you will NOT believe this... dyno results

[fiveohpatrol]

i went up to a dyno today with a friend (302man), his friend from work has an 88GT with a brand new 302 block, 347 crank (still 4.00"bore), edel. 6037 heads, F-cam, 75mm MAF, 75mm TB, all with the STOCK intake, for some reason, the guy he got the car from built this motor with all new parts and must have run out of cash to get a new intake. anyway, about the dyno runs...

the first pull is at a base 10deg timing, which is where he had been driving it, so we wanted to see what it was making there, we all knew it wasnt gonna be too great with the stock intake on there

the ONLY thing we changed for the second run is the timing, bumped to 14deg and ran it again,

we all about crapped our pants when we saw the numbers, 40.1hp and 34.1 lb-ft increase!
there is no way i would ever believe this if i hadn't been there and participated
the third run was just for fun, the engine had heated up so thats why it lost a few hp

this thing would probably pick up about 50-60hp with a good intake on it. talk about breathing through a straw, this is more like breathing through a coffee stirrer

the attached file is the horsepower dyno sheet

[fiveohpatrol]

Again the mods are

New 5.0 block 4.00 bore
KB hypereutectic pistons
3.4 " stroke crank
H beam rods
342ci
Edelbrock 6037 heads 1.9 intake
pedestal mount rockers
1.6 roller rockers
30lb injectors
C/L 75mm TB
75mm TB
Stock upper and lower intake
1 5/8" equal length shorty's
off road H pipe
flowmaster 2 chambers/no tail pipes
AC delete and smog pump delete kits

i also attached the torque dyno sheet

[exgmguy]

That thing does make some nice torque! I believe the power increase. My car runs considerably slower at 10 degrees that at 15.

That is pretty good power for a stock intake too. That big cube motor would love a Holley, or a Performer RPM. Then you'll easily see 320 or so at the wheels. Add some tuning and who knows, 330? 340?


Nice.

[2FastLX]

You had me fooled. I came in here thinking you took your car to the Dyno Drew. That's a pretty good gain for just timing huh.

Tell Tim I said Hi. Send me his email if you would. I have a question for him.

[SaleenGTS]

264 rwhp with a stroker???? The Intake is killing him get a holley or TFS if money is a problem.....he needs a cam too. There is A LOT of hidden horsepower waiting to be unleashed. I made 379 rwhp with my setup without the blower, so he can get good power.

[Stang Runner]

On my car I did a Run at 8 timming and moved it to 13 and Got a .4 better in the 1/4

[Unit 5302]

30lb/hr injectors with 320hp at the crank? I hope he plans on getting closer to 350rwhp or so. Those 30lbers are way too big for his current application.

The intake is more likely to give him 40hp. Holy restriction Batman!

[302man]

Unit5320 : About the 30lb injectors being to big ???? Why ??? If the car runs lean at idle (which it does) and runs in the 12's for the air fuel ratio at wide open throttle. (which it does) I would safely say he currently has a good mass air meter that is doing its job correctly. Besides, what size injectors do the lightening trucks have in their engines............................. Again , this guy is a new stanger and he just wanted to see what he had. Drew and I preached the gospil on the intake. Hope he listens.

[Rebel79]

Yes the 30's are WAY too big for the horsepower he is producing. The horsepower he is making is pretty pathetic for a 347 stroker. With an excellent setup one can make 400rwhp with a N/A 347. He REALLY needs to get a cam and an intake. Once he does that, then the 30's will come in handy.

[fiveohpatrol]

im gonna ask the same question, why do you think the injectors are too big? even if they are, they wont be when he gets a good intake on there and sprays his nitrous (which he has now, just not on the dyno run)

check out the a/f ratio chart and then decide if the injectors are too big

[srv1]

does he have an adjustable fuel regulator? power can be made there also.

[Hyper92GT]

The injectors are way to big in the current set-up...I'm still running 19lbs with quite a bit more power than him (and I didnt do any tuning on the dyno)
BUT, with nitruous, intake and tuning 30lbers should work well. It is always good to buy the larger injectors if you intend on a power adder..they just are a little big right now (IMHO).

[fiveohpatrol]

no he doesnt have a fpr right now but its on his list of things to get

for those of you that think the 30lb'ers are too big right now, take a look at the wideband.jpg picture, its not a great picture but you can still tell that his a/f ratio throughout most of the rpm range is great.

now wouldnt it show alot richer if the 30's are too big?

just because some people say "hey you HAVE to have 400+ hp to run blah blah blah injectors" it isnt always the case. in this case, his 30 lb injectors are providing his engine with the right amount of fuel. Im not saying that even 19lb'ers wouldnt work just as well for the setup he has right now. stop saying the injectors are killing him, they're not.

He could put 24s or 19s on there and not lose any power but he wont gain any either.

the guy he got it from obviously knew what he was doing, (besides the intak) and knew that the injectors are perfect for a pretty well built 342 and just hadn't got a good intake yet.

[Unit 5302]

Here's the deal. I hate to say it, but that combo is pretty mismatched. He could be running stock injectors with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator at that hp level. 19lbers set to 58psi would get him about the same injector cycle and computer ability to compensate as stock. 24lb/hr injectors are almost right on at stock pressure.

The 30lb/hr injectors are probably beyond the computers ability to adjust injection cycles properly. What's fuel pressure set at? Stock 39psi regulator, or has it been adjusted? With 30lb injectors to simulate the stock injector cycle, it would need to be set around 23psi.

If your pressure is too low, you wind up getting a very poor spray pattern. Think of it like dripping fuel into the intake instead of a fine mist. The more pressure, the better mist (atomization) of the fuel you will get. Most fuel pressure regulators adjust to about 60psi. I've heard the injectors are good for up to 100psi, but running them up there wouldn't be the best idea in my opinion. When your fuel isn't properly atomized, it won't burn completely, or fast, and you'll lose power, fuel economy, and throttle response.

Here's the problem with the combo. The heads are too small for an optimized setup without serious porting (even then not the most powerful heads out there), and they are way to big for the stock intake. The injectors will always be too big for the N/A setup, but too small for a blown combo 347. The cam you didn't mention? If it's the stock cam, it's too small for the heads, okay for the intake, but it will never make the kind of power you want with that engine. If it's a big cam, (could be too big for the heads, which in turn will be WAY too big for the intake) Now, don't get me wrong, if what he wants to build is a torquemonster 347 with stock engine charachteristics only magnified, swapping to a ported Cobra intake, or going to a middle sized aftermarket intake will put him there with relatively mild cam, but the combo right now is deficient in some areas, and overkill in others.

[Unit 5302]

The 30lb/hr injectors are not "killing him" they just aren't right for the combo to make the most of it. You can look at that wideband O2 all day long, what you're not seeing is the computer working at it's limits to adjust properly.

[Hyper92GT]

I believe he said F cam.
Yes it is mismatched - 75MM TB down to stock intake then small valved heads. But it looks like a work in progress. Get an intake port those heads and watch out!

[Kponti]

Originally posted by Hyper92GT
I believe he said F cam.
Yes it is mismatched - 75MM TB down to stock intake then small valved heads. But it looks like a work in progress. Get an intake port those heads and watch out!

Thank U!!!

Jeez guys, he just wanted to post how much a simple thing as timing did for the car. ~40RWHP increase with ZERO dollars is nothing to sneeze at (even if it is still less than my car would have made on a dyno with a 302 )

In my opinion everything ie heads, cam, intake, exhaust (header size) is too small for his application, but I am sure he already knows that

BTW to the guy that started this thread, that is badass, that goes to show how much U can increase power if U have a dyno to help tune. Hell I think porting those heads will be a waste of money. Get some better heads IMHO etc, but like I said he already probably knows that.

[Unit 5302]

Pointing out changes that should be made to make the combo run hard isn't always about ripping on people. In this case I think there was just a ton of people trying to make sure the next time he see's the dyno, it's 350RWHP+.

[andy669]

I dont see why everyone is so set on the injectors being too big. True, the analyzer says that its over injected, but look at the A/F. That doesnt lie! I would much rather have my injectors working at about a 70% duty cycle, than 100%!
andy

[Unit 5302]

Yes the air/fuel ratio is between 12:1 and 13:1 throughout most of the test in all the runs.

The computer is at it's MAXIMUM ability to adjust for that kind of horsepower. You're asking it to compensate about 40% of it's normal injection cycle to keep the fuel ratio proper.

The 19lb/hr injector would be running at 98.5% of it's capability at 60psi to maintain a harmony with the stock injection cycle. It would also be at 77% of it's safe delivery capacity.

The 24lb/hr injector would be running at 78% of it's capabiltity at 60psi to maintain a harmony with the stock injection cycle. It would also be at 60% of it's safe delivery capacity.

The 30lb/hr injector would be running at 62% of it's capability at 60psi to maintain a harmony with the stock injection cycle. It would also be at 48% of it's safe delivery capacity.

He's asking the computer to adjust the same amount as if he kept the 19lb/hr injectors on the car and the stock FPR right now. The computer can only adjust so much. It's got some safety margin built in, but if that's exceeded, (which by the air/fuel ratio graph, looks like he's on the edge to me) his car will lose performance, and certainly fuel economy, etc.

It's overkill, and in this case too much isn't always a good thing.