Still not starting

MattwantsSpeed · 07-18-2002, 01:08 PM

Well it's not my fuel pump. I wired it the same as the old one and hooked everything back together, fuel lines and electrical connections. What else could it be? I've changed the fuel pump, fuel pump relay and TFI module. The car has just died on me while driving, 3 times in less than 2 weeks. When I turn on the key, you don't hear the fuel pump come on, that was with the old one and the new one. I don't know what to do anymore!!!! I need the car cuz I'm moving to Florida in a couple weeks and I need it to make it there. There is way too much sh*t going on right now!!!! I need my car!!!

drudis · 07-18-2002, 01:47 PM

Try hotwiring the fuel pump. Get some wire and go right to the battery... At least you know you got fuel then.

It may be the big 40-pin harness. My nephew had this problem. We kep "jiggling" the harnesses, until it made contact and everything worked out.

Hethj7 · 07-18-2002, 07:12 PM

This would be very unlikely, but did the fuel cutoff switch in the trunk get tripped somehow?

MattwantsSpeed · 07-18-2002, 09:05 PM

not unless the switch turns on and off on it's own. this has happened 3 times and the first 2 times it started the next day. I have NO idea what to do now.

Ieatcamaros · 07-18-2002, 09:55 PM

It sounds like you need to check out the inertia switch. AKA, fuel pump cutoff switch. I highly recommend checking this before going any further. Do you have a hatch or a notch car? If you have a hatch it is located inside the hatch to the left. You will see the hole for it. This hole is so you can hit the reset button after a wreck or after it has been tripped. These things are a PITA!!! I hate them. I have yet to see one that hasn't give someone problems somewhere down the line. To get to the point, it has a white button on top of it. Push it and see if it stays down or retracts or what. Post your results. I drove around in my 87 ranger for 3 years with this POS hotwired. Although it is not recommended, at least you will know if that is the problem. We'll see your results and go from there. BTW, the switch is black with a white button on top to be exact.

MattwantsSpeed · 07-19-2002, 01:42 PM

Well I looked to see if I could find this switch and I couldn't find anything. Is it by the spare tire?? Inside the plastic panels?? I ahve no idea.

Ieatcamaros · 07-19-2002, 04:48 PM

do you have a hatch or a notch? Yes, it is inside the plastic panels at the rear of the car. More on the driver's side.

mikew88gt · 07-19-2002, 08:35 PM

Don't rule out your fuel pump relay if you haven't already changed it. I think it's under your (driver side) seat. If you say you can't hear the fuel pump run when the car won't start it is a good place to start. Same with the inertia switch that was already mentioned. Good luck with it.

DRASTiK · 07-20-2002, 07:14 PM

when it acts up like this and won't start, check to see if you're getting spark. If not, then the pickup inside the distributor might be on the fritze. Like the TFI module, it will get too hot and die, but then work again later.

Ieatcamaros · 07-20-2002, 08:31 PM

I was going to suggest the pick up coil too. But I was waiting until I read what he said about the inertia switch first. Drastik, I agree with you that this could be the problem because when the spark is shut off, then the fuel is automatically shut down. So I was suggesting all the fuel related components one at a time. This way it wouldn't be so hard for him to check everything.

MattwantsSpeed · 07-21-2002, 12:49 AM

Well I finally got time to check the inertia switch, played with it a little bit, pushed it a few times and no difference. What you guys say about the pick-up coil makes sense though. BUT could it be that if the car was at 1300rpm in 4th? 5000rpm in 2nd? AND at idle about to leave a stop sign? I hope it something thing easy. Any way I can test it myself? I don't have too much for tools. I have also changed the TFI Module, Fuel Pump Relay and Fuel Pump so far.

MattwantsSpeed · 07-21-2002, 01:14 AM

We keep forgetting that the fuel pump doesn't prime when I turn the key on. Also can anyone double check with me the way the pump is sopposed to be wired from the sending unit? Someone very nicely sent me a nice picture of it in my last post but I just wanna double check. There is a red (right)and a black(left) wire from the sending unit that are sopposed to connect to the fuel pump, right. Well I have them wired with them crossing over red to the left and black to the right. I'm not sure about the sides, but they are crossed to the otherside. I'm tired, sorry if it doesn't make sense.

Ieatcamaros · 07-21-2002, 10:27 AM

It's been so long since I have looked at one, I couldn't tell ya which wire goes where. Are you sure you have good connections? Loose or dirty ones will hardly work.

I don't know if you can test the pick-up coil or not. I do know that you have to pull the distributor and pull the gear off to change it.

As for the inertia switch, try hotwiring it just to be sure it isn't that. Pull it out and take the electrical connector out of it. Put a paper clip or piece of wire and loop it from one side of the electrical connector to the other. This is done on the wire connecting to the switch, not the switch. Turn the key on, if you don't hear the fuel pump prime, then that is not the problem. You have a firing issue not fuel. And my first suggestion is the pick up coil.

Lethal5Oh · 07-21-2002, 07:31 PM

As far as the wiring on the pump your talking about in the tank on the pump right? If so i would think that the red and black wires should only be able to go on one terminal on the pump. Thats the way it is on my pump. Im not sure if theres that much difference in pump design between 95 and what you have.

MattwantsSpeed · 07-21-2002, 07:47 PM

Well I know the wires fit on right, so I'm guessing it's properly wired. I dunno what to do and don't have much time to get this fixed. I'm going to florida for a week, I think I may give it to someone to fix.

PKRWUD · 07-22-2002, 05:47 AM

Okay, first of all, I am confident that this problem is in the wiring of the fuel pump circuit.

This is what you need to do: With a voltmeter (or in a pinch, a test light), you need to test the wires at the fuel pump relay the next time you turn on the key and the pump doesn't prime.

There should be 5 wires going to 4 terminals at the relay.

With the key OFF, they should test as follows:
Orange/Lt Blue wire = Battery Voltage (whatever the voltage is at the time across the battery terminals)
All other wires = Zero Volts

For 2 seconds following turning the key on, but not starting the engine, the wires should test as follows:
Tan/Lt. Green wire = Zero Volts
All other wires = Battery Voltage

Please check this and post the results.

Take care,
~Chris

Joe50 · 07-22-2002, 12:30 PM

Do you smell fuel when you are cranking the vehicle after it has stalled?

07-18-2002, 01:08 PM	#1
MattwantsSpeed Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lakeland, Fl Posts: 224	Still not starting Well it's not my fuel pump. I wired it the same as the old one and hooked everything back together, fuel lines and electrical connections. What else could it be? I've changed the fuel pump, fuel pump relay and TFI module. The car has just died on me while driving, 3 times in less than 2 weeks. When I turn on the key, you don't hear the fuel pump come on, that was with the old one and the new one. I don't know what to do anymore!!!! I need the car cuz I'm moving to Florida in a couple weeks and I need it to make it there. There is way too much sht going on right now!!!! I need my car!!! __________________ 89 LX Hatch 5.0 5spd, alot of miles, terrible 2.73's, mac cai, pullies, Tri-Ax, 16 timing, elect fan, 3G alt Best to date: 14.331@97.46mph with 14*/stock fan/short belt and a 2.222 60' in 90 degree weather Waiting to put on Off road H and 1 5/8 headers Rice Hater's Club #36

07-18-2002, 01:47 PM	#2
drudis Moderator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Livonia, MI, USA Posts: 1,194	Try hotwiring the fuel pump. Get some wire and go right to the battery... At least you know you got fuel then. It may be the big 40-pin harness. My nephew had this problem. We kep "jiggling" the harnesses, until it made contact and everything worked out. __________________ Darius Rudis, Moderator Corner Carvers Delight 1989 Mustang LX - Open Track Car http://www.dariusrudis.com

07-18-2002, 07:12 PM	#3
Hethj7 Mizzou Tigers Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: weston, MO United States Posts: 1,455	This would be very unlikely, but did the fuel cutoff switch in the trunk get tripped somehow? __________________ 2006 Mustang GT 1990 LX GT-40 motor 262 horsepower, 307ft-lbs (sold but forever loved) 1998 Contour SVT Rice Haters Club Member #244

07-18-2002, 09:05 PM	#4
MattwantsSpeed Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lakeland, Fl Posts: 224	not unless the switch turns on and off on it's own. this has happened 3 times and the first 2 times it started the next day. I have NO idea what to do now. __________________ 89 LX Hatch 5.0 5spd, alot of miles, terrible 2.73's, mac cai, pullies, Tri-Ax, 16* timing, elect fan, 3G alt Best to date: 14.331@97.46mph with 14*/stock fan/short belt and a 2.222 60' in 90 degree weather Waiting to put on Off road H and 1 5/8 headers Rice Hater's Club #36

07-18-2002, 09:55 PM	#5
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	It sounds like you need to check out the inertia switch. AKA, fuel pump cutoff switch. I highly recommend checking this before going any further. Do you have a hatch or a notch car? If you have a hatch it is located inside the hatch to the left. You will see the hole for it. This hole is so you can hit the reset button after a wreck or after it has been tripped. These things are a PITA!!! I hate them. I have yet to see one that hasn't give someone problems somewhere down the line. To get to the point, it has a white button on top of it. Push it and see if it stays down or retracts or what. Post your results. I drove around in my 87 ranger for 3 years with this POS hotwired. Although it is not recommended, at least you will know if that is the problem. We'll see your results and go from there. BTW, the switch is black with a white button on top to be exact. __________________ The sig says it all.

07-19-2002, 01:42 PM	#6
MattwantsSpeed Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lakeland, Fl Posts: 224	Well I looked to see if I could find this switch and I couldn't find anything. Is it by the spare tire?? Inside the plastic panels?? I ahve no idea. __________________ 89 LX Hatch 5.0 5spd, alot of miles, terrible 2.73's, mac cai, pullies, Tri-Ax, 16* timing, elect fan, 3G alt Best to date: 14.331@97.46mph with 14*/stock fan/short belt and a 2.222 60' in 90 degree weather Waiting to put on Off road H and 1 5/8 headers Rice Hater's Club #36

07-19-2002, 04:48 PM	#7
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	do you have a hatch or a notch? Yes, it is inside the plastic panels at the rear of the car. More on the driver's side. __________________ The sig says it all.

07-19-2002, 08:35 PM	#8
mikew88gt Registered Member Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: New York State Posts: 242	Don't rule out your fuel pump relay if you haven't already changed it. I think it's under your (driver side) seat. If you say you can't hear the fuel pump run when the car won't start it is a good place to start. Same with the inertia switch that was already mentioned. Good luck with it.

07-20-2002, 07:14 PM	#9
DRASTiK Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 536	when it acts up like this and won't start, check to see if you're getting spark. If not, then the pickup inside the distributor might be on the fritze. Like the TFI module, it will get too hot and die, but then work again later. __________________ Dave 88 GT - 13.4@106 on street tires (2.2 60ft) My Stang RHC member #75 My stang is FOR SALE!!

07-20-2002, 08:31 PM	#10
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	I was going to suggest the pick up coil too. But I was waiting until I read what he said about the inertia switch first. Drastik, I agree with you that this could be the problem because when the spark is shut off, then the fuel is automatically shut down. So I was suggesting all the fuel related components one at a time. This way it wouldn't be so hard for him to check everything. __________________ The sig says it all.

07-21-2002, 12:49 AM	#11
MattwantsSpeed Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lakeland, Fl Posts: 224	Well I finally got time to check the inertia switch, played with it a little bit, pushed it a few times and no difference. What you guys say about the pick-up coil makes sense though. BUT could it be that if the car was at 1300rpm in 4th? 5000rpm in 2nd? AND at idle about to leave a stop sign? I hope it something thing easy. Any way I can test it myself? I don't have too much for tools. I have also changed the TFI Module, Fuel Pump Relay and Fuel Pump so far. __________________ 89 LX Hatch 5.0 5spd, alot of miles, terrible 2.73's, mac cai, pullies, Tri-Ax, 16* timing, elect fan, 3G alt Best to date: 14.331@97.46mph with 14*/stock fan/short belt and a 2.222 60' in 90 degree weather Waiting to put on Off road H and 1 5/8 headers Rice Hater's Club #36

07-21-2002, 01:14 AM	#12
MattwantsSpeed Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lakeland, Fl Posts: 224	We keep forgetting that the fuel pump doesn't prime when I turn the key on. Also can anyone double check with me the way the pump is sopposed to be wired from the sending unit? Someone very nicely sent me a nice picture of it in my last post but I just wanna double check. There is a red (right)and a black(left) wire from the sending unit that are sopposed to connect to the fuel pump, right. Well I have them wired with them crossing over red to the left and black to the right. I'm not sure about the sides, but they are crossed to the otherside. I'm tired, sorry if it doesn't make sense. __________________ 89 LX Hatch 5.0 5spd, alot of miles, terrible 2.73's, mac cai, pullies, Tri-Ax, 16* timing, elect fan, 3G alt Best to date: 14.331@97.46mph with 14*/stock fan/short belt and a 2.222 60' in 90 degree weather Waiting to put on Off road H and 1 5/8 headers Rice Hater's Club #36

07-21-2002, 10:27 AM	#13
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	It's been so long since I have looked at one, I couldn't tell ya which wire goes where. Are you sure you have good connections? Loose or dirty ones will hardly work. I don't know if you can test the pick-up coil or not. I do know that you have to pull the distributor and pull the gear off to change it. As for the inertia switch, try hotwiring it just to be sure it isn't that. Pull it out and take the electrical connector out of it. Put a paper clip or piece of wire and loop it from one side of the electrical connector to the other. This is done on the wire connecting to the switch, not the switch. Turn the key on, if you don't hear the fuel pump prime, then that is not the problem. You have a firing issue not fuel. And my first suggestion is the pick up coil. __________________ The sig says it all.

07-21-2002, 07:31 PM	#14
Lethal5Oh Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portage Posts: 239	As far as the wiring on the pump your talking about in the tank on the pump right? If so i would think that the red and black wires should only be able to go on one terminal on the pump. Thats the way it is on my pump. Im not sure if theres that much difference in pump design between 95 and what you have. __________________ '95 GT convert. K&N, C&L mass air meter, Performance distributors sreamin demon coil, dyna mod, live wires, king cobra clutch, flowmaster american thunder exhaust, UPR billet adjustable shift handle, Crane Cams Fireball HI-6 box,underdrive pullies, 255lph fuel pump, UPr short throw shifter, caster camber plates, 03 cobra lower A arms, bullit suspension, cobra front brakes

07-21-2002, 07:47 PM	#15
MattwantsSpeed Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lakeland, Fl Posts: 224	Well I know the wires fit on right, so I'm guessing it's properly wired. I dunno what to do and don't have much time to get this fixed. I'm going to florida for a week, I think I may give it to someone to fix. __________________ 89 LX Hatch 5.0 5spd, alot of miles, terrible 2.73's, mac cai, pullies, Tri-Ax, 16* timing, elect fan, 3G alt Best to date: 14.331@97.46mph with 14*/stock fan/short belt and a 2.222 60' in 90 degree weather Waiting to put on Off road H and 1 5/8 headers Rice Hater's Club #36

07-22-2002, 05:47 AM	#16
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Okay, first of all, I am confident that this problem is in the wiring of the fuel pump circuit. This is what you need to do: With a voltmeter (or in a pinch, a test light), you need to test the wires at the fuel pump relay the next time you turn on the key and the pump doesn't prime. There should be 5 wires going to 4 terminals at the relay. With the key OFF, they should test as follows: Orange/Lt Blue wire = Battery Voltage (whatever the voltage is at the time across the battery terminals) All other wires = Zero Volts For 2 seconds following turning the key on, but not starting the engine, the wires should test as follows: Tan/Lt. Green wire = Zero Volts All other wires = Battery Voltage Please check this and post the results. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

07-22-2002, 12:30 PM	#17
Joe50 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Newport News, VA Posts: 78	Do you smell fuel when you are cranking the vehicle after it has stalled? __________________ "Drive it like you stole it!" '94 Vibrant Red GT

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