Car Audio 101

[Fox Body]

All right I am about fed up. My audio pretty much sucks in my car. I got 2 3", 2-channel Rockford Fosgates (15-watt I think, w/ 30w max) up front (one of which I think is broken) and 2 brand new 3-channel 6x9" Pioneers, 160-watts (free gift from a friend) in the back. Got a Pioneer KE-1900 (Super Tuner III). Can't find the stinking papers on it so don't know what it pushes.

Can't cut up radio loud b/c speakers seem like they can't take it, but something's wrong, they gotta be able to take it b/c it aint pushing out that much in the first place. Especially the back speakers: they're definately rated at 160w and when I cut up radio loud, they are pretty weak. Bass is barely heard. Yeah great highs, but no bass.
Really sucks. (I been dealling with this crap for too long and I really feel like ending this post right now, tired of this) .

Maybe I need a whole new system. Go to some car audio place and pay $1000 for good system, but that ain't happening til I get my motor work done first.

Aaaaaahhhh SCREW IT!!!!!



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351W-powered 1979 Ford Mustang notchback
Stock 5.8L under 4" cowl, C4 w/ shift kit
Holley 750 cfm, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
1 5/8" MAC shorty headers, Al driveshaft
2.5" Off road H-pipe, 2-chamber Flowmasters
Front: 225/60/15, Rear: 255/60/15 Eagle GT II
Weld wheels (15x6;15x8), 8.8" Rear w/ 3.55s
14 x 4” K&N air filter (getting the Xtreme setup someday)

"Red, thou art my companion. Hasten now your quickened metamorphosis to Green that I may conquer all who dare abide there beside me. May they be left thither behind burnt black." ---Fox Body



[This message has been edited by Fox Body (edited 07-16-2001).]

[Power]

I'm not sure if you actually were desiring a response from me or not, but I'll go ahead.

First of all, the setup you got is not going to be anything spectacular. But it does sound like you might not be getting what you can out of what you have. The door speakers will probably at best sound "ok", but the 6x9's should be decent. I'm guessing that the 6x9's are underpowered which is about almost as bad as overpowering them. This causes them to run on much less current then the design calls for. They will sound weak and fluttery because they don't have enough juice to push and pull as fast as they should.

I'm guessing your head unit pushes around 15-30 watts per channel. Thats pretty much the standard unless you have pre-outs. A small amp pushing your 6x9's would probably do wonders to your sound. Try just buying a cheap one of you don't want to spend mega $$'s. A cheap one would do the trick for you.

[This message has been edited by Power (edited 07-18-2001).]

[untamed351]

i have the pioneer 6x8 3 way in my stang and 6x9 4 way in my t-bird. Both have small amps feeding them. They both act more like a component system them a 6x9. They are much better for highs than anything else. My 6x8 have a build in crossover and keeps the lows from delivering most bass. Also the speaker wire might be too small to carry enough power to the speaker i always use 12-14 guage speaker wire.
Dont spend all that money to have someone do it for you. My brother is heavy into stereo competitions. Just give him a limit and he can but together the best stuff for the money.

[Fox Body]

Thanks for replying Power.

The thing that sucks even more is that I already have a Redondo (LA Sound) 4-channel 45W x 4 power amplifier that I got straight out the box for $10 (from a friend). Yes, and with this equipment all together, I don't expect anything spectacular, I've already come to terms with that long ago, but it's gotta be better than it is now. I did hear an improvement when I first put it on (about 1 year ago) and I still do, but still IMO should be better.

I'm thinking I may even have it hooked up wrong. Can you describe the basic schematics of how it should be hooked up? or show me to a website that would have it (possibly?)? I went to Best Buy and got the general car speaker wire.

Another thing, I don't know if you have access to a car audio catalog (an older one) that would have the Pioneer KE-1900 in it with it's specifications, but if you do could you tell me what it pushes-- or should it be on the back of the radio?

Maybe the radio is only a 2-channel radio? Do they make those? If so would that cause problems?

And like untamed351 hinted at, could it be that the 3way 6x9s are not suitable for rear speakers where bass (not booming, but just decent) is not an intended feature for that type of speaker? Perhaps better to go with 2way or 1way?

I guess the 1rst thing would be to at least make sure the head unit and amp are compatible and then make sure all the speakers are hooked up corrrectly. If you could help me out with this first I think that will make the biggest dif. (I know it could be kinda difficult over a message board, but any help is a step closer, i guess).


-----------------------------------------
351W-powered 1979 Ford Mustang notchback
Stock 5.8L under 4" cowl, C4 w/ shift kit
Holley 750 cfm, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
1 5/8" MAC shorty headers, Al driveshaft
2.5" Off road H-pipe, 2-chamber Flowmasters
Front: 225/60/15, Rear: 255/60/15 Eagle GT II
Weld wheels (15x6;15x8), 8.8" Rear w/ 3.55s
14 x 4” K&N air filter (getting the Xtreme setup someday)

"Red, thou art my companion. Hasten now your quickened metamorphosis to Green that I may conquer all who dare abide there beside me. May they be left thither behind burnt black." ---Fox Body

[untamed351]

If i remember correctly the head unit was either 35x4 or 40x4

[MonsterTrosity]

Rule #1, check the basics. Sounds like one of your speakers is out of phase. Make sure all of the speakers have the + to the +, and the - to the - on all terminals and amps. Even when you've double checked them, and you think everything is right, try inversing the phase. If the bass all of a sudden sounds twice as loud, than that was your problem. Now, of course, you want to make sure that all of your speakers are in the same phase, so check everything, otherwise it will still sound weird.

Next, check your power. Always make sure you have heavy enough guage wire going to your power leads on all amps, and head unit. Check your grounds as well. You always want to make sure that you sand the surface of where you connect your gorund wires to the chassis.

I ALWAYS run my mids and highs in the doors off of the deck. If you are not, and you are running an amp, you will iether burst an ear drum, or your speakers. There is never a need for that kind of power up front unless you are trying to have a block party. Simply save the amps for your rear fill, and bass units. Don't expect to get much base out of the rear fill. That is what subwoofers are for. I always like to run crossovers on the fronts and rears to filter out the bass, and save that for the subs. 1, it will run cleaner power, and keep your head unit from needing to pump bass, and 2, it will help deliver cleaner louder sound to all speakers because you are saving your power for the sub amp.

And last, but definately not least, get a cap. I ALWAYS run caps in all my cars, nice stereo or not. I like to run one directly connected to the amp, and one directly connected to the battery. I love the extra cranking amps it gives to your starter (starts that car up fast!) and it also helps filter out any surges that your car delivers fro either heavy bass, or simply turning on your headlights. I'm not talking about a 1uf or even a .5uf, I only use two .15uf, and that is all you need. Anything more, and were talking about another block party. Believe me when I say your starter, and alternator will love you for it! They will last twice as long.

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MonsterTrosity

[Fox Body]

Okay, what I will do (since I have more time than usual this week) is tear everything down and start over. I will follow your advice MonsterTrosity.

Once again though, it puzzles me as to why the front speakers(especially) and the rear speakers start getting distorted if I cut up the volume. I took the front ones out and hooked it up to my stereo inside the house and was able to turn it up LOUD and NO distortion, but I put it in the car and can't turn it up 1/2 as much without it getting distorted. B4 I hooked them up to the amp, they (all of the speakers) seemed even weaker. I guess I'll try taking them off the amp (45Wx4) and see what happens. Maybe it is the gauge of the wire. I dunno. Maybe I just have the amp hooked up wrong. Car audio is not my thing, but I am willing to learn.

What gauge wire do you suggest? They're hooked up with the generic Best Buy speaker wire.

MonsterTrosity, when you say "cap", is that a safety so the speakers won't get harmed by too much power and are you saying it has a built in filter?

ANYMORE ADVICE OR POINTERS ARE WELCOME.

-----------------------------------------
351W-powered 1979 Ford Mustang notchback
Stock 5.8L under 4" cowl, C4 w/ shift kit
Holley 750 cfm, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
1 5/8" MAC shorty headers, Al driveshaft
2.5" Off road H-pipe, 2-chamber Flowmasters
Front: 225/60/15, Rear: 255/60/15 Eagle GT II
Weld wheels (15x6;15x8), 8.8" Rear w/ 3.55s
14 x 4” K&N air filter (getting the Xtreme setup someday)

"Red, thou art my companion. Hasten now your quickened metamorphosis to Green that I may conquer all who dare abide there beside me. May they be left thither behind burnt black." ---Fox Body


[This message has been edited by Fox Body (edited 07-23-2001).]

[jonnyk]

Distortion is 99% of the time not the speaker's fault. It is the amplifier powering them being overdriven. That's what your deck is facing. You turn it up until the internal amp is maxed out and it just spits out distorted power beyond a certain level.
To get decent bass will depend on the speaker, but generally the bigger the deeper. 6x9's would be decent with a small amp pushing them. Don't expect anything from a 3" speaker. I would go 5.25's in the doors personally as a minimum. Powering all speakers with an amp is a GOOD idea. Deck power plain sucks. I have 100W RMS going to each side of my front speakers and love it to death, they sound amazing.
If you really want to add some bass, you need at least a sub if not 2. A single 10" in a small sealed box with a small amp would be a nice addition. If not, I would say powering the 6x9's with an amp will make them louder at all frequency ranges, and especially down low where you sound like you want it.
For low-power applications and relatively short distances, 16 or 20 awg speaker wire will do. They aren't carrying much current from a 15-30W deck (1-2 amps at most). May want to upgrade if you add an amp to like minimum 16 awg wire, maybe even 12 awg if it's a long run like from the trunk to the doors. Brand really doesn't matter at all. Wire is wire. Good luck!

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'91 LX Hatch, 17 ROH ZR6's, lowered, 3.73's, offroad H pipe, SN Cobra cat-back, ASP pullies, 14° timing, C&L 76mm MAF, 170A 3G, B&M Ripper on a T5
Best ET: 14.593 Best MPH: 95.72 (75°, 75% hum., 2200')
1991 LX Hatch 5.0L

[This message has been edited by jonnyk (edited 07-25-2001).]

[Fox Body]

Okay, I will carefully unhook my amp and start over. I hardly ever mess with car audio so if you guys could do me one more favor: can you give me a basic schematic on how the speaker should be hooked up to the amp?

Should speaker wires go from radio output to amp's input, from amp's output to speakers?

I believe it is hooked up wrong b/c I have a 4 channel 45W amp powering the speakers, but this "upgrade" has cause me not to be able to fade from left to right-- only front to back and, for example, if a song cuts off right channel for a second (as a part of the song) I'll hear it from front to back instead of left and right.

I well know this forum is really quiet and posts are few and far b/t, but I'm glad it's here b/c you guys' advice has helped and I really appreciate all who have responded.

-----------------------------------------
351W-powered 1979 Ford Mustang notchback
Stock 5.8L under 4" cowl, C4 w/ shift kit
Holley 750 cfm, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
1 5/8" MAC shorty headers, Al driveshaft
2.5" Off road H-pipe, 2-chamber Flowmasters
Front: 225/60/15, Rear: 255/60/15 Eagle GT II
Weld wheels (15x6;15x8), 8.8" Rear w/ 3.55s
14 x 4” K&N air filter (getting the Xtreme setup someday)

"Red, thou art my companion. Hasten now your quickened metamorphosis to Green that I may conquer all who dare abide there beside me. May they be left thither behind burnt black." ---Fox Body

[This message has been edited by Fox Body (edited 07-25-2001).]

[Power]

Hey bro, check your inbox.