The Great Debate - Page 2

blue00gt · 04-30-2002, 03:48 PM

I love the manual because it is the only way to go for the twisties. An auto car with the same driver could never keep up unless the auto tranny can rev-match on downshifts.

Isamu29 · 04-30-2002, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rice Hunter
Hey thanks! I'll check that stuff out as soon as my boss leaves ! I wouldn't mind being about to shift a little better!

Yeah no prob... at first I thought u were being really sarcastic like some of the poeple have been here.... but u werent so its all good. Good luck and for autocrossing you really should only use manual anywaz unless you want ure auto fluid to foam out heh but all it means is that ure having lots of fun.... but like the last guy to post said unless you have a programable auto tranny id like to see autos match downshifts of manual for curves.... oh well itll probably be done with the way autos are changing. heh but well anyone can drive in a strait line some poeple just shift faster and others just have a more souped car...... OH and Rice Hunter I dont laugh at anyone cuz im the bigest moron when it comes to technical stuff on cars..... ive always concentrated more on smooth up and downshifting and quick curves......

Oh and somthing to think about you can waste your money on your making your car superfast or training yourself.... investing in yourself is always better cuz anyone can make a car fast but being quick is more important.....

Thanks agian

Isamu

Rice Hunter · 05-01-2002, 06:57 AM

Nah, sarcasm is over-rated. The more sarcastic you are, the more people are less likely to believe you when you are telling the truth. I really do appreciate the help! I get a kick out of this forum, (kinda keeps me from working too hard

). Someday I would like to get into one of those high performance driving schools. That would be such a rush, and would make me a better driver. I agree. You can get any chump in a suped up car, but it's another thing to drive it well!

wade73 · 05-02-2002, 04:57 PM

From a purist standpoint, the only way to go is a stick in any performance car, be it a Mustang or BMW...I spend more time playing on the curves than the straights in mine. Donuts are alot more fun as well

I just dont think that an auto has a place in any racing application, even drag racing. I am not saying it doesnt take skill to run an automatic down the 1320, but lets face it: once you get to know your car, the track, and know what your car will do in the environmental conditions its in, it really isn't too difficult to powerbrake it to a certain rpm, then floor it when tree lights green. all you have to do is keep the nose of the car pointed straight. a five speed is much harder to master in a racing situation, thus more rewarding when you do it right.

the plus side is that manual is cheaper to work on if you break it. it saps less power. the downside is in traffic, and the day i feel so lazy i dont want to shift so i ride around in 2nd and 3rd gear all day long

98SteedaGT · 05-02-2002, 05:06 PM

Not sure where all this Auto bashing is coming from... but, you five speed people aren't above automatics... and yes they do have a place in drag racing, I don't care how fast you are, a human being can not shift as fast or accurately as a machine... As far as the curves go, I don't have any problems leaving puny 5spds in the dust..... You just have to have money to make the auto run fast, which isn't a problem for me....

wade73 · 05-02-2002, 05:38 PM

since when is having an opinion different than yours considered bashing?? i was in no way bashing automatics, and it has nothing to do with money. i just said it takes more skill to drive a 5 speed well in a racing situation (any situation for that matter), rather than having a computer decide for you. with the exception of a turbocharged car (you dont have to wait for the backpressure to spool the turbo as long - ALOT less lag), a person that is skilled in a manual will beat an automatic everytime, hands down....with the possible exception of the guy that has the blue stang with the massive hood on it

but if you really want to start "bashing" with smart@$$ comments, be my guest. all it does is reek of immaturity. one would think these forums was a place for likeminded individuals to discuss/debate topics regarding something we all love... apparently, anyone who has a different opinion from someone else is flaming/bashing/whatever

Turbo99GT · 05-02-2002, 08:49 PM

I don't believe Wade73 was bashing at all. I agree with the comments regarding a manual being more fun and it requiring more skill to drive in racing applications. I went with the automatic because I new it was much stronger from the factory and I'm not a good stick driver. I wonder how many T-45s and clutches the turbo would have destroyed by now. The technology has changed quite a bit with automatics causing them to use less power than before to work. Must of the powerloss happens as a result of an unlocked converter. Most computer controlled automatics, including the 4R70W, can apply a percentage of lockup clutch causing less slip and more power to the ground. Torque multiplication is another story. Remember, it's easy driving a manual when you are making decent power, but try it with 500-600+ rwhp. If you don't kill yourself first, your trapspeeds will be awesome but the ET will be lousy unles you spend a ton of time at the track.

Snakeman · 05-02-2002, 09:04 PM

if your battery is dead, you can still (or at least you used to be able to) push start the car and be on your merry way if you have a manual tranny...

try push starting an auto...

I prefer a manual transmission, personally!

SLOW 97 · 05-03-2002, 08:39 AM

Actually, you can push start an auto. It's tricky but my dad and I did it on this POS truck my grandpa had. As far as fun goes, shift your auto manually, it's not as fun but as for as durability and consistentcy goes autos are best.

GaryDawg · 05-07-2002, 06:39 PM

I had a '97 V6 coupe (auto) before my current GT (manual)... I loved that car but I was always putting my hand down to shift... I told myself next time it was going to be a V8 and a manual. Now I have that V8 that's a five speed and I enjoy it much more. It feels way more "sporty" but.... I will admit... I have missed a shift when street racing and it is really embarrassing!

I love being able to run at higher RPMs if I want to... (lot's of times I will cruise by the competition at around 3000 - 3500 rpms just so I am sure they can hear me and for them to know that I'm ready to jump...!)

Freddie · 05-08-2002, 10:37 AM

Why anyone would want the antique manual transmission in a modern computerized car is beyond me.

wade73 · 05-08-2002, 01:14 PM

one word: FUN

wjfawb0 · 05-08-2002, 09:39 PM

Hey all, I just bought my first Mustang. I have wanted one for a long time. Now I got the job and money so I did it. I bought a 2002 GT Coupe. I had the paper work filled out and was ready to sign on the dotted line for the auto when I thought, "stop...the oracle said this would happen...I have to make a choice..." so I said hold on buddy, lets go with the 5 speed. I am glad. In my old auto truck I had before, I hated not having control over the gears. I am glad I bought the 5speed. For around town driving and street fun, I love the 5 speed.

My cousin has two mustangs. An auto 91 hatchback with transmission works galore and a 331 or 332(can't 'member) cubic inch block with a centrifugal blower that should runs 10 second quarters. Ran 11.2 seconds with only 6lbs of boost last weekend. He also has a 1985 mustang, 5 speed, 5.0 with work, CARBURETOR that he uses as his daily driver. It eats tires and is fun to run the streets in.

I like my cousins setup, race the auto for E.T. and serious street draggin'. Run the standard for fun. I don't plan on draggin myself. I just want to put an intercooled ATI procharger on mine so I have to rotate the tires every 1,000 miles and replace them every 10,000 miles. Ha ha... Well, I got a lot to learn. You all keep posting so I can have more fun with my new Mustang. Have a good one everybody.

Los · 05-08-2002, 10:06 PM

Sure autos are nice,
but the Ford autos kinda suck.
I had an AOD in a 98 v6 and yeah,
I would beat just about anything with the approximate engine size, other than an Extreme, but it gets boring...
Long highway drives from Lawton Oklahoma to Galveston Texas... 500 miles... gets boring in an auto.
Plus,
from a street racer's point,
autos are easier to drive while the almighty stick demands accurate shifting or the great grinding.
I can tell you missing a speedshift sucks.
I've lost many a races due to misshifting..
But I've only been driving a stick for 9 or so months...

**** the autos.
Get a stick.

But no bashing intended.

Sonics2042 · 05-09-2002, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Los

**** the autos.
Get a stick.

Damn straight

. That's what I am doing. I am in the process of converting to a T5. Only big thing left to buy is the bellhousing

.

Yay.

Thanks,
DoranW

98SteedaGT · 05-10-2002, 12:26 PM

Well, having a V6 mustang was the problem, not the auto trans.... The V6 makes no power unless you go forced induction on it..... Ford and Chevy should never have made V6 versions of Mustang/Camaro/Firebird, why buy a V6 sports car like this.... It would be like buying a 4cyl Viper. You can have your 5spds, I will keep my 4R70W... As for them sucking, they don't... I had a T700 Auto in my truck(Chevy). That truck had a 420HP/420TQ Corvette Roller Engine, and all kinds of other goodies.... I could never keep the tranny in it, I kept blowing it into pieces....little pieces. Every 5spd mustang I know of in this area, has one problem.... broken gears, broken synchros, broken tranny... I have helped one guy put in 5- Tremec 5spds over the course of 2 yrs..... I have yet to break my auto, and believe me, I put it through hell..... It's factory and has 90K miles on it, and hasn't so much as slipped wrong yet......... So, obviously, autos don't suck.....(niether do 5spds)

98SteedaGT · 05-10-2002, 12:29 PM

---Forgot to add this--

What I was getting at with the Auto in my truck was... It was a Chevy Auto, and all I had were problems, My Ford 4R70W has never given me any problems......

---sorry, forgot to post it....

Sonics2042 · 05-10-2002, 12:30 PM

Although I am dying for my T5, my AOD has been really reliable. 112k and no signs of anything being on its way out. I am not THAT hard on it though. And the previous owner was a middle-aged lady

.

WTF was the deal with the 5-tremec guy? Making tons of power, or just retarded?

Thanks,
DoranW

98SteedaGT · 05-10-2002, 12:37 PM

I think he had gremlins in the tranny.... or in the head... I know the first one was done on purpose... The tech from Tremec that sold it to him made the mistake of saying "You can't break this transmisson" ----so the wrong thing to say..... Well, about a week of 5000 RPM 2nd Gear dumps from a dead stop, and roasting the tires bald, and that first tranny was a very expensive, very heavy boat anchor.... As for the others, one was annhiliated at the track, one on the street, one was just junk (bad build), and the other met it's fate at the hands of a noob driver...... RIP Tremecs, you paid the ultimate price cause of reckless driving.

SLOW 97 · 05-13-2002, 08:45 AM

Those of you who say that all autos are slusbox's haven't experienced the 4R70W. This is the hardest shifting auto I've driven and it is very good at putting power to the ground.

04-30-2002, 03:48 PM	#21
blue00gt Mustang Addict Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 1,294	I love the manual because it is the only way to go for the twisties. An auto car with the same driver could never keep up unless the auto tranny can rev-match on downshifts. __________________ Strike down the unroadworthy! 2000 GT Atl. Blue: '03 Cobra motor - 465rwhp/473rwtq, T-56 6-speed, full MM TA/PH & tubular K-member suspension, Saleen body, 17" Torq-Thrust II's, M/T ET Street radials, and lots more '94 Rio Red Cobra: All the bolt-ons, 3.73s

05-01-2002, 06:57 AM	#23
Rice Hunter Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The special place in your heart Posts: 388	Nah, sarcasm is over-rated. The more sarcastic you are, the more people are less likely to believe you when you are telling the truth. I really do appreciate the help! I get a kick out of this forum, (kinda keeps me from working too hard ). Someday I would like to get into one of those high performance driving schools. That would be such a rush, and would make me a better driver. I agree. You can get any chump in a suped up car, but it's another thing to drive it well! __________________ Scott 453.9rwhp 387trq Lots of fun Convertible Penn State University Temple University School of Medicine (start August 27th )

05-02-2002, 04:57 PM	#24
wade73 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mobile, Al Posts: 108	From a purist standpoint, the only way to go is a stick in any performance car, be it a Mustang or BMW...I spend more time playing on the curves than the straights in mine. Donuts are alot more fun as well I just dont think that an auto has a place in any racing application, even drag racing. I am not saying it doesnt take skill to run an automatic down the 1320, but lets face it: once you get to know your car, the track, and know what your car will do in the environmental conditions its in, it really isn't too difficult to powerbrake it to a certain rpm, then floor it when tree lights green. all you have to do is keep the nose of the car pointed straight. a five speed is much harder to master in a racing situation, thus more rewarding when you do it right. the plus side is that manual is cheaper to work on if you break it. it saps less power. the downside is in traffic, and the day i feel so lazy i dont want to shift so i ride around in 2nd and 3rd gear all day long __________________ 98 GT - Usual "Get in, sit down, shut up and HANG ON"

05-02-2002, 05:06 PM	#25
98SteedaGT Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 330	Not sure where all this Auto bashing is coming from... but, you five speed people aren't above automatics... and yes they do have a place in drag racing, I don't care how fast you are, a human being can not shift as fast or accurately as a machine... As far as the curves go, I don't have any problems leaving puny 5spds in the dust..... You just have to have money to make the auto run fast, which isn't a problem for me.... __________________ // 1998 GT-Steeda Conversion \\ -- Sold // Now own 2001 F-150 SuperCrew 5.4L \\

05-02-2002, 05:38 PM	#26
wade73 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mobile, Al Posts: 108	since when is having an opinion different than yours considered bashing?? i was in no way bashing automatics, and it has nothing to do with money. i just said it takes more skill to drive a 5 speed well in a racing situation (any situation for that matter), rather than having a computer decide for you. with the exception of a turbocharged car (you dont have to wait for the backpressure to spool the turbo as long - ALOT less lag), a person that is skilled in a manual will beat an automatic everytime, hands down....with the possible exception of the guy that has the blue stang with the massive hood on it but if you really want to start "bashing" with smart@$$ comments, be my guest. all it does is reek of immaturity. one would think these forums was a place for likeminded individuals to discuss/debate topics regarding something we all love... apparently, anyone who has a different opinion from someone else is flaming/bashing/whatever __________________ 98 GT - Usual "Get in, sit down, shut up and HANG ON"

05-02-2002, 08:49 PM	#27
Turbo99GT Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 71	I don't believe Wade73 was bashing at all. I agree with the comments regarding a manual being more fun and it requiring more skill to drive in racing applications. I went with the automatic because I new it was much stronger from the factory and I'm not a good stick driver. I wonder how many T-45s and clutches the turbo would have destroyed by now. The technology has changed quite a bit with automatics causing them to use less power than before to work. Must of the powerloss happens as a result of an unlocked converter. Most computer controlled automatics, including the 4R70W, can apply a percentage of lockup clutch causing less slip and more power to the ground. Torque multiplication is another story. Remember, it's easy driving a manual when you are making decent power, but try it with 500-600+ rwhp. If you don't kill yourself first, your trapspeeds will be awesome but the ET will be lousy unles you spend a ton of time at the track. __________________ 99 Silver GT Auto DTA Built Engine w/P&P heads, TDC Turbo (T-76), Built 4R70W, PI Multi-Disc 3200 T/C, Eaton 31 Spline Carrier, Strange 31 Spline Axles, Aeromotive 1000 HP fuel system, 66lb injectors, MSD DIS4, Accel DFI Gen VII & Mac 3" cat-back. Built by Jade Performance Best on Nitto D/Rs 11.698 @ 120.898 @ 12 psi (built block) Best on Slicks 10.922 @ 122.95 (stock longblock)

05-02-2002, 09:04 PM	#28
Snakeman Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Grass Valley, CA, USA Posts: 1,389	well... if your battery is dead, you can still (or at least you used to be able to) push start the car and be on your merry way if you have a manual tranny... try push starting an auto... I prefer a manual transmission, personally! __________________ LX ~vs~ Camaro

05-03-2002, 08:39 AM	#29
SLOW 97 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Arlington Heights,IL Posts: 231	Actually, you can push start an auto. It's tricky but my dad and I did it on this POS truck my grandpa had. As far as fun goes, shift your auto manually, it's not as fun but as for as durability and consistentcy goes autos are best. __________________ '97 Laser Red GT Coupe Stock 2V (Pulled Silencer) 4R70W Automatic Ripped off a BLISTERING 15.37@90MPH With a 2.21 60ft Just Installed- K&N Air Filter Coming Soon...... -4.10's -Flowmaster A/T or Magnapack Cat-Back

05-07-2002, 06:39 PM	#30
GaryDawg Registered Member Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 202	I had a '97 V6 coupe (auto) before my current GT (manual)... I loved that car but I was always putting my hand down to shift... I told myself next time it was going to be a V8 and a manual. Now I have that V8 that's a five speed and I enjoy it much more. It feels way more "sporty" but.... I will admit... I have missed a shift when street racing and it is really embarrassing! I love being able to run at higher RPMs if I want to... (lot's of times I will cruise by the competition at around 3000 - 3500 rpms just so I am sure they can hear me and for them to know that I'm ready to jump...!) __________________ '98 Rio Red Mustang GT 'vert (clicky) See my "User Ride"...

05-08-2002, 10:37 AM	#31
Freddie Quickest STOCK MOD Auto Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Chesterfield County, VA, USA Posts: 61	Why anyone would want the antique manual transmission in a modern computerized car is beyond me. __________________ M/M #411 13.90@98.36 2.03 60ft 3500lb race weight Silver 2001GT 4R70W auto K&N Silencer removed Magnaflow Mufflers Motorsports cc breather

05-08-2002, 01:14 PM	#32
wade73 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mobile, Al Posts: 108	one word: FUN __________________ 98 GT - Usual "Get in, sit down, shut up and HANG ON"

05-08-2002, 09:39 PM	#33
wjfawb0 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 24	Manual fun... Hey all, I just bought my first Mustang. I have wanted one for a long time. Now I got the job and money so I did it. I bought a 2002 GT Coupe. I had the paper work filled out and was ready to sign on the dotted line for the auto when I thought, "stop...the oracle said this would happen...I have to make a choice..." so I said hold on buddy, lets go with the 5 speed. I am glad. In my old auto truck I had before, I hated not having control over the gears. I am glad I bought the 5speed. For around town driving and street fun, I love the 5 speed. My cousin has two mustangs. An auto 91 hatchback with transmission works galore and a 331 or 332(can't 'member) cubic inch block with a centrifugal blower that should runs 10 second quarters. Ran 11.2 seconds with only 6lbs of boost last weekend. He also has a 1985 mustang, 5 speed, 5.0 with work, CARBURETOR that he uses as his daily driver. It eats tires and is fun to run the streets in. I like my cousins setup, race the auto for E.T. and serious street draggin'. Run the standard for fun. I don't plan on draggin myself. I just want to put an intercooled ATI procharger on mine so I have to rotate the tires every 1,000 miles and replace them every 10,000 miles. Ha ha... Well, I got a lot to learn. You all keep posting so I can have more fun with my new Mustang. Have a good one everybody. __________________ 2003 DSG Cobra 455rwhp 462rwtq

05-08-2002, 10:06 PM	#34
Los Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Lawton, OK Posts: 56	Sure autos are nice, but the Ford autos kinda suck. I had an AOD in a 98 v6 and yeah, I would beat just about anything with the approximate engine size, other than an Extreme, but it gets boring... Long highway drives from Lawton Oklahoma to Galveston Texas... 500 miles... gets boring in an auto. Plus, from a street racer's point, autos are easier to drive while the almighty stick demands accurate shifting or the great grinding. I can tell you missing a speedshift sucks. I've lost many a races due to misshifting.. But I've only been driving a stick for 9 or so months... **** the autos. Get a stick. But no bashing intended. __________________ Los If you want speed, buy a Civic. http://www.bullittzero.com/TRS3/index.php3

05-10-2002, 12:26 PM	#36
98SteedaGT Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 330	Well, having a V6 mustang was the problem, not the auto trans.... The V6 makes no power unless you go forced induction on it..... Ford and Chevy should never have made V6 versions of Mustang/Camaro/Firebird, why buy a V6 sports car like this.... It would be like buying a 4cyl Viper. You can have your 5spds, I will keep my 4R70W... As for them sucking, they don't... I had a T700 Auto in my truck(Chevy). That truck had a 420HP/420TQ Corvette Roller Engine, and all kinds of other goodies.... I could never keep the tranny in it, I kept blowing it into pieces....little pieces. Every 5spd mustang I know of in this area, has one problem.... broken gears, broken synchros, broken tranny... I have helped one guy put in 5- Tremec 5spds over the course of 2 yrs..... I have yet to break my auto, and believe me, I put it through hell..... It's factory and has 90K miles on it, and hasn't so much as slipped wrong yet......... So, obviously, autos don't suck.....(niether do 5spds) __________________ // 1998 GT-Steeda Conversion \\ -- Sold // Now own 2001 F-150 SuperCrew 5.4L \\

05-10-2002, 12:29 PM	#37
98SteedaGT Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 330	---Forgot to add this-- What I was getting at with the Auto in my truck was... It was a Chevy Auto, and all I had were problems, My Ford 4R70W has never given me any problems...... ---sorry, forgot to post it.... __________________ // 1998 GT-Steeda Conversion \\ -- Sold // Now own 2001 F-150 SuperCrew 5.4L \\

05-10-2002, 12:30 PM	#38
Sonics2042 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 381	Although I am dying for my T5, my AOD has been really reliable. 112k and no signs of anything being on its way out. I am not THAT hard on it though. And the previous owner was a middle-aged lady . WTF was the deal with the 5-tremec guy? Making tons of power, or just retarded? Thanks, DoranW __________________ What I have: 1990 Red Mustang 5.0 LX: [BBK X-Pipe]-[MAC Cat-Back Exhaust] [MAC Cold Air Intake]-[BBK Equal Shorties] [3.55 Gears]-[Cobra Intake Manifold (Upper and Lower] [E-303 Cam]-[Granetelli Mass Air Flow Sensor] [Front and rear sway bars]-[New black carpet and seats.] [Adjustable Fuel Regulator]-[T5 Conversion w/ K. Cobra Clutch/Hurst STS] [Cobra Throttle Body]-[130A Alt. Conversion] Thinking about: Aftermarket Heads! Vortech A-Trim

05-10-2002, 12:37 PM	#39
98SteedaGT Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 330	I think he had gremlins in the tranny.... or in the head... I know the first one was done on purpose... The tech from Tremec that sold it to him made the mistake of saying "You can't break this transmisson" ----so the wrong thing to say..... Well, about a week of 5000 RPM 2nd Gear dumps from a dead stop, and roasting the tires bald, and that first tranny was a very expensive, very heavy boat anchor.... As for the others, one was annhiliated at the track, one on the street, one was just junk (bad build), and the other met it's fate at the hands of a noob driver...... RIP Tremecs, you paid the ultimate price cause of reckless driving. __________________ // 1998 GT-Steeda Conversion \\ -- Sold // Now own 2001 F-150 SuperCrew 5.4L \\

05-13-2002, 08:45 AM	#40
SLOW 97 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Arlington Heights,IL Posts: 231	Those of you who say that all autos are slusbox's haven't experienced the 4R70W. This is the hardest shifting auto I've driven and it is very good at putting power to the ground. __________________ '97 Laser Red GT Coupe Stock 2V (Pulled Silencer) 4R70W Automatic Ripped off a BLISTERING 15.37@90MPH With a 2.21 60ft Just Installed- K&N Air Filter Coming Soon...... -4.10's -Flowmaster A/T or Magnapack Cat-Back

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