. For around town driving and street fun, I love the 5 speed.
My cousin has two mustangs. An auto 91 hatchback with transmission works galore and a 331 or 332(can't 'member) cubic inch block with a centrifugal blower that should runs 10 second quarters. Ran 11.2 seconds with only 6lbs of boost last weekend. He also has a 1985 mustang, 5 speed, 5.0 with work, CARBURETOR that he uses as his daily driver. It eats tires and is fun to run the streets in. I like my cousins setup, race the auto for E.T. and serious street draggin'. Run the standard for fun. I don't plan on draggin myself. I just want to put an intercooled ATI procharger on mine so I have to rotate the tires every 1,000 miles and replace them every 10,000 miles. Ha ha... Well, I got a lot to learn. You all keep posting so I can have more fun with my new Mustang. Have a good one everybody. |
Sure autos are nice,
but the Ford autos kinda suck. I had an AOD in a 98 v6 and yeah, I would beat just about anything with the approximate engine size, other than an Extreme, but it gets boring... Long highway drives from Lawton Oklahoma to Galveston Texas... 500 miles... gets boring in an auto. Plus, from a street racer's point, autos are easier to drive while the almighty stick demands accurate shifting or the great grinding. I can tell you missing a speedshift sucks. I've lost many a races due to misshifting.. But I've only been driving a stick for 9 or so months... **** the autos. Get a stick. :D But no bashing intended. |
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Yay. Thanks, DoranW |
Well, having a V6 mustang was the problem, not the auto trans.... The V6 makes no power unless you go forced induction on it..... Ford and Chevy should never have made V6 versions of Mustang/Camaro/Firebird, why buy a V6 sports car like this.... It would be like buying a 4cyl Viper. You can have your 5spds, I will keep my 4R70W... As for them sucking, they don't... I had a T700 Auto in my truck(Chevy). That truck had a 420HP/420TQ Corvette Roller Engine, and all kinds of other goodies.... I could never keep the tranny in it, I kept blowing it into pieces....little pieces. Every 5spd mustang I know of in this area, has one problem.... broken gears, broken synchros, broken tranny... I have helped one guy put in 5- Tremec 5spds over the course of 2 yrs..... I have yet to break my auto, and believe me, I put it through hell..... It's factory and has 90K miles on it, and hasn't so much as slipped wrong yet......... So, obviously, autos don't suck.....(niether do 5spds)
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---Forgot to add this--
What I was getting at with the Auto in my truck was... It was a Chevy Auto, and all I had were problems, My Ford 4R70W has never given me any problems...... ---sorry, forgot to post it.... |
Although I am dying for my T5, my AOD has been really reliable. 112k and no signs of anything being on its way out. I am not THAT hard on it though. And the previous owner was a middle-aged lady :).
WTF was the deal with the 5-tremec guy? Making tons of power, or just retarded? Thanks, DoranW |
I think he had gremlins in the tranny.... or in the head... I know the first one was done on purpose... The tech from Tremec that sold it to him made the mistake of saying "You can't break this transmisson" ----so the wrong thing to say..... Well, about a week of 5000 RPM 2nd Gear dumps from a dead stop, and roasting the tires bald, and that first tranny was a very expensive, very heavy boat anchor.... As for the others, one was annhiliated at the track, one on the street, one was just junk (bad build), and the other met it's fate at the hands of a noob driver...... RIP Tremecs, you paid the ultimate price cause of reckless driving.
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Those of you who say that all autos are slusbox's haven't experienced the 4R70W. This is the hardest shifting auto I've driven and it is very good at putting power to the ground.
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The 4R70W really isnt that bad. I don't know if it shifts that hard but I was able to get the tires to chirp once on the 1-2 shift, and that was with out a shift kit and going through the gears manually. I havent ever been able to do it again but oh well. Overall though, I'd rather have a 5 or 6-speed anyday. Its just so much fun an the only manuals I've ever driven was a Jeep and my friends Civic SI...I can only imagine how much fun it would be in a Mustang.
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Don't know if the 4R70W is junk or not. Stock Mustang's are still losing 1/2 sec in the 1/4 mile with the auto. GM's auto's perform nearly the same as their 6spds.
Until Ford releases an auto that performs near the stick, and it reliable to boot, it's an obvious choice. |
manual
Bracket Racing: I would run an auto for consistency
Heads up Racing:manual fun factor only reason |
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It is only cool to drive an auto if you know how to drive a stick!
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Will ps - i have an 03 GT, what auto does it come w/ from the factory? |
Stick VS. Auto?
Theres too many variables in this question for someone to try and say how one is better... Its like most other things in life, there is a balance to everything... if a manual or an auto were so much better than each other then one would be the only choice... sort of like a shortcut or a highway... theres something difficult about the shortcut otherwise it would be the way...
On the technical side Manuals only lose about 15% of the power through the driveline... Auto's About 25% ...Approximately... not to mention manuals weight less, they cost less, and they are more fun... thats odd isn't it? :confused: :D Personally I like a manual, I wouldn't ever have anything but a manual in a sports car unless i was a serious drag racer. Theres very few things in life that excite me like ripping through the gears of a Manual Sports car with some loud exhaust. Speaking of which here is something kinda cool for all you stick fellas... Ripping Through The Gears Its Summer and You’re sitting on a sunlit back-road with the windows down and the gentle breeze blowing across your face. You reach down and grab the key as you press the clutch in firmly. As you turn the key to the on position, you hear the fuel pump arm as it fills the fuel lines as if it were the cars heart. You gently turn the key one last notch and your exhaust's thunderous Roar permeates the air, as if it were thunder from the heavens. As the engine nears idle speed, you can feel the deep loping rumble of your exhaust in your chest as it seems hard to breathe. The excitement fills your whole body as adrenaline begins to pump and you can feel your blood rushing through your veins. You close your eyes and rev the motor and feel the power vibrating through the floor board into your feet. You then look out across this back road in awe, for in its emptiness is freedom. You reach down and grab the shifter and pull it back into the neutral, then knock it twice against the transmission wall for luck and return it to first gear. You take one last look into the rear view mirror, and then rev the motor to 4,000 RPM and dump the clutch. Your rear tires begin to squall and blister the pavement as they fumigate your fender wells with white fluffy voluptuous smoke. You look up as your tach does its ritualistic dance through the RPM range and nears it’s redline. As you are pushed back into the seat, you notice your tires are beginning to regain traction, for their squalling has slowed to an erratic chirp as the limited slip distributes power between the wheels. The speedometer begins to move faster and faster as your shift light flashes in your eyes. You quickly press in the clutch and without letting off the gas you snatch the shifter violently back into second gear and release the clutch. You feel the acceleration of the car exceed that of your body’s, as you’re jerked viciously into the seat, while the rear tires then burst loose from the pavement for a second while the tires play catch-up with the drivetrain. The S-K-I-R-K-I-R-K sound echoes through the blur of passing trees as the tach once again does its dance towards the redline. Your exhaust, screaming at wide open throttle, saturates the landscape around you with it's heavenly chorus. You take a firm hold on the shifter and as the shift light flares up you swiftly, in one precise motion, press the clutch and ram the shifter into third gear without letting off the gas. You instantly release the clutch, and as the tires chirp you look down at the speedometer which is promptly approaching 115MPH. With the Stampede of American V8 Horsepower consuming your every thought, adrenaline takes your mind and body into overdrive. As you press in the clutch, rip the shifter back to fourth gear, and dump the clutch you feel more alive than ever. The speedometer jumps as the clutch is depressed and approaches 120, 130, 140, 150, and 155MPH. Your whole life flashes before your eyes as if your in a dream or state of bliss. You release the gas pedal and begin to slow down. Your knees are shaking and your hands are cold and sweaty. You’ve got a grin on your face like a child has at Christmas. What is all this to you? Some say freedom, some say bliss, some say paradise, some say other things. I say its all of the above. |
Snake, you are the greatest. I love this guy. You should be writing for MMFF!!!
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What Snake is realling trying to say is that if you drive an automatic, his story would go something like this:
"You put the key in the ignition, turn the key and the car starts! You check your makeup in the mirror and then press the little thingy on the floor and the car goes." |
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Will |
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