Deleting swaybars with coilover springs for street car

crazypete · 06-30-2004, 08:08 AM

I just went and bought me a groundpounder tubular k-memeber, a-arms and coilover setup. I'm debating between the 300 or 400 lb rate springs. I heard that the big nasty looking front swaybar only applies about 50 lbs of pressure to the wheel on the low side of the turn. I was thinking that maybe with my stiff 625 lb "c" springs and the coilovers to follow, I could delete the front swaybar and mounts in my quest for the weightless car. I still want to be able to take highway exits at 55 mph.

What about that rear swaybar? It looks real flimsy. Does that actually do anything meaningful? I'm also getting tubular upper and lower control arms and doing away with the quad shocks. The less crap, the better.

This car is 100% street.

Thanks guys and happy racing.

Crazy Pete

tireburner163 · 06-30-2004, 09:58 AM

If you want to take corners are 55mph leave you sway bars in place.

It's not as bad as you'd think though. Yank you front sway bar and drive it around for a little while and see how you like it.

What ever you do, leave your rear sway bar in place. It ties the rear-end together and prevents side to side motion. I got massive amounts of wheel hop when I didn't have on a rear sway bar.

-Josh, aka the tireburner

crazypete · 06-30-2004, 10:16 AM

Shouldnt my 625 lb springs do a much better job of anti-roll than the swaybar does? I feel like the suspension is so stiff that I "bounce" around when I hit bumps. I have practically no bodyroll right now.

tireburner163 · 06-30-2004, 10:23 AM

The sway bar's main job is to tie the front tires together. Stiffer springs can't do that. If stiffere springs could do that, none of the road race teams would run front sway bars.

-Josh, aka the tireburner

drudis · 06-30-2004, 11:56 AM

Coming from a roadracer, I "hear" many success stories about drag racers just disconnecting (or removing) the front swaybar for the street. Some of my friends do that, but they also run skinnies on the street.
The rear bar is over tha back tires, so weight isnt really an issue (as much as it might be over the front). Also, its a much smaller (lighter) bar.

THe 650# front springs are ok, but shocks need to dampen these loads. A stock strut is not going to dampen 650# springs. So you will end up with a crappy ride (like wasted struts). Plus, these springs LOWER a car. YOu want to keep stock ride height for weight transfer. Also, these coils are not very tall (long), so there is not a lot of stored energy (compress a looooong spring, versus a short high-load one). SO no weight transfer from the springs either.
My springs on the roadracer are like 1600# and get ZERO transfer at a drag strip. In fact, my friend is at the 60 foot mark, before my back tires cross the starting line.

Live with the stock springs, and get coilovers later. Save your money for now...

crazypete · 06-30-2004, 12:03 PM

Actually, I'm already driving around on 2 year old "c"s and the k-memeber/coilover setup with 300's is arriving soon as it's replacement.

=)

I'm so happy.

My goal is to keep lightening the car until a civic seems heavy by comparison. Next year: fiberglass and lexan whereever I can put it and lots of jogging to "remove excess weight" =P

Thats the only reason I look at the swaybar with wrench in hand....

LX5liter · 07-01-2004, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crazypete
and lots of jogging to "remove excess weight" =P

I would have to jog for 2 years non stop!!!

crazypete · 07-01-2004, 09:05 AM

I just started my campaign to revert to manual steering. I'm looking around at the local boneyards for a 79-81 manual rack + it's attached tierods. I'm going to a 83-87 T-bird forward rotation water pump and trying to find a T-bird forward rotation clutchfan. The only thing thats up in the air is the size of belt I will need. I was even thinking of deleting that belt tensioner assembly and bolting the alternator directly to the heads.....That tensioner is HEAVY

crazypete · 07-02-2004, 08:19 AM

What a difference! I took off the swaybar last night and went for a drive.

The ride feels so smooth now. The suspension actually suspends! I dont smash over bumps anymore, I actually feel the suspension compress and extend and the car glides over them. No more knocking my head on the ceiling. The front end feels more "alive".

I'm not sure if it was the weight removal or the fact that the a-arms can now move more freely up and down but I just feel like I went to softer springs.

I took a few highway exits at 60mph and I feel a bit of tilt/roll but nothing exciting at all. Doesnt the bodyroll plant the tire doing all the work into the ground really hard? Isnt it like good weight transfer?

06-30-2004, 08:08 AM	#1
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	Deleting swaybars with coilover springs for street car I just went and bought me a groundpounder tubular k-memeber, a-arms and coilover setup. I'm debating between the 300 or 400 lb rate springs. I heard that the big nasty looking front swaybar only applies about 50 lbs of pressure to the wheel on the low side of the turn. I was thinking that maybe with my stiff 625 lb "c" springs and the coilovers to follow, I could delete the front swaybar and mounts in my quest for the weightless car. I still want to be able to take highway exits at 55 mph. What about that rear swaybar? It looks real flimsy. Does that actually do anything meaningful? I'm also getting tubular upper and lower control arms and doing away with the quad shocks. The less crap, the better. This car is 100% street. Thanks guys and happy racing. Crazy Pete __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

06-30-2004, 09:58 AM	#2
tireburner163 It's a lot like a race car Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Meridian, MS Posts: 4,130	If you want to take corners are 55mph leave you sway bars in place. It's not as bad as you'd think though. Yank you front sway bar and drive it around for a little while and see how you like it. What ever you do, leave your rear sway bar in place. It ties the rear-end together and prevents side to side motion. I got massive amounts of wheel hop when I didn't have on a rear sway bar. -Josh, aka the tireburner __________________ 1987 Buick T-type 1998 HD Electra Elide

06-30-2004, 10:16 AM	#3
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	Shouldnt my 625 lb springs do a much better job of anti-roll than the swaybar does? I feel like the suspension is so stiff that I "bounce" around when I hit bumps. I have practically no bodyroll right now. __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

06-30-2004, 10:23 AM	#4
tireburner163 It's a lot like a race car Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Meridian, MS Posts: 4,130	The sway bar's main job is to tie the front tires together. Stiffer springs can't do that. If stiffere springs could do that, none of the road race teams would run front sway bars. -Josh, aka the tireburner __________________ 1987 Buick T-type 1998 HD Electra Elide

06-30-2004, 11:56 AM	#5
drudis Moderator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Livonia, MI, USA Posts: 1,194	Coming from a roadracer, I "hear" many success stories about drag racers just disconnecting (or removing) the front swaybar for the street. Some of my friends do that, but they also run skinnies on the street. The rear bar is over tha back tires, so weight isnt really an issue (as much as it might be over the front). Also, its a much smaller (lighter) bar. THe 650# front springs are ok, but shocks need to dampen these loads. A stock strut is not going to dampen 650# springs. So you will end up with a crappy ride (like wasted struts). Plus, these springs LOWER a car. YOu want to keep stock ride height for weight transfer. Also, these coils are not very tall (long), so there is not a lot of stored energy (compress a looooong spring, versus a short high-load one). SO no weight transfer from the springs either. My springs on the roadracer are like 1600# and get ZERO transfer at a drag strip. In fact, my friend is at the 60 foot mark, before my back tires cross the starting line. Live with the stock springs, and get coilovers later. Save your money for now... __________________ Darius Rudis, Moderator Corner Carvers Delight 1989 Mustang LX - Open Track Car http://www.dariusrudis.com

06-30-2004, 12:03 PM	#6
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	Actually, I'm already driving around on 2 year old "c"s and the k-memeber/coilover setup with 300's is arriving soon as it's replacement. =) I'm so happy. My goal is to keep lightening the car until a civic seems heavy by comparison. Next year: fiberglass and lexan whereever I can put it and lots of jogging to "remove excess weight" =P Thats the only reason I look at the swaybar with wrench in hand.... __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

07-01-2004, 09:05 AM	#8
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	I just started my campaign to revert to manual steering. I'm looking around at the local boneyards for a 79-81 manual rack + it's attached tierods. I'm going to a 83-87 T-bird forward rotation water pump and trying to find a T-bird forward rotation clutchfan. The only thing thats up in the air is the size of belt I will need. I was even thinking of deleting that belt tensioner assembly and bolting the alternator directly to the heads.....That tensioner is HEAVY __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

07-02-2004, 08:19 AM	#9
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	What a difference! I took off the swaybar last night and went for a drive. The ride feels so smooth now. The suspension actually suspends! I dont smash over bumps anymore, I actually feel the suspension compress and extend and the car glides over them. No more knocking my head on the ceiling. The front end feels more "alive". I'm not sure if it was the weight removal or the fact that the a-arms can now move more freely up and down but I just feel like I went to softer springs. I took a few highway exits at 60mph and I feel a bit of tilt/roll but nothing exciting at all. Doesnt the bodyroll plant the tire doing all the work into the ground really hard? Isnt it like good weight transfer? __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

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