Stock 1/4 mile run times...
 

What did yall run before all the mods to your stangs??
I've been told to expect mid 14's... true??

Another question...
I've been told that most tracks wont let convertibles run at all, safety reasons... true??

Also.. I just removed the rubber hose that comes off the airbox and runs into the wheel well... any idea what gains I get from that?? And whats that thing called? "air silencer"?

I totally noticed a difference in throttle responce and a little more go in the low rpm's.

Next I'm gonna throw a K&N in there (waiting on a responce to my post about the airfilter oil affecting the MAF)

I do not want to replace the airbox or the pipe, but I will wrap it in Steeda heat shield material :)

Re: Stock 1/4 mile run times...
 

I'll try to answer these in order.

1) I ran 14.0 to 14.1 in my vert when it was stock.
2) You have to have a rollcage in your convertible when start turning in faster times.Really depends on the track, but you will be ok for quite a while.I think they make them do it here when you are in the 11s or 12s.
3)The piece you removed IS the air silencer.Very little gain from it, but can't hurt anything.You will hear more intake air when you give it gas though.
4)I would recommend going with some sort of cold air induction.Most come with K&N and they will give you more hp.Only an improperly oiled K&N is able to affect the MAF.K&N had a lawsuit with ford over it.Ford replaced my MAF for free.
5)Just read that you are not wanting CAI, sorry.Get the filter.

for one reason.. people dont understand that they spend all this money on the "cold air intake" that comes with a K&N airfilter..

well... it is NOT a cold air intake! it sucks air from under the hood, HOT air. The closest thing to cold air intake is just the stock system and wrapping it in heat shield and adding a K&N filter inside the stock box. However, removing the air silencer removes the cold air intake... lol

OR.. converting the hood scoop to FUNCTIONAL :)

My opinion :)

Actually the air is from the fender, not from under the hood.:D
Another thing is that it makes the airflow smoother with less bends than the stock setup

My stock stang ran mid to low 14's using a g meter at about 97 mph. With current mods (less my chip as I have not checked with it and I sent it back for re-promming) 14.1 at 99 mph. Times will vary a lot depending on altitude and weather. My best 60 ft time has been 2.1, since then my tires needed to be replaced and I have not checked on new tires (weather has not been good).

The cold air/mass air question will go on longer than any of our cars will be around. Which is better? Who really knows? With cold air, the air must make a bend from the fenderwall. This HAS to result in some sort of decreased air flow. With "mass air" the air runs from under the hood, but runs straight in...no bends but warmer air. Which makes more horse power, I think is like splitting hairs.

In my opinion, running from under the hood is probably more consistent as it is not affected as much by ambient temps. I went this route.

Want cold air and a big bang, then run nitrous. Besides adding air, nitrous drops the temp of the intake air by a bunch. The lower temps are responsible for part of the gain. Hey for $550, you can get a great entry level, safe nitrous kit. Add 25 - 150 HP at the flywheel depending on which nozzle you use.

Well I've looked at stangs that have the aftermarket intake pipe and cone filter... It has the same exact bends as the stock pipe... and it sucks in hot air from under the hood.

I still stand by this... just remove the air silencer, getting rid of the major bend in the whole system, then adding a K&N air filter inside the stock airbox.

The air entry point is still pointed AWAY from the exhaust manifold and towards the fender well.. the air there is slightly cooler.

wrap it all in heat shield and (in my opinion) you've got a better performing and cheaper intake piping system. You get the best of both.. cooler air & no bend into the fender well :)

I did all this and it made a noticeable difference.. I actually had to re-adjust my driving to not spin the tires from stops. Seriously. I am guessing atleast 8hp gain.

I dont even know what K&N says the gain should be... I'll look into it.

I'm a fan of keeping stock airbox when you can. Use the money you save from not buying a cold air kit and put it towards other parts.
One note: Some people trim their silencer so it makes the hole bigger, but still draws air from the fender. But in doing that, you're getting rid of the venturi shape thats built into the silencer. My brother has run his '99 GT many times with and without the silencer and there was no difference in times between the two. So he runs the silencer to get full benefit of cold air.

GREAT idea!!!

cut the silencer right before it starts it's big u-turn... that way you lose the bend and air restriction but it still sticks slightly into the fenderwell for the "cold air" aspect of the intake.

WOW.. learn something new everyday! I will be doing that tomorrow!

Thanks!

ok where to start

#1 I ran a 14.1@99 stock

#2 at 13.99 you will need a 4 point roll bar at most tracks(not cage cages are not needed for awhile)

#3 just do a drop in k&N (cai are junk the bend in front of the maf causes problems) and get a densecharger maf t/b pipe cost 60$ shipped plus you dont need to heat wrap that or the stock cause they dont get hot its the metal ones that need to be wrap

#4 it has been dyno proven not to add anything but noise on the old 5.0s it did 87-93 cause of the small airbox in the fender

#5 and as I said in the other thread it will not harm it you will just need to clean it every few months with elec. contact cleaner

#6 heat wrapping the stock pipe is a waste of money

Ok, I agree with all that except one thing...

After removing the air silencer there WAS a noticeable throttle responce change for the better & the tires spun easier from a stop!
No joke!

Next step is the K&N filter and the aftermarket PLASTIC pipe.
I will keep the stock airbox and MAF

it has been dynoed countless times and has shown no gains but if you at speed you might see a small gain
you have to remember the weather plays a big part in how a cars
one day it might run like a raped ape and others it seems to be sluggish and that because of temp,humid,altit.and barom. pressure

Yes I know all about weather....

This mod was done and tested in a half an hour... there was a change for the better.

I dont know much about dyno testing... but maybe it doesnt do enough to change dyno readings, but I for sure noticed better responce.

Made me smile, thats all that matters :)

im not saying it does not add a little power what i am saying is you need to be moving it add it that is why dyno testing a not shown a gain
maybe I did not explain myself very well
i am not the greatest at getting my point across on the net

hahaha.. understandable! arent we all that way sometimes?

especially when trying to reply to many many posts over & over again.. haha

Thanks again man!

but I will tell you this the best setup I have found for my car at the track
is a densechrager maf-t/b pipe and a afm powerstack filter
and it is a open filter at the track I pull my pass. side headlight out

where can I find info about the pipe??
do they have a website?

thanks :)

and have you seen the functional hood scoop plumbing yet? its very cool stuff! now thats a REAL cai !!!

give me a min and I will find the web site for you

here it is
www.densecharger.com
click on ordering
then at the top of the page click on the link that says here

it say if you already have a meter forward

Ok I checked it out.. I like how it appears stock.

I hate the rice rocket looking chrome or polished ones I've seen.

this one is cool :)

How much bigger is the bore over the stock pipe?

a lot
it is a 4in inlet

ok, next question... is it made to fit the 65mm tb?
and what if I upgrade to a 75mm tb.. how will it fit?

the pipe can only be one size, no?

it will fir either one it has a reducer insurt I think it fits up to a 80mm but not sure on that but I know my 70mm firs with no problem

and it fits the stock MAF right??

oh I got a good question for ya... the stock MAF has a screen.. it's pretty tightly weaved, I am sure that its a big restricter!

I'm thinking of taking that screen off there. Shouldnt cause harm since there is an air filter that for sure wont let anything pass through thats large enough for that screen to stop. Why is it there anyhow??

I have taken mine off and had no problems
so people have idle problems without it I would say try it and if the idle doen not start to jump then leave it off if it does put it back on

I don't beleive in these 'cold air kits'. Keep your money or get a C&L Plunum kit.

FYI, I ran 13.7 completly stock - however I did remove the headlight and silencer in front the airfilter.

Try it. I've had really good results.

cold air
 

Go to home depot and buy a flexible rubber hose and run your maf and k&n filter into your fenderwell. Too much heat sitting next to the engine, thats what i did.

That bend into the fender well is what everyone is trying to get away from. It restricts air. The best flowing is a straight (no bends or turns) air inlet duct... therefore.. bending rubber hose into the fender isn't good enough... YES it may give you the cooler air... BUT it restricts air flow. The key is to get BOTH out of the intake system...

The best fix to this that I've heard (and I will be doing it very soon) is to use the stock airbox but cut down the rubber air silencer so that it just barely makes it into the fender well opening. Put a K&N air filter inside your stock box. Remove the screen from the front of the MAF. Run an aftermarket pipe (densecharger) from your MAF to your TB.

In my opinion... the above is the best flowing CAI :)
No proof yet, but I am sure it'll give atleast 8+ rwHP
Now thats cheap and noticeable!

Jess:

Like I said before, this fenderwall vs straight issue will go on FOREVER!!! Take a look at the most recent MM&FF issue. They have been doing a monthly feature on an old, beat stang that they are fixing up as cheaply as possible. With every power change, they are documenting with dyno results.

They bought a cold air kit for about $95 with great power gains. I think they cut a hole in the fender wall and bolted a plate with a hose to it. Check it out.

You were talking about ram air also eithe in this post or another. I don't believe these things work very well unless you are up to speed like 80 mph or something like that.

Have you considered nitrous? You seem like a perfect candidate to me for the power gains that you are looking for.

One of the things that was so great about some of the older 5.0's was the low-end trq. I just don't think you will ever be able to get this from the modular engine no matter what you do, but you can get the engine in the higher rps quicker where it pulls better.

I too have a vert. Consider this, a 4.6 Stang Vert is an easy car to drive FAST and SLOW. What do I mean? Nothing like driving slow on a nice day with the top down...no worries...hearing nothing but the rumble of the exhaust and knowing that the monster can be unleashed whenever you want.

you cant compare the old 5.0 to the new 4.6 there airbox and filter were a bigger restiction as well has having a diff maf so the bend in front of it did not cause the problems thats it does with the 4.6
look at the fastest n/a(bolt on mod motored cars) they all have open filters under the hood now if that does not tell you something then what does
and im talking guys running from 12.5-11.7 with bolt ons no motor work and no power adder

Well this is all that I'm gonna do to this thing...

* Air intake silencer removed/cut **DONE
* Rear firewall lightened
* Comp Cams - Xtreme Energy (mild street/strip)
* Exhaust - Single chamber Flowmaster's (all 3" cat-back)
* K&N filters all around **DONE
* Royal Purple motor, tranny & rear end fluids
* Accufab 75mm TB & Plenum
* Densecharger TB pipe

Should be at about 318 rwHP after all that

* Shorty headers (thoughts on this anyone??? worth it or not?)

I wont be able to run it at the track (being a covertible)
But I'll dyno it :)

I hate to tell you this but there is no way in hell you will come close to 318 rwhp with those parts

at most 265-270

your trippin... the '02 4.6 2v has 265 rwHP stock

I think you should re-look at all that. The comp cam alone adds 20 rwHP!

Intake mods including the densecharger & exhaust together add another 10 hp

Royal purple fluids... 3% rwHP gain

Accufab TB & Plenum.. another gain of 11

add it up dude... not to mention all the other small things

I think you need to relook at the specs again not to be a dick
but the 99-04GT make 260 hp at the flywheel not the rear wheels
when you take into fact the drivetrain takes 15-20%(depending on 5-speed or auto) your looking at 220-230 at the wheeks

now the t/b plenum they dont make 11 rwhp they make about 6
and its a waste of over 200 going with the accufab stuff for 1hp

the fluids may show 1-3hp not percent

and the cams there is no way cams alone on stock heads and stock valve springs and stock header are going to show 20rwhp
most I have ever seen with out a bullit manifold and long tube headers is 10rwhp
so lets add this
up
motor(we will go on the high side) 230
t/b and plenum 7
fluids 5
cams 15
total 257rwhp
and thats going on the high side
plus you will need a chip to get the car to idle with the cams and dyno time to get it all working 10-15
so total 272
now with.....

headers
P&P heads
u/d pullies
meizie elec. water pump
mid pipe (off road)
then you would be looking at 300-315 rwhp
but you will need new injectors and fuel pump to have tthe fuel for that kind of power

Well if all that is true... very very upsetting!
Oh well... just means theres more research to do then.

Looks like I keep getting wrong info from people I talk to. My brother and step dad both work at a blue oval certified dealer, both manage the shop... they told me it's 265 rwHP

Will check with them again. I searched fords website, hey dont post the REAL facts about anything! Sucks.

Thanks man

the only 2v mod motor that came with over 260 crank hp was the bullit and that was 265

some people mistake crank horsepower and horsepower put to the ground as being the same and I wish it was

cause if it was then I would be over 300rwhp on motor and around 425 on spray
but I will have dyno numbers in about 1-2(both just motor abd on a 75 shot and 100 shot) weeks and new track numbers in 3 weeks

you have to take the numbers that the company says a part will make with a grain of salt
put it this way
bill p put down like 260 before cams
and that was with
bullit manifold
longtube headers
off road mid pipe
and most other bolt ons
did cams and put down 280
and that is everything minus P&P heads and going into the motor

afm did a dyno test on a lot of parts
and with every bolt on,cams,P&P heads,mid length headers and a built motor(10.5-1 compr.) they put down 323 to the wheels

I say with everything with a stock short block the most you would see and this is with one hell of a tuner is 325 rwhp

Is HP at the flywheel reffered to as "BHP" ???
Cause my mustang's spec sheet says: "260 bhp & 302ft/lbs"
Break that down for me? :)
Drivetrain takes 20% right?
Meaning I only have about 208 at the rear wheels, yeah??

I wont do heads on her... farthest I'll go into that motor is the cam covers :)

I have another question... you said getting the Accufab tb/plenum combo is a waste of the extra $200 for only 1HP
Well what should I go with then?
I want 75mm

Someone said (I believe it was you explicit) that C&L sucks!
lol

yes bhp is the same as fwhp ,I would with the c&l plenum(it these maf that sucks) and a 75mm of your choice bbk would be the best for the money


and since you have a 5 speed the drivetrain loss is more like 15%
stock with a 5 speed should put down a about 220-230 rwhp bout 275-280 rwtq

Ok I just checked out BBK's website..

The 75mm throttle body for my car says it adds 8 to 15 HP

What exactly does that mean???
rwHP or fwHP??

Another question...

pre '97 mod motor was "non-PI"

Does that mean that 98+ are PI??

and what the heck is "PI" ??

Thanks

99+ are all PI. PI means "Power Induced" I believe. Read the latest MM&FF for a great explanation of the difference between '98's and the '99 motor as well as other years.

Many of the mod (for TB's, plenums etc...) manufacturers when they quote HP, they actually mean rwhp, but they are ALWAYS very optimistic. Also, the amount of gains depends on the type of motor and other mods. For a blown 4.6, sure, just adding a 75 mm TB might get you 10 or even 15 hp over the stock TB. The key is not how much hp a mod adds, but how it works with your other mods AND the mods that you plan for the future.

Increasing your TB to a 70 mm or a 75 mm is a great idea for a place to start especially if you plan future mods. Same goes for a plenum. The bigger pay-offs will be down the road. This is why some of us jumped on you a little for waisting time with a spacer.

If you plan on making big changes to your car over the years, then do things right from the start and follow a logical path. The reason why there is so much used crap on ebay is because so many guys don't take this advice.

Thanks Blake.

Ok... I think this is the final draft of mods to come...

Before mods: @ the fw: 260hp & 302 ft/lbs
@ the rw: 230hP & 280 ft/lbs
Mods:
* K&N air filter & intake silencer cut + 5HP
* Comp Cams - Xtreme Energy (mild street/strip) + 15HP
* Exhaust - Single chamber Flowmaster's + 5HP
* Royal Purple motor, tranny & rear end fluids + 3HP
* BBK 1701 or 1703 75mm TB & C&L Plenum + 8HP
* Densecharger TB pipe + 2HP

After mods: @ the fw: 298 hp
@ the rw: 253 hp (fwhp - 15% drivetrain loss(45hp))

I know I used slightly high numbers.. I understand that each item one at a time will not give it's listed hp gain... however the numbers above should represent the estimated hp after ALL is done :)

Am I more accurate with my numbers now? (explicitone) hehe

And yes I know there are a lot of if's but's and maybe's involved... but the ending rwhp should be somewhere close to that. Right?

Should be the perfect mix of everything working together smoothly, and good planing for the future. (So I wont be on ebay selling crap I didnt need.. haha)

Thanks again :)

Jess:

I think those numbers are right on the money. If you are high, not by much. (so close to the magical 300 hp number).

What did you decide to do about gears? I forget.

Not gonna do gears.
Dont want an even shorter lasting 1st gear. And I like where the rpms are while doing 70 on the freeway :)

I think all those mods will give me enough pull in the low rpms through 4th & 5th

Thats all I was after... just a bit more freeway passing power (without down shifting)

And I still dont get what "power induced" means..

Can someone please give a link to do some reading on the PI and non-PI mod motors

thank you :)

QUestion about the C&L. I've been trying to get to the bottom of this.

If I have a stock intake... and I had the 75M TB plenum ... should I also change the 'plumbing' and MAF for the total effect, or will the plenum work on it's own?

What do you guys think a Mac Power Chamber w/ HiPo Cats and Flowmaster 40 series give for extra power over stock? Looks like I am gaining about 1.5MPH on my traps.

If you look above you'll see that you should change out the pipe that runs from the throttle body to the maf.

check out densecharger.com and click on "ordering" then at the top click on "here"

You'll see the pipe you need there.
that'll give you a good gain.

The larger TB and plenum wont give you all that it can until you put a larger pipe in there too :)

But no you do not need a bigger MAF sensor.

Ok. So if I do the whole intake. ...and I have a good portion of the exaust done... - i.e. I am getting unrestricted flow of air, should I consider some bigger injectors? Or are those really more for Force Induction application?

No, you dont need bigger injectors.

Only when you get up to around 280-300 rear wheel horsepower
thats far far away from your stock 220 at the rear wheels :)
And then you'll need to dyno tune a chip in order to use larger injectors.

I am going through the same steps you are going through :)

Have you read through this whole thread?
Because the latest info is a gathering of all the input of a bunch of people (in a lot of threads) who have already done all the bolt on's and learned all the lessons for us.. haha

I was a newbie a few weeks ago and now I've learned so much from these guys!

Yah. I've used more information from modulardepot (*or something like that).

...but I know I always get straight talk from the boys here at the 'works.

FYI. On your list you mention some Flowmasters - alone... they don't give you anything for extra power.

Heres the other part.

I plan on getting pulleys, timing adjuster & the C&L 75MM TB. I already have cat back exaust. (Are Long Tube headers worth it for the price?)

Would you guys get the Timing Adjuster or the Diablo Delta Chip (specifically if I get 3.73 in the near future?)

So with those mods... I should be approaching the 270RWHP? no?