cam seized

[9899musl]

http://www.nmraracing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44002

[bigwhitecobra]

What in the world???

That's a new one on me....a cam siezing cause it was too tight? WTF are they smoking? IF the cam was torqued properly, reguardless of wether the followers were in or not, it should have been fine. I recommend installing the followers after the cam is tight, but have never heard any different. Wow. Just wow. Some one got screwed.

There is definately something amiss in that head. i would take it to a "professional" and see what they could find as to a cause. Sorry to hear that though.

[9899musl]

Originally Posted by bigwhitecobra

What in the world???

That's a new one on me....a cam siezing cause it was too tight? WTF are they smoking? IF the cam was torqued properly, reguardless of wether the followers were in or not, it should have been fine. I recommend installing the followers after the cam is tight, but have never heard any different. Wow. Just wow. Some one got screwed.

There is definately something amiss in that head. i would take it to a "professional" and see what they could find as to a cause. Sorry to hear that though.

Thanks for the reply,this company i bought these heads from are supposed to be professionals,somebody dropped the ball and from what im being told it sure wasnt me.
All this damage is being blamed on a bad spring which cant see how,the valvetrain is completly in tack and in fact this company wants to reuse the valve again?
I just dont think i should pay for something that wasnt my fault!

[bigwhitecobra]

After having talked to you, and hearing what has happened, I will be sure to not let that happen to anyone I know. I will be letting several key persons know of the company that is responsible for this. I am truely sorry that this has happened to you and wish you all the luck in the world in getting your situation corrected. if you have a need in the future, I will be glad to assist you in anyway that I can.

Thanks for calling me and leting me know of this situation.

[9899musl]

Originally Posted by bigwhitecobra

After having talked to you, and hearing what has happened, I will be sure to not let that happen to anyone I know. I will be letting several key persons know of the company that is responsible for this. I am truely sorry that this has happened to you and wish you all the luck in the world in getting your situation corrected. if you have a need in the future, I will be glad to assist you in anyway that I can.

Thanks for calling me and leting me know of this situation.

Your welcome and i appreciate you spending the time to talk i will be in touch to let you and everyone else know what transpires.

p.s. send me an e-mail im having a hard time post ing on your website!

[Unit 5302]

The valve springs are incapable of creating this problem unless the incorrect springs were installed. Even if they were incorrect, i'm not sure that something else in the valvetrain wouldn't have broken before the camshaft seized, not to mention the valve springs would have caused the camshaft to immediately seize rather than seizing 1500mi into useage.

There is a tremendous amount of force necessary to stop a rotating object like that.

Again, installing the camshaft with improper torquing should have seized the cam immediately, not 1500mi later. I agree that an oiling issue would be more likely, but even so, 1500mi is more than I would have expected there, too. I suppose a cam that was improperly installed resulting in a bend could tend to bend further over time, finally resulting in a seize.

Even though the aftermarket parts do not necessarily come with a warranty, the engine builder is most definitely feeding you a line of crap, and they should stand behind the (faulty in this case) work they performed.

[9899musl]

Originally Posted by Unit 5302

The valve springs are incapable of creating this problem unless the incorrect springs were installed. Even if they were incorrect, i'm not sure that something else in the valvetrain wouldn't have broken before the camshaft seized, not to mention the valve springs would have caused the camshaft to immediately seize rather than seizing 1500mi into useage.

There is a tremendous amount of force necessary to stop a rotating object like that.

Again, installing the camshaft with improper torquing should have seized the cam immediately, not 1500mi later. I agree that an oiling issue would be more likely, but even so, 1500mi is more than I would have expected there, too. I suppose a cam that was improperly installed resulting in a bend could tend to bend further over time, finally resulting in a seize.

Even though the aftermarket parts do not necessarily come with a warranty, the engine builder is most definitely feeding you a line of crap, and they should stand behind the (faulty in this case) work they performed.

The engine builder or the company i bought the heads from

[Unit 5302]

The head builder (not engine builder) They installed the camshafts, and they should have found any problems at that point. If a valve spring was a problem, they should have seen it right then, but like most people are telling you, it's not a valve spring. It's unlikely that any parts caused the issue as the parts should have been checked when they were put together.

Sorry, I didn't read the linked thread quite well enough.

[9899musl]

Originally Posted by Unit 5302

The head builder (not engine builder) They installed the camshafts, and they should have found any problems at that point. If a valve spring was a problem, they should have seen it right then, but like most people are telling you, it's not a valve spring. It's unlikely that any parts caused the issue as the parts should have been checked when they were put together.

Sorry, I didn't read the linked thread quite well enough.

No problem i got a little confused there, but yes they should have checked everything before they sent the heads out to me thats what i payed for,i shouldnt have to check a well known companys work especially with there reputation

[bigwhitecobra]

No offence to you, but I always check behind everybody. I even check behind the guys at the shop here. It's annoying, and God bless the for having patience with me, but it makes me feel better about what I am doing, you know? Hell, I don't even trust myself. I check behind everyone and anyone.

Ok, I'm done, sorry for the Soap box trip.......

[9899musl]

Originally Posted by bigwhitecobra

No offence to you, but I always check behind everybody. I even check behind the guys at the shop here. It's annoying, and God bless the for having patience with me, but it makes me feel better about what I am doing, you know? Hell, I don't even trust myself. I check behind everyone and anyone.

Ok, I'm done, sorry for the Soap box trip.......

That ok thanks for the reply,your right now that i know i should have checked everything but its kinda to late now the damage has been done so i think its time for them to fess up and fix the problem at no cost to me ,dont you agree?

[ivy95gts]

Originally Posted by bigwhitecobra

and God bless the for having patience with me, but it makes me feel better about what I am doing, you know? Hell, I don't even trust myself. I check behind everyone and anyone.

Ok, I'm done, sorry for the Soap box trip.......

Yea... now if only we could get you to use spell check you'll be perfect... you know.. minus the perfect part of course Well, at least after the 3 day nightmare my car posed the cam install was a perfect success... Sorry to hear about that man... hell, sometimes you gotta take the extra time to check things... I guess that's why my jobs always take twice as long to complete But who am I to talk, everyone makes mistakes... I just hope someone takes responsibility for it and covers it...

[Unit 5302]

And I tear town crate motors I purchase too.... er, no I don't. Purchase crate motors that is (unless the junkyard counts as a crate motor supplier )

The issue I see is that if you start tearing things apart when you get them, the manufacturer or assembler is certainly going to blame you for any problems you find. Not to mention the reason you purchase from them is that they are supposed to be experts in their field, and maybe the purchaser isn't such an expert.

[9899musl]

Originally Posted by Unit 5302

And I tear town crate motors I purchase too.... er, no I don't. Purchase crate motors that is (unless the junkyard counts as a crate motor supplier )

The issue I see is that if you start tearing things apart when you get them, the manufacturer or assembler is certainly going to blame you for any problems you find. Not to mention the reason you purchase from them is that they are supposed to be experts in their field, and maybe the purchaser isn't such an expert.

This is the reason why i never touched the heads,i shouldnt have to,these company i bought the heads off of are supposed to be experts at race heads and motors,i have never heard of taking apart a crate motor when you get it that kinda defeats the purpose doesnt it

[Jeff Chambers]

Don't get me wrong, but let me play the devil's advocate here. The well known company that you bought the heads from may not be at fault, you and your engine builder may not be at fault. Let me ask a few questions here, just to interject a little more thought into the matter.

- Where was the crank when the heads were set and torqued down?
- What kind of assembly lube was used at assembly and prior to start up?
- What kind/viscosity of oil were you using when the cam siezed?
- What was the engines oil pressure when the cam siezed?
- Was the shortblock assembly thoroughly washed before assembly?
- Did you do any break-in on the entire finished engine?
- Have you cut the oil filter apart to inspect it since the failure occured?
- Did your engine builder check the cam journal torquing at engine assembly?
- Why didn't it fail immediately upon start-up, why 1500 miles in?

What I'm trying to say here is that there are a million variables involved here and the company you bought the heads from may not be any more responsible than you yourself are. Just be careful about trashing their reputation publicly since there is no definitive evidence that their actions led to the failure any more than there is that your actions may have led to the failure. When it comes to performance parts and racing, there are no guarantees. Plain and simple, crap will happen and if you're going to get into the game you have to prepare yourself to accept it. I will temper that thought though....if there is proof beyond reasonable doubt that their actions cause the failure then you are indeed entitled to some sort of restitution even if its only the company providing you with another head of equal value. Otherwise, just because you have a few people that you've talked to that think Company A is at fault, and that you can find some simpathy on a few message forums, really doesn't hold any water in a court of law or an intellegent court of public opinion. My advice, as a long time racer and a performance shop owner, is to work with everyone involved in a very cordial fashion. If together you can fix the problem and all walk away a friends, there's much more value in that than there is in the cost of 1000 heads.

Just some food for thought.

[9899musl]

Originally Posted by Jeff Chambers

Don't get me wrong, but let me play the devil's advocate here. The well known company that you bought the heads from may not be at fault, you and your engine builder may not be at fault. Let me ask a few questions here, just to interject a little more thought into the matter.

- Where was the crank when the heads were set and torqued down?
- What kind of assembly lube was used at assembly and prior to start up?
- What kind/viscosity of oil were you using when the cam siezed?
- What was the engines oil pressure when the cam siezed?
- Was the shortblock assembly thoroughly washed before assembly?
- Did you do any break-in on the entire finished engine?
- Have you cut the oil filter apart to inspect it since the failure occured?
- Did your engine builder check the cam journal torquing at engine assembly?
- Why didn't it fail immediately upon start-up, why 1500 miles in?

What I'm trying to say here is that there are a million variables involved here and the company you bought the heads from may not be any more responsible than you yourself are. Just be careful about trashing their reputation publicly since there is no definitive evidence that their actions led to the failure any more than there is that your actions may have led to the failure. When it comes to performance parts and racing, there are no guarantees. Plain and simple, crap will happen and if you're going to get into the game you have to prepare yourself to accept it. I will temper that thought though....if there is proof beyond reasonable doubt that their actions cause the failure then you are indeed entitled to some sort of restitution even if its only the company providing you with another head of equal value. Otherwise, just because you have a few people that you've talked to that think Company A is at fault, and that you can find some simpathy on a few message forums, really doesn't hold any water in a court of law or an intellegent court of public opinion. My advice, as a long time racer and a performance shop owner, is to work with everyone involved in a very cordial fashion. If together you can fix the problem and all walk away a friends, there's much more value in that than there is in the cost of 1000 heads.

Just some food for thought.

Thanks for the reply,PM sent!