Conversion to R134?

90'5.0 Conv · 05-20-2002, 08:34 PM

What do I need to buy? I've talked to people that say get the conversion kit and some just say evacuate the system and put in the oil and new refridgerant. Does anyone know exactly what I NEED to get?

Thanks, James

Unit 5302 · 05-20-2002, 09:51 PM

To get the most out of the conversion, you should vacuum the system first. Then get the complete kit, which will include 2 cans of R134A, and the Oil Charge, which is absolutely necessary. The oil charge is a seal conditioner and system lubricant. If you don't add it, you'll probably destroy your compressor in short order.

You may want to pick up another can of R134A as well. I've seen the full kit as cheap as $34.99 at Wal Mart a year or two ago.

Mach 1 · 05-20-2002, 10:09 PM

You need the kit just for the adapters that come with it. They allow the r-134 can to fit on your r-12 fittings. The cans use different servicing hoses and style connectors.

You dont need the oil additive, and I would even say dont use it, as this tends to clog up the screen in one of the lines (cant remember off the top of my head, but its the line going from the condenser to the reciever/drier I think. it has a screen in it, and likes to clog up when shooting that oil shot in there, so I say skip the oil charge. (seen it clog up in 3 out of the 4 conversions I did)

All you really need is the adapter fittings, servicing hose, and the cans of 134. 2 cans is normally enough, but you might need three.

If the screen clogs up in the line, your a/c will not blow cold at all, and then you have to change the line also.

Getting it vacuumed down is also a good idea for optimal performance, but not required.

Unit 5302 · 05-20-2002, 10:19 PM

I've always been told that the compressor would destroy itself if it wasn't lubricated. If it's been done without the charge, then maybe it's overrated.

I've done 3 conversions and used the oil charge every time. Always blew very cold air. By cold I mean driving across the New Mexico desert in August I had to turn the A/C down, LOL.

Mach 1 · 05-21-2002, 07:29 AM

The compressor is lubricated. There is still oil in the system. Unless you drain the oil charge and all the residual oil throughout the lines and components, it should have sufficient oil in it already. That shot they give you with the kit is like a "top off" refresher shot I guess.

briand · 05-21-2002, 08:10 AM

you should also change all o-rings in the system, with the new ones supplied in the retrofit kit you buy

jimberg · 05-21-2002, 09:55 AM

Hmm, I thought you have to replace the oil since the oil they use for R12 is not compatible with R134a and will deteriorate. R134a isn't as stable as R12 is.

You may also want to consider switching to DuraCool as an option. This is a HC based refrigerant instead of an HFC based refrigerant . It should be as simple as charging the system. It should also cool better than both R12 and R134a.

http://www.duracool.com/

I haven't tried it yet, but I think I'm going to.

Maroon 5.0 LX · 05-21-2002, 10:02 AM

I'm fixin' to change mine over. It's getting all new R-134 compatable seals, new drier, flush out all old oil and R-12 junk from compressor and lines, evacuate to remove any moisture, install R-134 oil, and recharge.

Mach 1 · 05-21-2002, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimberg
Hmm, I thought you have to replace the oil since the oil they use for R12 is not compatible with R134a and will deteriorate. .

Well, im not an expert on the subject, but I believe that to be hype. Maybe PKRWUD would know, since he owns a shop?

andy669 · 05-21-2002, 01:44 PM

When the 134A was first released they were saying the ester oil that this refrigerant takes would eat up all the seals in the old 12 systems. So what Jimberg said is what I have always believed to be true.

After hearing from several people that the switchover is as simple as dumping the old and putting in the new, I would have to believe it works.

andy

90'5.0 Conv · 05-21-2002, 03:04 PM

I guess I'll go with the wal mart kit since it has the fittings I need and already comes with the oil. I'll pick up an extra bottle of freon also. I hope I don't need to change out the O- rings. If I do, I guess I'll do it after they deteriorate which hopefully won't be too soon

I also thought you had to use the new oil with the new refridgerant. What's the deal with that? Thanks for the input.

Later, James

jimberg · 05-21-2002, 03:14 PM

We're still working on that. I will say that using the new oil is also meant to coat the o-rings so that they don't deteriorate.

90'5.0 Conv · 05-21-2002, 03:28 PM

Jimberg: How much is that Duracool? Looks to be the future in Refridgerant from all I've read about it. Sounds good but anything that sounds that good has to cost more than what I can pay.

Thanks for your help, James

jimberg · 05-21-2002, 03:39 PM

You can buy the stuff from www.duracoolusa.com. The quick fix kit is only $47.45 including shipping. It includes 3 6oz cans and the tool to charge the system.

Unit 5302 · 05-21-2002, 11:54 PM

Pffftttt... Don't listen to jimberg I see he's from Minnesota. They don't even need air conditioning there. I live way south of him and until a few days ago I hadn't hardly seen 70*.

Seriously, nice to see you posting, man!

jimberg · 05-22-2002, 12:06 AM

Hey, Unit. Yeah, I guess I tend to post more during the summer. Probably because it's time to do work on the car. The American Ford 4th Annual Mustang Show is on June 9th. Are you going to attend this year?

red82gt · 05-22-2002, 12:41 AM

This is the info I got from a guy named Glenn, who posts a lot on the corral and works in the A/C field for a living.
He recommends flushing the condenser and the compresser and replacing the liquid line. Replace all the o-rings (It's not difficult, maybe will take an hour or two), have the system vacuumed out and then charge it up using the combination oil that is designed for the retrofit kit. R12 uses a mineral oil and r134 uses an ester oil. These two are not compatible with each other and this is why you should flush the system and use the retrofit oil. The r134 will be able to escape right past the r12 o-rings and oil so unless you want to add a can of r134 a month, change the o-rings and use the right oil.

Also, if your A/C hasn't been working for a while, you'll want to replace the dryer or else the moisture will cause compressor failure within a couple of weeks.

As jimberg stated, there are drop in R12 replacements that work better than R12 and much better than R134. If I didn't live in Canada, I'd probably be using one of these but since they're hard to come by up here I'm stuck with R134.

90'5.0 Conv · 05-22-2002, 03:24 PM

Thanks for all the info red82gt. That really helps out alot and explains what I've been wondering about the oil and all. My system has zero freon in it right now. Is it considered evacuated? Also, the oil in the compressor, what do I need to do to drain it, take it off and empty it? I imagine the O-ring kit is available at any auto zone or discount auto parts stores.

James

Maroon 5.0 LX · 05-22-2002, 03:56 PM

Evacuation means you put a vacuum pump on the system to remove all the moisture.

90'5.0 Conv · 05-22-2002, 03:58 PM

I knew it was probably a stupid question but I had to ask

Thanks, James

05-20-2002, 08:34 PM	#1
90'5.0 Conv Long time member in and out Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Albany, Ga Posts: 343	Conversion to R134? What do I need to buy? I've talked to people that say get the conversion kit and some just say evacuate the system and put in the oil and new refridgerant. Does anyone know exactly what I NEED to get? Thanks, James __________________ 90' Mustang GT Convertible- C4 w/ manual body 4.10's soon to be 3.27's 2 Ch Flowmasters 1/8th ET 9.04

05-20-2002, 10:09 PM	#3
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	You need the kit just for the adapters that come with it. They allow the r-134 can to fit on your r-12 fittings. The cans use different servicing hoses and style connectors. You dont need the oil additive, and I would even say dont use it, as this tends to clog up the screen in one of the lines (cant remember off the top of my head, but its the line going from the condenser to the reciever/drier I think. it has a screen in it, and likes to clog up when shooting that oil shot in there, so I say skip the oil charge. (seen it clog up in 3 out of the 4 conversions I did) All you really need is the adapter fittings, servicing hose, and the cans of 134. 2 cans is normally enough, but you might need three. If the screen clogs up in the line, your a/c will not blow cold at all, and then you have to change the line also. Getting it vacuumed down is also a good idea for optimal performance, but not required. __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

05-21-2002, 07:29 AM	#5
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	The compressor is lubricated. There is still oil in the system. Unless you drain the oil charge and all the residual oil throughout the lines and components, it should have sufficient oil in it already. That shot they give you with the kit is like a "top off" refresher shot I guess. __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

05-21-2002, 08:10 AM	#6
briand Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Jackson, LA Posts: 264	you should also change all o-rings in the system, with the new ones supplied in the retrofit kit you buy __________________ GT-40X heads(58cc), Cobra upper and lower, 75 mm Bullet, Moroso fenderwell induction, FRPP 65mm TB, 24# injectors, black magic electric fan, phenolic spacer, 1.7 crane cobra roller rockers, crane 2031, BBK 1 5/8 equal length hearders, 2.5 inch off road pipe, 2.5 flowmaster catback, FMS 3.55 gears, T5-Z transmission, FRPP aluminum driveshaft, svo heavy duty clutch, mcleod bullet proff bellhousing, BBK adjustable cluth quadrant, hurst billet shifter, lakewood subframes, BBK strut tower brace, BBK 2pt lower cross bar, FMS 190 lph fuel pump, crane ps91 coil, FMS street pulleys, and 300+ race wires. All thanks goes to my wife sheri, jason, jeff, robby, my dad and all others you helped contribute. most importantly GOD!!!

05-21-2002, 09:55 AM	#7
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Hmm, I thought you have to replace the oil since the oil they use for R12 is not compatible with R134a and will deteriorate. R134a isn't as stable as R12 is. You may also want to consider switching to DuraCool as an option. This is a HC based refrigerant instead of an HFC based refrigerant . It should be as simple as charging the system. It should also cool better than both R12 and R134a. http://www.duracool.com/ I haven't tried it yet, but I think I'm going to. __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

05-20-2002, 09:51 PM	#2
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	To get the most out of the conversion, you should vacuum the system first. Then get the complete kit, which will include 2 cans of R134A, and the Oil Charge, which is absolutely necessary. The oil charge is a seal conditioner and system lubricant. If you don't add it, you'll probably destroy your compressor in short order. You may want to pick up another can of R134A as well. I've seen the full kit as cheap as $34.99 at Wal Mart a year or two ago.

05-20-2002, 10:19 PM	#4
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	I've always been told that the compressor would destroy itself if it wasn't lubricated. If it's been done without the charge, then maybe it's overrated. I've done 3 conversions and used the oil charge every time. Always blew very cold air. By cold I mean driving across the New Mexico desert in August I had to turn the A/C down, LOL.

05-21-2002, 10:02 AM	#8
Maroon 5.0 LX Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 471	I'm fixin' to change mine over. It's getting all new R-134 compatable seals, new drier, flush out all old oil and R-12 junk from compressor and lines, evacuate to remove any moisture, install R-134 oil, and recharge. __________________ '89 LX 5.0 - 5 speed. Original Owner '94 E-150 4.9 Hi-Top Conversion Van '06 Mustang V-6, 5 speed

05-21-2002, 01:44 PM	#10
andy669 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Moline Il Posts: 901	When the 134A was first released they were saying the ester oil that this refrigerant takes would eat up all the seals in the old 12 systems. So what Jimberg said is what I have always believed to be true. After hearing from several people that the switchover is as simple as dumping the old and putting in the new, I would have to believe it works. andy __________________ 88 coupe 91 LX NMRA Pure Street 5120

05-21-2002, 03:04 PM	#11
90'5.0 Conv Long time member in and out Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Albany, Ga Posts: 343	leaning toward the wal-mart kit I guess I'll go with the wal mart kit since it has the fittings I need and already comes with the oil. I'll pick up an extra bottle of freon also. I hope I don't need to change out the O- rings. If I do, I guess I'll do it after they deteriorate which hopefully won't be too soon I also thought you had to use the new oil with the new refridgerant. What's the deal with that? Thanks for the input. Later, James __________________ 90' Mustang GT Convertible- C4 w/ manual body 4.10's soon to be 3.27's 2 Ch Flowmasters 1/8th ET 9.04

05-21-2002, 03:14 PM	#12
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	We're still working on that. I will say that using the new oil is also meant to coat the o-rings so that they don't deteriorate. __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

05-21-2002, 03:28 PM	#13
90'5.0 Conv Long time member in and out Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Albany, Ga Posts: 343	Jimberg: How much is that Duracool? Looks to be the future in Refridgerant from all I've read about it. Sounds good but anything that sounds that good has to cost more than what I can pay. Thanks for your help, James __________________ 90' Mustang GT Convertible- C4 w/ manual body 4.10's soon to be 3.27's 2 Ch Flowmasters 1/8th ET 9.04

05-21-2002, 03:39 PM	#14
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	You can buy the stuff from www.duracoolusa.com. The quick fix kit is only $47.45 including shipping. It includes 3 6oz cans and the tool to charge the system. __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

05-21-2002, 11:54 PM	#15
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Pffftttt... Don't listen to jimberg I see he's from Minnesota. They don't even need air conditioning there. I live way south of him and until a few days ago I hadn't hardly seen 70*. Seriously, nice to see you posting, man!

05-22-2002, 12:06 AM	#16
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Hey, Unit. Yeah, I guess I tend to post more during the summer. Probably because it's time to do work on the car. The American Ford 4th Annual Mustang Show is on June 9th. Are you going to attend this year? __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

05-22-2002, 12:41 AM	#17
red82gt Sober voice of Reason Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Kelowna, B.C., Canada Posts: 1,514	This is the info I got from a guy named Glenn, who posts a lot on the corral and works in the A/C field for a living. He recommends flushing the condenser and the compresser and replacing the liquid line. Replace all the o-rings (It's not difficult, maybe will take an hour or two), have the system vacuumed out and then charge it up using the combination oil that is designed for the retrofit kit. R12 uses a mineral oil and r134 uses an ester oil. These two are not compatible with each other and this is why you should flush the system and use the retrofit oil. The r134 will be able to escape right past the r12 o-rings and oil so unless you want to add a can of r134 a month, change the o-rings and use the right oil. Also, if your A/C hasn't been working for a while, you'll want to replace the dryer or else the moisture will cause compressor failure within a couple of weeks. As jimberg stated, there are drop in R12 replacements that work better than R12 and much better than R134. If I didn't live in Canada, I'd probably be using one of these but since they're hard to come by up here I'm stuck with R134. __________________ 393W: AFR 205's, hydraulic roller, TKO600.

05-22-2002, 03:24 PM	#18
90'5.0 Conv Long time member in and out Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Albany, Ga Posts: 343	Thanks for all the info red82gt. That really helps out alot and explains what I've been wondering about the oil and all. My system has zero freon in it right now. Is it considered evacuated? Also, the oil in the compressor, what do I need to do to drain it, take it off and empty it? I imagine the O-ring kit is available at any auto zone or discount auto parts stores. James __________________ 90' Mustang GT Convertible- C4 w/ manual body 4.10's soon to be 3.27's 2 Ch Flowmasters 1/8th ET 9.04

05-22-2002, 03:56 PM	#19
Maroon 5.0 LX Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 471	Evacuation means you put a vacuum pump on the system to remove all the moisture. __________________ '89 LX 5.0 - 5 speed. Original Owner '94 E-150 4.9 Hi-Top Conversion Van '06 Mustang V-6, 5 speed

05-22-2002, 03:58 PM	#20
90'5.0 Conv Long time member in and out Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Albany, Ga Posts: 343	I knew it was probably a stupid question but I had to ask Thanks, James __________________ 90' Mustang GT Convertible- C4 w/ manual body 4.10's soon to be 3.27's 2 Ch Flowmasters 1/8th ET 9.04

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