3.55's or 4.10's?

93GTDIN · 02-21-2001, 05:43 PM

speaking in terms of accelleration vs. top speed, keeping in consideration also gas mileage, which is best on a 1993 GT? (4.10's or 3.55's)

Stang_Crazy · 02-21-2001, 05:48 PM

Is the car an auto or t-5?? If it is an auto, I'd say the 4.10's would be better.

------------------
91 GT AOD: 3.73's, Pulleys,PI Converter, 14.71@91.78mph
2.11 60'(before pulleys)

Smokedawg · 02-21-2001, 05:58 PM

Well it depends which one you want, acceleration you would want 4:10's. Top speed and better gas mileage you would want 3:55's. But if you want lower ET's in 1/4 I would go with the 4:10's.

------------------
347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Cobra Computer, Cobra Transmission, GT40 Ported and Polished Upper and Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, March Underdrive Pulleys, Electric Fan, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, NGK Plugs, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 77mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, High Tolerant Painted Calipers and Drums.

rtz · 02-21-2001, 07:03 PM

When running street tires, isn't it possible to get better 1/4 mile times using 3.27's instead of 4.10's due to traction?

Or do the 4.10's make up for the lost time due to wheel spin on down the track?

Picture this:

Light turns green and the person next to me is spinning their tires with 3.55's/3.73's/4.10's and I've already left the line using 3.27's.

Who's going to win that race?

Will someone who has lower gears then me be able to catch up too me and then pass me later on down the track?

Phantom5oh · 02-21-2001, 08:32 PM

93GTDIN, first off is your car stock? I'll assume manual, for the sake of argument. If it's stock and manual then get the 3:55's. Reason being is that with 4:10's you'll run out of gear almost instantly, and your car wont have the torque to support them. The engine needs something to push against. Think of riding a 10 speed bike, if you put it in 1st gear and pedal as hard as you can you will notice after a few revolutions you wont be able to go any faster and you'll feel like your not pushing against anything. If you do the same thing in 3rd gear you'll notice that you can take off almost as fast but not quite. You'll also feel like your pushing alot harder, but going alot fatser befor the gear runs out. So if you have the stock motor you don't have the torque to utilize 4:10's and you'll be shifting more often than you need too, lossing you a lot of time and speed.

rtz, the person who sits at the light spinning will not be able to catch you unless you screw up down track. Gears don't give you that much of an advantage that you'll be able to catch someone who is 2-3 car lengths ahead and still accelerating. Thats a lot of ground to make up considering they have the same power you do. Hope this helps more than it confuses people.

Phantom

------------------
1983 GLX Convertible 5 Speed, bored 30 over, Shaved knife edged crank, Internally balanced, TRW Flat Top Pistons, 11:1 Compression, Custom ground cam, Ported Windsor Jr. Heads, Manley Valves, Comp Cams Roller Lifters w/ Dual Springs, Fel-Pro Gaskets, ARP Stud kit, 600 CFM Edelbrock Performer Carb, Edelbrock Torker 2 Intake, Mallory Ignition, Canton 7qt Oil Pan w/ trap doors windage tray and baffles, Hooker Super Comp Headers 1 5/8" primaries & 3" collectors, Flowmaster American Thunders, K&N, M

NOS_Notch · 02-21-2001, 09:05 PM

Anyone saying 4.10's don't work on stock cars(for whatever, misguided reason it may be)
First off...have never had 4.10's.
2nd....don't race much or they would have changed to 3.73 or better.
My car has a bone stock motor...w/ 4.10's it will 13.20's
12.50's on nitrous.
all of you people who say no on the 4.10's for max performance need to look at your r's going through the traps.
But if you want to save $5 a month in gas then get wimpy gears.

------------------
4.10's,long tubes & 75 shot...Goes 12.50's
Check it out at http://www.burnouts.webprovider.com

93GTDIN · 02-21-2001, 09:32 PM

NOS_NOTCH what about traction? What kind of tires are you running?

cleanLX · 02-21-2001, 11:06 PM

why are you not considering 3.73's? They are the perfect all round gear.
Launching a car with a lower (higher numerically) set of gears is easier than launching a car with a higher (lower numerically) set of gears. with the 3.08's it was quite a dance to get the car to launch perfect. with the 3.08's, give it some revs, slip the clucth dump it boooggg, try again, give it some rev's slip the clutch wheel spin, opps, too quick. It's spin or bog. With the 3.73's, the rear end spins with the motor, and and not against it, you are not gonna break loose as easily because the gears want to spin with the motor, not against it.
Okay lets do this, find a loose gravel road and try to launch your car hard while in third gear. Spin or bog eh? no in between, kind of sucks don't it? Now put it in first gear and try to launch hard, oh, now you can modulate the throttle and the gears spin with the motor, and you can launch, nice... Anyone wants to play race to the other side of the intersection with stock gears against me, I'm game, I'll whoop ya all day while you play with a bog/spin cluctch/gas dance.
Now, not enough torque to support a steep gear? uhmm, no. You go deep into the gears to compensate for low torque. If I had massive amounts of torque i certanly would not want a gear set that would cause me to spin freely past the torque band, I would want a higher set of gears (lower numerically) to keep me in the torque band longer, utilizing the torque.
My lx is bone stock motor, cat back, headers and suspension, full weight, and 13.2x's on radials.
Hope this has not confused!

------------------
'92 emerald coupe, no air silencer, bored stock MAF to 60mm, sub-frames welded, strut tower brace, 180 thermo, 16 deg's, K'n'N panel, bosh platniums, u.d. pullies, off road h-pipe, hurst "stir stick", fms 3.73's. otherwise, factory original.
best 1/4 = 13.264@ 100.89mph with a 1.824 60 ft. on turbines with 235/60-R15 BFG DR's

IMPULSERACING · 02-22-2001, 01:54 AM

Manual go with 3:73, Auto go with 4:10's

As long as you have good tires, are a good driver, and have a little suspension then you don't have to worry about geting out of the hole. The main thing about having a gear is that when you shift it puts you right back in your power band instead of under it like stock gears.
A 3:73 gear was the first thing on my car when it was stock and the difference was incredible. It should always be one of your first mods. Hope this helps.

------------------
92' LX Hatch 5 spd Edelbrock Performer Intake, pro-m 75mm MAF, 70mm T.B., 24lb injectors, 190lph, Mac fenderwall cold air induction, mallary ignition and coil, Cobra 1.7 rockers, 373:1 gear, upper and lower control arms, supersubs, 50/50's, front drag springs, no sway bar, battery in hatch, compucar N20 kit

shovelnose · 02-22-2001, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phantom5oh:
So if you have the stock motor you don't have the torque to utilize 4:10's and you'll be shifting more often than you need too, lossing you a lot of time and speed.

Phantom

I thought gears multiplied torque.

If you have 250 ft/lbs of torque from your motor(Not counting drivetrain losses)

3.08*250=770 ft/lbs of torque(In 4th)

4.10*250=1025 ft/lbs of torque(In 4th)

That being said I also gained 7/10's switching from 4sp od to 5sp(Having to shift an extra gear).

That said:
5 spd. 3.55's(Fuel economy/performance)
3.73's(Best all around)
4:10's(Performance/Fuel economy)

AOD 3.55's(Fuel economy/Poorer perf.)
3.73's(Fuel economy/Fair perf.)
4:10's(Best perf/Poorer fuel)

I had 4:10 AOD(loved it). Now have 3.73 tremec and am putting in 4:10. We'll see how it goes.

------------------
82 Mercury Capri 302.
Comp. Cams
Tremec 3550
3.73's
12.8@106 N/AKevin's Capri

[This message has been edited by shovelnose (edited 02-22-2001).]

93GTDIN · 02-22-2001, 05:23 PM

I have an AOD, so it looks like 4.10's... will my performance be comparable to a 3.55 5-spd? how bad is the gas mileage exactly, and since i'm not mechanically inclined, nor do I have the facilities, how much would total installation be (including the merchandise)?

02-22-2001, 06:59 PM

T5 go with the 4.10's
AOD go with the 4.30's

First gear is short with the 4.10's, but its still plenty useful and the torque multiplication is awesome. If you've got some drag radials, folks will be lookin' at your tail lights. I wasted my time going to 3.55's before the 4.10's and it was exactly that...wasted time and money.

With the AOD, first gear is only 2.40 so I wouldn't (and haven't) go with anything less than 4.30's. I may even find myself going with some 4.56's when its all said and done.

Been there, done that, learned my lesson.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
T/S #3
11.97 Seconds/114.5 MPH
Chambers Racing Team

dinomite · 02-22-2001, 07:52 PM

Can you even get up to a reasonable speed in the QM with 4.56s?

Jeff Chambers · 02-23-2001, 07:19 AM

Sure. As long as I can spin the motor high enough, the 4.56's may be the ticket. I've got some learning to do with the AOD, but since its a lock-up unit, there's no slip driving it out the back door. Last year with the 4.30's and the T5 I was spinning about 6200-6300 out the back door at 113-114MPH. It all depends on where you're making your HP and TQ with the motor. Proper gear selection is much an art as it is a science

------------------
Jeff Chambers
Trophy Stock #3
11.97 Seconds / 114.5 MPH
Chambers Racing Team

NOS_Notch · 02-23-2001, 06:29 PM

i only use good DOT tires...ET Streets, M&H racemaster, Sportsman pro....
An AOD needs a 4.56 gear to equal 1st gear takeoff power of a 5-speed w/ 3.08's.

AOD=1st=2.40
T5=1st=3.35
Multiply by ring and pinion to get total gear.
Installation is about $200 and the gear is about $175
You can get a used gear for $75-100 if you wanted to save a few bucks but there is some risk.

------------------
4.10's,long tubes & 75 shot...Goes 12.50's
Check it out at http://www.burnouts.webprovider.com

NOS_Notch · 02-23-2001, 06:36 PM

And i would guess that on the e-way i get about 17 mpg.
Not too great, but my old aod car w/ 3.27's only got about 21

fastang · 02-23-2001, 07:28 PM

I like 355's with my Tremec. I dont know the exact differences in gears between the T5 and the Tremec but I believe that the tremec is a LITTLE steeper. If I had an auto I would definitely go with at least a 373.

------------------
95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

02-23-2001, 09:08 PM

NOS, you're forgetting about the torque multiplication provided by the torque converter though. A good, high stall converter will give you a factor of two to three on torque which evens the score. I guarantee that the AOD leaving off a 4500 stall & transbrake will leave EVERY bit as hard as the stick car. As a matter of fact, it may leave even better since the shock to the tires isn't quite as much as the converter begins to transfer the power. I don't expect to loose anything in terms of 60' times going from the T5 to the AOD.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
T/S #3
11.97 Seconds/114.5 MPH
Chambers Racing Team

02-21-2001, 05:43 PM	#1
93GTDIN Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Live music capital of the world, TX Posts: 324	3.55's or 4.10's? speaking in terms of accelleration vs. top speed, keeping in consideration also gas mileage, which is best on a 1993 GT? (4.10's or 3.55's)

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02-21-2001, 05:48 PM	#2
Stang_Crazy It's never clean enough! Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Shaler, PA Posts: 1,542	Is the car an auto or t-5?? If it is an auto, I'd say the 4.10's would be better. ------------------ 91 GT AOD: 3.73's, Pulleys,PI Converter, 14.71@91.78mph 2.11 60'(before pulleys)

02-21-2001, 05:58 PM	#3
Smokedawg Tires Fear Me... Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 867	Well it depends which one you want, acceleration you would want 4:10's. Top speed and better gas mileage you would want 3:55's. But if you want lower ET's in 1/4 I would go with the 4:10's. ------------------ 347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Cobra Computer, Cobra Transmission, GT40 Ported and Polished Upper and Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, March Underdrive Pulleys, Electric Fan, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, NGK Plugs, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 77mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, High Tolerant Painted Calipers and Drums.

02-21-2001, 07:03 PM	#4
rtz Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 180	When running street tires, isn't it possible to get better 1/4 mile times using 3.27's instead of 4.10's due to traction? Or do the 4.10's make up for the lost time due to wheel spin on down the track? Picture this: Light turns green and the person next to me is spinning their tires with 3.55's/3.73's/4.10's and I've already left the line using 3.27's. Who's going to win that race? Will someone who has lower gears then me be able to catch up too me and then pass me later on down the track?

02-21-2001, 08:32 PM	#5
Phantom5oh Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 334	93GTDIN, first off is your car stock? I'll assume manual, for the sake of argument. If it's stock and manual then get the 3:55's. Reason being is that with 4:10's you'll run out of gear almost instantly, and your car wont have the torque to support them. The engine needs something to push against. Think of riding a 10 speed bike, if you put it in 1st gear and pedal as hard as you can you will notice after a few revolutions you wont be able to go any faster and you'll feel like your not pushing against anything. If you do the same thing in 3rd gear you'll notice that you can take off almost as fast but not quite. You'll also feel like your pushing alot harder, but going alot fatser befor the gear runs out. So if you have the stock motor you don't have the torque to utilize 4:10's and you'll be shifting more often than you need too, lossing you a lot of time and speed. rtz, the person who sits at the light spinning will not be able to catch you unless you screw up down track. Gears don't give you that much of an advantage that you'll be able to catch someone who is 2-3 car lengths ahead and still accelerating. Thats a lot of ground to make up considering they have the same power you do. Hope this helps more than it confuses people. Phantom ------------------ 1983 GLX Convertible 5 Speed, bored 30 over, Shaved knife edged crank, Internally balanced, TRW Flat Top Pistons, 11:1 Compression, Custom ground cam, Ported Windsor Jr. Heads, Manley Valves, Comp Cams Roller Lifters w/ Dual Springs, Fel-Pro Gaskets, ARP Stud kit, 600 CFM Edelbrock Performer Carb, Edelbrock Torker 2 Intake, Mallory Ignition, Canton 7qt Oil Pan w/ trap doors windage tray and baffles, Hooker Super Comp Headers 1 5/8" primaries & 3" collectors, Flowmaster American Thunders, K&N, M

02-21-2001, 09:05 PM	#6
NOS_Notch Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Fresno,CA. USA Posts: 384	Anyone saying 4.10's don't work on stock cars(for whatever, misguided reason it may be) First off...have never had 4.10's. 2nd....don't race much or they would have changed to 3.73 or better. My car has a bone stock motor...w/ 4.10's it will 13.20's 12.50's on nitrous. all of you people who say no on the 4.10's for max performance need to look at your r's going through the traps. But if you want to save $5 a month in gas then get wimpy gears. ------------------ 4.10's,long tubes & 75 shot...Goes 12.50's Check it out at http://www.burnouts.webprovider.com

02-21-2001, 09:32 PM	#7
93GTDIN Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Live music capital of the world, TX Posts: 324	NOS_NOTCH what about traction? What kind of tires are you running?

02-21-2001, 11:06 PM	#8
cleanLX Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Phoenix Az. by way of fredericton, NB Canada Posts: 73	why are you not considering 3.73's? They are the perfect all round gear. Launching a car with a lower (higher numerically) set of gears is easier than launching a car with a higher (lower numerically) set of gears. with the 3.08's it was quite a dance to get the car to launch perfect. with the 3.08's, give it some revs, slip the clucth dump it boooggg, try again, give it some rev's slip the clutch wheel spin, opps, too quick. It's spin or bog. With the 3.73's, the rear end spins with the motor, and and not against it, you are not gonna break loose as easily because the gears want to spin with the motor, not against it. Okay lets do this, find a loose gravel road and try to launch your car hard while in third gear. Spin or bog eh? no in between, kind of sucks don't it? Now put it in first gear and try to launch hard, oh, now you can modulate the throttle and the gears spin with the motor, and you can launch, nice... Anyone wants to play race to the other side of the intersection with stock gears against me, I'm game, I'll whoop ya all day while you play with a bog/spin cluctch/gas dance. Now, not enough torque to support a steep gear? uhmm, no. You go deep into the gears to compensate for low torque. If I had massive amounts of torque i certanly would not want a gear set that would cause me to spin freely past the torque band, I would want a higher set of gears (lower numerically) to keep me in the torque band longer, utilizing the torque. My lx is bone stock motor, cat back, headers and suspension, full weight, and 13.2x's on radials. Hope this has not confused! ------------------ '92 emerald coupe, no air silencer, bored stock MAF to 60mm, sub-frames welded, strut tower brace, 180 thermo, 16 deg's, K'n'N panel, bosh platniums, u.d. pullies, off road h-pipe, hurst "stir stick", fms 3.73's. otherwise, factory original. best 1/4 = 13.264@ 100.89mph with a 1.824 60 ft. on turbines with 235/60-R15 BFG DR's

02-22-2001, 01:54 AM	#9
IMPULSERACING Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: chicago,IL,USA Posts: 158	Manual go with 3:73, Auto go with 4:10's As long as you have good tires, are a good driver, and have a little suspension then you don't have to worry about geting out of the hole. The main thing about having a gear is that when you shift it puts you right back in your power band instead of under it like stock gears. A 3:73 gear was the first thing on my car when it was stock and the difference was incredible. It should always be one of your first mods. Hope this helps. ------------------ 92' LX Hatch 5 spd Edelbrock Performer Intake, pro-m 75mm MAF, 70mm T.B., 24lb injectors, 190lph, Mac fenderwall cold air induction, mallary ignition and coil, Cobra 1.7 rockers, 373:1 gear, upper and lower control arms, supersubs, 50/50's, front drag springs, no sway bar, battery in hatch, compucar N20 kit

02-22-2001, 05:23 PM	#11
93GTDIN Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Live music capital of the world, TX Posts: 324	I have an AOD, so it looks like 4.10's... will my performance be comparable to a 3.55 5-spd? how bad is the gas mileage exactly, and since i'm not mechanically inclined, nor do I have the facilities, how much would total installation be (including the merchandise)?

02-22-2001, 06:59 PM	#12
jchambers Guest Posts: n/a	T5 go with the 4.10's AOD go with the 4.30's First gear is short with the 4.10's, but its still plenty useful and the torque multiplication is awesome. If you've got some drag radials, folks will be lookin' at your tail lights. I wasted my time going to 3.55's before the 4.10's and it was exactly that...wasted time and money. With the AOD, first gear is only 2.40 so I wouldn't (and haven't) go with anything less than 4.30's. I may even find myself going with some 4.56's when its all said and done. Been there, done that, learned my lesson. ------------------ Jeff Chambers T/S #3 11.97 Seconds/114.5 MPH Chambers Racing Team

02-22-2001, 07:52 PM	#13
dinomite The Dude Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1,262	Can you even get up to a reasonable speed in the QM with 4.56s?

02-23-2001, 07:19 AM	#14
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	Sure. As long as I can spin the motor high enough, the 4.56's may be the ticket. I've got some learning to do with the AOD, but since its a lock-up unit, there's no slip driving it out the back door. Last year with the 4.30's and the T5 I was spinning about 6200-6300 out the back door at 113-114MPH. It all depends on where you're making your HP and TQ with the motor. Proper gear selection is much an art as it is a science ------------------ Jeff Chambers Trophy Stock #3 11.97 Seconds / 114.5 MPH Chambers Racing Team

02-23-2001, 06:29 PM	#15
NOS_Notch Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Fresno,CA. USA Posts: 384	i only use good DOT tires...ET Streets, M&H racemaster, Sportsman pro.... An AOD needs a 4.56 gear to equal 1st gear takeoff power of a 5-speed w/ 3.08's. AOD=1st=2.40 T5=1st=3.35 Multiply by ring and pinion to get total gear. Installation is about $200 and the gear is about $175 You can get a used gear for $75-100 if you wanted to save a few bucks but there is some risk. ------------------ 4.10's,long tubes & 75 shot...Goes 12.50's Check it out at http://www.burnouts.webprovider.com

02-23-2001, 06:36 PM	#16
NOS_Notch Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Fresno,CA. USA Posts: 384	And i would guess that on the e-way i get about 17 mpg. Not too great, but my old aod car w/ 3.27's only got about 21

02-23-2001, 07:28 PM	#17
fastang Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: santa ana ca Posts: 1,349	I like 355's with my Tremec. I dont know the exact differences in gears between the T5 and the Tremec but I believe that the tremec is a LITTLE steeper. If I had an auto I would definitely go with at least a 373. ------------------ 95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

02-23-2001, 09:08 PM	#18
jchambers Guest Posts: n/a	NOS, you're forgetting about the torque multiplication provided by the torque converter though. A good, high stall converter will give you a factor of two to three on torque which evens the score. I guarantee that the AOD leaving off a 4500 stall & transbrake will leave EVERY bit as hard as the stick car. As a matter of fact, it may leave even better since the shock to the tires isn't quite as much as the converter begins to transfer the power. I don't expect to loose anything in terms of 60' times going from the T5 to the AOD. ------------------ Jeff Chambers T/S #3 11.97 Seconds/114.5 MPH Chambers Racing Team