Answer to the 390 H.P Cobra!!!!

[Mattk1128]

I simply cannot believe that you guys are arguing about this as much as you are. No matter how fast a GM pos is, the stang will always be better. Tell me that i'm not the only one who understands this. The Mustang has been and always will be America's muscle car. Why do you think that GM is scrapping the LS-1's? It's because we're better. We brave knights are the only ones to ride the Iron Pony. Long Live the Mustang Spirit! -Matt-

[Unit 5302]

It's basically about envy. The LT-1 guys are going through the same thing the modular guys went through when the 4.6L first came out. The LT-1 get's thrashed in the 1/4 mile by the LS-1 so they all decide the LT-1 F body is a 13sec car because one out of 1000 runs a 13. If that.

Most are mid 14 cars. I don't get into the ricer philosophy of quoting the very fastest possible time for a car. 13's are not uncommon, stock, ROTFLMAO. With a good driver, lol. I love that. Yeah, there are lots of professional drivers out there that fall into the "good category," and the vast majority of LT-1 Fbody's are freaks from the factory too.

Let's see. A 1987 Mustang GT is a 13.80@100mph car because one ran that time once.

A new GT is a 13.60@102mph car because one ran that time once.

A new F body is a 12.90@108mph car because one ran that with a professional driver with a factory wringer.

I quote real world times, not ricer times. By the way, the idea 200lbs can be found in a hollow sway bar and thicker leather is a totally idiotic comment.

The 1987 Mustang GT weighs 21lbs more than a 1987 Mustang LX with the same options. It has heavier seats, and bigger ground effects. Most people think it weighs 200lbs more. LOL. This old wives tale BS is nothing more than somebody trying to make an excuse for their car being slow, or their driving being crappy.

[Doug McGinn]

Unit i suggest you watch who your calling an idiot.Its a fact not a statement made on a wim its a statement of fact.
As soon as i get some time i will send you the specs on the cars.
Do you really think a 1" steel rod weighs the same as a 3/4" steel rod? do you think a 12" brake rotor weighs the same as a 13" brake rotor?do you think a steel wheel weighs the same as an aluminum wheel?
Better do some math and homework.I will post the details ASAP.
Once again you have gone and proved how much you dont know.

Heres a quick math tutorial for you in case you forgot just to oversimplify it for your pee brain.
a can of coke weighs in at 16 oz thats equal to 1 pound,remember math class? 200 cans of coke weighs in at 200 pounds,thats 8.3 cases of soda is that really so hard to comprehend?Its not that much weight when you consider the overall weight of the average vehicle.

[FireFinder20]

I did not mean to cause so much hostility. I did state that I did not have a full tank of gas or had all of the options the car could possibly have, which did save some weight. I'm sorry I gave up my timeslips with the car, I would scan them and post them, but like I said...to see a 13.90 - 13.80 was not something out of the ordinary. Mind you, NJ is damn near sea level. Hey, I don't know for a fact how heavy the Formula is compared to a T/A, but it was always a little lighter. Yeah, I may have had a good example of my LT-1, but it sat more than it ran, so who cares. Also mind you that I am driving my 5th Ford, 4th Mustang. I had the chance to get anything under 35,000 bux which means I could have a 2001 SS Camaro right now, but I don't...that has to say something. I'm not trying to make enemies here, just talking about cars. I'm in my 30s and have spent a lot of years at the track. All you 99 - up GT hardtop guys have it good, you can get 13.90s with those cars bone stock, I've seen it done. If I can get 14.0s with a 3700-3800 lb. Convertible, I know you guys can do that.

Again my apologies...The FyreMan

[FireFinder20]

Did I mention that on the average, I saw a lot of mid 14s from those LT-1s and high 13s from the LS-1s?

[HawkCMC]

I dont understand what you mean by now after market.
www.slpeng.com
www.tbyrne.com
www.thunderracing.com
www.mmsracing.com
www.ls1speed.com
(theres more I assure you.)
As for rattling, nothing that some 200 subframes cant fix. Rearends suck, you got me there. Looks, im telling you I LOVE the looks of my car. Formula probably does weigh about 200 less dont forget the trans am has ground affects also. Lumbar weighs alot to. We do have a bigger motors, but still get the same or better gas mileage? Wish I could put true dual like you guys but ohwell cant get everything you want. Live around Northwest burbs of chicago ill let you listen to my exhaust you will not be dissappointed i promise. The SS scoop is ugly but you guys know that the WS6 is one wicked looking machine. I prefer the more subtle look of the Firehawk personnally (Biased View). Oh a 2002 Z28 most options is about 25,800 not including rebates. Put a lid, exhaust, and if you really want some gears and hello consistant 12's. Gears, headers, cam, and suspension that baby will SCREEEAAAM into high 11's. As far as noone with a blower (heres a link for you Turbo99GT http://www.tbyrne.com/projectls1.html) Give Tom a call im sure he will be glad to race you once he gets it all in tune. But as far as normal drivers, $900 for some pistons, a 9 pound blower thats 500+ REAR WHEEL horsepower. Dont worry about the bottom end our 6 bolt mains will do just fine. Come on guys whats with all the bashing? Sounds like a bunch of supra owners, "Were better because, uh because we are". I mean im a gm guy on a ford message board(rhymes by the way). So lets just concentrate a little more on eliminating rice ok??

[Unit 5302]

Originally posted by Doug McGinn
Unit i suggest you watch who your calling an idiot.Its a fact not a statement made on a wim its a statement of fact.
As soon as i get some time i will send you the specs on the cars.
Do you really think a 1" steel rod weighs the same as a 3/4" steel rod? do you think a 12" brake rotor weighs the same as a 13" brake rotor?do you think a steel wheel weighs the same as an aluminum wheel?
Better do some math and homework.I will post the details ASAP.
Once again you have gone and proved how much you dont know.

Heres a quick math tutorial for you in case you forgot just to oversimplify it for your pee brain.
a can of coke weighs in at 16 oz thats equal to 1 pound,remember math class? 200 cans of coke weighs in at 200 pounds,thats 8.3 cases of soda is that really so hard to comprehend?Its not that much weight when you consider the overall weight of the average vehicle.

I am watching who I'm calling an idiot, which is why I'm picking on you right now, hick boy. I want to make sure I got a real, true idiot.

Sway bars aren't solid, and we're not talking about can's of coke because I don't know anybody who drives around with 200 cans of coke in their car. Maybe you should switch to diet coke, which would weigh much less than regular coke. I can't give you the actual numbers off the top of my head because I've never been inclined to weigh my beverages, or coke for the people who actually drink the stuff. I remember my physics and calculus, pre-algebra boy. You got me though. The seat material is 20lbs heavier. The brakes are 10lbs heavier, and I don't know of any steel wheeled performance cars lately, if it were steel wheeled, you'd be talking a bigger 1/4 mile difference than what you'd see just because of weight, though. You see, accelerating unsprung weight is a lot harder to do than just adding a few lbs in the trunk, especially since you have to accelerate the rotational mass of the wheel. Heck though, if you think 20+10 = 200, maybe I don't even need to debate you.

200lbs is a shitload of weight in the average vehicle. You're talking over 5% of total vehicle weight, and on a Fox body Mustang, you'd be giving up over 2 tenths with an extra 200lbs on board. A pretty decent rule of thumb for the Fox is 10hp, or 100lbs equals 1 tenth and 1 mph.

Go open your book and do a comparison between a stripper car and a fully loaded car with an auto and feel justified if you want. LOL. Dumbass.

[Doug McGinn]

The examples i gave were for weight comarisons,i didnt say the GT or the Bullitt had steel wheels on it my point was not all components and parts weigh the same.I f you add up all the components that are different on the Bullit car it comes in at approx. 200 pounds heavier than the GT car.
Thats fact they did the comparison way back when they were debating if the Bullitt was going to be a farce like the 1999 cobra which didnt deliver the advertised HP.The conclusion was that you only gain 5 HP Bullit vs GT yet you added 200 pounds to the gross weight which adds up to no real performance advantage when comparing the Bullit to the GT.

[Unit 5302]

I wasn't talking about the Bullitt, but that's a bunch of BS as well. Ford's listed curb weight for the Bullitt is 3273lbs, and the GT Premium is listed the same. Ford's listed weight on the GT Base 3241lbs. Even maxxed out, the weight difference between a fully optioned GT Premium is only 32lbs. Not 200lbs. The Bullitt hardly weighs another 168lbs more than a GT Premium. If you're weighing cars on a scale there are always differences. They don't have exactly the same amount of fuel, the scale can be inaccurate. What's even more inaccurate is guestimating what parts weigh on a car. That's how the legend that the Fox GT weighs 200lbs more than the same car in an LX 5.0 body does. You know, those ground effects are pretty big, they probably add like 100lbs. Then the GT has different seats, so that's like 75lbs, and say an LX comes with no options (yeah, right) and that's like 25lbs so a GT weighs 200lbs more than an LX.

[wally6761]

ford makes some nice vehicles and engines, but so does GM.
i'm partial to the mustang right now, but you can't begin to tell me the LS1 is junk. it's right on par with the 4.8 and makes more power b/c it has more cubes. put the pipe down guys ! there is no substitute for cubic inches. (if ford is so great, why did they make those awful 70's mustangs?)

T/As and stangs are both nice.

[jax702]

Right on par with the 4.8 huh? When did ford come out with that motor? Talk about a dumbass, since u seem to think GM is so great you should stick to one of their message boards and leave the ford stuff to us seeing is how you know nothing about em!!

[jax702]

That last response to doug about the cans of coke was classic, i couldn't stop laughing. I cant wait untill he comes back with some more crap so you can shoot him down again.

[slick4_6]

16 fluid ounces and 16 ounces are 2 different things

[wally6761]

my point is that ford has to make a special edition car to keep up with an average one from gm. level of technologly has nothing to do with output. just b/c something is more complicated and/or new doesn't make it better. if the so called 'junk' LS1s keep beating the crap out of 'state of the art' 4V 4.8s (i happen to own one), maybe it's not so great. give me a legitimate thought-out reply. tell me what you know, not what you think or feel.

[jax702]

Originally posted by wally6761
my point is that ford has to make a special edition car to keep up with an average one from gm. level of technologly has nothing to do with output. just b/c something is more complicated and/or new doesn't make it better. if the so called 'junk' LS1s keep beating the crap out of 'state of the art' 4V 4.8s (i happen to own one), maybe it's not so great. give me a legitimate thought-out reply. tell me what you know, not what you think or feel.

What is with this new 4.8 liter motor you guys are talking about?
Please fill me in, I mean one guy talked about the 4.8 cobras and now another guy....I mean come u both cant be that stupid can ya?

[wjfawb0]

When I was purchasing a new car a month and a half ago, I was thinking about Lightnings, Trans Ams, SS Camaros, and 2003 Cobra Mustangs. What do they all have in common? $30,000+ price tag and 300+ HP, factory built. Well, time came to buy, I looked at a $600/month for 4 years payment and $1500 a year in insurance...

Hmmmm....I make about $50,000 a year. I'm still single. I could do it....But what about those other things in life that cost money?...Houses, women, junk......I'll go with the GT Mustang, cause I can always bolt on some suspension upgrades, work on the engine internals when I can afford to, and put a blower on it in the future. Oh, that and I have a cousin who builds F-250s so he can get me the x-plan which is 4% over A-plan price. Then add the $1500 rebate on that. OK. Oh, that and my cousin and his friends race and build mustangs. They will work on Mustangs for fun(free).

That was my thought process. I owned GM vehicles from age 15 to 23. I liked them pretty well. Cause of circumstances, low price tag, and huge aftermarket, I went Mustang GT all the way. I try not to bash most auto manufacturers. I like power. If a manufacturer can give me good power and handling in an attractive vehicle that fits my budget and needs, I'll buy it. My only real bias with cars is that I don't like front wheel drive. Cars I own need to be primary rear wheel drive. All wheel drive is fine, but I like for most of the power to go to the rear end, be it independent or solid axle. I always research expensive items before I go and buy them, though.

Cars are fun, driving kicks a**, working on them is fun until something gets screwed up...

As far as special edition to keep up thing....well, the $/HP ratio seems pretty even amongst the brands and types of cars. It depends on what you are buying for. Power, handling, looks, ergonomics, passenger room(Mustangs and Camaros suck for this), whatever your looking for. It is hard to compare apples to apples with lots of cars.

Vehicles, I like them all, wish I had one of everything. I got a Mustang GT that I like a lot, though. It keeps me occupied. Driving the mountains or speeding down the interstate...it is all good.

[jax702]

Originally posted by wjfawb0
When I was purchasing a new car a month and a half ago, I was thinking about Lightnings, Trans Ams, SS Camaros, and 2003 Cobra Mustangs. What do they all have in common? $30,000+ price tag and 300+ HP, factory built. Well, time came to buy, I looked at a $600/month for 4 years payment and $1500 a year in insurance...

Hmmmm....I make about $50,000 a year. I'm still single. I could do it....But what about those other things in life that cost money?...Houses, women, junk......I'll go with the GT Mustang, cause I can always bolt on some suspension upgrades, work on the engine internals when I can afford to, and put a blower on it in the future. Oh, that and I have a cousin who builds F-250s so he can get me the x-plan which is 4% over A-plan price. Then add the $1500 rebate on that. OK. Oh, that and my cousin and his friends race and build mustangs. They will work on Mustangs for fun(free).

That was my thought process. I owned GM vehicles from age 15 to 23. I liked them pretty well. Cause of circumstances, low price tag, and huge aftermarket, I went Mustang GT all the way. I try not to bash most auto manufacturers. I like power. If a manufacturer can give me good power and handling in an attractive vehicle that fits my budget and needs, I'll buy it. My only real bias with cars is that I don't like front wheel drive. Cars I own need to be primary rear wheel drive. All wheel drive is fine, but I like for most of the power to go to the rear end, be it independent or solid axle. I always research expensive items before I go and buy them, though.

Cars are fun, driving kicks a**, working on them is fun until something gets screwed up...

As far as special edition to keep up thing....well, the $/HP ratio seems pretty even amongst the brands and types of cars. It depends on what you are buying for. Power, handling, looks, ergonomics, passenger room(Mustangs and Camaros suck for this), whatever your looking for. It is hard to compare apples to apples with lots of cars.

Vehicles, I like them all, wish I had one of everything. I got a Mustang GT that I like a lot, though. It keeps me occupied. Driving the mountains or speeding down the interstate...it is all good.

Thank you Wjf for that lovely comentary on how you feel about performance vehicles, Im sure that will be most helpful to the people who read this board. You're opinion really matters thanx again.....not

[Unit 5302]

Originally posted by slick4_6
16 fluid ounces and 16 ounces are 2 different things

Not to point out the obvious here, but he said CAN of coke. Meaning 12oz. And 16fl oz of water weighs 16oz. Since regular Coca-Cola sinks in water, it's reasonable to assume the beverage weighs somewhat more than water, and 16oz for a 12fl oz can would be believable.

wally6761, your engine displacement is 281ci, or 4.6L. You do not have a 4.8L. I suggest you learn what kind of engine you have before you decide to debate people on it.
By the way, you obviously don't understand much about the performance capabilities of the engine. There have been guys running 11's on the stock engine DOHC 4.6L since the late 1990's. It's not a pushover, and unlike the "junk" LS-1's, (which has more to do with the crappy quality put into the car than the engines output), the 4.6L DOHC has been a proven engine to 100k. There are a lot of high mileage Cobra's out there.

wjfawb0, I happen to agree with your sentiments. Paying over 30k for a car places it out of my range. Good thing the new Mach 1 goes for $28,500, has well over 300hp, and will run 12's from the factory with drag radials. 6000 will be built. 1000 Cobra's as well. While they may be limited edition cars, Ford has been pushing the performance up on the GT in the background as well. I fully expect to see a near 300hp GT for under $25k in the next couple of years.

[MiracleMax]

Originally posted by wally6761
if ford is so great, why did they make those awful 70's mustangs?

You mean mustang II's right? (74-78 i believe, the fox body was delivered in 79)

IMO the 70 Mach 1 is one of the best looking mustangs EVER!

[MiracleMax]

I used to rag on 4.6 SOHC's quite a bit before I got my 02', but I offer this


LS1 V8 in SS trim 346 cid @ 320 = .92 hp per cid

4.6 SOHC in GT trim 281 cid @ 260 = .92 hp per cid

Not to shabby for a "base" motor. Granted I'd like to see something along the lines of 300 hp for the baby cammer (and I think Ford should try and push the envelop on 2 valve cars), still not to bad, especially considering the low compression ratio which brings a smile to my face when I hit the gas pump.