Tfs Stage 1 To X-303 Back To Tfs Stage 1

ballistic_331LX · 06-07-2002, 09:19 PM

OK here is whats up...

92 lLX
331, 9:0.1 compression
AFR 185's
edelbrock rpm intake
70mm TB
75mm MAF
24lb injectors
adjustable regualtor
TFS stage 1 .499/.510 221/226 @ .050 duration
1 5/8 equal length shorties
h-pipes with singles cats
4.10's with Tremec
aftermarked coil

It makes some pretty damn good power on it plants pretty good to the pavement although, yes it spins most of first and lots in second gear.......i decided to throw the X-303 in...figuring it will be a lil more awesome in performance...well it was not...it actually caused me to lose power.....why? I have no clue...any ideas from anyone????? I went back to the TFS stage 1 and it kicks *** again. feed me some thoughts.....I wanted to look more into it but I only have one more week then I go on ship for 6 months to the mid-east......her i come Afghanistan!!!!!

Stroked408 · 06-07-2002, 10:58 PM

How do you have the cam installed? is it installed straight up? Most Motorsport cams run best installed straight up,all the alphabet cams run best this way,also your compression is way to low to run that cam,unless you are running juice or a blower,most NMRA/FFW Renegade cars run that cam or something close to it,since it sounds like you are running all motor 112 centerline cams do not like all motor combos,take a E303 for example lot of people think that cam is a wimp well it is not the cam works well with all motor combos,because of it's centerline which is only 110,I would install that cam straight up before I pull it,and run it that way,also make sure your electronics are up to the task also,and remember this bigger is not always better

ballistic_331LX · 06-08-2002, 12:20 AM

i installed the x-cam 4 degress advanced......a buddy of mine said try putting it back to straight up and I said good point but if it still has sub-par performance then i did the switch for nothing.....the tfs cam was in 4 advanced before the x-cam delima but i re-installed the tfs straight this time for more on the upper end and i took it for a test run a few hours ago and it is much better....thank god......hoping for 13.1's on street tires tomorrow......@ carlsbad i guess.....

Stroked408 · 06-08-2002, 12:30 AM

straight up is always a good starting point,my concern is your compression ratio with those heads,those AFR 185's are some big heads and they need air in them moving around,quick question when you switched the tranny out did you switch the computer out also? If you did not you are going to notice small pinging at the track tomorrow,in the upper rpm range because your computer is going to want to pull timing out thinking it is time to shift the tranny,maybe,maybe not if it was me I would get call up engine shop like Cam Motion,BES Racing,Fox Lake,USA Racing Engines and Glidden Racing Engines and shell out the bucks for a custom grind job,remember TFS makes killer cylinder heads,you don't see Comp Cams building cylinder heads do you? just my 2 pennies good luck on the track tomorrow but watch your plugs and listen for detonation at upper rpm's

ballistic_331LX · 06-08-2002, 12:44 AM

see.....it did ping/detonate at low speed rpms with the auto in it with the tfs cam and the heads on the stock block and it blew the head gaskets within a couple of thousand miles.........it still has the auto computer and i have not noticed the ping/detanate yet......i am suprised it runs as good as it does.......but yeah it will tack on a couple of hundred miles on it over the next week or so then it will sit for six months then in december I will obtain that 5 speed computer......i have heard that the aod computer screws with the ignition spark....spark advance..possibly what you were talking about........i have a air fuel ratio guage that hooks inline with the MAF sensor...will that help at all......it is a really cool piece from what i was told...thanks bro

Stroked408 · 06-08-2002, 01:11 AM

I see we are both up late tonight no biggie nothing I like more than helping a fellow Mustanger,this air fuel ratio can you change it? If you cannot change it then why bother looking at it,unless you have like a PMS,Extender,EPEC,or some other kind of stand alone fuel system,if you really get tired of dealing with the BS you can always put a carb on that bad boy not recommended if you live in a cold enviroment but power wise you would be in the high 450-490 range with a carb and 1 point of compression raised,if she does not ping on you at the track tomorrow watch the nose to see if it dips on you under acceleration,if it does abort the run,and just wait until you get back from where you are going and get an A9L (5-speed computer) auto computers are just a little to aggressive and are hard to override,once again good luck at the track watch your plugs,and try to keep your ears open,I want to keep getting post from you about your car later man

ballistic_331LX · 06-08-2002, 01:35 AM

that piece i have it adjustable and also has the setting on their to where you can set voltage on the MAF sensor.....i have not yet connected it because i just disconnected and sold a Ford motorsport SVO rpm extender with air/fuel controls on it to a good buddy of mine....i was gonna keep it but i got a good deal on it and passed it on to him because he needs more RPM than i do....but yeah i may head to ecology first thing in the morning and see if i can get lucky and spot a 5 speed computer and bolt it in (of course if i am lucky) and be set for whatever but from the way ecology is..there probably won't be one there.....actually i will take a trip there in the morning before the track...what do you think they charge for it.....20 bucks maybe?...i am hoping for a 13.4 - 13.1 at the track......the car moves pretty damn good...i also just threw on my 3 inch diameter crank pulley for a lil more kick just for the track......we'll see and i will definately see how she performs tomorrow.....keep ya posted for sure!!!!

byrnech · 06-08-2002, 02:20 AM

We'll just have to wait till tomorrow to see how we're running. No really though I ain't gonna run nothing impressive if I don't get some hook. I will be just checkin' the MPH. I am hoping for around 113 mph on the pep boy tires I gotz. That would be cool if someone had some slicks, I would almost be willing to let it ride to get a good run in there.

ballistic_331LX · 06-08-2002, 10:03 AM

go pick up the homies and go to the track....just installed a new FMS driveshaft....the last one was vibrating...i think it was because one of the weights fell off....plus i scored it from the mufflers when it was on the lift last year.........cross my fingers

Stroked408 · 06-08-2002, 10:23 AM

I have heard reports on those aluminum driveshafts for not weight being off,but some are not staright,check it for straightness,good luck at the track,the other brother ByrneCH 113 mph in the 1/4 you turn 113 mph you have one heckuva top end on that motor,good luck to you also,sounds like you all have some pretty stout cars there,wish you all well and be careful gents

ballistic_331LX · 06-09-2002, 05:38 PM

well....i made 3 passes at the track....traction loss was pretty obvious......

my first pass was 13.8 @103mph with .660 reaction
second pass was 13.7 @ 103mph with a .610 reaction
third pass was awesome....13.5 @103 with a .505 reaction....
i probably had the best reaction for the day.....i did no power shifting and had traction loss in first and second...second was only brief though

on the third pass as i crossed the finish line i looked at my oil pressure and there was 0 oil pressure.......i coasted back to the pit area and checked my guage and it was ok....then i had a buddy look at the mechanical line and as i started the motor for a couple second there was no oil feeding through the mechanical line.....so i said S$#t...i pulled the distributor off to see if i could see the pump shaft and its there but not sure if it is twisted or broke.......i saved the motor and will do a inspection when i pull the oil pan off......i did use the melling shaft that was supplied and should have bought a ARP piece i guess............i just got the car back an hour ago.......it is 3:35pm sunday!!!

91GTturbo · 06-09-2002, 06:33 PM

Sorry to hear about the problems, at least you caught it before it really messed anything up. I was honestly hoping you would come back and post some better numbers than you were anticipating in the other post.

I do have a couple of questions for you though. Why 9:1 compression unless your setting up for a power adder? If your staying NA, I would think something in the 10's would have been alot better.

Stroked408 · 06-09-2002, 08:16 PM

well that blows Ballistic331,so have you found out what it was yet? I hope for ease of replacement it is just the shaft then you can get it back up and running no time soon,13's granny shifting is not bad bro,as any gearhead knows powershifting is always good for 3-4 tenths,anyway keep us posted man

ballistic_331LX · 06-10-2002, 12:31 AM

hey whats up.....the car has 9 to 1 compression because i opted to go with it because it is my TOTAL reliable daily driver....plus it has the ROL head gaskets which is pretty much the thickest head gaskets out there.........in december when i fix the oil pressure problem i will also throw on a set of head gaskets from ford because i hear they are the thinnest and pretty much the strongest........yeah i granny shifted but i was pretty damn fast at it....i power shifted in to 4th gear once and ity was my last pass.....i know for sure i could have gotten my baby 2 to 3 tenths quicker....i was wanting a 13.1 o 13.4 and i was happy with the 13.5 after what happened...........I go on ship for 6 months on June 15th and will return in December.....the car will be garaged until then and thats when i will install that ARP pump shaft and return with sub 13.0 times.......GURANTEED....rememebr i have a relatively small cam in this motor of mine so i know i still can go a lil bigger respectively and the motor will like it...BUT i have tyo find the right cam....any ideas?????/ take care! Chris

Skyman · 06-10-2002, 03:01 AM

I wanna hit carlsbad again too, I was gonna say you should go too but your leaving.

Something is SERIOUSLY wrong with your motor.

103mph at carlsbad? It should be going 118.

My mild 302 goes 107.5 there. Somethings really wrong with your motor.

Skyler

ballistic_331LX · 06-10-2002, 07:46 AM

103 is not that bad...especially for the fact that i have not had great tuning done on it yet......i have a feeling i iwll be doing alot of tuning on it over the next year or so......she will get faster...guranteed

FivepointOH · 06-10-2002, 11:12 AM

Uhhh you're wrong 103 for a 331 with afrs is ****!! I've seen people with stock heads on a 302 hitting 103. Sky is right something way wrong with your motor. It should hit 12's at LEAST.

Skyman · 06-10-2002, 01:24 PM

Unless your running 1 degree of timing and 75psi fuel pressure, no amount of tuneing is going to fix it.

SKyler

91GTturbo · 06-10-2002, 04:06 PM

But according to Strocked408, tuning a NA combo is easy, might I say childs play, compared to a power adder car

. It should be easy for you guys to figure out.

Just giving you a hard time 408

.

Stroked408 · 06-10-2002, 07:19 PM

Okay for those that cannot read very well he said it was the first time he had it at the strip,now i do not know what planet you all come from,it takes more than 1 weekend at the dragstrip to tune a car,mind you I think Ballistic does all his own work,at least I think he does I have never met him but it sounds like it,9.1 compression 331 without a great tune 13.5's at 103 and you tuned it yourself how many other's here can say that?.......Probably not very many but that is just my opinion,Yeah I have seen stockers to also turn 103 in the 1/4 but there were a long way from stock,and please do not use the word stock unless you are talking straight off the dealer lot because as we all know you change anything on it,it has lost it's stock status,if you put slicks on it,it is not stock,if you put a K&N in it it is not stock,if it has 3.73 gears it is not stock shall I go on,so please easy with the word stock it really touches a nerve with me thanks LOL have a nice day

06-07-2002, 09:19 PM	#1
ballistic_331LX Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 28	Tfs Stage 1 To X-303 Back To Tfs Stage 1 OK here is whats up... 92 lLX 331, 9:0.1 compression AFR 185's edelbrock rpm intake 70mm TB 75mm MAF 24lb injectors adjustable regualtor TFS stage 1 .499/.510 221/226 @ .050 duration 1 5/8 equal length shorties h-pipes with singles cats 4.10's with Tremec aftermarked coil It makes some pretty damn good power on it plants pretty good to the pavement although, yes it spins most of first and lots in second gear.......i decided to throw the X-303 in...figuring it will be a lil more awesome in performance...well it was not...it actually caused me to lose power.....why? I have no clue...any ideas from anyone????? I went back to the TFS stage 1 and it kicks *** again. feed me some thoughts.....I wanted to look more into it but I only have one more week then I go on ship for 6 months to the mid-east......her i come Afghanistan!!!!!

06-07-2002, 10:58 PM	#2
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	How do you have the cam installed? is it installed straight up? Most Motorsport cams run best installed straight up,all the alphabet cams run best this way,also your compression is way to low to run that cam,unless you are running juice or a blower,most NMRA/FFW Renegade cars run that cam or something close to it,since it sounds like you are running all motor 112 centerline cams do not like all motor combos,take a E303 for example lot of people think that cam is a wimp well it is not the cam works well with all motor combos,because of it's centerline which is only 110,I would install that cam straight up before I pull it,and run it that way,also make sure your electronics are up to the task also,and remember this bigger is not always better __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

06-08-2002, 12:20 AM	#3
ballistic_331LX Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 28	see....maybe i screwed up!!! i installed the x-cam 4 degress advanced......a buddy of mine said try putting it back to straight up and I said good point but if it still has sub-par performance then i did the switch for nothing.....the tfs cam was in 4 advanced before the x-cam delima but i re-installed the tfs straight this time for more on the upper end and i took it for a test run a few hours ago and it is much better....thank god......hoping for 13.1's on street tires tomorrow......@ carlsbad i guess.....

06-08-2002, 12:30 AM	#4
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	straight up is always a good starting point,my concern is your compression ratio with those heads,those AFR 185's are some big heads and they need air in them moving around,quick question when you switched the tranny out did you switch the computer out also? If you did not you are going to notice small pinging at the track tomorrow,in the upper rpm range because your computer is going to want to pull timing out thinking it is time to shift the tranny,maybe,maybe not if it was me I would get call up engine shop like Cam Motion,BES Racing,Fox Lake,USA Racing Engines and Glidden Racing Engines and shell out the bucks for a custom grind job,remember TFS makes killer cylinder heads,you don't see Comp Cams building cylinder heads do you? just my 2 pennies good luck on the track tomorrow but watch your plugs and listen for detonation at upper rpm's __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

06-08-2002, 12:44 AM	#5
ballistic_331LX Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 28	damn.... see.....it did ping/detonate at low speed rpms with the auto in it with the tfs cam and the heads on the stock block and it blew the head gaskets within a couple of thousand miles.........it still has the auto computer and i have not noticed the ping/detanate yet......i am suprised it runs as good as it does.......but yeah it will tack on a couple of hundred miles on it over the next week or so then it will sit for six months then in december I will obtain that 5 speed computer......i have heard that the aod computer screws with the ignition spark....spark advance..possibly what you were talking about........i have a air fuel ratio guage that hooks inline with the MAF sensor...will that help at all......it is a really cool piece from what i was told...thanks bro

06-08-2002, 01:11 AM	#6
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	I see we are both up late tonight no biggie nothing I like more than helping a fellow Mustanger,this air fuel ratio can you change it? If you cannot change it then why bother looking at it,unless you have like a PMS,Extender,EPEC,or some other kind of stand alone fuel system,if you really get tired of dealing with the BS you can always put a carb on that bad boy not recommended if you live in a cold enviroment but power wise you would be in the high 450-490 range with a carb and 1 point of compression raised,if she does not ping on you at the track tomorrow watch the nose to see if it dips on you under acceleration,if it does abort the run,and just wait until you get back from where you are going and get an A9L (5-speed computer) auto computers are just a little to aggressive and are hard to override,once again good luck at the track watch your plugs,and try to keep your ears open,I want to keep getting post from you about your car later man __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

06-08-2002, 01:35 AM	#7
ballistic_331LX Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 28	the air/fuel ratio adjuster that piece i have it adjustable and also has the setting on their to where you can set voltage on the MAF sensor.....i have not yet connected it because i just disconnected and sold a Ford motorsport SVO rpm extender with air/fuel controls on it to a good buddy of mine....i was gonna keep it but i got a good deal on it and passed it on to him because he needs more RPM than i do....but yeah i may head to ecology first thing in the morning and see if i can get lucky and spot a 5 speed computer and bolt it in (of course if i am lucky) and be set for whatever but from the way ecology is..there probably won't be one there.....actually i will take a trip there in the morning before the track...what do you think they charge for it.....20 bucks maybe?...i am hoping for a 13.4 - 13.1 at the track......the car moves pretty damn good...i also just threw on my 3 inch diameter crank pulley for a lil more kick just for the track......we'll see and i will definately see how she performs tomorrow.....keep ya posted for sure!!!!

06-08-2002, 02:20 AM	#8
byrnech Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Anderson, TX. Posts: 166	We'll just have to wait till tomorrow to see how we're running. No really though I ain't gonna run nothing impressive if I don't get some hook. I will be just checkin' the MPH. I am hoping for around 113 mph on the pep boy tires I gotz. That would be cool if someone had some slicks, I would almost be willing to let it ride to get a good run in there. __________________ 331 10:1, AFR 185's, TFS-R intake

06-08-2002, 10:03 AM	#9
ballistic_331LX Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 28	on my way....to the track this morning go pick up the homies and go to the track....just installed a new FMS driveshaft....the last one was vibrating...i think it was because one of the weights fell off....plus i scored it from the mufflers when it was on the lift last year.........cross my fingers

06-08-2002, 10:23 AM	#10
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	I have heard reports on those aluminum driveshafts for not weight being off,but some are not staright,check it for straightness,good luck at the track,the other brother ByrneCH 113 mph in the 1/4 you turn 113 mph you have one heckuva top end on that motor,good luck to you also,sounds like you all have some pretty stout cars there,wish you all well and be careful gents __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

06-09-2002, 05:38 PM	#11
ballistic_331LX Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 28	track times and big problem well....i made 3 passes at the track....traction loss was pretty obvious...... my first pass was 13.8 @103mph with .660 reaction second pass was 13.7 @ 103mph with a .610 reaction third pass was awesome....13.5 @103 with a .505 reaction.... i probably had the best reaction for the day.....i did no power shifting and had traction loss in first and second...second was only brief though on the third pass as i crossed the finish line i looked at my oil pressure and there was 0 oil pressure.......i coasted back to the pit area and checked my guage and it was ok....then i had a buddy look at the mechanical line and as i started the motor for a couple second there was no oil feeding through the mechanical line.....so i said S$#t...i pulled the distributor off to see if i could see the pump shaft and its there but not sure if it is twisted or broke.......i saved the motor and will do a inspection when i pull the oil pan off......i did use the melling shaft that was supplied and should have bought a ARP piece i guess............i just got the car back an hour ago.......it is 3:35pm sunday!!!

06-09-2002, 06:33 PM	#12
91GTturbo Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Valdese, NC Posts: 361	Sorry to hear about the problems, at least you caught it before it really messed anything up. I was honestly hoping you would come back and post some better numbers than you were anticipating in the other post. I do have a couple of questions for you though. Why 9:1 compression unless your setting up for a power adder? If your staying NA, I would think something in the 10's would have been alot better. __________________ 91 single turbo vert

06-09-2002, 08:16 PM	#13
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	well that blows Ballistic331,so have you found out what it was yet? I hope for ease of replacement it is just the shaft then you can get it back up and running no time soon,13's granny shifting is not bad bro,as any gearhead knows powershifting is always good for 3-4 tenths,anyway keep us posted man __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

06-10-2002, 12:31 AM	#14
ballistic_331LX Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 28	fix it in december hey whats up.....the car has 9 to 1 compression because i opted to go with it because it is my TOTAL reliable daily driver....plus it has the ROL head gaskets which is pretty much the thickest head gaskets out there.........in december when i fix the oil pressure problem i will also throw on a set of head gaskets from ford because i hear they are the thinnest and pretty much the strongest........yeah i granny shifted but i was pretty damn fast at it....i power shifted in to 4th gear once and ity was my last pass.....i know for sure i could have gotten my baby 2 to 3 tenths quicker....i was wanting a 13.1 o 13.4 and i was happy with the 13.5 after what happened...........I go on ship for 6 months on June 15th and will return in December.....the car will be garaged until then and thats when i will install that ARP pump shaft and return with sub 13.0 times.......GURANTEED....rememebr i have a relatively small cam in this motor of mine so i know i still can go a lil bigger respectively and the motor will like it...BUT i have tyo find the right cam....any ideas?????/ take care! Chris

06-10-2002, 03:01 AM	#15
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	I wanna hit carlsbad again too, I was gonna say you should go too but your leaving. Something is SERIOUSLY wrong with your motor. 103mph at carlsbad? It should be going 118. My mild 302 goes 107.5 there. Somethings really wrong with your motor. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

06-10-2002, 07:46 AM	#16
ballistic_331LX Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 28	tuning process still 103 is not that bad...especially for the fact that i have not had great tuning done on it yet......i have a feeling i iwll be doing alot of tuning on it over the next year or so......she will get faster...guranteed

06-10-2002, 11:12 AM	#17
FivepointOH Registered Member Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Sugar Land, Tx USA Posts: 478	Uhhh you're wrong 103 for a 331 with afrs is ****!! I've seen people with stock heads on a 302 hitting 103. Sky is right something way wrong with your motor. It should hit 12's at LEAST.

06-10-2002, 01:24 PM	#18
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Unless your running 1 degree of timing and 75psi fuel pressure, no amount of tuneing is going to fix it. SKyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

06-10-2002, 04:06 PM	#19
91GTturbo Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Valdese, NC Posts: 361	But according to Strocked408, tuning a NA combo is easy, might I say childs play, compared to a power adder car . It should be easy for you guys to figure out. Just giving you a hard time 408 . __________________ 91 single turbo vert Last edited by 91GTturbo; 06-10-2002 at 04:23 PM..

06-10-2002, 07:19 PM	#20
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	Okay for those that cannot read very well he said it was the first time he had it at the strip,now i do not know what planet you all come from,it takes more than 1 weekend at the dragstrip to tune a car,mind you I think Ballistic does all his own work,at least I think he does I have never met him but it sounds like it,9.1 compression 331 without a great tune 13.5's at 103 and you tuned it yourself how many other's here can say that?.......Probably not very many but that is just my opinion,Yeah I have seen stockers to also turn 103 in the 1/4 but there were a long way from stock,and please do not use the word stock unless you are talking straight off the dealer lot because as we all know you change anything on it,it has lost it's stock status,if you put slicks on it,it is not stock,if you put a K&N in it it is not stock,if it has 3.73 gears it is not stock shall I go on,so please easy with the word stock it really touches a nerve with me thanks LOL have a nice day __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

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