Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

I got a new 1-piece export brace (old one was 4-piece) and a monte carlo bar with the curve in the middle, and am in the process of installing them. One issue I'm having is with the old export brace. For some reason, the 2 smaller pieces are welded to the shock tower. They're not very good welds, but they're more than I can handle without power tools. The new 1-piece will fit, but I really want to get these disgusting things off before I put the new one on. If anyone can suggest what to use on these welds, it would be greatly appreciated. I wouldn't flinch at buying power tools for this, because the geniuses that hooked my headers up to the exhaust pipe saw fit to weld one of the collectors up to the pipe, and I could use it to fix that too. :mad:

The monte carlo bar seems to be just a little too long for the engine bay. Should I be jacking the car up to remove the load on the suspension before I start fitting these and bolting them up?

Lastly, I'm planning on getting a suspension upgrade kit within a month or two from Mustang's Plus. I was thinking of the "street heat" kit. Does anyone have any experience with this setup? I'm not planning on any hardcore racing, but I'm looking for a balance between comfort and handling. Or at least the best handling I can get without a jarring ride. Again, any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

The Monte Carlo bar not fitting is supposed to be a common thing with a 40 year old car. You are supposed to be able to jack it up by the front cross member, and allow the car to sit for a little while. This is suppose to let the stress off the inner fender walls and should give you the clearance you need.

I should clarify I have not done this before, but swear I read it on here once upon a time...and it makes sense to me.
Ryan

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Makes sense. I'm going to stop by sears right now and see if I can find something to saw/remove the welded pieces of the old export brace. Were the factory installed ones welded up to the shock towers like that, or does that sound like someone's bad idea?

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

best thing to get the welds off are power drill w/cutting off tool attachment with a steady hand.
With the suspension kit I would take a look at www.mustangdepot.com 's suspension kit, I think it comes with more choices and is pretty reasonably priced. If youre getting new leaf springs go with 4 or 4 1/2 leaf. They will probably be right around what youre looking for. I'm putting 5 leaf race springs in my 66.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Got the export brace and monte carlo bar on with much pushing and pulling, and at the cost of a very sore back. Sometimes it just doesn't pay to be tall, heh heh...

I picked up an angle grinder from sears with some cutting and grinding disks and went to work on the old 4-piece. Fun times. If the old export brace wasn't metal, I would have loved to ritualistically burn it before tossing it in the garbage.

So the 5 leafs that come with mustang plus' "street heat" kit would be a bit much for a moderately modified (eventually) car? How about the 620 springs? They say that the 5 leaf mid-eyes and 620s drop the car an inch at all 4 corners. I'd like that, I'll check and see if I can get the same ride height with the 4.5 leafs. Would I still go for the 620 springs if I choose the 4.5 leaf springs or should I go with something less stiff? Also, if I go with poly bushings, is that going to rattle my car around like those ricers you sometimes see that seem to have no suspension travel at all? I'd honestly rather have rubber that I'd have to change more often than a ride THAT jarring.

I appreciate the answers, everyone. I'm thinking I'm gonna wait a month or two before buying a kit in order to give myself time to research this stuff. I want to make sure I get this done right before I spend a nice chunk of $$$.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Did you look at the kit on the web site that I told you about?
The 4 and 4.5 leaf come in mid eye (ie1"0 drop) if you wanted to get them I know at that web site. As for the 5 leaf I'm going to try them first and see how they do and my have to get the coil over design with independent rear. I hoping to have around 500 to 700 rwhp in mine eventually. I have 4 engines to put in my car and cant fiqure out which one 302/460/5.4 lightning/4.6 w/vortec supercharger of course.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Yep, just checked those kits out. I can't help but notice they seem a bit more expensive than comparable kits from MP at first glance. That plus the shipping would probably put them out of my budget. I live in stockton, and MP is roughly 15 minutes away.

I see that 620 doesn't refer to spring rate, but the diameter of the spring (I've never touched suspension before). If so, how do I find out how stiff the front springs are?

Also, what of poly vs. rubber bushings? I'm guessing from what you say that 5-leafs are meant more for track or drag strip. In that case, should I go with 4.5 leafs? 4 leafs were stock, correct?

I noticed "Carrol Shell-B" mentioned a few times while I was browsing Mustang Depot. What's the deal with that? Does he have some issue similar to Ford with people using his name?

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

I would go with rubber bushings I have never used poly. I'm using the 5 leaf for the support if I do want to race street/strip I not really worried about comfort by the time I get done with it there is not going to be any flexing. I dont know what the spring rate will be for the springs but its a lowering spring it cant have much. My car I think have 3.5 leafs in it now the 4.5 should work fine and you want to get mid eye for the 1" drop. It must be nice having MP so close, all the stores I deal with online are least 450 mi. away.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Yeah, it's cool having MP in town. Although I haven't dealt with them for quite some time before I bought the bracing. Now I'm finally back to tinkering on my car.

It kinda sucks that their kits come with poly bushings, but I'm sure they'll let me use rubber and chop a little off the price. That's what I'm doing with the shocks. I have their gas shocks already, and they said that they can leave them out of the kit along with what they would have cost. I'm eventually going to get some adjustable gas shocks, though. That's why I wish I knew the spring rates. I need to go pick up a handling book from Barnes and Noble soon, too. Maybe monday after class...

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

I have the 620 springs, they are pretty nice not too stiff of a ride. I believe my ride height either stayed the same or even went up, just because the old springs had 40 years of wear on them. Something you need to consider. I thought i've heard that poly bushings were better, since they dont crack as easily as rubber, though i could be wrong.
___________
I also recommend that you get a coil compressor that goes inside the spring, as its a PITA with the ones that go on the outside. Thats my regret when i did mine.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

I have the 620's up front, but cut them to get the ride height I wanted to match my lowered rear springs.
Ryan

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

I've heard about new springs not actually lowering old mustangs thanks to decades of wear. It honestly won't bother me much because I like how my car sits now. The only thing that might suck is if the front and back aren't at the same height. I won't cut the springs because I've heard that doing so seriously messes the spring up. I guess all I can do is hope.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

I have had no issues with mine, for the last few years since I cut them. However, if it makes you feel uncomfortable that is totally understandable.
Ryan

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

I noticed they sell panhard bar kits at Mustang Depot. Can't say I've seen them at Mustangs Plus. I'm guessing this is something meant for track cars and may screw up my ride if used on the street. Is there any reason for me to install this on my car if it will only rarely be driven at the track, and even then, not in hardcore competition?

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

The panhard bar are pretty much traction bars for side to side movement. I know many people that have them on the cars some of them are daily driven. I just give extra support when driving. I am going to put those on mine. I am going to drive mine as much as I can when dry out. Don't drive in rain/snow with it at all.
It would probably benefit you having the v8 in your car. Helps keep to rear where it is supposed to be.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Contact John at theis email address: dietrends at-sign juno.com

He built a NICE 1965, and drives with me on opentrack events. Knows his stuff...
http://www.dariusrudis.com/saacmcr/2...s/DSC_0107.JPG

Tell him Darius sent ya.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

I like that 65.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Thanks Darius. I've emailed John a couple times and he's giving me some help.

I checked today and my leafs are 4.5. I thought that my car came with 3.5 stock, what a surprise. The 4.5s are probably weakened a bit, but even so, knowing this now makes me want to go with 5 leafs. I wonder if Mustangs Plus would take me for a ride in one of their cars that has the kits I'm considering? That would sure make for an easy decision. Even better would be if I could see how they ride at the track. :D

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

It shouldnt be that hard to convince somebody who has a Mustang set up to get its ass kicked to kick its ass. Make sense?

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Sure. Too bad I ended up having to work during the show at MP. I could have gotten at least 5% off if I was able to buy the kit then. I think I'll talk to the owner tomorrow and see if they can let me slide. He's given me a couple breaks before.

I've decided to give the street heat kit a shot. Simple and cheap enough to swap springs out if need be.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Ended up going with the grab-a-track kit instead, since it comes with shackles and gave me a few more options.

http://www.mustangsplus.com/Merchant...ry_Code=handle

I chose to stay with the 1" front sway bar because I think the 620 springs will significantly reduce roll on their own. I upgraded to the 5 leaf reverse eye springs since they're rated only 20lbs higher than the 4.5s that are on the car now, and stayed with the 3/4" rear sway bar. Also, I wanted to try to match the 1 1/2" drop up front with a 1 1/4" drop out back. I kinda hope it will come out even, does anyone know an easy way to drop the rear an extra 1/4"?

I ended up going with polyeurethane all around. The guys told me that anti-seize grease will prevent binding, and it can apparently be bought at any Kragen's or Auto Zone. Those little bastards sure are stiff, though. I've never dealt with poly before, and I was trying to squeeze them in my hand and they didn't give a bit.

Now I'm just waiting for MP to receive my spring compressor so I can get to work. BTW, those 620 springs are stiff too. Granted I'm only 220lbs, but I was checking them out to see if I could compress them at all, and nothing. I'm a little worried about the compressor...

Of course, I'm going to paint everything black that isn't already. I don't really like the look of multicolored suspensions, and it'll help me look stock at a glance. Is there a certain kind of paint I should use, or will anything pretty much look/last the same?

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

In addition to the questions above, should I prep the sway bars by sanding or priming at all if I want the paint to last? Also, all I saw was high and semi-gloss. What I should be getting for a stock look is flat black right, or is it the semi-gloss? I assumed flat black but they didn't have any.

I tried to find anti-seize grease at Kragen's, but all I saw was the regular grease and synthetic grease. Nothing on the packages said anything about polyurethane bushings or anti-seize. I was going to start the rear suspension today, but I'm still not quite sure what to use and I want to do this right the first time.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

You could put blocks between the leaf springs and rear axle with longer u-bolts, that would lower it. Are you spray can painting the parts or with a an actual spray gun? If they are already painted i wouldnt think you should have to prime them, just sand them up a bit and spray them. If your using a spray gun, use some decent paint made for metal. (my parents own a paint shop, so whenever i need something i just ask them, dont really pay attention to what it is, sorry!) I know they had a product (two part expoxy I believe) which is an extremely hard paint. We painted my stepdads imapala chassis with it, should never have a rock chip. (havent gotten the body on that yet) Kinda like POR15. I would try to find a paint shop that deals only with paint and ask them what they recommend. As for the gloss, i couldnt tell ya, whatever looks best to ya.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Speaking to an MCA judge, they say the sway bar should be gold zinc plated. It's just the way they come!

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Hello, Jay. Sorry about that pm the other day. I had no clue who you were, and just assumed that you were one of many folks that have been spamming me lately. I apologize for being harsh.

I never knew that the sway bars came zinc plated. All this time I was thinking they were supposed to be flat black. I really need to find a book on this, but every time I visit Barnes & Noble I can never find a good one.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

No problem my friend...

This site does get an extreem amount of spam for some reason. I think the moderators should be a little more aggressive...

Any thing I can do to help in your build let me know...

FYI If you join the MCA, the rules for concourse cars are made available to active members...

Thanks again

Jay

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

whats the mca?

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Mustang Club of America 100k members!

www.mustang.org

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Not bad. Guess I should be joining.

I hope I got the correct grease for the bushings. If I did, and don't need to paint the sway bars, then I can get started on my next day off! :D The brand is "Mag 1" and it's called "Super Lithium EP Moly Grease". I chose this because a couple of the guys at MP told me to make sure to get an anti-seize grease if I use the polyurethane bushings, and this is the only anti-seize grease I could find at Kragens or Pep Boys. It says it can be used over a wide range of applications, including automotive, but it doesn't say anything about being safe for polyurethane so I just wanted to ask and make sure if this stuff is safe before I get to work. I asked everyone I could find at the stores I checked, and nobody had a clue.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Silicone grease is safest for urethane. Avail at Home Depot, the big "DEPOT":)

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Crap. Looks like I've wasted $4.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Anybody watch Musclecar on the Power block on Spike? It was the first time i've been awake that early (yes, 10 or so is early for me!) so I got to watch it, and they started installation of a mustang 2 front suspension on a 65-66 (I think, cant remember) fastback stang! After watching that show it makes me want to do it, figured it'd be a good topic in this thread.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

About the silicone grease... besides it being safest, does it resist binding/seizing like the grease I already have?

This weekend, I finally have the day off from both work AND school. I want to at least get the rear taken care of then.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Well, I got started yesterday. Haven't had a chance to grease anything up yet, unfortunately. I almost got the passenger side leaf spring off, but the nut & bolt on the front just didn't want to turn anymore once I got it close to being off. Damn my luck. I guess I'll be going to get some penetrating grease or something to get this stubborn thing off.

I've got the car supported properly, frame, rear end, brake drum is resting on my spare tire...but I can't help but be nervous. Is it safe to have the car raised like this for any length of time?

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Ugh, luckily I was able to remove the front nut & bolt on the leaf spring. Now I can't get the shackle off. I've got the nut off (try not to laugh), but the bolt won't slide out. I've sprayed the area with penetrating oil, SOAKED the area with it, and hammered like mad, but to no avail. I guess this is what happens when nobody rebuilds the suspension in 40+ years.

While waiting for the oil to loosen things up for me, I sanded/primed/painted the new sway bars & shackles semi-flat black. The bronze stuff that they had on there just didn't seem like it was going to afford much protection. Not that I plan on ever driving in bad weather, but meh.

Anyway, I know this message board has been deader than usual lately, but has anyone run into stubborn bolts like this or have any suggestions on getting them off that I haven't thought of?

P.S. Sorry about the chain of questions, and thanks in advance.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Contact John again about some leaf spring contraption...
He crafted a leafspring NOT to use rubber bushings, but bearings instead. Pretty slick!
dietrends at-sign juno.com


p.s. I always found that a torch will get most anything off!!! ;)

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Matt, I did the MII Conv on my vert a while back and did an article on the subject.
http://www.mustangdepot.com/graphics/RoomforMore.pdf

The install is not that tough, but if you plan on open tracking the car, I would consider more bracing than the kit offers (ie firewall to front subs at least).

The crossmember sits kinda low too so it's another consideration.

PS I'm not the biggest fan of using a torch, but in that tight area, it may be necessary. If you can get a grinder in there and shave it off, give it a try.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

That conversion is just a weeee bit outta my league. :D Not to mention I just couldn't bring myself to hack up my car, considering the condition it's in.

And yeah, I'm sure I can get these bolts out without a torch. I haven't had a chance these past few days due to midterms, but I'll be getting back to it sometime in the next 2 days for sure.

Also, the sway bars and other hardware that I painted came out quite well. Especially considering that I was flirting with some really poor weather at the time.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Sheesh, this is taking longer than I thought. I have the passenger side leaf, shackle and everything else bolted in to minimum torque specs. Gonna torque them down proper once I get everything secured, of course.

I keep running into snags. Today I bought new bolts and nuts for the front of the leafs because I didn't want to reuse the old ones. MP apparently doesn't include them with their kits. Now I need to pick up new u-bolts & nuts for where the leaf meets the rear end. One of the nuts gets stuck on the bolt and it'll somehow spin and not go anywhere, on or off. Of course I find this out after spending time cleaning, sanding, priming, and painting them so they don't stand out against all the shiny new black parts. ARGH!

Another reason it's taking a while longer than I thought is because I've been cleaning out the caked dirt from the quarter panels and undercarriage while I'm in the area. Shot some new rubber undercoating in there, so now it looks nice 'n clean.

Anyway, I just thought I'd update. I don't have many friends that are into cars that I can talk to, can you tell?

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

I officially hate the driver's side shackle area. Not enough room to line the bolt up with the frame and the top of the shackle. I had to punch a hole in the inner quarter panel in order to get this bolt in. Pain in the ass. :mad:

If I'd been using rubber bushings, I'd probably have been able to insert the bushing/sleeve/bolt as a unit, but the polyurethane bushing was just too stiff for this. I know most of the regs probably know this already, but in case a relative newbie like me is reading this topic, be aware of bad times in this area. :(

Almost done...almost done... *rocks back and forth*

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Well, the rear suspension is all put together. All I have to do is detail the undercarriage and I'll be out of there.

1 quick question. If it's necessary to lower the rear to match the front, will I have to drill new holes or otherwise mess with the sway bar? Part of installing the bar was to jack the rear up by the differential so that the weight of the car is supported by the springs, then drill the holes in the frame going by the bar's position. Will a 1/4" change in ride height alter the spring and frame mounting point's position in relation to each other too much and give me any side effects? It seems like the bar's movement is limited since it's not a factory bar, but I could be wrong.

I should have some pics up as soon as I get around to detailing. BTW, what do you guys suggest for the rear undercarriage if it was previously daily-driven and kinda crappy?

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Well, no detailing yet, but I got a couple pictures up on myspace. I'm kinda limited to shots of the general area since there's a 12 picture limit and I need to leave space for shots of other projects, but whatever. It's under "my pictures", of course. Enjoy.

http://www.myspace.com/deltamustang65

P.S. They should let us upload more than a few pictures on MW.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

It's usually a situation where it could bind the end links. It's not likely that 1/4" would cause a bind!

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

I'm planning on getting started up front on monday, since I work this weekend. Gotta admit I'm a little worried about the stiffness of the springs. The back is very firm, and the leafs are rated at 195 lbs I believe. The coils are over twice that, and yes the front is heavier but I can't help but wonder if the car is going to be balanced and if it's going to get all skittish on the crummy streets here in Stockton.

Also, does it make a difference if I do the Shelby drop first? Should I remove both coils and drop both sides at the same time and then install all the new parts, or should I do one side at a time? As I've said before, I've never done any of this before. If you guys can help me avoid any pitfalls, that would be great. Thanks.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Can I simply loosen and retighten the end links after dropping the rear 1/4 to help avoid binding?

I have everything out but the coil springs themselves. I removed all the old rubber undercoat and sprayed on some more, looks much better. Even better, it took a lot less time than the rear. :D

I reused the shock tower caps, got 'em looking like new again.

If I have time after work tomorrow, I'll get started on the Shelby drop. It looks like it might be kinda hard drilling accurately in that area, though. If I don't run into some weird-ass problem, I can probably finish everything up if I have a whole afternoon to myself.

I'll let everyone (if you're still around) know how it turns out when I get it on the road. I should definately have it done and in for alignment before my B-day. :cool:

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Well, it's my birthday and I'm done putting the suspension back together! :D

I didn't take it to get aligned because I wasn't sure if it's necessary since I didn't do the Shelby drop after all. Is it a good idea to get the car aligned after simply upgrading the sway bar and going with 1" shorter springs?

I think I'm gonna wait until Spring when I get the front disk kit, and do the drop when I install new control arms. It IS possible to unbolt the upper control arms with the engine in the car, right...? It's just a 289, but it's making those bolts very hard to reach.

The passenger side spring perch rubbers are split kinda bad and the ball joints don't look too good, either. Seems like the perfect time to replace the rest of the front suspension is when I've got the brakes off. Something to look forward to, I guess.

Seems kinda quiet around here lately. Is that normal for this website around this time of year? Seems like everyone has stopped working on their cars since the weather is so crappy.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

The Mustang doesn't ride half bad, I'd say it's not quite harsh, maybe borderline. It corners MUCH better though, and body roll is non-existant when driving around town. I haven't been TOO rough on the car since I'm not quite done with the suspension yet.

Is it a good idea to just rebuild or replace bushings in the control arms if they aren't damaged or tweaked, or should I be getting new ones since these are roughly 40 years old? I really don't want to spend 500+ dollars on new control arms unless it's necessary.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

I dont see a need to get new ones unless there is something wrong with yours.
Ryan

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

This isn't a suspension question, but it's weight distribution related and I didn't see the need to make a whole new topic for this. I want to relocated the battery to the trunk, and I'm wondering if I need a battery box for safety or can I mount the battery exposed? If it matters, the tank is original, not a fuel cell. I plan on re-mounting the tank so it isn't torn so easily in an accident.

Re: Suspension upgrade Qs for '65 coupe
 

Has nobody done this? I asked around at MP before I posted here and they didn't know nor did they even have this done to any of their track cars, which I thought was really odd.

It seems like a really easy mod to make, but I'm having no luck getting any advice. I'll probably just get a box from Sac. Mustang. It couldn't hurt and it seems like the safe thing to do, to me anyway...