302 Incon Twin Turbocharged vs. 351

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 06-09-2001, 01:09 AM

what are your opinions???
i know i could get 355rwhp with the twin turbo on a COMPLETLY STOCK motor.
i just started thinking about building a 351 like JimBergs, but need your opinion
Thanks

------------------
1988 Mustang GT, T-5
3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed Air SilencerMy Stang
My Site (Not Done Yet)

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 06-09-2001, 01:19 AM

7psi on the stock motor is 355rwhp, 9psi is 400rwhp

------------------
1988 Mustang GT, T-5
3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed Air SilencerMy Stang
My Site (Not Done Yet)

Stang Runner · 06-09-2001, 06:50 AM

If you want mass power you could do them both There was a car in 5.0 and it was makeing over a 1000HP, it was some rich kid. It ran in the 9's and it was not a drag car. But man it would cost. I am going to side with the 351 alot cheeper in the long run.

I see you have no No Smog Pump, is that all you need to do (Shorty Belt).

NO SLO PK · 06-09-2001, 03:09 PM

My 2 cents...the answer depends on what you want to do with it. Adding forced induction, especially a turbo, creates a lot of headaches related to tuning and reliability, especially for daily driver use. You guys with forced induction know what I mean.

If you want daily driver reliability, I'd go with the Windsor. You might make less power, but it would be a lot more reliable. Then you can put forced induction on the Windsor, which has stronger internals to begin with.

------------------
Russ L
'91 LX
Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 06-09-2001, 09:43 PM

ok, stangrunner, all i did was bought a shorter belt, but you have to measure how short you want it so it wont be to hard or too lose

i want it to be a daily driver, but i like the turbo thing because you can always up the boost. i also like the 351 thing because of reliability. i could always add a supercharger to the 351, but i dont know how well the twin turbo would fit with a 351.

the incon turbo kit costs 3995 & includes EVERYTHING.

how much power could a 351 block handel in comparison to the 302 block????

------------------
1988 Mustang GT, T-5
3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed Air SilencerMy Stang
My Site (Not Done Yet)

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 06-10-2001, 04:33 PM

no one has anymore thoughts????

84_GT350 · 06-11-2001, 03:57 AM

I'm a big fan of turbos. I'd say with an Incon kit 400 reliable horsepower should be a sinche (sp?). That's my vote. Besides...making big hp with a turbo should be easier and more streetable than tuning a 351.

------------------
1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s

jonnyk · 06-11-2001, 04:55 PM

I vote turbos. You will have awesome driveability with them and they can make massive power. The install is a beotch, but then again so is converting to a 351W, which requires a ton of different parts.

------------------
1991 LX Hatch 5.0L

DirtKing · 06-11-2001, 06:40 PM

tuning a NA setup will always be easier to tune than a comparable blower setup...plus you can change sparkplugs once in a while!

------------------
88LX notch, Speedpro EFI Procharged!

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 06-11-2001, 09:53 PM

well, will the incon twin turbo fit under hood with a 351w?
i can get a 351w shortbloch that will be as strong as an a-4block, so if that will fit, ill build a 351, then put a pair of turbos on it

------------------
1988 Mustang GT, T-5
3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed Air SilencerMy Stang
My Site (Not Done Yet)

jimberg · 06-11-2001, 10:12 PM

Installing a 351 is not a big deal at all, especially if you plan to do it right from the beginning.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

DirtKing · 06-12-2001, 08:14 PM

building a 500hp 351 is pretty easy..and you want to put turbos on it? pretty sick, but I like your thinking!

------------------
88LX notch, Speedpro EFI Procharged!

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 06-13-2001, 12:29 AM

well, if i build a 351, ill use a sportsman shortblock, e/f-303 cam, tfs heads, tfs intake, but then i may add a blower or turbos(if they will fit) to the motor with about 15psi.
i think that would be around 750+motor hp, because on a 302 with 13psi turbo, gt-40heads/intake, stock cam, you can make over 620motor hp.
now i would have to get one he!! of a stick transmissoion, & a set of 33spline axels, but i think that is where i want to end up.

can anyone reccomend a stick tranny that would hold up?????????????

------------------
1988 Mustang GT, T-5
3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed Air SilencerMy Stang
My Site (Not Done Yet)

DirtKing · 06-13-2001, 03:14 PM

I'd go blower before turbos just for the ease... transmissions are gonna be expensive:

viper t56 6spd
richmond 5 or 6spd
g force lethal weapon 4 or 5
jerico 4 or 5

all of these are about 3g or better by the time your finished.

------------------
88LX notch, Speedpro EFI Procharged!

NO SLO PK · 06-13-2001, 03:16 PM

Quote:

...making big hp with a turbo should be easier and more streetable than tuning a 351.

[/B]

No way!

With forced induction, the timing and a/f ratio are much more critical and damaging if you get it wrong. Also critical are the demands on the ignition, fuel system, and head gaskets, cooling system, and ring seals, all of which must be in near-perfect condition for a forced-induction engine to function safely.

Btw, the Windsor short block is notably stronger than a 302 short block. The Windsor has a beefier crank, stronger block, better head bolts (1/2" vs. 7/16"), etc., etc.

------------------
Russ L
'91 LX
Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

jimberg · 06-13-2001, 03:18 PM

You DO NOT want to use an F cam with a 351W. The E cam or whatever TFS recommends will be better.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 06-13-2001, 11:53 PM

i did some thinkin and i really (REALLY) want a Sleeper. so im thinking about keeping the stock hood. id likely get an R-302 block(or A-4), forged internals, TFS Twisted Wedge Heads, TFS R intake, 75mm t-body, 36lb injectors, 80mm maf, incon twin turbo kit (15psi)..........

All i can say about that combo is that its gona be NUTTY

BowTie Eater 5 Liter · 06-14-2001, 12:11 AM

scratch that r302/a4 block, im gona go with a sportsman shortblock & a dss main girdle.

97cobracpe · 06-14-2001, 12:24 PM

Don't go with either. Get a 347e Shortblock from Coast High Performance. They made 450 FlyWheel horsepower with TFS Heads and an Edelbrock Permormer RPM intake. Plus it past emissions in California. This is a very reliable motor.

97cobracpe · 06-14-2001, 12:25 PM

Don't go with either. Get a 347e Shortblock from Coast High Performance. They made 450 FlyWheel horsepower with TFS Heads and an Edelbrock Permormer RPM intake. Plus it past emissions in California. This is a very reliable motor.

06-09-2001, 01:09 AM	#1
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	302 Incon Twin Turbocharged vs. 351 what are your opinions??? i know i could get 355rwhp with the twin turbo on a COMPLETLY STOCK motor. i just started thinking about building a 351 like JimBergs, but need your opinion Thanks ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT, T-5 3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed Air SilencerMy Stang My Site (Not Done Yet)

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06-09-2001, 01:19 AM	#2
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	7psi on the stock motor is 355rwhp, 9psi is 400rwhp ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT, T-5 3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed Air SilencerMy Stang My Site (Not Done Yet)

06-09-2001, 06:50 AM	#3
Stang Runner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Walker, MI, USA Posts: 1,202	If you want mass power you could do them both There was a car in 5.0 and it was makeing over a 1000HP, it was some rich kid. It ran in the 9's and it was not a drag car. But man it would cost. I am going to side with the 351 alot cheeper in the long run. I see you have no No Smog Pump, is that all you need to do (Shorty Belt).

06-09-2001, 03:09 PM	#4
NO SLO PK Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Arcadia, CA, USA Posts: 731	My 2 cents...the answer depends on what you want to do with it. Adding forced induction, especially a turbo, creates a lot of headaches related to tuning and reliability, especially for daily driver use. You guys with forced induction know what I mean. If you want daily driver reliability, I'd go with the Windsor. You might make less power, but it would be a lot more reliable. Then you can put forced induction on the Windsor, which has stronger internals to begin with. ------------------ Russ L '91 LX Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

06-09-2001, 09:43 PM	#5
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	ok, stangrunner, all i did was bought a shorter belt, but you have to measure how short you want it so it wont be to hard or too lose i want it to be a daily driver, but i like the turbo thing because you can always up the boost. i also like the 351 thing because of reliability. i could always add a supercharger to the 351, but i dont know how well the twin turbo would fit with a 351. the incon turbo kit costs 3995 & includes EVERYTHING. how much power could a 351 block handel in comparison to the 302 block???? ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT, T-5 3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed Air SilencerMy Stang My Site (Not Done Yet)

06-10-2001, 04:33 PM	#6
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	no one has anymore thoughts????

06-11-2001, 03:57 AM	#7
84_GT350 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Overland Park, KS, USA Posts: 1,631	I'm a big fan of turbos. I'd say with an Incon kit 400 reliable horsepower should be a sinche (sp?). That's my vote. Besides...making big hp with a turbo should be easier and more streetable than tuning a 351. ------------------ 1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s

06-11-2001, 04:55 PM	#8
jonnyk Being stroked is great Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 772	I vote turbos. You will have awesome driveability with them and they can make massive power. The install is a beotch, but then again so is converting to a 351W, which requires a ton of different parts. ------------------ 1991 LX Hatch 5.0L

06-11-2001, 06:40 PM	#9
DirtKing Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: brooklyn center,mn,USA Posts: 169	tuning a NA setup will always be easier to tune than a comparable blower setup...plus you can change sparkplugs once in a while! ------------------ 88LX notch, Speedpro EFI Procharged!

06-11-2001, 09:53 PM	#10
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	well, will the incon twin turbo fit under hood with a 351w? i can get a 351w shortbloch that will be as strong as an a-4block, so if that will fit, ill build a 351, then put a pair of turbos on it ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT, T-5 3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed Air SilencerMy Stang My Site (Not Done Yet)

06-11-2001, 10:12 PM	#11
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Installing a 351 is not a big deal at all, especially if you plan to do it right from the beginning. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

06-12-2001, 08:14 PM	#12
DirtKing Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: brooklyn center,mn,USA Posts: 169	building a 500hp 351 is pretty easy..and you want to put turbos on it? pretty sick, but I like your thinking! ------------------ 88LX notch, Speedpro EFI Procharged!

06-13-2001, 12:29 AM	#13
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	well, if i build a 351, ill use a sportsman shortblock, e/f-303 cam, tfs heads, tfs intake, but then i may add a blower or turbos(if they will fit) to the motor with about 15psi. i think that would be around 750+motor hp, because on a 302 with 13psi turbo, gt-40heads/intake, stock cam, you can make over 620motor hp. now i would have to get one he!! of a stick transmissoion, & a set of 33spline axels, but i think that is where i want to end up. can anyone reccomend a stick tranny that would hold up????????????? ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT, T-5 3.08's, No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe, K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box), Removed Air SilencerMy Stang My Site (Not Done Yet)

06-13-2001, 03:14 PM	#14
DirtKing Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: brooklyn center,mn,USA Posts: 169	I'd go blower before turbos just for the ease... transmissions are gonna be expensive: viper t56 6spd richmond 5 or 6spd g force lethal weapon 4 or 5 jerico 4 or 5 all of these are about 3g or better by the time your finished. ------------------ 88LX notch, Speedpro EFI Procharged!

06-13-2001, 03:18 PM	#16
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	You DO NOT want to use an F cam with a 351W. The E cam or whatever TFS recommends will be better. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

06-13-2001, 11:53 PM	#17
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	i did some thinkin and i really (REALLY) want a Sleeper. so im thinking about keeping the stock hood. id likely get an R-302 block(or A-4), forged internals, TFS Twisted Wedge Heads, TFS R intake, 75mm t-body, 36lb injectors, 80mm maf, incon twin turbo kit (15psi).......... All i can say about that combo is that its gona be NUTTY

06-14-2001, 12:11 AM	#18
BowTie Eater 5 Liter Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Maple Ridge B.C. Canada, The Best Place In The World Posts: 871	scratch that r302/a4 block, im gona go with a sportsman shortblock & a dss main girdle.

06-14-2001, 12:24 PM	#19
97cobracpe Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester, IL Posts: 37	Don't go with either. Get a 347e Shortblock from Coast High Performance. They made 450 FlyWheel horsepower with TFS Heads and an Edelbrock Permormer RPM intake. Plus it past emissions in California. This is a very reliable motor.

06-14-2001, 12:25 PM	#20
97cobracpe Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester, IL Posts: 37	Don't go with either. Get a 347e Shortblock from Coast High Performance. They made 450 FlyWheel horsepower with TFS Heads and an Edelbrock Permormer RPM intake. Plus it past emissions in California. This is a very reliable motor.