4 vs 8
 

Hello all. Glad to be back.

I'm going to be saving my money from my summer job and want to buy an LX Mustang. My friend said that the 5.0's aren't faster then the 4 cyl mustangs cause of the wieght differences between the engines.

I don't think this is true but thought I would ask you guys about it. and if it's not true just how fast are these 4cyl lx M ustangs? What do they run when they are stock and how much can they be improved without adding NOS or a turbo. I've never seen a 5.0 run stock so what would they run?

Thanks!

Ford Kid

Gimme a break!
 

The 5.0 HO Mustang V-8 engine runs about 14.5 to 15.0 in the quarter-mile, average.

The 2.3 four-cylinder Mustang runs around 20 seconds in the quarter-mile.

There is no real comparison here and your friend is an idiot for even trying to sell you this drivel.

Don't even bother considering a 2.3 Mustang if you want any performance. They're a dog; meant for good gas mileage and little more. If you want good mileage, buy a motorcycle.

thanks guys I didn't think that the 4cyl could keep up with A 5.0. and yes I love racing so I definatly want A 5.0. do you guys know what the avg price for A 5.0 is I will be looking for one that needs a litle work cause I love working on cars.

thanks
for kid

I raced a 4cyclinder at the track with my v-6 when it was stock. I ran 17 sec 1/4 and I looked in the mirror he was only half way down the track. I was slow and he was that much slower.

maybe he was talking about a SVO mustang with the turbo 4cly.
what did they run in the quarter anyway....was it like high or mid 15

yea what did the SVO stangs run.

and I just found out that my dad isn't going to let me go to the track untill I am 18 (dammit) I don't turn 16 till next month. so I know the 4cyl are much cheaper so I was thinking about getting one of those and do some mods to it and practice with that car untill I am almost 18. reason being if I messup and crash I would rather it be A 4cyl so if it wasn't A SVO (cause theres not alot around here) could I make it run high 14's low 15's with A few mods such as 4.10 gears/ higher pound injectors/ exhaust/ and if I need to get A bigger intake. not sure if the intake is possible to enlarge but I heard it was


thanks for all the help
ford kid

don't mean to rain on your parade but if you just want a 4 cyl why don't you get an Escort or even (dare I say this?) a Honda. I doubt I would have ever even considered a mustang if I wasn't getting a 5.0. Save your money so when you do want a 5.0 you can get a decent one that hasn't been trashed.

yea after thnking about it I thought theres no way I would be happy with A 4cyl. and about the escort or honda I will never buy A foriegn car. so I guess I will just be saving all summer long.


thanks guys
ford kid

I'm not sure what country you live in but I do believe the Ford Escort is domestic here in North America

my bad I am hella stupid. yea ford escort. I will look into it. is there A reason why you sugested the escort.


thanks
ford kid

Practice what?

4 vs 8
 

The 2.3 cylinder Mustangs will always be dogs as not only is the engine built for economy but the Mustang is well over 3,000 pounds, much more than the four cylinder Japanese cars carry.

You can do a few modifications to a 2.3 Mustang or even a Escort with the 1.9 engine but it'll still be slow compared to a V-8. Fact of life. They are economical.

On the other hand, a 5.0 Mustang is a powerful car that I can't imagine a new driver being able to handle with confidence. They can 'get away from you' very easily as a tap on the gas pedal can have you from point A to point B in a few seconds, leaving little room for new-driver mistakes.

The 5.0 also fishtails very easily on any kind of slippery road, including sand or wet. They are almost impossible to drive in snow without weight in the rear, very good snow tires and a light foot on the gas. Even then, not that great.

That said, the 5.0 'Stang is a great car - obviously - but I wanted to point out the possible drawbacks to having it as your first car, ever. Of course, that's between you and your father but just realize that you're talking about driving a car that doesn't forgive driving errors easily.

The brakes are fairly weak and although they handle well, it's no Corvette on sharp turns. Mostly at it's best in straight-line driving, mild cornering and a pretty decent highway cruiser, although not economical, especially around town. You can watch the gas gauge drop when you 'get on it a few times', which you will.

Although an Escort may not be exciting, it might be a better first car to get comfortable with and then move up to a Mustang 5.0 next year.

Just a thought; it's all up to you.

Jeb_Bush_2000 I meant practice my driving/racing skills.


Mr 5 0 thanks that helped me alot. yea my dad is kinda worried about me thanks to my older brother. who has 8 tickets and totaled 3 cars. yea you guessed it he can't drive. so my dad thinks the escort or 2.3L mustang will be best as my first car. so I just got to figure out witch one.


thanks for all your help.
ford kid

In terms of reliability escorts and 2.3L mustangs are about the same and the escort i believe gets better gas mileage. My GT mustang now gets around 17-21 Miles per gallon (increased mileage since i've modified it....if i can hold off on the gas pedal a bit) and i had a 2.3L '91 mustang with 105 horsepower that got 18-21 mpg even with a very light foot, which is hard because those things are SOOOOOOO slow. I'd go with the escort, they feel peppier and they handle ALOT better. The 4 cylinder mustang suspension shares almost nothing in common with the 8 cylinder except for the basic suspension design. They come without a rear sway bar, a puny front sway bar, the 5.0's come with "low friction ball joints" as opposed to whatever the 2.3's come with, the springs are spongy and the car handles like a boat as well as they come with absolutely hideous wheels and smaller brakes than a 5.0L. and also the shocks and struts have crappy valving on the 2.3L's that are supposed to increase "ride comfort" which is guess comfort means floating around at highway speeds.

....that's my long winded rant, i'd go with the escort for now. The 2 door escorts/5 speed get good gas mileage, handle well, brake decent and are pretty reliable. You can also find the Escort GT's which have more power and better suspension. Just my opinion though,
Good luck,

yea I only like the escort gt not the other escorts.

well my dad said that I can get the escort or 2.3L mustang and turn it into A 15 second car. I know that not that fast but what am I going to do. so now my question is witch car is easier to turn into A 15 second car.


thanks
ford kid

Mr. 5.0 is right, a 5.0 is alot to handle for a first car. H*ll my 5.0 was not my first car and when i first got it, it was hard to handle. I would not go with the 5.0 for a first car. The escort GT would be a better choice for a first car. Or possiblely a probe GT. The probe handles fairly well and there not all that slow.

Certainly not on the street, I hope. :D And buying a 4-cylinder to practice drag racing for when you get your V8 is kind of like drinking non-alcoholic beer to "practice" for real beer.



And I agree with RageForces. Danielle is the fourth car I've owned, and even after driving my dad's Cobra on numerous occasions, I still almost looped it a week after I bought it. Hell, six months later, I put it up on a curb coming down an offramp. These cars do not handle in a "friendly" manner at the limit. Stiff springs, thick roll bars, and fat tires make for some high cornering speeds, but they're not designed to handle well at the limit of traction. It's very easy to get into trouble in these cars.


If it's literally going to be the first car you use as a daily driver, you're better off getting something a little more tame. And then, when you do get your 'Stang, you'll be better able to appreciate how quick it is. ;)

ok wait. for the summer I will be driving A 68 vw bug. (it was given to use) so really that will be my first car. and I don't think there is A slower car then that. I mean it only has 50HP.

well I am confused but at least I got till end of summer to think about it.


thanks
ford kid

Probe GT's are another fun car, especially the ones with the V6, those things i think go 15's stock (mid to high 15's i believe is the potential they have stock). ALso the earlier turbo probes cook pretty good, but in terms of replacing any parts it gets expensive because they're basically a mazda MX6 (i think it's built on that platform) and alot of parts are "obsolete" and aren't made in the aftermarket.
I can tell you already that getting a 4 cylinder mustang to go 15's without a turbo is VERY expensive because you have to more than double the power output. the '87 to '90 2.3L's had 88 horsepower and the '91 to '93 had 105 with the redesigned cylinder head, coil packs and dual spark plugs per cylinder (like the rangers had for a couple years before the mustang).
You'd be lucky to get sub 20's in a stickshift, i had a friend with an '89 2.3L and i'd smoke him with my '91 but realistically i'd get humiliated by EVERYTHING else that is driven on the road. I bet the only real match for those cars is like a chevy citation or any 4 cylinder Chrysler K-car.
One car that's made from the same platform and as a result alot of performance parts bolt upto is a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, they come with 4 wheel disc brakes, 5 speed manual, and i believe 170 horsepower but i may be wrong. The suspension is the same as a mustang, mustang seats will bolt right in, strut tower braces, engine, you name it. You could also buy a thunderbird or cougar from '83 to '88 (fox body years) with a 5.0L non HO and hop that up or build an engine for it that you'll eventually put in it. Also insurance would be ALOT less for these vehicles even with 5.0L's in them.
There are alot of cars built off of the "fox" platform that the mustang is built on and as a result there is ALOT of parts interchangability. The sky is the limit as to what you may want in the future.

personally dude..i think you should save yer pennies for the 5.0 ...drive the bug and save money...so long as you trust yerself and can drive responsibly..you may regret sooner then later that you dont have a stang ...a highly modified stang.with gears for example then no i dont recommend it....but especially if you already have it in yer mind and are inclined to speed..my first car was a 5.0 stang..ok condition but the engine was good...granted i got a few tickets i am still paying for but my town is infested with cops...i was forced to drive a 93 probe when i sold it...complete disgrace..like having my face in dog sheet the whole time...anyhow...if you can afford it...get the 5.0...you wont regret it..just my 2 cents

yea I think thats what I will do. I just didn't want to drive the bug for very long but thats ok. so I guess it's time to save and stop bothering you guys.


thanks guys you have helped alot.
ford kid

HERE'S AN IDEA


buy the Mustang with the 4 cyl, and build a 5.0 motor to put in it..


2 years from now you'd have a nice motor to put into the car, pick up a T5 along the way, there you go. you'd also earn the additional pride of knowing that 'You' built it.. and you learned some things along the way...


just my .02

now there is A smart idea I have always wanted to build my own motor. but what ells would I have to change on the 4cyl mustang to drop the 5.0 engine in it. like would I have to swap A stronger rear end. or the front suspension. again A veary good idea.

thanks
ford kid

I did a 302 swap into an 81 4 cyl mustang...


had to change the radiator, and I changed the trans to a C4. everything else was 4 cyl original.. thought i may have to change the oil pan but even that worked.

i think it had a 7.5" rear end, which is what my 84 GT has in it.. and to date not a problem...

depends on what you do with the car when you get it done..



good luck,

and if help is needed, you came to the rite place, these peeps are good..

I dont know??
 

The 4cyl. vs 8cyl. is a good question you being a youngster and all. You need insurance to drive now and i'm pretty sure that a lx 5.0 or a escort gt is gonna be expensive. Here is a idea buy a real nice late 80s early 90s mustang. Then swap in a turbo coupe motor. I know some of the people are laughing right now but these motors have a lot of potencial and might keep your insurance premium down to a decent level. They can make around 400hp with not much more than bone yard parts, on a stock bottom end. Besides nothing upsets a ricer or a 5.0 guy more than being smoked by a 4cyl.... If ya dont believe me go here and do some readin http://www.turboford.org/ :D NorthCoast2.3T

oh forgot
 

My Brother has a 81 Capri 351 windsor T-5, Dart heads and is a fun ride, I like it but I still like to see the underdogs take on the big dogs and win.

wooaaa ok so you guys are saying that if I buy A 4cyl mustang there is several options as to what motor I could drop in it. that would be perfect cause as I have said before my dad doesn't want me to have a car faster then 14 seconds until I am 18. I am liking the idea of buying A 4cyl and then take my time and build my own engine then come my 18 birthday drop the sucker in. and while we are on the subject how much HP can the 7.5 inch rear end handle

thanks
ford kid

About 200hp. :D


If you put anything with balls in there, you're going to need a Trac-loc 8.8". Anything with more balls than a mild 5.0 is going to require some other modifications, primarily to the chassis and suspension.

When I was 16 my 1st vehicle was a beat up old 4banger pickup truck. I drove it around for about 6-8months. I don't know about everyone else but I couldn't drive very well to say the least when I turned 16. I didn't pay much for it and sold it for almost what I paid for it. After that I got an 87 LX 5.0 I think I paid a little under 4000 for it (back in 1995). My dad did not like the idea very much, but my mom being the pushover she is hooked it up. After I got the car the only problem I had between my dad and the mustang was them frequently disappearing together. ;) It was probably was a good idea getting one with an AOD (although I wanted a 5-speed) It kept me somewhat out of trouble although I did come close to biting it a couple times. If I was you I would get a beater to drive around for a little while why you save money, learn to drive, keep out of trouble, and build on your fathers trust. At that point sell the beater and get the V8 mustang. My $.02.

ok I have made up my mind. well my dad kinda did it for me. I am going to drive the bug I have now till I can save up 4 to 5000$ and then start looking around for A 5.0.


thanks
ford kid

Be careful. Bugs are prone to snapping into oversteer. :D

I will agree with Mr. 5.0 I can't imagine driving a Mustang 5.0 when I was 16. Way to irresponsible and have no idea what my actions can cause. Instead of an escort or the 4 banger mustang you might want to look at a Thunderbird. They are rear wheel drive like the mustangs and way slower then the 5.0's even if you buy the 5.0 tbird. However, I would suggest that you buy a 3.8 Tbird or perhaps the 3.8 SC tbird (very rare and used to be my dream car). The tbird is not well behaved in the snow but a lot better then a 5.0 mustang. If you live in an area with no or little snow that might be your answer. If your winters are harsh and lots of snow forget rear wheel drive as your first car. The tbird is a slow moving car because of the massive weight. When I say slow moving I'm talking 17 second 1/4miles not 20 or more that the 4 banger mustang would get you. With the super coupe you might be in the 15's.

Try to get stick if you get anything. It's harder to drive but the younger you are the quicker your shifting will be when you get your 5.0 when your 18 or so (it will be more natrual. One another note. Just the other day I took out my pony on the street (dynoed 325 rwhp) and found some 17-18 year old punks hanging out. They wanted to race me immediately. These guys had some z28's that their foolish parents bought them with superchargers that I can't see so they claimed ;-). Now I say this because they all pulled out on to a 45mph street with lots of traffic and started to make some crazy lane changes all at once. They almost crashed into each other and other traffic like 6 times in the stretch of 2 miles. These kids are pure idiots. I know this doesn't apply to all 18 year olds but whatever car you get the very first thing to learn about it is R E S P E C T. If you learn that you will do just fine. I don't know where I'm going with all this but my vote is tbird as opposed to the 4 banger escort or mustang.

ok now I know your going to think I am an idiot but I am confused between oversteer and understeer so if you could explain that I would appreaciate it.


Piston- I was thinking about that but I just going to drive my bug untill I get anuf money to buy my 5.0 (it will take me at least 6 months but probly more like 8 or 9 months)

thanks
ford kid

No Problem... I'm just remembering my 93 tbird days ohh what fun did I have. Good luck with whatever you get and don't forget the bit about RESPECT for the car.

I think it was Cale Yarborough who said, "[Understeer] is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. [Oversteer] is when you hit it with the back of the car."

Understeer is when the car wants to plow through a turn and not change direction. Oversteer is where the rear-end wants to overtake the front. On the street, that usually leads to fishtailling.


(Note to nitpickers: He actually said "tight" and "loose", which is why I put "understeer" and "oversteer" in brackets. ;) )

I think the beetle to 5.0 idea is a good one. My first car was a Mustang 5.0 (which I still have 2 years later). They definately aren't that great in snow (generous)...I have had a few close calls. Sand is pretty bad too. Rain is not that bad if you don't floor it and you have pretty good tires. I have some suspension stuff, so most people are very surprised about the high level of quality handling.

The only downside to owning a 5.0 is that it becomes EXTREMELY addicting. If you have an income, don't expect to have it long :). There is always something you can do or buy for your car. And you always want to do or buy it!

2.3Ls are garbage. I would rather own...a lot of stuff. But there is nothing in the price range of the 5.0 that has the stock performance, not to mention the unheard of aftermarket potential. I like my car (...maybe too much):).

Thanks,
DoranW

Jeb_Bush_2000 thanks after I posted the qustions about oversteer my dad walked in and I asked him and he used my brother cause he has done it more then once and has gone through A couple of fences.



Piston yea my friend has A tbird and it's A fun car. and you don't have to worry about the respecting of cars I respect every car that my family has and am always offeering to fix them tune them up or wash them what ever needs to be done. basicly cars is my life. and I don't drive like A ******* I mean I have my permit so it's not like I have driven on my own but I don't drive crazy and wont when I get my lisence.


thanks for all your help guys I really appreciate it especially since I am yung and nobody seems to want to help me cause of it.

thanks
ford kid

You say that now, but you'd be surprised how badly you'll drive when you first get your license. :D

Not trying to be a jerk, but please re-read what you write before you actually post. No one is perfect (I know I am not...!), but I have a hard time following some of your posts due to spelling and/or grammar. I wouldn't worry about it too much, but just FYI.

Thanks,
DoranW

I think your plan to drive the bug for a couple years is a good one. I also strongly recommend that you avoid buying an Escort. The reasons are many, but I'm getting tired of typing today, so just trust me on that one.

Another alternative that I think is a good idea would be to buy a cheap 4 cylinder Mustang, don't put ANY unnecessary money into it, and drive it until you either save enough money to buy what you really want, or to build a new V8 to transplant into it. I personally would recommend saving up for a 2nd Mustang, rather than transplanting one. My logic is this: if it's a Mustang that you want to eventually have as your musclecar, starting with a 4 cylinder Mustang would get you used to it. You would become familiar with it, and would transition to a V8 Mustang much more smoothly. You would become familiar with ways and means of obtaining Mustang parts, and would be better informed as to the options and accessories you would want. You also might decide you don't like the Mustang afterall, and wouldn't have dropped a small fortune to discover this. Plus, if you do end up with a fast Mustang later, you will still have a respectable car for chasing down parts, or for times when you would rather get someplace cheaply instead of quickly.

The VW is a great idea, too, but being new to the automotive world, keep in mind that whatever you start out driving will influence your future decisions. After 2 years of driving a bug, you will probably have read dozens of VW magazines, and met new VW friends, and may decide that building a fast bug is what you really want. Going from a bug to a V8 Mustang can have dangerous results, too, as far as driving habits are concerned.

Besides, if you buy a 4 cylinder Mustang first, you can still enjoy all the Mustang t-shirts and books you will end up buying before you turn 18, after you turn 18. Get it?

:)

Take care,
-Chris

well after A long talk with my dad I am not going to get A mustang or any other car. so I am keeping my bug. cause I am into vw bugs. I am subscribed to vw trends so my dad thinks that after I fix my bug up alitle I will want to keep it and use that for drag racing. don't laugh bugs can be veary quick. he also said that if I don't want to keep the bug he will repay me for every thing that I put into it.

PKRWUD do you post over at shoptalkforums.com I think you do but could be wrong.


sorry for wasting your time. after all that I am just keeping my bug but you might see me back here after alitle while.

o and sorry for not checking my spelling.

thanks
ford kid

First Car....
 

Well...I can say alot of things about having a 5.0 as your first car..As that is how it is with me. It was actually my friend who got me into mustangs. He owned an '89 4-banger, red, with a saleen spoiler, and 80k miles on it. Now, it wasn't that bad of a car, little rust here and there, Bando on both doors, and some other places and a crappy hatch. He actually got a deal for $250 for the saleen spoiler and the hatch with glass. Which actually is quite a deal considering the spoiler had the smallest chip in it, oh yeah..it was red and matched his car too..What luck eh? Well that was his first mustang, his dad was the same way about letting him get a 5.0. (He's driving a Conquest TSi now...but wants to get a 5.0 after I let him drive mine...I've brought him back to the dark side :D ). Well anyways, a year after he got his car....at 16..I ended up buying my pride and joy. It was April 5th 2000. I was 17 and was in love with mustangs, with pictures pasted all over my walls. My dad was pretty cool about me getting one. At the time we actually owned a '81 Vette that he let me drive every so often with him in the car. He let me tear it up sometimes, but I never went hard on it or did donuts or anything. I think that's why he was a little more confident about me purchasing a 5.0. (5100$ i paid for mine, with only 95k on it, and perfect condition, not much I can say about perfect anymore). Anyways, I even learned to drive Standard on my car..I had the worst time learning to get moving from a standstill....Stupid left foot. Anyways it was about 2 weeks after I got my car and I was handling it really good, clutch work and all. Now, I had never really screwed around with the car before and decided to when my friend bought his '88 Monte Carlo (stupid 305, always kicked the crap outa him...but now it's got a 400sb...$10k alone into engine work...JEESH!) To make this story shorter, we were in a parking lot eating lunch and decided to race each other. I had my other best friend in the car and Ryan had a friend in his Monte. Now..this is where I learned first hand, why I shouldn't of had a 5.0. Pulling out of the parking lanes, he gave it some gas and kicked the back end out a little on some dirt (he didn't have posi back then..and he had an auto and was shifting it manually) I didn't really think anything of it...and I was in 2nd gear pushing about 1300 rpms. Yeah..I was till sorta learning how to drive..so gimme a break :) Anywho, i gave it about 1/2 throttle when I was turning, and It caught me by suprised. Nothing more then this I was moving sideways with my back end leading towards a light pole. Well I got my back end around, and then I was going sideways the other way with us going about 20 mph straight at this lightpole. I tried my hardest to counter steer which wasn't much use at that time on the dirt. Now that I think about it, i never really took my foot off the gas, I was more scared $hitless about going towards this pole. Anyways..about 6 feet from the pole my rear tires caught on some nice pavement...and it honest to god, with the angle I was going at and the way the wheel was cranked, it broke the front tires loose as well putting us into a 180* spin. We missed the light pole, were facing the other direction, and I stalled it. I was jsut happy that I was still alive. That's how I learned to be careful with what I do, unless I've already done something or driven something so light in the back. Oh yeah...my friend got hit in the forehead with a big rock the car kicked up when we were in the 180* spin. Honest to say, I'm suprised that I wasn't rapped around that light pole. I learned my lesson the scared $hitless way, let's hope you don't have the same experience.

Stick with a low powered engine if it's a mustang and ur first car.

No direction
 

fordkid68:

May I suggest that next time you want to decide on your next car you talk with your dad and think things through a bit more before soliciting responses about Mustangs, especially since you ended up with a VW bug as your car of choice.

We like to help but some folks here may feel a bit used by someone who goes off in another direction entirely after all the posting about wanting a Mustang, 4 vs 8 and so on.

Perhaps this kind of indecision and lack of direction is why some people don't want to bother talking cars with unlicensed 16-year olds who simply have no real idea of what they want and go with whatever the last person they talked to told them. Just a thought.

Enjoy your Volkswagen.

hehehehe..i was thinking the same thing as mr 5 0 ...jus didnt feel like saying it...good luck with the vw

Re: No direction
 

.......a bit harsh, don't ya think.

I ask questions to get the most information on the subject that I can. That's what questions are for, to gain knowlege. I want ALL the opions and as much information on them as possable. Take me for example I've gone from turboing my stock motor, to doing a V-8 swap, to buying a SN95, to doing a v-8 again, to buying another Fox. Sometimes things just don't work out like you'd like and you have to change your plans.

i agree a 5.0 would be a bad first car i had a hyundai as my first car and totalled it at 105 mph on the interstate i can only imagine what would have happened if i had my camaro or a mustang as my first car...i definetly think i would have had trouble handling my camaro (which does handle better than a fox body i might add) very easy to loose the *** end in turns exspecially when wet but once you learn it its easy to hold it and when you loose it its fun if you know what to do...

ok wait I still love mustangs and still want to get one. it was my dad that told me to stay with the bug. it's not like I can tell him "no I am getting A mustang". like I said I was sorry for all the trouble. I have been around mustangs all my life just not the fox body style. my brother has A 66 mustang my brother in law has A 64 1/2 mustang my sister has A 68 and my dad has A 69. it's just my luck that my dad doesn't want me to get one cause of all the **** my brother did when he turned 16 and got his 66 fairlane.

again I am sorry. and I wont return till I get my mustang(belive me I will get one sooner or later)

later guys.
ford kid