Beat by an SS !!!

07-29-2002, 03:08 PM

So I'm at the Midnight Drags at Jax Raceway (1/8 mile track) and I'm really looking forward to the races because I've got my new set of BF Goodrich Drag Radials (275/40's on 17x9 Cobra's). Last time out traction was a major problem as I had street tires (BFG's KDWS's). Major storms went through the area about an hour before race time so things are very humid and the track is slightly damp, not optimal, but dry enough to race. I get a few races under my belt, nothing great as I am consistently running 8.9 to 9.1 and my 60 foot times are about 2.4 to 2.5. I did get one run which I was very pleased with, which was an 8.537@83.05 and a 60 foot time of 1.887.

I talk to a guy with a new Camaro SS and he has street tires and claims no mods. I ask him if he wants to race and he says sure. I'm confident I should take him, especially after I had that 1.8 60 foot time. Well, was I woken up! What bothers me is how he beat me. If I had a very bad hole shot and he had a good one I could understand but that wasn't the case. We both had so-so starts, but what bothers me is he caught me in the end! I do realize if my reaction time was better I'd have won, as my ET was faster, but man was this SS moving, I mean look at his end speed, almost 88 mph in the 8th, is this normal for a stock SS?!) I've had a number of races where I get a bad start but I'm always able to catch the person I'm racing in the end (provided it's a stock car), especially when I'm racing a 1/4 mile track. But with this race I feel I might have been lucky only having an 8th of a mile track because the SS really started pulling towards the end of the 8th. I've listed the times for the race below (the track was broken for giving the 60 foot times for cars in the right lane, which is why I can't list mine). My only major mods on the car at this point are a Vortech SC (8-10 lbs of boost), complete new 2.5 exhaust system manifold bac, X-pipes and MagnaFlow mufflers. I've been to a 1/4 mile track once (Gainesville) and my best time on street tires are 13.5@105 mph. I had the X-pipes done after the SC and computer, so the car has not been tuned for the more open exhaust and I still have the stock 3.27 rearend gear. My next upgrade will be a 3.73 gear and a dynotune.

Comments on the race and the Camaro SS are appreciated (yes, I know I was sleeping at the line with an .845 reaction time, but I'm working on it!) Thanks!!!

Camaro SS Me (Mustang GT)
.733 Reaction Time .845
2.524 60 foot unknown, I'd guess 2.4 to 2.5
8.477 ET @ 594 ft 8.432
8.989 1/8 ET 8.973
87.73 1/8 mph 83.17

Hammer · 07-29-2002, 04:13 PM

Either because of the gearing (6 speeds in SSs I think), or the engine itself, an LS1 is a monster at freeway speeds.

You'll have to take the launch decisively, as in many cases, an LS1 will gain ground in the top end...

gilmoujr · 07-29-2002, 06:34 PM

Actually, I think that it may be mostly driver. How consistent are your times? I have a buddy that pulls 13.5's with a nearly stock '00 GT (pulleys, T/A, Drag Radials, Cold Air, 3.73's) - okay - not too stock but certainly not Supercharged. Heck, 8.973 1/8 ET only means about a 14 flat in the 1/4. I would say a few more trips to the track will solve that SS problem (until he gets tired of getting whooped by a Mustang - it is a cold and vicious Stang, Camaro competition). Please take no offense, I am still a novice driver, too.

07-29-2002, 07:00 PM

Both of you have confirmed a few things. The first is that the SS is a beast! The second is that one of the biggest problems is located in the drivers seat. I am very novice to drag racing, as my times vary greatly and for some odd reason my reaction times are getting worse! It seems I can't quite concentrate on two things at once.....reacting to the tree and launching under control. I either get a good reaction time and I roast the tires, or I fall asleep at the tree and get a good launch and 60 foot time. Practice, practice practice I guess.

I spoke to a pretty experienced drag racer with a '00 GT who had the same set up as your buddy and he ran an 8.4 in the 8th which I thought was very impressive (there I was with my big bad SC and all I could muster all night was a 9.1 for a best!). He had 3.73's and Nitto Drag Radials, and most importantly he was an excellent driver.

My big question is what rpm range should I be able to launch at, and then what? With my street tires I had to pretty much launch at idle, and give it only quarter pedal through 1st, and quarter to half pedal in 2nd, provided I had hooked in 1st, and then full throttle in third. With my drag radials any suggestions? I've got 275/40's, BFG's.

Thanks!

Hammer · 07-29-2002, 07:50 PM

Well, I'm by no means a 60 foot master, but I usually fall between 2.1 and 2.2 60s on 17x8 Nittos. My best was a 2.09... I know, it sucks...

Be sure to follow BFG's recommended tire pressure for the track and to heat them up to about 100 degrees. It doesn't take a HUGE smokey burnout in the water box. I usually go around the water box and give her a nice, big burnout. There have been occasions when friends with drag radials would do a water box burnout, get em' really heated, stage and the splashed water would start dripping on their drag radials...

I normally launch with anywhere between 2k and 2.5k rpm.
For me, its better to get out of the hole with some wheelspin then to bog. It's all a matter of throttle\clutch action until you find traction. Once there, rapidly give her more throttle until its time to go to 2nd. (If you slam your foot to the floorboard right as the tires grab, you may lose traction again...)

Practice, and soon that SS will be a memory...

gilmoujr · 07-29-2002, 08:30 PM

Me - '02 GT - 80mm MAF, Magnaflow
This week - Drag Radials
Week After - 3.73's

Right now, my 60ft is 2.10X through 2.15x with a best of 2.075

1/4 is about 14.3Xx at about 97.x with a best of 14.296 @ 98.00

Those times are with stock tires. I am hoping that I can get into the 1.9's on the DR's and have a 1/4 of 13.8 (after practice) @ 100.0

What I prefer is to launch at 3000 RPM and slip the clutch. It hooks and then it's WOT from there. As far as reaction (on a 500 tree) - when the third light comes on - GO. My last two passes were .550 and .514 respectively. I know what you mean about concentrating. I spent my first 20 or so passes worried about ET's and once I got somewhat consistent, I started working on my reaction - after all, the reaction means nothing to your ET.

07-29-2002, 09:03 PM

Gilmoujr - I definitely like your reasoning.....get my ET consistent then work on the reaction time. As you put it the ET has nothing to do with reaction time, so once I get good at a decent, consistent ET, which means getting my launch down pat I then can work on my reaction time. Very nice advice! I now have a practice plan! I'm off to Gainesville Raceway this Friday and I'll work on it. Thanks!

07-29-2002, 09:08 PM

Hammer - Thanks for the advice on the burnouts. That was one thing I had trouble with at Jax Raceway....they block the center between lanes so you have to drive through the water box, and to make matters worse the stagging lanes had puddles in them because of rain just before the races started. I'm going to a real drag strip this weekend (Gainesville) and they have a much better setup, so I'lldefinitely give your advice a try. Thanks!

coolie1 · 07-30-2002, 06:40 AM

thats y they call jax the mud hole

Turbo99GT · 07-30-2002, 09:02 PM

Damn, there is something wrong with this picture. I had a V2 S-trim @ 12 psi with an auto and had no problem beating and running away from stock LS1s. They usually don't run more than 108 mph trap speeds. Hell my first pass on street tires(Nitto 285/40s) and I went 8.29 @ 86.xxx 1/8th and 12.75 @ 112.xxx in 85 degree weather. On 12 psi with the turbo my car runs mid 7s @ 94 mph in the 1/8th. A Supercharged 99-Up should NEVER be pulled down upstairs by a stock LS1 unless it is tuned horribly. Are you sure he was stock? I never believe anyone so that is why I have a boost controller

07-31-2002, 04:42 PM

Turbo99Gt - Thanks for your input. I don't feel as bad now. You confirmed a few things for me. 1st is my car is running about what it should be. Your end speeds in the 8th and quarter are just a bit better than mine, and your extra boost could account for this. Secondly since you beat stock SS's consistantly, the end mph of the guy I raced (87.7 mph) make his "stock" SS definitely fishy! There were other SS's at the track and they were running 9 something's in the 8th. I just couldn't believe how he caught me in the end.

By the way did you have an intercooler with 12 lbs of boost? Any detonation at all?

MIKESHAW · 08-01-2002, 02:19 PM

yes i feel your pain. i have a fairly stock 00 gt. and my friend has a SS and he gave me the jump and a 1 car head start and still got me before 1/4 mile. the have great top end but crappy low end.

Skyman · 08-01-2002, 02:46 PM

GO get your car custom tuned and turn up the boost a little.

Theres a lot more potential in your motor.

Skyler

Dark_5.0 · 08-01-2002, 03:07 PM

Your car is fine all of your problems are in the 60ft time.

You have outgrown street tires. You need drag radials at a bare minimum. You say you estimate your 60ft to be a 2.4-2.5....That sux major @ss! Do you realize your car could pull 1.8's easy on Drag radials and that would knock a full second off of your time.

Think about it, every 1/10 off of the 60 ft is worth 1.5/10's at the end.

Your car has lots of potential.

07-29-2002, 03:08 PM	#1
apenn Guest Posts: n/a	Beat by an SS !!! So I'm at the Midnight Drags at Jax Raceway (1/8 mile track) and I'm really looking forward to the races because I've got my new set of BF Goodrich Drag Radials (275/40's on 17x9 Cobra's). Last time out traction was a major problem as I had street tires (BFG's KDWS's). Major storms went through the area about an hour before race time so things are very humid and the track is slightly damp, not optimal, but dry enough to race. I get a few races under my belt, nothing great as I am consistently running 8.9 to 9.1 and my 60 foot times are about 2.4 to 2.5. I did get one run which I was very pleased with, which was an 8.537@83.05 and a 60 foot time of 1.887. I talk to a guy with a new Camaro SS and he has street tires and claims no mods. I ask him if he wants to race and he says sure. I'm confident I should take him, especially after I had that 1.8 60 foot time. Well, was I woken up! What bothers me is how he beat me. If I had a very bad hole shot and he had a good one I could understand but that wasn't the case. We both had so-so starts, but what bothers me is he caught me in the end! I do realize if my reaction time was better I'd have won, as my ET was faster, but man was this SS moving, I mean look at his end speed, almost 88 mph in the 8th, is this normal for a stock SS?!) I've had a number of races where I get a bad start but I'm always able to catch the person I'm racing in the end (provided it's a stock car), especially when I'm racing a 1/4 mile track. But with this race I feel I might have been lucky only having an 8th of a mile track because the SS really started pulling towards the end of the 8th. I've listed the times for the race below (the track was broken for giving the 60 foot times for cars in the right lane, which is why I can't list mine). My only major mods on the car at this point are a Vortech SC (8-10 lbs of boost), complete new 2.5 exhaust system manifold bac, X-pipes and MagnaFlow mufflers. I've been to a 1/4 mile track once (Gainesville) and my best time on street tires are 13.5@105 mph. I had the X-pipes done after the SC and computer, so the car has not been tuned for the more open exhaust and I still have the stock 3.27 rearend gear. My next upgrade will be a 3.73 gear and a dynotune. Comments on the race and the Camaro SS are appreciated (yes, I know I was sleeping at the line with an .845 reaction time, but I'm working on it!) Thanks!!! Camaro SS Me (Mustang GT) .733 Reaction Time .845 2.524 60 foot unknown, I'd guess 2.4 to 2.5 8.477 ET @ 594 ft 8.432 8.989 1/8 ET 8.973 87.73 1/8 mph 83.17

07-29-2002, 04:13 PM	#2
Hammer AKA "Dr. Evil" Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: South Fork Ranch Posts: 1,721	Either because of the gearing (6 speeds in SSs I think), or the engine itself, an LS1 is a monster at freeway speeds. You'll have to take the launch decisively, as in many cases, an LS1 will gain ground in the top end... __________________ Uncle Sam "What the hell is up with all the gauges? Calling Captain Kirk, your ride awaits... Phasers on stun...."

07-29-2002, 07:50 PM	#5
Hammer AKA "Dr. Evil" Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: South Fork Ranch Posts: 1,721	Well, I'm by no means a 60 foot master, but I usually fall between 2.1 and 2.2 60s on 17x8 Nittos. My best was a 2.09... I know, it sucks... Be sure to follow BFG's recommended tire pressure for the track and to heat them up to about 100 degrees. It doesn't take a HUGE smokey burnout in the water box. I usually go around the water box and give her a nice, big burnout. There have been occasions when friends with drag radials would do a water box burnout, get em' really heated, stage and the splashed water would start dripping on their drag radials... I normally launch with anywhere between 2k and 2.5k rpm. For me, its better to get out of the hole with some wheelspin then to bog. It's all a matter of throttle\clutch action until you find traction. Once there, rapidly give her more throttle until its time to go to 2nd. (If you slam your foot to the floorboard right as the tires grab, you may lose traction again...) Practice, and soon that SS will be a memory... __________________ Uncle Sam "What the hell is up with all the gauges? Calling Captain Kirk, your ride awaits... Phasers on stun...."

07-30-2002, 09:02 PM	#10
Turbo99GT Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 71	Damn, there is something wrong with this picture. I had a V2 S-trim @ 12 psi with an auto and had no problem beating and running away from stock LS1s. They usually don't run more than 108 mph trap speeds. Hell my first pass on street tires(Nitto 285/40s) and I went 8.29 @ 86.xxx 1/8th and 12.75 @ 112.xxx in 85 degree weather. On 12 psi with the turbo my car runs mid 7s @ 94 mph in the 1/8th. A Supercharged 99-Up should NEVER be pulled down upstairs by a stock LS1 unless it is tuned horribly. Are you sure he was stock? I never believe anyone so that is why I have a boost controller __________________ 99 Silver GT Auto DTA Built Engine w/P&P heads, TDC Turbo (T-76), Built 4R70W, PI Multi-Disc 3200 T/C, Eaton 31 Spline Carrier, Strange 31 Spline Axles, Aeromotive 1000 HP fuel system, 66lb injectors, MSD DIS4, Accel DFI Gen VII & Mac 3" cat-back. Built by Jade Performance Best on Nitto D/Rs 11.698 @ 120.898 @ 12 psi (built block) Best on Slicks 10.922 @ 122.95 (stock longblock)

08-01-2002, 02:46 PM	#13
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	GO get your car custom tuned and turn up the boost a little. Theres a lot more potential in your motor. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

07-29-2002, 06:34 PM	#3
gilmoujr Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dexter City, Ohio Posts: 60	Actually, I think that it may be mostly driver. How consistent are your times? I have a buddy that pulls 13.5's with a nearly stock '00 GT (pulleys, T/A, Drag Radials, Cold Air, 3.73's) - okay - not too stock but certainly not Supercharged. Heck, 8.973 1/8 ET only means about a 14 flat in the 1/4. I would say a few more trips to the track will solve that SS problem (until he gets tired of getting whooped by a Mustang - it is a cold and vicious Stang, Camaro competition). Please take no offense, I am still a novice driver, too.

07-29-2002, 07:00 PM	#4
apenn Guest Posts: n/a	Both of you have confirmed a few things. The first is that the SS is a beast! The second is that one of the biggest problems is located in the drivers seat. I am very novice to drag racing, as my times vary greatly and for some odd reason my reaction times are getting worse! It seems I can't quite concentrate on two things at once.....reacting to the tree and launching under control. I either get a good reaction time and I roast the tires, or I fall asleep at the tree and get a good launch and 60 foot time. Practice, practice practice I guess. I spoke to a pretty experienced drag racer with a '00 GT who had the same set up as your buddy and he ran an 8.4 in the 8th which I thought was very impressive (there I was with my big bad SC and all I could muster all night was a 9.1 for a best!). He had 3.73's and Nitto Drag Radials, and most importantly he was an excellent driver. My big question is what rpm range should I be able to launch at, and then what? With my street tires I had to pretty much launch at idle, and give it only quarter pedal through 1st, and quarter to half pedal in 2nd, provided I had hooked in 1st, and then full throttle in third. With my drag radials any suggestions? I've got 275/40's, BFG's. Thanks!

07-29-2002, 08:30 PM	#6
gilmoujr Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dexter City, Ohio Posts: 60	Me - '02 GT - 80mm MAF, Magnaflow This week - Drag Radials Week After - 3.73's Right now, my 60ft is 2.10X through 2.15x with a best of 2.075 1/4 is about 14.3Xx at about 97.x with a best of 14.296 @ 98.00 Those times are with stock tires. I am hoping that I can get into the 1.9's on the DR's and have a 1/4 of 13.8 (after practice) @ 100.0 What I prefer is to launch at 3000 RPM and slip the clutch. It hooks and then it's WOT from there. As far as reaction (on a 500 tree) - when the third light comes on - GO. My last two passes were .550 and .514 respectively. I know what you mean about concentrating. I spent my first 20 or so passes worried about ET's and once I got somewhat consistent, I started working on my reaction - after all, the reaction means nothing to your ET.

07-29-2002, 09:03 PM	#7
apenn Guest Posts: n/a	Gilmoujr - I definitely like your reasoning.....get my ET consistent then work on the reaction time. As you put it the ET has nothing to do with reaction time, so once I get good at a decent, consistent ET, which means getting my launch down pat I then can work on my reaction time. Very nice advice! I now have a practice plan! I'm off to Gainesville Raceway this Friday and I'll work on it. Thanks!

07-29-2002, 09:08 PM	#8
apenn Guest Posts: n/a	Hammer - Thanks for the advice on the burnouts. That was one thing I had trouble with at Jax Raceway....they block the center between lanes so you have to drive through the water box, and to make matters worse the stagging lanes had puddles in them because of rain just before the races started. I'm going to a real drag strip this weekend (Gainesville) and they have a much better setup, so I'lldefinitely give your advice a try. Thanks!

07-30-2002, 06:40 AM	#9
coolie1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: jacksonville fl Posts: 29	thats y they call jax the mud hole

07-31-2002, 04:42 PM	#11
apenn Guest Posts: n/a	Turbo99Gt - Thanks for your input. I don't feel as bad now. You confirmed a few things for me. 1st is my car is running about what it should be. Your end speeds in the 8th and quarter are just a bit better than mine, and your extra boost could account for this. Secondly since you beat stock SS's consistantly, the end mph of the guy I raced (87.7 mph) make his "stock" SS definitely fishy! There were other SS's at the track and they were running 9 something's in the 8th. I just couldn't believe how he caught me in the end. By the way did you have an intercooler with 12 lbs of boost? Any detonation at all?

08-01-2002, 02:19 PM	#12
MIKESHAW Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: maryland Posts: 32	yes i feel your pain. i have a fairly stock 00 gt. and my friend has a SS and he gave me the jump and a 1 car head start and still got me before 1/4 mile. the have great top end but crappy low end.

08-01-2002, 03:07 PM	#14
Dark_5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Staging lane Posts: 4,337	Your car is fine all of your problems are in the 60ft time. You have outgrown street tires. You need drag radials at a bare minimum. You say you estimate your 60ft to be a 2.4-2.5....That sux major @ss! Do you realize your car could pull 1.8's easy on Drag radials and that would knock a full second off of your time. Think about it, every 1/10 off of the 60 ft is worth 1.5/10's at the end. Your car has lots of potential. __________________ 92' LX-Big brakes, Lots and lots of suspension, GT40X heads, Ported cobra intake, stock cam, Vortech SC trim. 00' Lightning-Stock 88'CRX-13 second ego killer

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