2 big problems with 2002 GT

[apowers2k]

hi everyone, i was wondering if u guys could help me with these 2 big problems im having with my new gt. firstly, im having a ignition problem, sometimes the car does not start on the first try when i turn the key or it has a real tough time starting, u hear it trying to start, but it sometimes just doesnt do it until a few tries or it does it but u can hear the trouble it has, this has been happening alot now more and more, im gonna take it in to the dealer in 2 weeks and ***** them out, but i need help as to what the problem could be so i can get pissed and tell them off but show them that i know what im talking about and make them fix the problem. i think its something with the ignition switch cuz when starters go bad they go bad immediately, so i dont think its the starter, but any other opinions and suggestions plz will help so much. also i have a auto tranny, and for like the past 2 months, i have this problem where on a morning start most of the time when im at a complete stop at a light or anywhere and i let go of the brakes, the car kicks back and forward with a strong force, also when i shift into like the 3rd or 4th gear mostly, it jumps back and forward roughly too, if i let go of the accelerator right before it shifts it does that kicking back and forward as well, anyways, unfortunately im having these problems with a brand new car practically, im really disappointed but i hope with all your guys help and my bitching at ford, that i can get these resolved hopefully, thanks so much again everyone, take care

[Technick]

For the starting problem you have either a plugged fuel filter or the fuel pump is weak or both. Try cycling the key from off to run a couple of times before going to the crank mode. You should hear the fuel pump cycle on for 3 seconds and then go off each time you cycle the key. If cycling the key helps then chances are the by-pass in the fuel pump is bad and the system is not holding pressure, or is bleeding off pressure during key on engine cranking mode. These newer stangs, (99 up) have a returnless fuel system, in other words, there is no return line, just a feed line. Also did you know that when the engine is running that the fuel pump does not run continuesly? It cycles on and off in it's search for the proper fuel pressure to the injectors. Only at WOT is the pump usually running continuesly.
The bucking back and forth of the trans sounds like it could be excessive backlash in the trans, or the rear end or both.
Both of these problems should be taken care of under warrenty.

[blackvert00]

as far as your car not wanting to start it could also be your idle air control (IAC) valve. it sits off from your throttle body.

i've had to have mine replaced as well as many other people. when i had the problem, i would turn the ignition, the car would start, but it would stay on, it was like it was being choked out. the car would stay running if i kept the gas pedal down, but as soon as i let go, it would stop running. this was happening randomly for a few months until it just wouldn't ever crank up.

[apowers2k]

thanks for replying technick, so i turn the key off and on(not crank) positions a few times , how many seconds should i wait between each time i turn it to the on(not crank) and off position? also what does the fuel pump sound like when its cycling? thanks again,

[Technick]

Wait about 3 seconds between cycles, the pump will "HUM" you should hear it if the doors are closed and the stereo is off. it will come from the rear of the car on the inside.

[pizda]

Are you running 87 octane. Because the higher octane will create hard start conditions.
Plus fuel comapanies are changing to spring summer blend. A winter blend fuel in the spring can lead to hard start's also.
And the heat from the engine compartment can vapourize the fuel in the rails after a hot re-start.

Welcome to Ford's wonderful drivetrain.
You will always have clunking in the driveline no matter what parts are replaced. It's been engineered to do that by Ford.
Remember this is a Mustang not a Lincoln.
And the trans is assembled in Mexico. Tremec boxes are known to be very rough yet durable.
I am surprized you haven't experienced the rough cold one two shift.
Remeber the tech's at the dealer can only do so much to a car that was never really designed to be a smooth operator.

[Technick]

Fuel vaporizing in the fuel rails is almost a non issue. If this were a carberated car then you would have a point Pizda. But with fuel pressure at close to 40 psi in the rails the fuel would have to get to over 350 degrees F. to come close to vaporizing. At that temp you have other major problems besides a fuel vapor concern. Also as soon as you turn the key on, fuel pressure jumps to that 40 psi range and would eliminate any vapor concern in a matter of 1 to 2 seconds. And 92 octane fuel as opposed to 87 is also a non issue. There is not that big of a gap in the fuels resistance to burning in only 5 octane, especially in a fuel injected engine at cranking speeds. Certianally at higher rpm's it is a bigger issue as the time available for the fuel to "light off" is significatly reduced. You do have a very valid point about the "winter blend" issue. The actual time of year really has no real bearing on it other than it is the winter time that such fuel is sold. The "winter blend" has a much higher level of alcohol or methonol to cut down on emissions since in the winter time there is usually a much bigger chance of weather inversions that keep the smog in place. The other down side to the methonol or alcohol additive is that these additives tend to evaporate off at a rather high rate which leads to a drastic reduction in the octane of the fuel which can cause pre-ignition issues. That is why Ford has gone to "returnless" fuel systems as the previous systems which pressurized and then de-pressurized the fuel as it was returned to the tank tended to "boil off" the additives.

[pizda]

Well any good Ford tech would know that fuel can vapourize in the rails after a hot re-start Mr. Technick
Oh and doesn't a higher octane fuel burn slower than a lower ocatne fuel. add in low compression and you can run into long re-start issues.
Why does Ford have a sensor on the fuel rail to measure fuel temp? as well as fuel pressure ? It's there so the pcm can monitor it and raise pressure accordingly to prevent vapourization. You might wan't to verify that in the Ford Emission's manual. It's all in there! I did!
remember this is a returnless system!
You're not the only one who works at the dealer you know!

[Technick]

Really! I fuel temp sensor in the fuel rail! I personally have NEVER seen one! Where is this temp sensor? What does it look like? Is it available only in Canada? Or is the sensor somewhere other than in the fuel rail itself? Does this sensor have wires going to it, or does it send the signal to the PCM via radio waves? I have had litterly HUNDREDS of fuel rails off of the engines and have only seen other than fuel injectors and a fuel pressure regulator on return systems just metal tubing and high pressure "hose" . Maybe the metel tube itself is the temp sensor!
The point I made about the octane is valid! At cranking speeds there just is to much time available to light the fuel off for a 5 octane change in fuel burn rate to make any REAL difference. Like I said at HIGHER rpm's were the TIME to sucessfully light the fuel off is GREATLY dimminshed does the octane rating have a significant impact. Low compression is not the issue here, 9.3:1 is pretty decent for a 87 octane engine!
One other thing, it was NEVER said that this was a HOT START problem, apowers2k said the problem was on first start!
Still looking for the elusive fuel temp sensor!

[Technick]

oops! double post!

[Technick]

One last word. I never said I worked at a Ford Dealership, My profile says I am a Ford Technician, which I am, also a ASE certified Master Tech. I happen to have owned and operated my own Mustang Specialty Performance shop for the last 7 years. Before that I had over 15 years of Ford Dealership experience.
This does not mean that I claim to know it all. Far from it. The day you quit learning is the day you should die! If I am wrong I will be the first to acknowledge it and apoligize for it. I base my comments on over 24 years of almost exclusive Ford experience, most of it in the performance field. I have built 9 sec small block carberated drag cars, low 10 sec 4.6 Cobra drag cars EMISSIONS LEGAL! Over 600 RWHP thru the cats! I think that sometimes I know what I am talking about. Other times I stick my foot in my mouth. Hey we all make mistakes, the more inovative you try to be usually the more mistakes you make, but also you learn the most. It was once said that building and testing engines was bound to lead to the collection of data..... It is what we do with the data that counts! Again if I am wrong... SHOW ME! I will gladly learn from it and apoligize and move on and we will ALL learn something from it.
You know Vancouver Canada is not far from Seattle, Washington. If you have the proof I would be willing to drive up there so you can personally show me!

[pizda]

Man do you have experience! I am impressed...really!
Sorry for being a dick.
Well I guess being seven years since you pulled wrenches at the dealer has made you a little rusty on Ford's changes to fuel management.
No worries. Just go back to the Ford dealer you once worked for and ask to see the Ford Emission and Powertrain Control manual.
Look up Ford return less fuel systems. There it will give an overview of all the components and their operations. Including the operation of the fuel temp sender/elec F.P/Reg
Peace!
ps. No need to drive out to Canada either

[explicitone]

what is it someone asks a simple ? and people start flaming and and being complete jerks to each other I dont have a clue what happened in the past year that I have been off the net .It seems like everyone is picking up some things from the rice crowd.

[Technick]

Oh! Yor talking about the electronic regulator IN THE FUEL TANK! Not on the fuel rail. That is where it is. Because it is NOT on the fuel rail. The returnless system has the pump, regulator temp sensor and level sensor in the fuel tank which is all replaced as one unit when you purchase a new one from Ford. You really had me going when you said it was on the fuel rail! You should have said it was in the fuel tank. That makes sense as that is the best place to have it since the pumps operation is directly affected by the heat of the fuel. When making generalizations it is easy sometimes to misconstru what is really ment. Just like I said "I never said I worked at a Ford Dealership" I also never said that I do not work at one now! Hard to tell because I am being very "general" in my statement so you misconstrued what I said and assumed it a certian way. Not necessaraly correct is it? So in a sense we are BOTH right, in our own way. It is all in how we each "see" what the other is talking about. Next time I will ask for a clarification of what is "ment" by a particular statement before getting up on my soapbox and "preaching".

[apowers2k]

hey technick, i have tried your tactic for the past few days and the ignition problem has not reoccured, im gonna keep on trying it and see how long i go without having the ignition problem and see if your idea continues working. btw this doesnt only happen on a first start, it happens any time throughout the day, it might not happen one day and it might happen 3 times the next day, it isnt continuous, but its happening alot. when i take the car into ford what should i tell them? how do u think i should approach them about this so that they fix it and not try to put me off? also what do u think i should tell them about the auto tranny problem, the excessive kicking back and forward that its doing upon shifting? thanks again, take care, any other opinions welcomed too please

[Technick]

apowers2k:
After some extensive reasearch the last couple of days I have found that the MOST common cause is the fuel pump in the tank is going bad. Also the fuel pump monitor. Also did some looking into the factory service manuals and although there is a fuel temp sensor listed in the emmissions manual, it IS NOT used on any of the Mustangs. 70% of the time when a fuel temp sensor is mentioned it is in reference to Natural Gas vehicles. The Mustang does have a fuel pressure sensor in the fuel rail and in the fuel tank.
The dealer should be able to a fuel pressure and more importantly a
fuel volume test. They should also do a leakdown test to see if the pump or injectors are the cause of the leakdown. In other words the system does not hold or build the pressure as it should. I would also have them replace the fuel filter at the time the fuel pump is replaced.
Also checked with several Ford dealers in the area and not one of them can remember having to replace a fuel pressure sensor in the fuel rail. They all said that the most common problem is the fuel pump itself.
I was wrong in saying there was no such thing as a fuel temp sensor and got carried away in my zest in saying so. Should have done more reasearch first. But it was proven that the Mustang does not use one, at least thru 2003.
As far as the trans concern/kicking back, I would surmise that the torque converter may be bad also. This is something that you will have to have a Ford Trans Tech verify for you. If possible go for a ride with the service manager or trans tech him/herself. In a few of the Ford dealsers I checked into they may or may not have someone who is VERY knowlegable in Auto transmissions. Some ford dealers will overhaul the trans in order to repair it, other dealers do not have that capability and will just order in a new one if they are convinced that your trans does have a problem. You may want to check at a couple of Ford dealers if possible to find one that will give you the best service.
I hope that this helps you out. Will ask around today about the trans/drivetrain concern some more. If I get anymore feedbck I will let you know.

[apowers2k]

thanks technick for all your help, what does overhaul the tranny mean? what do they do in that process? is it like flushing it out or something? if they dont do it even after i ***** them out, is that something i can do myself? thanks again, take care

[Technick]

Overhauling the trans involvs taking it out of the car, completely diassembling it, replacing any worn or damaged prts, cleaning it out, new gskts, seals, bearings, bushings, ect. and reassembling it. It IS NOT something you try to do unless you are extremly well versed in the workings of auto transmissions. Also there are usually special tools required that are not readily available and the re-assembly proceedures usually call for the tighting of fasteners is inch pounds, not foot pounds as in the average engine. So much more complicated, that is why even some Ford dealers do not attempt to overhaul them, they just replace it with a factory new or remanufactured one., In other words "don't try this at home". I hope this helps some.