Ok..now I am mad!! - Page 2

tireburner163 · 04-22-2002, 02:12 PM

A car is a car, if it's fast give it props. Honda, Ford, Chevy...who cares...if it's fast, it's fast.

1969Mach1 · 04-22-2002, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tireburner163
A car is a car, if it's fast give it props. Honda, Ford, Chevy...who cares...if it's fast, it's fast.

I agree with ya tireburner, I just hate ricers that don't know anything about cars and talk all this **** to make themselves sound good but when all they have is a whole lotta useless glowing lights, a fire extinguisher, and some yellow stickers with a huge wing on a front wheel drive car. Those are the ricers I hate, not the honda's that run good times. Back to Subaru's I think they are pretty good cars and for there times compared to price I think it's a pretty good deal aswell. Hell if ya get bored of doing 1/4 mile with it, ya can rally it too.

Take care all,
§am.

MidNiteBlu 5.0 · 04-22-2002, 05:03 PM

The WRX is a fast, very nice car. i would love to have one. I dont see the reasoning behind the whole ford vs. chevy thing and the import vs. domestic wars. Like tireburner said a fast car is a fast car and that is good. Plus the WRX is very quick, handles very well and is AWD. Plus it gets good gas mileage to boot. I so want one ALONG with my stang. If only i had more money...

All of you "american only, jap crap" people need to get your heads out of your a--es.

Later,
Nick

jimberg · 04-22-2002, 05:27 PM

I'm seriously considering the WRX as a car for my wife. I want her to have great acceleration and something that would drive well in the snow. The WRX meets those requirements. The 0-60 for those things is unbelievable. It makes me wonder if it would be possible to make a Mustang AWD.

Mach 1 · 04-22-2002, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr 5 0
Saying that buying a foreign car is somehow bad for America is naive and inaccurate.

Thats the point I was trying to make, unfortunately, Im not as well spoken as Mr 5 0. What he said hits the nail on the head.

"Ricers" are the idiots that ruin good cars with stickers, fart pipes, and wings. Dont let that sway you from Japenese car companies.

Unit 5302 · 04-22-2002, 11:51 PM

I think you could make a point in either direction about buying domestic, or buying foreign.

While much of the labor on some of the domestics is done in Canada and Mexico, the real money is made in the corporate arena. The guys in the HQ, the R&D guys, and the engineers. When you buy an import, you send the vast majority of the big dollar out to Japan. When you buy domestic, you send the large portion of the cost of the car back to the US, regardless of where it's built.

As far as the Japan vs USA in quality.... I don't know. There are a lot of problems with Japanese cars you never hear about. Everytime one of the big three screws up it's plastered all over the place. You don't hear when Honda or Toyota has a major recall. I've driven imports, and I've driven American. The import machine I had ('91 Ford Escort GT, everything on it was Mazda) was the biggest POS I've ever owned/worked on. It was also the only car until last week that I had ever purchased with under 100k. It had 64,000mi on it. I've driven my sisters Acura Integra around as well. Felt like my Escort. It required minimal maintenance, but it's only been on the road a bit. Her other Integra also required an alternator, water pump, and a couple other parts. The Mustang 5.0 has between a 4-5 star reliability record, which is as good as any import. The Corolla, until recently anyway, had average or below ratings for problems. I don't trust Consumer Reports either, though.

The new WRX is pretty cool, if you like a hollow go-kart. It's again, a lot like my little Escort was. More power, but same basic feel to me anyway. The sticker price on the ones I saw was about $25,500. I got my Mustang GT for $21,500 with the Mach 460, leather interior, and including the destination charge. The times I saw posted originally for the WRX were in the high 14's, although maybe people have figured out how to drive them better now? It would definately be a fun car in the winter, but honestly, I'd rather have a couple year old 2.5RS cause it doesn't look butt ugly. LOL.

I'd rather have an aging RWD Thunderbird, or Mustang than an aging FWD/AWD import. Those things are a real pain to crank wrenches on,

srv1 · 04-23-2002, 12:12 AM

its light, all wheel drive and it is a turbo. what else did you expect? nice car. i would definetly buy one. its a poor man's Porsche

Casper5.0 · 04-23-2002, 01:06 AM

I drove one of these, and i thought it was a decent car. It was fast, i will admit that. Dump the clutch at 5000 grand and it nearly blurs your vision (salesmen don't like it). I really didn't like the feel of the car however which keeps me loyal to stangs. It really did feel like i was driving an escort with a v8. It had real nice low end torque and alright hi end power. As for expensive parts, i would guess you could have one of those running high 12's for under $1000 on top of the $25500 you pay out the door. It's a great buy if you like the import (tiny interior, low feature) feel. By the way they handle and brake insanely well also , i couldn't belive the way The SOB cornered. Just my .02. No flame intended if someone gets offended.

RYAN

Bad89stang · 04-23-2002, 01:21 AM

I went to an autocross event that was held in a parking lot awhile back. There were a few WRX's out there right from the dealer to show off what they could do. They were in the top five for lap times! These cars went around the tight turns with the trailing wheel 4-5" in the air! Tire squeel was non-existant and when the car when down the straight... All that I could hear was BOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTT. Bad *** car. Too small for me though. I'll stick with the stang. Thank you drive through.

polara7777 · 04-23-2002, 04:22 AM

Just for everyones info Ford owns/ owns stock in the following companies: Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Mazda, Land Rover, Volvo, Jaguar, and Aston Martin.

GM cars and trucks are sold under the following brands: Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac, GMC, Saturn, Geo, Hummer, Saab, Opel, Vauxhall and Holden.

DaimlerChrysler: Chrysler, Dodge, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Setra, Frieghtliner, Sterling, Western Star Trucks, Jeep, Smart, and Maybach.

All common, mass produced, sold in the US automakers also have factories in the US. The only one I can think of off the top of my head that does not is Kia.

So given the above info, what really is an import or domestic now a days???

I enjoy driving muscle imports just as much as I do muscle domestics for different reasons. If I want to go screaming down a twisty back road, give me a quick, agile sport compact. If I want to go fast in a straight line give me a domestic muscle car. (Of course if I want to go flying down a twisty, curvey road I'd want to be on a bike anyway

) I'm not saying that there are no domestic twisty curvey type cars but most of them are out of financial reach of most young adults. Everyone has their prefrences. I personally despise GM but I won't hold it against any GM owners. They make some damn nice rides I just would never own one. Same with Honda.

I'm not trying to make anyone mad but this is how I look at it. There is not a defined import/domestic line anymore. Most use each others parts and are sold beside each other.

Have a good one and enjoy driving! No matter what it is. (Except maybe a Yugo, not much enjoyment there. Whoever heard of a hi-po Yugo??)

Mr 5 0 · 04-23-2002, 09:53 AM

Unit:

Car and Driver reported a 14.1 quarter-mile et on the Subaru WRX in October, 2001. 0-60 time was a righteous 5.4 seconds.

Front-wheel-drive vehicles are difficult to work on, granted. I hate 'em. Putting an alternator belt on my wife's Mazda 2.0 took over an hour! Parts can be expensive, too. A new muffler/tailpipe for that Mazda costs over $200. By comparison, a single muffler for my 5.0 costs about $50.

On the other hand, the car (bought new for $19,000. in 1995) has been a model of efficiency and reliability. 125,000 miles and aside from the usual brakes, exhaust, tire, belts and battery replacement, I've only had to replace a starter, the Mass Air Sensor unit - and little else. Starts and runs flawlessly, gets great gas mileage and passes emissions easily. A great utilitarian machine, which is what I - and most people - expect when they buy these vehicles. 'Looks' are secondary - and totally subjective, as we all know.

My Mustang (also bought new, in 1990) has, like most, been a five-star winner for reliability after 116,000 miles. Aside from normal lifespans of various parts (exhaust, brakes, clutch etc) requiring replacement I've had to replace almost nothing due to parts failure. The car is a joy to own in every respect, which is why I hang on to it after 12 years. I know the new Mustangs are vastly improved in most areas but the one I have is so good to me I simply cannot justify parting with it.

I maintain that the Japanese cars are of excellent quality but so are some American cars and everyone can find both a horror story and a success story on reliability in both camps.

I simply choose the car that fits my needs. I wouldn't buy a WRX because it's not the type of car I want, despite it's performance. Like you, I prefer the Mustang in every respect for a performance car.

On the other hand, when I buy a car for my wife, I need a different type of vehicle and if a Subaru happened to fill the needs we have, I would buy it. I don't care where it's manufactured.

I'll probably buy another (Ford-owned) Mazda, due to our good experience with the '95 626, but if an american-made vehicle came along that fit our needs and price range, I would consider it. No bias there, just practical use of our hard-earned car budget for what we need and what's the best buy, which is what I advised in my original post on this topic.

ultraflo · 04-23-2002, 11:23 AM

You guys disappoint me!! I will refrain from writing a book to explain myself as I believe it would be unnecessary and pointless.
(too late)

I am very well aware of the issues that have been discussed concerning our global economy and other relevant points made.

Thank you! Continue doing what you guys do best...
whatever that may be.

Have a nice day and happy motoring!

Mr 5 0 · 04-23-2002, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ultraflo

You guys disappoint me!! I will refrain from writing a book to explain myself as I believe it would be unnecessary and pointless.

I am very well aware of the issues that have been discussed concerning our global economy and other relevant points made.

Thank you! Continue doing what you guys do best...
whatever that may be.

Have a nice day and happy motoring!

I take it from this somewhat vague rant that you still believe in 'buying American' when making a car purchase just to make some sort of imagined patriotic point, regardless of value, quality or any other factors that go into buying a car.

I'm not surprised that you can't offer a cogent argument for that point of view as it's illogical, emotionally-driven and not sustainable considering the American hegemony in auto manufacturing, worldwide.

Happy Motoring to you, too, Yankee Doodle.

ultraflo · 04-24-2002, 12:47 AM

The Buick 3.8 is an outstanding motor
Chevrolet's Vortec motors are powerful and efficient
And of course, the 5.0L is my personal favorite...
Why Ford decided on the modular V8 is beyond my comprehension... remember my saying that I am a complete idiot?

I apologize that I am unable to make a convincing argument, or one that you are unable to relate to or understand for that matter. I am simply stating my opinion... Sometimes (most of the time actually) people get upset when I voice my opinion on various issues. Apparently I was able to get your attention (which elicited an emotional response, hence your reply to my post) or you would not have given me the time to respond to my "rant"

I am not "mad" at you Mr 5.0, I respect your opinion actually; though, I must say that I disagree with the current scenario in the automobile industry as a result of a global economy (where large companies/corporations move over-seas because of cheap labor and less taxation). Obviously this scenario relates to other industries as well (duh). ...and I am starting to write the book I claimed that would be pointless and unnecessary! (oops!)
Forgive me if you will...

Wishful thinking on my part... "buying American" that is...
That's all, nothing more!

"you can wish in one hand, and poop in the other... and see which one fills up first" ya dig?

On with your verbal abuse... I guess you won't be slinking away from this one, will you

BTW, I'm not that much of a Yankee, more of a redneck hill-billy.
Yippe-ki-yi-yah mo foker!

(joking)

You guys do remember WW2 happening? Getting bombed by Japanese, and several years later everyone's buying their product, even large corporations, irony... That is what disappoints me! That is my rant.

Yak at you guys later! And sorry for writing a damn book! Y'all just misunderstood me...

Mercury · 04-24-2002, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ultraflo

You guys do remember WW2 happening? Getting bombed by Japanese, and several years later everyone's buying their product, even large corporations, irony... That is what disappoints me! That is my rant.

One should becarefull when mentioning WW2 and our current trade with Japan. You will put your foot in your mouth before you even open it.

In my opinion... Such reasoning is disgusting. I doubt your old enough to "Remember" World War 2. Maybe you didnt know or here how the Americans treated Japenesse Americans during WW2. How about the Atomic Bomb??? Not one, but two of them were dropped on the Japanesse. In that short video you might of scene in a high school class, or on the history channel, did you even think about those how many people ceased to exist during those brief moments????

As for Pearl Harbor, have you ever heard of the proof, or the theory behind how the government knew before hand that it was going to take place???? How the clues and hints were dropped by the Japenesse way before hand?

I would like to know what relavance Pearl Harbor should have with our current relations with Japan. Do you have a Playstation, or a Nintendo?? How about a Sony TV, or stereo. Maybe Toshiba or Aiwa?

Harboring such feelings does nothing to help bring the world closer together. If you prefer to look at it that way, then look at we Americans did to the Native Americans. Look at what we Americans did to one another (Civil War), and look at what we Americans did to One another again (Segergation, racism).

Let he with out sin cast the first stone.

Mach 1 · 04-24-2002, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ultraflo

...and I am starting to write the book I claimed that would be pointless and unnecessary! (oops!)

Well at least we agree on something...

Mr 5 0 · 04-24-2002, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by ultraflo

remember my saying that I am a complete idiot?

You're forcing us to remember.

I apologize that I am unable to make a convincing argument, or one that you are unable to relate to or understand for that matter.

Apology accepted. No problem.

I am simply stating my opinion... Sometimes (most of the time actually) people get upset when I voice my opinion on various issues.

Ever consider that it may because it's based on false assumptions and mostly wrong?

Apparently I was able to get your attention (which elicited an emotional response, hence your reply to my post) or you would not have given me the time to respond to my "rant"

I hate to let misguided comments and opinions go unanswered. Emotion was not a factor in my replies, facts were.

I am not "mad" at you Mr 5.0, I respect your opinion...

Never claimed you were mad about anything and thanks for the compliment.

I must say that I disagree with the current scenario in the automobile industry as a result of a global economy... (where large companies/corporations move over-seas because of cheap labor and less taxation). Obviously this scenario relates to other industries as well (duh).

The bulk of the profits come back to America and the companies still pay taxes on them. UAW jobs are lost but with automation, not as many as you would think. Cars are not made by hand anymore.

...and I am starting to write the book I claimed that would be pointless and unnecessary! (oops!)
Forgive me if you will...

Yes you are and yes, I will.

Wishful thinking on my part... "buying American" that is...That's all, nothing more!

Fine.

"you can wish in one hand, and poop in the other... and see which one fills up first" ya dig?

I think I saw that 'saying' in a fortune cookie I had last week.

On with your verbal abuse... I guess you won't be slinking away from this one, will you

That's uncalled for. Disagreement and presenting a logical argument is not 'verbal abuse' my friend. I did not engage in name-calling much less character attacks, I simply offered reasons why I thought you were wrong in your assumptions and conclusions. If you wish to debate, you'll need a thicker skin.

As for 'slinking away'; when I'm mistaken in my facts, I admit it and take responsibity for it, with some grace and humor, hopefully. I don't abandon a discussion just because someone else disagrees although I won't tolerate name-calling and hysteria pretending it's logic.

BTW, I'm not that much of a Yankee, more of a redneck hill-billy.
Yippe-ki-yi-yah mo foker! (joking)

O.K.

You guys do remember WW2 happening? Getting bombed by Japanese, and several years later everyone's buying their product, even large corporations, irony... That is what disappoints me! That is my rant.

If that's your 'rant', it's absurd and really just xenophobia masquarading as patriotism.

World War II ended 57 years ago. America was bombed once, we bombed Japan almost into oblivion, which was necessary to defeat a very determined people who had chosen to become our enemy and attack us. That's war. We defeated Japan, the Emperor renounced his 'divinity', the Allies wrote a new constitution for Japan (no military, free elections) and we've been at peace ever since. A testament to the intelligence of both sides, in my opinion.

To drag up a six-decade-old long since settled war as a rationale for boycotting Japanese products is, well, just illogical. If you're really serious about that mindset, you had better get rid of your TV, computer, CD player, Nike's and a ton of other stuff that is 'Made in Japan'.

Sorry, I cannot accept 'World War II', which we won, as a reason to 'buy American' beyond all reason. using that reasoning, we shouldn't trade with England, either. Remember the Revolutionary War?

Your argument would also have to include Germany and all those BMW's and Mercedes and lesser cars we buy from them. Italy is also on the Axis list. There go a lot more products, including Ferrarri's, I guess. Where does it end and what is the point? None that makes much sense. Once a war is won things change as the 'enemy' government that caused the war is always gone; killed in battle, suicide (Hitler) or hung for war crimes (most of the German High Command). We move on from there. You should try it.

'Buying Chinese' is a better example of trading with the enemy and I do have reservations about that - but in a global economy it's very difficult to avoid not buying foreign-made goods - of any type. This is a fact of life. We like those cheap jeans and other products made overseas so they sell, by the millions. The Japanese cars are simply good value, nothing more - or less.

Y'all just misunderstood me...

I think not - but thanks for your contributions. We don't have to agree on everything to be friends and part of the Mustang 'fraternity'.

Crazy Horse GT · 04-24-2002, 09:20 AM

i guess since i'm from the south i can't buy anything made in the north now,because of the civil war? i cant root for the red wing's, or ny yankee's? oh no my mustang was made in michigan

, guess i have to buy a saturn, or a nissan -made in tn, hahaha

Mach 1 · 04-24-2002, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr 5 0

'Buying Chinese' is a better example of trading with the enemy and I do have reservations about that - but in a global economy it's very difficult to avoid not buying foreign-made goods - of any type. .

Just a side note/comment on that...When I buy something, I usually look at the sticker to see where it was made, just for the heck of it, and EVERYTHING I have bought recently is made in China.

I remember "Made in Mexico" used to be common, but I seriously believe that out of the last 100 things I have purchased, at least 99% of them were made in China, if not 100%

Whats goin on here? Does China have the market on manufacturing for just about every product sold in the USA these days?

Mr 5 0 · 04-24-2002, 02:45 PM

Whats goin on here? Does China have the market on manufacturing for just about every product sold in the USA these days?

It does seem that way and it's a fact that American manufacturing, in general, has largely moved to foreign countries, especially China.

The biggest cost of manufacturing is usually the labor - people. China offers hard-working people who work more than eight hours a day, don't get minimum wage, three weeks vacation a year, or holidays off, much less any medical benefits (it's a socialist state). No Social Security or Unemployment taxes to pay, either. A businessman's dream, which is why they go to China for cheap labor.

Even with import taxes and the U.S. taxes the American companies pay, it's still a bargain for the employeer and the China economy benefits greatly.

On the other side of that coin, manufacturers can offer Americans' goods that are a whole lot cheaper than before, as the labor savings are partially passed down to the consumer. You can buy a 13" TV for next to nothing, today. Made in China. Lots of the sneakers and hip clothes we buy are 'Made in China', keeping the price reasonable if it doesn't have a fancy-name label.

It's a win-win, to a point, but China is a rabidly communist country with an aging, dictatorial , unelected 'leadership' that both fears and distrusts the United States. Chinese are pretty much slaves in their own country, despite the happy face the government attempts to put on it's oppression. Try saying a bad word against the government in China and you'll 'disappear'.

China's leaders have territorial designs, too. Worst of all, the Chinese have nukes. They are not to be trusted, in my opinion, and all this feverish 'trading' we do with them makes me a bit nervous, as we may be financing them for a war some black day in the future. Hopefully not.

Mexico is still a popular cheap-labor source but I've heard that the lack of a cultural work ethic made operating a factory on schedule a problem when dealing with folks who tended to wander in and out and come to work when they felt like it, if at all. Hence, China looked pretty good with obedient workers that didn't dare question anything asked of them and were grateful for the opportunity to make some money as there was no drug money to be had, as in Mexico, at least not by the average Chinese peasant.

So, next time we buy that 'cheap' item that says 'Made in China', think about some poor Chinese peasant slaving away for pennies to make it, then, be glad you're not them - and enjoy it.

04-22-2002, 02:12 PM	#21
tireburner163 It's a lot like a race car Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Meridian, MS Posts: 4,130	A car is a car, if it's fast give it props. Honda, Ford, Chevy...who cares...if it's fast, it's fast. __________________ 1987 Buick T-type 1998 HD Electra Elide

04-22-2002, 05:03 PM	#23
MidNiteBlu 5.0 I got something to say Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,557	The WRX is a fast, very nice car. i would love to have one. I dont see the reasoning behind the whole ford vs. chevy thing and the import vs. domestic wars. Like tireburner said a fast car is a fast car and that is good. Plus the WRX is very quick, handles very well and is AWD. Plus it gets good gas mileage to boot. I so want one ALONG with my stang. If only i had more money... All of you "american only, jap crap" people need to get your heads out of your a--es. Later, Nick __________________ 91 LX Hatch 5.0 - made for the twisties 89 LX Hatchback 5.0 5spd. stolen/stripped 4/7/05 http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/...splay.cgi?3494 1987 Toyota Pickup Ricer Haters Club Member #33 Want a custom gauge cluster for your Vintage Mustang? www.jmeenterprises.com

04-22-2002, 05:27 PM	#24
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	I'm seriously considering the WRX as a car for my wife. I want her to have great acceleration and something that would drive well in the snow. The WRX meets those requirements. The 0-60 for those things is unbelievable. It makes me wonder if it would be possible to make a Mustang AWD. __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

04-23-2002, 12:12 AM	#27
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	wrx? its light, all wheel drive and it is a turbo. what else did you expect? nice car. i would definetly buy one. its a poor man's Porsche __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

04-23-2002, 01:06 AM	#28
Casper5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Stillwater, OK Posts: 107	I drove one of these, and i thought it was a decent car. It was fast, i will admit that. Dump the clutch at 5000 grand and it nearly blurs your vision (salesmen don't like it). I really didn't like the feel of the car however which keeps me loyal to stangs. It really did feel like i was driving an escort with a v8. It had real nice low end torque and alright hi end power. As for expensive parts, i would guess you could have one of those running high 12's for under $1000 on top of the $25500 you pay out the door. It's a great buy if you like the import (tiny interior, low feature) feel. By the way they handle and brake insanely well also , i couldn't belive the way The SOB cornered. Just my .02. No flame intended if someone gets offended. RYAN __________________ 94 cobra, steeda tri-ax, bbk longtubes, dr. gas x pipe, eec tuner, ultra flo's, 65 mm tb, underdrives, 75 mm MAF, homemade CAI, steeda #19 cam, Steeda LCA's, 3.73's, subframes 13.7 @ 103.03 before cam and gears

04-22-2002, 11:51 PM	#26
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	I think you could make a point in either direction about buying domestic, or buying foreign. While much of the labor on some of the domestics is done in Canada and Mexico, the real money is made in the corporate arena. The guys in the HQ, the R&D guys, and the engineers. When you buy an import, you send the vast majority of the big dollar out to Japan. When you buy domestic, you send the large portion of the cost of the car back to the US, regardless of where it's built. As far as the Japan vs USA in quality.... I don't know. There are a lot of problems with Japanese cars you never hear about. Everytime one of the big three screws up it's plastered all over the place. You don't hear when Honda or Toyota has a major recall. I've driven imports, and I've driven American. The import machine I had ('91 Ford Escort GT, everything on it was Mazda) was the biggest POS I've ever owned/worked on. It was also the only car until last week that I had ever purchased with under 100k. It had 64,000mi on it. I've driven my sisters Acura Integra around as well. Felt like my Escort. It required minimal maintenance, but it's only been on the road a bit. Her other Integra also required an alternator, water pump, and a couple other parts. The Mustang 5.0 has between a 4-5 star reliability record, which is as good as any import. The Corolla, until recently anyway, had average or below ratings for problems. I don't trust Consumer Reports either, though. The new WRX is pretty cool, if you like a hollow go-kart. It's again, a lot like my little Escort was. More power, but same basic feel to me anyway. The sticker price on the ones I saw was about $25,500. I got my Mustang GT for $21,500 with the Mach 460, leather interior, and including the destination charge. The times I saw posted originally for the WRX were in the high 14's, although maybe people have figured out how to drive them better now? It would definately be a fun car in the winter, but honestly, I'd rather have a couple year old 2.5RS cause it doesn't look butt ugly. LOL. I'd rather have an aging RWD Thunderbird, or Mustang than an aging FWD/AWD import. Those things are a real pain to crank wrenches on,

04-23-2002, 01:21 AM	#29
Bad89stang Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Ft. Worth, TX Posts: 456	Those WRX's can flat turn... I went to an autocross event that was held in a parking lot awhile back. There were a few WRX's out there right from the dealer to show off what they could do. They were in the top five for lap times! These cars went around the tight turns with the trailing wheel 4-5" in the air! Tire squeel was non-existant and when the car when down the straight... All that I could hear was BOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTT. Bad *** car. Too small for me though. I'll stick with the stang. Thank you drive through. __________________ You're gonna need your seatbelt

04-23-2002, 04:22 AM	#30
polara7777 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Columbus, MS Posts: 324	Just for everyones info Ford owns/ owns stock in the following companies: Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Mazda, Land Rover, Volvo, Jaguar, and Aston Martin. GM cars and trucks are sold under the following brands: Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac, GMC, Saturn, Geo, Hummer, Saab, Opel, Vauxhall and Holden. DaimlerChrysler: Chrysler, Dodge, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Setra, Frieghtliner, Sterling, Western Star Trucks, Jeep, Smart, and Maybach. All common, mass produced, sold in the US automakers also have factories in the US. The only one I can think of off the top of my head that does not is Kia. So given the above info, what really is an import or domestic now a days??? I enjoy driving muscle imports just as much as I do muscle domestics for different reasons. If I want to go screaming down a twisty back road, give me a quick, agile sport compact. If I want to go fast in a straight line give me a domestic muscle car. (Of course if I want to go flying down a twisty, curvey road I'd want to be on a bike anyway ) I'm not saying that there are no domestic twisty curvey type cars but most of them are out of financial reach of most young adults. Everyone has their prefrences. I personally despise GM but I won't hold it against any GM owners. They make some damn nice rides I just would never own one. Same with Honda. I'm not trying to make anyone mad but this is how I look at it. There is not a defined import/domestic line anymore. Most use each others parts and are sold beside each other. Have a good one and enjoy driving! No matter what it is. (Except maybe a Yugo, not much enjoyment there. Whoever heard of a hi-po Yugo??) __________________ -Ian Christopher -84 VW Vanagon (Stock so far but it barks 3rd ) -67 Dodge Polara (383 punched 30, Heavy head work, Mopar Performance single plane intake, Holley 750, electric fuel pump, Holley regulator, .484 duration cam, FRIED bottom end!) DOH!!! Fried the #1 rod bearing. Stroker kit coming! -01 Kawasaki Ninja 250 (Clear lenses, shaved fender, rear signals in the rear housing, baffles removed, Deals Gap dragon on the tail.)

04-23-2002, 09:53 AM	#31
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Making car choices Unit: Car and Driver reported a 14.1 quarter-mile et on the Subaru WRX in October, 2001. 0-60 time was a righteous 5.4 seconds. Front-wheel-drive vehicles are difficult to work on, granted. I hate 'em. Putting an alternator belt on my wife's Mazda 2.0 took over an hour! Parts can be expensive, too. A new muffler/tailpipe for that Mazda costs over $200. By comparison, a single muffler for my 5.0 costs about $50. On the other hand, the car (bought new for $19,000. in 1995) has been a model of efficiency and reliability. 125,000 miles and aside from the usual brakes, exhaust, tire, belts and battery replacement, I've only had to replace a starter, the Mass Air Sensor unit - and little else. Starts and runs flawlessly, gets great gas mileage and passes emissions easily. A great utilitarian machine, which is what I - and most people - expect when they buy these vehicles. 'Looks' are secondary - and totally subjective, as we all know. My Mustang (also bought new, in 1990) has, like most, been a five-star winner for reliability after 116,000 miles. Aside from normal lifespans of various parts (exhaust, brakes, clutch etc) requiring replacement I've had to replace almost nothing due to parts failure. The car is a joy to own in every respect, which is why I hang on to it after 12 years. I know the new Mustangs are vastly improved in most areas but the one I have is so good to me I simply cannot justify parting with it. I maintain that the Japanese cars are of excellent quality but so are some American cars and everyone can find both a horror story and a success story on reliability in both camps. I simply choose the car that fits my needs. I wouldn't buy a WRX because it's not the type of car I want, despite it's performance. Like you, I prefer the Mustang in every respect for a performance car. On the other hand, when I buy a car for my wife, I need a different type of vehicle and if a Subaru happened to fill the needs we have, I would buy it. I don't care where it's manufactured. I'll probably buy another (Ford-owned) Mazda, due to our good experience with the '95 626, but if an american-made vehicle came along that fit our needs and price range, I would consider it. No bias there, just practical use of our hard-earned car budget for what we need and what's the best buy, which is what I advised in my original post on this topic.

04-23-2002, 11:23 AM	#32
ultraflo NX dealer-man Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Peoria, Illinois Posts: 977	You guys disappoint me!! I will refrain from writing a book to explain myself as I believe it would be unnecessary and pointless. (too late) I am very well aware of the issues that have been discussed concerning our global economy and other relevant points made. Thank you! Continue doing what you guys do best... whatever that may be. Have a nice day and happy motoring! __________________ RLS Racing! 93 LX 9.20 @ 147mph 03 Mach 1 12.39 @ 116mph Last edited by ultraflo; 04-24-2002 at 12:48 AM..

04-24-2002, 12:47 AM	#34
ultraflo NX dealer-man Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Peoria, Illinois Posts: 977	The Buick 3.8 is an outstanding motor Chevrolet's Vortec motors are powerful and efficient And of course, the 5.0L is my personal favorite... Why Ford decided on the modular V8 is beyond my comprehension... remember my saying that I am a complete idiot? I apologize that I am unable to make a convincing argument, or one that you are unable to relate to or understand for that matter. I am simply stating my opinion... Sometimes (most of the time actually) people get upset when I voice my opinion on various issues. Apparently I was able to get your attention (which elicited an emotional response, hence your reply to my post) or you would not have given me the time to respond to my "rant" I am not "mad" at you Mr 5.0, I respect your opinion actually; though, I must say that I disagree with the current scenario in the automobile industry as a result of a global economy (where large companies/corporations move over-seas because of cheap labor and less taxation). Obviously this scenario relates to other industries as well (duh). ...and I am starting to write the book I claimed that would be pointless and unnecessary! (oops!) Forgive me if you will... Wishful thinking on my part... "buying American" that is... That's all, nothing more! "you can wish in one hand, and poop in the other... and see which one fills up first" ya dig? On with your verbal abuse... I guess you won't be slinking away from this one, will you BTW, I'm not that much of a Yankee, more of a redneck hill-billy. Yippe-ki-yi-yah mo foker! (joking) You guys do remember WW2 happening? Getting bombed by Japanese, and several years later everyone's buying their product, even large corporations, irony... That is what disappoints me! That is my rant. Yak at you guys later! And sorry for writing a damn book! Y'all just misunderstood me... __________________ RLS Racing! 93 LX 9.20 @ 147mph 03 Mach 1 12.39 @ 116mph

04-24-2002, 09:05 AM	#37
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Xenophobia Originally posted by ultraflo remember my saying that I am a complete idiot? You're forcing us to remember. I apologize that I am unable to make a convincing argument, or one that you are unable to relate to or understand for that matter. Apology accepted. No problem. I am simply stating my opinion... Sometimes (most of the time actually) people get upset when I voice my opinion on various issues. Ever consider that it may because it's based on false assumptions and mostly wrong? Apparently I was able to get your attention (which elicited an emotional response, hence your reply to my post) or you would not have given me the time to respond to my "rant" I hate to let misguided comments and opinions go unanswered. Emotion was not a factor in my replies, facts were. I am not "mad" at you Mr 5.0, I respect your opinion... Never claimed you were mad about anything and thanks for the compliment. I must say that I disagree with the current scenario in the automobile industry as a result of a global economy... (where large companies/corporations move over-seas because of cheap labor and less taxation). Obviously this scenario relates to other industries as well (duh). The bulk of the profits come back to America and the companies still pay taxes on them. UAW jobs are lost but with automation, not as many as you would think. Cars are not made by hand anymore. ...and I am starting to write the book I claimed that would be pointless and unnecessary! (oops!) Forgive me if you will... Yes you are and yes, I will. Wishful thinking on my part... "buying American" that is...That's all, nothing more! Fine. "you can wish in one hand, and poop in the other... and see which one fills up first" ya dig? I think I saw that 'saying' in a fortune cookie I had last week. On with your verbal abuse... I guess you won't be slinking away from this one, will you That's uncalled for. Disagreement and presenting a logical argument is not 'verbal abuse' my friend. I did not engage in name-calling much less character attacks, I simply offered reasons why I thought you were wrong in your assumptions and conclusions. If you wish to debate, you'll need a thicker skin. As for 'slinking away'; when I'm mistaken in my facts, I admit it and take responsibity for it, with some grace and humor, hopefully. I don't abandon a discussion just because someone else disagrees although I won't tolerate name-calling and hysteria pretending it's logic. BTW, I'm not that much of a Yankee, more of a redneck hill-billy. Yippe-ki-yi-yah mo foker! (joking) O.K. You guys do remember WW2 happening? Getting bombed by Japanese, and several years later everyone's buying their product, even large corporations, irony... That is what disappoints me! That is my rant. If that's your 'rant', it's absurd and really just xenophobia masquarading as patriotism. World War II ended 57 years ago. America was bombed once, we bombed Japan almost into oblivion, which was necessary to defeat a very determined people who had chosen to become our enemy and attack us. That's war. We defeated Japan, the Emperor renounced his 'divinity', the Allies wrote a new constitution for Japan (no military, free elections) and we've been at peace ever since. A testament to the intelligence of both sides, in my opinion. To drag up a six-decade-old long since settled war as a rationale for boycotting Japanese products is, well, just illogical. If you're really serious about that mindset, you had better get rid of your TV, computer, CD player, Nike's and a ton of other stuff that is 'Made in Japan'. Sorry, I cannot accept 'World War II', which we won, as a reason to 'buy American' beyond all reason. using that reasoning, we shouldn't trade with England, either. Remember the Revolutionary War? Your argument would also have to include Germany and all those BMW's and Mercedes and lesser cars we buy from them. Italy is also on the Axis list. There go a lot more products, including Ferrarri's, I guess. Where does it end and what is the point? None that makes much sense. Once a war is won things change as the 'enemy' government that caused the war is always gone; killed in battle, suicide (Hitler) or hung for war crimes (most of the German High Command). We move on from there. You should try it. 'Buying Chinese' is a better example of trading with the enemy and I do have reservations about that - but in a global economy it's very difficult to avoid not buying foreign-made goods - of any type. This is a fact of life. We like those cheap jeans and other products made overseas so they sell, by the millions. The Japanese cars are simply good value, nothing more - or less. Y'all just misunderstood me... I think not - but thanks for your contributions. We don't have to agree on everything to be friends and part of the Mustang 'fraternity'.

04-24-2002, 09:20 AM	#38
Crazy Horse GT Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sale Creek, TN. C. S. A. Posts: 4,652	i guess since i'm from the south i can't buy anything made in the north now,because of the civil war? i cant root for the red wing's, or ny yankee's? oh no my mustang was made in michigan, guess i have to buy a saturn, or a nissan -made in tn, hahaha __________________ 95 gt vert, lot's of stuff, it aint slow. 04 sonic blue v - six my beater 89 rs camaro iroc turbo hood, other stuff, my wifes ride 84 lx stang cammed up 289 hi po, etc 65 falcon, maybe by the year 2020. black 00gt, gone but never forgotten. R H C- member # 1 o.b.c. da prez- member # 1 if your under 40 dont ask. goodbye for now odie,r.i.p. 11-27-03

04-24-2002, 02:45 PM	#40
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Made in China Whats goin on here? Does China have the market on manufacturing for just about every product sold in the USA these days? It does seem that way and it's a fact that American manufacturing, in general, has largely moved to foreign countries, especially China. The biggest cost of manufacturing is usually the labor - people. China offers hard-working people who work more than eight hours a day, don't get minimum wage, three weeks vacation a year, or holidays off, much less any medical benefits (it's a socialist state). No Social Security or Unemployment taxes to pay, either. A businessman's dream, which is why they go to China for cheap labor. Even with import taxes and the U.S. taxes the American companies pay, it's still a bargain for the employeer and the China economy benefits greatly. On the other side of that coin, manufacturers can offer Americans' goods that are a whole lot cheaper than before, as the labor savings are partially passed down to the consumer. You can buy a 13" TV for next to nothing, today. Made in China. Lots of the sneakers and hip clothes we buy are 'Made in China', keeping the price reasonable if it doesn't have a fancy-name label. It's a win-win, to a point, but China is a rabidly communist country with an aging, dictatorial , unelected 'leadership' that both fears and distrusts the United States. Chinese are pretty much slaves in their own country, despite the happy face the government attempts to put on it's oppression. Try saying a bad word against the government in China and you'll 'disappear'. China's leaders have territorial designs, too. Worst of all, the Chinese have nukes. They are not to be trusted, in my opinion, and all this feverish 'trading' we do with them makes me a bit nervous, as we may be financing them for a war some black day in the future. Hopefully not. Mexico is still a popular cheap-labor source but I've heard that the lack of a cultural work ethic made operating a factory on schedule a problem when dealing with folks who tended to wander in and out and come to work when they felt like it, if at all. Hence, China looked pretty good with obedient workers that didn't dare question anything asked of them and were grateful for the opportunity to make some money as there was no drug money to be had, as in Mexico, at least not by the average Chinese peasant. So, next time we buy that 'cheap' item that says 'Made in China', think about some poor Chinese peasant slaving away for pennies to make it, then, be glad you're not them - and enjoy it.