Torque motor?

88workcar · 11-12-2002, 08:39 PM

I need to know how to build a 302 for a truck that will be used to pull a horse trailer. It is fuel injected and it needs to stay that way. And needs to be quite stonger than the old stocker. I think the truck is a 93.

95GTS · 11-12-2002, 10:59 PM

Hmm.....can you stroke it? If that's a possiblity then stoke it to a 331 (more reliable than a 347) and throw on a good set of heads and intake (maybe some AFRs and GT40 or TFS or Edlebrock intake). You can even get a set of used GT40 cast heads for around $300 if you wanted to go that route. You are still speeddensity but I don't know if it's a roller cam or flat tappet. Either way get a custom cam ground for it and specify what your combo is and what you are wanting to do with the truck. If you want to go that route with the cam I can tell you about an excellent cam place that alot of the GEN 1 guys use for our 351Ws (both flat tappet and roller). You can at least do the heads and the intake without messing with the speeddensity system. When you change the cam is where it gets sensitive. The cam must hold the correct vaccum for the system to work properly. Also what rear end gears do you have? Go to at least 3.73s if not 4.10s.

95GTS · 11-12-2002, 11:05 PM

Geez...just read your sig so I reckon you already know alot of that stuff. Why you asking about anyways? LOL

88workcar · 11-13-2002, 07:08 AM

I didn't mean to throw you off with the sig. thats my car, yes I know a little. The question is, this truck will be for pulling, so it will need a lot of torque down low. I can make a mustang run, but this specific target goal I will need to get right the first time. I was asked to do a truck rebuild, which is no problem, but being for a specific purpose and being for someone else, I don't want any experamenting. I do plan on encouraging a gear change, but I don't know it it is going to happen. I think a converter would also be wise but don't know if he'll allow it. I saw a guy here 8850 he had a 302 with like 350hp but 470 ftlbs of torque. He don't respond to E-mail. I think the combo was big intake, big heads, little cam. I wish I could get with him to find out. He was from Sugarland, TX.

Coupe Devil · 11-13-2002, 11:10 AM

Hey man, You dont need all that garb to pull a horse trailer ( of an reasonable size) You will load the truck long before you load the motor. My truck is a 96 model with a K&N and a set of pullies and a 3.55 gear. Its an Auto, I pull my race car ( weight 3000 lbs ) and a 20 ft BIG TEX Utility triler ( weight 2650 ) as fast as I want to. The truck can pull it faster than I want it to, Now I been around horses alot and I know thier heavy when loaded into a decent size trailer with tach and saddles and feed and stuff like that. I would recommed just by changing the gear first. You didnt specify if its 2wd or 4wd, Not knowing lets say if it is 2wd, lets just assume it is, Probably a 3.55 gear, Put a 4.10 in it. IF I wasnt driving back and forth to school and didnt have to worry about gas now I would to. The stock motor has so much more potential if you just make the truck where you can use all of it. Swap gears and see what difference there is. And thats alot cheaper than building a new long block.

Bradley

95GTS · 11-13-2002, 06:08 PM

Hmmm.....ok. Tell me about the truck (tranny, rear gears, and 4x2 or 4x4) and about the trailer being used (size, bumper hitch, goose neck, etc). I pull trailers alot. Cattle and horses. I've used different sized trucks, too, from 302 F150 to V10 Superduty. If it's just like a two horse bumper hitch (receiver hitch) type trailer with a couple horses then the F150 302 will do fine with either transmission. If he doesn't tow ALOT then the 3.55s will be fine. If he tows quite a bit then I'd go to 4.10s. 3.73s are kinda in the middle ya know what I mean. If the motor needs rebuilt then you could always over haul the heads and also port and polish them up. Also I'd try to get ahold of a GT40 intake. That'll make good hp and tq. If you want different heads then get a used set of GT40 cast irons and work them over before you put them on. Even if you didn't the GT40 heads would definitely help in the tq range. You might try a cam out of a 87-95 5.0 mustang if your 302 is roller. Those are a bit more aggressive than the stock cam in the truck and will still work fine with the speeddensity truck. They even work in our Lightning 351Ws with our speeddensity if we convert to roller (we just found that out from a guy on the board who is currently experimenting with his truck and will find out power gains/losses soon). A custom cam would still be the way to go over the stock cams.

Though his best bet would be to get a 351W

. We have a 93 F150 ext. cab 4x2 short bed with the 302 and E4OD tranny. We pull our two horse trailer with it and it does just fine.

88workcar · 11-14-2002, 07:56 PM

Its getting good now, fellas keep it comming. The truck is a 92 F-150 extra cab reg bed 302. He wants to pull the horse trailer, he has been pulling it with this truck for 6 years. The truck has 200,000 miles on it. He wants a rebuild. He also wants a little pep. He said that if I say alum heads, them its alum heads, ect, ect. But I want to do it right. Gears, converter, and a decent little stout motor.

Dark_5.0 · 11-15-2002, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pony_power_90
Hey man, You dont need all that garb to pull a horse trailer ( of an reasonable size) You will load the truck long before you load the motor. My truck is a 96 model with a K&N and a set of pullies and a 3.55 gear. Its an Auto, I pull my race car ( weight 3000 lbs ) and a 20 ft BIG TEX Utility triler ( weight 2650 ) as fast as I want to. The truck can pull it faster than I want it to, Now I been around horses alot and I know thier heavy when loaded into a decent size trailer with tach and saddles and feed and stuff like that. I would recommed just by changing the gear first. You didnt specify if its 2wd or 4wd, Not knowing lets say if it is 2wd, lets just assume it is, Probably a 3.55 gear, Put a 4.10 in it. IF I wasnt driving back and forth to school and didnt have to worry about gas now I would to. The stock motor has so much more potential if you just make the truck where you can use all of it. Swap gears and see what difference there is. And thats alot cheaper than building a new long block.

Bradley

I work right next door to Big Tex trailors....

95GTS · 11-17-2002, 05:42 PM

Well then it pretty much comes down to how much he wants to spend, ya know? If he wants an increase in power yet is on a fairly tight budget then get a set of GT40 cast iron heads and work them over good. A GT40 intake (upper and lower). Stock 5.0 mustang cam or GEN 1 Lightning cam.

If money isn't a problem get a set of AFR 165s. The GT40 intake and extrude hone the lower or a TFS or Edlebrock. Custom cam ground for torque.

Or middle budget of combining the mods above. The internals will be fine going back with hypereutectics like the stock ones. I don't know what the stock compression is on that motor but you could also raise the compression some more in your combo and get some more N/A power since it's not going to have forced induction.

What tranny is in it? If it hasn't been rebuilt yet then I"d say that'd be in order to do, too. Since I see you mentioned "convertor" is it the AOD or E4OD? It's probably the E4OD and I'd get it rebuilt if it's got that many miles on it (though I don't see it even making it that long, lol). You should talk to Gregg Evans of Factory Tech Transmission. He's a former Ford tranny tech and really knows his stuff. Here's a link to his forum over on the National Lightning Owners Club website.

As for the rear end throw in a set of 4.10s for sure.

Ah, and don't forget the exhaust. Especially for torque look into a set of Hedman or Hooker long tubes, with custom catalytic midpipes and your choice of catback (Magnaflow is really good).

88workcar · 11-20-2002, 05:29 AM

Thanks, I get prices for such a rebuild. It should be cheaper than a new F-350 Super Duty

srv1 · 11-22-2002, 10:39 PM

hey 88. i am so shocked! your answering your own question basically!

let me help you. get long drop headers for the truck if they make them. port match those E7's and gut the intake a little. i would touch the exhuast much, maybe remove the humps. get an R/V cam. you are DEFINETLY going to have to rebuild that auto! trust me!! get a lower stall convertor and a little bigger one. get a really good tranny cooler along with an engine oil cooler. if you done want the E7's, get the GT40 irons. use this combo and your buddy would not believe it is an F150!

oh also, since he is doing a rebuild on the motor, you may want to up the compression a little. shave the heads or different pistons.

let me know what you think.

84LX89GT · 11-27-2002, 12:49 AM

What i would recommend is from a 5.0L explorer, getting the GT40P heads/intake manifolds (upper/lower), throttle body (if it can be adapted to a truck), fuel injectors with a new mass air meter calibrated for the 24lb injectors, small primary diameter headers with a smooth Y-pipe transition and single 3 inch pipe (maybe 2 1/2"), get a torquey cam for the engine, or maybe even the stock 5.0L explorer one since that is meant for lots of torque. Definately get a new torque converter if this is being used for towing as well as a better trans cooler for the higher stall of the converter.

As mentioned a little port matching/porting goes a long way especially for torque and just overall power output. You may also want to get a new MSD ignition coil, cap rotor and plugs since you're replacing the engine anyway.
It also wouldn't hurt to buy a windage tray, since they're relatively inexpensive and are good for a little bit more power.
Some 1.6:1 roller rockers provide less valvetrain friction for more power as well.

The GT40P heads would probably be perfect for a torquey 302 because of the quick burn chambers and excellent mid range torque band the heads offer with the improved flow. I think the biggest difference made would probably be with the cylinder heads. Again, as mentioned, if you can get some AFR or other aftermarket design you really can't go wrong, you'll get a ton more torque and usable power everywhere, the stock heads just suck.

Basically just improving the burn and reducing pumping losses from the engine (exhaust/heads) should make a noticable difference anything else will be butter.

This is my opinion, hopefully i helped in some way

88workcar · 11-27-2002, 05:26 AM

Thanks for all replies, I have talked to the guy and the project will be done but not till mid year comming. The small primary headers, torque cam, Explorer parts, and such things were what I was looking for. This motor will never see more than 4000 I'm sure, so it would not pay to build a mustang motor for a truck.

11-12-2002, 08:39 PM	#1
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	Torque motor? I need to know how to build a 302 for a truck that will be used to pull a horse trailer. It is fuel injected and it needs to stay that way. And needs to be quite stonger than the old stocker. I think the truck is a 93. __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

11-12-2002, 10:59 PM	#2
95GTS Git jiggy Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: MO USA Posts: 865	Hmm.....can you stroke it? If that's a possiblity then stoke it to a 331 (more reliable than a 347) and throw on a good set of heads and intake (maybe some AFRs and GT40 or TFS or Edlebrock intake). You can even get a set of used GT40 cast heads for around $300 if you wanted to go that route. You are still speeddensity but I don't know if it's a roller cam or flat tappet. Either way get a custom cam ground for it and specify what your combo is and what you are wanting to do with the truck. If you want to go that route with the cam I can tell you about an excellent cam place that alot of the GEN 1 guys use for our 351Ws (both flat tappet and roller). You can at least do the heads and the intake without messing with the speeddensity system. When you change the cam is where it gets sensitive. The cam must hold the correct vaccum for the system to work properly. Also what rear end gears do you have? Go to at least 3.73s if not 4.10s. __________________ 1967 Mustang Coupe

11-12-2002, 11:05 PM	#3
95GTS Git jiggy Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: MO USA Posts: 865	Geez...just read your sig so I reckon you already know alot of that stuff. Why you asking about anyways? LOL __________________ 1967 Mustang Coupe

11-13-2002, 07:08 AM	#4
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	I didn't mean to throw you off with the sig. thats my car, yes I know a little. The question is, this truck will be for pulling, so it will need a lot of torque down low. I can make a mustang run, but this specific target goal I will need to get right the first time. I was asked to do a truck rebuild, which is no problem, but being for a specific purpose and being for someone else, I don't want any experamenting. I do plan on encouraging a gear change, but I don't know it it is going to happen. I think a converter would also be wise but don't know if he'll allow it. I saw a guy here 8850 he had a 302 with like 350hp but 470 ftlbs of torque. He don't respond to E-mail. I think the combo was big intake, big heads, little cam. I wish I could get with him to find out. He was from Sugarland, TX. __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

11-13-2002, 11:10 AM	#5
Coupe Devil Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Myrtle Beach SC Posts: 1,643	Hey man, You dont need all that garb to pull a horse trailer ( of an reasonable size) You will load the truck long before you load the motor. My truck is a 96 model with a K&N and a set of pullies and a 3.55 gear. Its an Auto, I pull my race car ( weight 3000 lbs ) and a 20 ft BIG TEX Utility triler ( weight 2650 ) as fast as I want to. The truck can pull it faster than I want it to, Now I been around horses alot and I know thier heavy when loaded into a decent size trailer with tach and saddles and feed and stuff like that. I would recommed just by changing the gear first. You didnt specify if its 2wd or 4wd, Not knowing lets say if it is 2wd, lets just assume it is, Probably a 3.55 gear, Put a 4.10 in it. IF I wasnt driving back and forth to school and didnt have to worry about gas now I would to. The stock motor has so much more potential if you just make the truck where you can use all of it. Swap gears and see what difference there is. And thats alot cheaper than building a new long block. Bradley __________________ 1990 GT, 347, TFS TW Heads, TFS Cam, TFS Track heat, Twin turbos, FMIC, T5. Built Ford Tough Moderator

11-13-2002, 06:08 PM	#6
95GTS Git jiggy Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: MO USA Posts: 865	Hmmm.....ok. Tell me about the truck (tranny, rear gears, and 4x2 or 4x4) and about the trailer being used (size, bumper hitch, goose neck, etc). I pull trailers alot. Cattle and horses. I've used different sized trucks, too, from 302 F150 to V10 Superduty. If it's just like a two horse bumper hitch (receiver hitch) type trailer with a couple horses then the F150 302 will do fine with either transmission. If he doesn't tow ALOT then the 3.55s will be fine. If he tows quite a bit then I'd go to 4.10s. 3.73s are kinda in the middle ya know what I mean. If the motor needs rebuilt then you could always over haul the heads and also port and polish them up. Also I'd try to get ahold of a GT40 intake. That'll make good hp and tq. If you want different heads then get a used set of GT40 cast irons and work them over before you put them on. Even if you didn't the GT40 heads would definitely help in the tq range. You might try a cam out of a 87-95 5.0 mustang if your 302 is roller. Those are a bit more aggressive than the stock cam in the truck and will still work fine with the speeddensity truck. They even work in our Lightning 351Ws with our speeddensity if we convert to roller (we just found that out from a guy on the board who is currently experimenting with his truck and will find out power gains/losses soon). A custom cam would still be the way to go over the stock cams. Though his best bet would be to get a 351W . We have a 93 F150 ext. cab 4x2 short bed with the 302 and E4OD tranny. We pull our two horse trailer with it and it does just fine. __________________ 1967 Mustang Coupe

11-14-2002, 07:56 PM	#7
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	Its getting good now, fellas keep it comming. The truck is a 92 F-150 extra cab reg bed 302. He wants to pull the horse trailer, he has been pulling it with this truck for 6 years. The truck has 200,000 miles on it. He wants a rebuild. He also wants a little pep. He said that if I say alum heads, them its alum heads, ect, ect. But I want to do it right. Gears, converter, and a decent little stout motor. __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

11-17-2002, 05:42 PM	#9
95GTS Git jiggy Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: MO USA Posts: 865	Well then it pretty much comes down to how much he wants to spend, ya know? If he wants an increase in power yet is on a fairly tight budget then get a set of GT40 cast iron heads and work them over good. A GT40 intake (upper and lower). Stock 5.0 mustang cam or GEN 1 Lightning cam. If money isn't a problem get a set of AFR 165s. The GT40 intake and extrude hone the lower or a TFS or Edlebrock. Custom cam ground for torque. Or middle budget of combining the mods above. The internals will be fine going back with hypereutectics like the stock ones. I don't know what the stock compression is on that motor but you could also raise the compression some more in your combo and get some more N/A power since it's not going to have forced induction. What tranny is in it? If it hasn't been rebuilt yet then I"d say that'd be in order to do, too. Since I see you mentioned "convertor" is it the AOD or E4OD? It's probably the E4OD and I'd get it rebuilt if it's got that many miles on it (though I don't see it even making it that long, lol). You should talk to Gregg Evans of Factory Tech Transmission. He's a former Ford tranny tech and really knows his stuff. Here's a link to his forum over on the National Lightning Owners Club website. As for the rear end throw in a set of 4.10s for sure. Ah, and don't forget the exhaust. Especially for torque look into a set of Hedman or Hooker long tubes, with custom catalytic midpipes and your choice of catback (Magnaflow is really good). __________________ 1967 Mustang Coupe

11-20-2002, 05:29 AM	#10
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	Thanks, I get prices for such a rebuild. It should be cheaper than a new F-350 Super Duty __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

11-22-2002, 10:39 PM	#11
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	hey 88. i am so shocked! your answering your own question basically! let me help you. get long drop headers for the truck if they make them. port match those E7's and gut the intake a little. i would touch the exhuast much, maybe remove the humps. get an R/V cam. you are DEFINETLY going to have to rebuild that auto! trust me!! get a lower stall convertor and a little bigger one. get a really good tranny cooler along with an engine oil cooler. if you done want the E7's, get the GT40 irons. use this combo and your buddy would not believe it is an F150! oh also, since he is doing a rebuild on the motor, you may want to up the compression a little. shave the heads or different pistons. let me know what you think. __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

11-27-2002, 12:49 AM	#12
84LX89GT Mustangs Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 1,938	What i would recommend is from a 5.0L explorer, getting the GT40P heads/intake manifolds (upper/lower), throttle body (if it can be adapted to a truck), fuel injectors with a new mass air meter calibrated for the 24lb injectors, small primary diameter headers with a smooth Y-pipe transition and single 3 inch pipe (maybe 2 1/2"), get a torquey cam for the engine, or maybe even the stock 5.0L explorer one since that is meant for lots of torque. Definately get a new torque converter if this is being used for towing as well as a better trans cooler for the higher stall of the converter. As mentioned a little port matching/porting goes a long way especially for torque and just overall power output. You may also want to get a new MSD ignition coil, cap rotor and plugs since you're replacing the engine anyway. It also wouldn't hurt to buy a windage tray, since they're relatively inexpensive and are good for a little bit more power. Some 1.6:1 roller rockers provide less valvetrain friction for more power as well. The GT40P heads would probably be perfect for a torquey 302 because of the quick burn chambers and excellent mid range torque band the heads offer with the improved flow. I think the biggest difference made would probably be with the cylinder heads. Again, as mentioned, if you can get some AFR or other aftermarket design you really can't go wrong, you'll get a ton more torque and usable power everywhere, the stock heads just suck. Basically just improving the burn and reducing pumping losses from the engine (exhaust/heads) should make a noticable difference anything else will be butter. This is my opinion, hopefully i helped in some way __________________ 2005 Suzuki Hayabusa GSX1300-R 1980 Ford Thunderbird - 255 V8 ported heads, 5.0L ported stock headers, O.R. H-pipe and Flowmaster 2-chambers, dual roller timing chain hi-po Mack Truck hood emblem 1985 Mustang GT 5.0L T5, F-303, GT40p, headers, off-road h, flowmasters, MSD stuff, etc. Sold 02/06/04 1989 Mustang GT ET: 13.304@102.29 mph (5-24-03) Sold - 1998 Mustang Cobra coupe, 1/4 mile - street tires: 13.843@103.41 (bone stock)

11-27-2002, 05:26 AM	#13
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	Thanks for all replies, I have talked to the guy and the project will be done but not till mid year comming. The small primary headers, torque cam, Explorer parts, and such things were what I was looking for. This motor will never see more than 4000 I'm sure, so it would not pay to build a mustang motor for a truck. __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

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