Need help, 69 wont start

[Childs]

Info: 69 FB 302 2bbl Holley 4412 carb dual point dist

I working on my uncle's 69 fastback and its a mess. Nothing on it is stock, so the repair manuals are of little use. I got it running for a bit, then another uncle wanted to check the timing and he fooled with the distributer position and it would not start again. He then pulled out the distributer and supposedly realigned it, and now I'm thinking we're screwed. I turned the crank manually, and aligned up TDC with piston 1, and made sure each revolution (according to the rotor) matched up with TDC, but it still won't fire. I'm getting spark, but its only once in awhile when the spark tester is hooked up to piston 1. Its a dual point distributor, so I don't know if this is the correct behavior or not. It has a Holley 4412 2bbl carb, and there is fuel in the bowl so I'm thinking fuel wise its fine. Replaced the points and condenser, distributer wire, cap, rotor, ignition coil, and even the starter solenoid and voltage regulator.

Now, I'm thinking its just so out of whack timing wise that its not going to fire reliably. Is there anything I can do to make sure the timing is correct when the car won't start? I have the Haynes, Chilton, and Factory manual, and they only deal with timing when the car runs.

Also, the ignition coil measures about 5.6V when "-" is grounded and "+" is going straight to the battery. I've read that it should be 7-11v. The original coil, replaced coil, and brand new coil all read about 5.6v, so I'm wondering since the distributer isn't stock I need a special coil or something? When its normally hooked up, I have ignition running to "+", distributer wire and tach wire running to "-", and I noticed something with the test light. Test light lights up bright without distributer wire and tach connected to "-", but when they are its noticeably dimmer. Could this be an issue too?

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Childs

Info: 69 FB 302 2bbl Holley 4412 carb dual point dist

I working on my uncle's 69 fastback and its a mess. Nothing on it is stock, so the repair manuals are of little use. I got it running for a bit, then another uncle wanted to check the timing and he fooled with the distributer position and it would not start again. He then pulled out the distributer and supposedly realigned it, and now I'm thinking we're screwed. I turned the crank manually, and aligned up TDC with piston 1, and made sure each revolution (according to the rotor) matched up with TDC, but it still won't fire. I'm getting spark, but its only once in awhile when the spark tester is hooked up to piston 1. Its a dual point distributor, so I don't know if this is the correct behavior or not. It has a Holley 4412 2bbl carb, and there is fuel in the bowl so I'm thinking fuel wise its fine. Replaced the points and condenser, distributer wire, cap, rotor, ignition coil, and even the starter solenoid and voltage regulator.

Now, I'm thinking its just so out of whack timing wise that its not going to fire reliably. Is there anything I can do to make sure the timing is correct when the car won't start? I have the Haynes, Chilton, and Factory manual, and they only deal with timing when the car runs.

Also, the ignition coil measures about 5.6V when "-" is grounded and "+" is going straight to the battery. I've read that it should be 7-11v. The original coil, replaced coil, and brand new coil all read about 5.6v, so I'm wondering since the distributer isn't stock I need a special coil or something? When its normally hooked up, I have ignition running to "+", distributer wire and tach wire running to "-", and I noticed something with the test light. Test light lights up bright without distributer wire and tach connected to "-", but when they are its noticeably dimmer. Could this be an issue too?

There's a short somewhere. You should have at least 8-9 volts to the coil even when the resistence wire is functioning . When cold, you should get the full 12V to the coil during start up. be sure you have the polarity right to the coil.

Check to make sure you have the tdc center mark on the balancer near the pointer when you get the compression pop at the #1 spark plug hole. The rotor in the distributor shoud be pointing at the #1 terminal on the cap.

Pump the gas a few times to see gas sqirting into the carb from the accelerator punp. If all that is correct, it should at least fire. Don't pump too much gas into the carb. You don't want an intake backfire and a resulting engine fire.

Rev

[Childs]

Thanks Rev. I thought it might be a short last weekend, so I hooked up just the jumper wire running from the battery to + on the coil and the distributor wire running to - on the coil, and I got the same reading on the multimeter. I just wasn't sure if that reading was normal.

The timing may be off by one position as well, as that uncle told me the rotor should be pointing to just before piston 1.

I do get gas in the carb when I pump the gas or manually do it at the carb, so at least thats good!

[Phillyfanfrombirth]

Even if you are off a tooth, you should be able to compensate by moving the distributor to at least get it started...

How about the condition of the condensor and points?... I've seen points that had the part that rubs the cam wear down to the point that they won't open anymore... be sure that you are getting the right gap. (it wouldn't hurt to double check the gaps in the spark plugs while you are at it...)

And... I hate to ask this, but having done it myself (laugh here...), double check to make sure that the rotor is in place.

One other note... if it won't start with a shot of starter fluid, there is definetly a problem.

[Childs]

New condenser and points, gapped to .017. I didn't gap the plugs, as supposedly they were already gapped. The car started prior to fooling around with the timing, so I assumed the plugs were fine. It also won't start with starter fluid. heh, I've actually seen it get spit out of the carb! But I used to be able to start it with starting fluid, and nothing has been touched on the carb.

[Phillyfanfrombirth]

Double check the firing order... and, again, confirm that the #1 piston (front passenger side), pushes air out of the spark plug hole as you crank it manually and approach TDC... and again, make sure rotor is pointing in the direction of the #1 at the same time...

Sorry that this sounds redundant...

[1965GTO]

Changed everthing else might as well change the spark plugs too. I have seen perfect looking spark plugs that wouldn't do crap.

[PKRWUD]

I agree that it really sounds like the distributor is 180 off. Just for sh1ts and giggles, take the #1 plug out, and stuff a wadded up paper napkin into the spark plug hole. Bump the starter until the napkin pops out, and then check the marks. The balancer and the pointer will be very close. Manually rotate the crank a few degrees either way in order to line up the marks at 10 degrees advanced, and check the rotor. It should be pointing at the #1 terminal on the cap. If nothing else, just confirm for us that you've done this so we can rule it out. Also, forget the fuel system, that isn't your problem.